tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9361564.post5459443369112426451..comments2024-03-27T01:27:21.576-08:00Comments on The Immoral Minority: Bible scholar writes book pointing out that what you think the Bible says, it not at all what it says. Gryphenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02356503547155430235noreply@blogger.comBlogger65125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9361564.post-38739227052338730692016-03-25T14:08:49.184-08:002016-03-25T14:08:49.184-08:00Anonymous 6:16 AM
Your all-caps F-word insult jus...Anonymous 6:16 AM<br /><br />Your all-caps F-word insult just screams your loving kindness.<br /><br />I've read this blog since 2008. There are atheist commenters who seem like nice, intelligent people, but few of the comments indicate critical thinking about the Bible or about religion in general--or even serious study on the topic. Atheists tend to repeat unexamined assumptions, and to post cliches around common themes. Most have difficulty getting beyond superficial interpretations. E.g., they say religion has caused most of the wars in history. (Wrong--only about 7%-12%, depending on whose historical survey you read and how they attributed some factors.) Yet many atheists take this inflammatory lie as gospel. <br /><br />Look at your statement about evolution. Catholics have taught it in their schools for decades. More than half the 2 billion+ Christians on earth are Catholic.<br /><br />Jesuit priest/paleontologist/cosmologist Teilhard de Chardin proposed the famous Omega Point theory of evolution; also look up his work on Peking Man. Dr. Martin Nowak is a professor of math, biology, and evolution at Harvard--and a devout Roman Catholic. Can you guess what Dr. James Hannam wrote about in the "Genesis of Science?" There are many such religious scientists, but I intuit you prefer "facts" that support your prejudices.<br /><br />No atheists here have remarked on the fact that the Bible scholar featured in Gryphen's post is a Jew who believes in God. I pointed it out, but some people seized on the post as if it supported their atheist biases. This is not a sign of superior critical thinking.<br /><br />Gryphen himself quote-mined a text from Luke just a few days ago, from the parable of the 10 gold coins (minas.) He attributed to Jesus violent words which Jesus was quoting from a wealthy nobleman (probably a son of Herod) who commanded the slaying of those who wouldn't follow him. The nobleman himself was probably using hyperbole to make a point. Bible scholars know that the ancient Hebrews often expressed themselves in dramatic hyperbolic language. I've never seen evidence that a single atheist on this site understands the use of such figurative devices in scripture. Most of them seem unaware that some of the harshest verses in the Bible are from rules that apply only to the Levitical priesthood.<br /><br />The term "fundamentalist atheist," which so shocked Richard Dawkins, came about because most atheist arguments against Christianity come from the same limited, literal perspective used by fundamentalist Christians to argue in favor of it. <br /><br />Best advice for anyone who is unwilling to dig deep into what well-trained scholars know about the Bible, and who holds their own prejudices as unshakeable, should probably not comment on it at all. It just spreads more misunderstanding.<br /><br /><br /><br />Judenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9361564.post-57700211815555301122016-03-25T12:46:02.390-08:002016-03-25T12:46:02.390-08:00Jkarov,
You repeat a falsehood that goes unchallen...Jkarov,<br />You repeat a falsehood that goes unchallenged all over the internet.<br /><br />Historians Phillips and Axelrod published their "Encyclopedia of Wars" a few years ago. Of the almost-1800 wars documented in history, fewer than 7% involved religious causes.<br /><br />Most wars are fought over territory, resources, social and economic inequality, conflicting political ideologies, in revolt against corrupt and repressive government regimes, and motives such as revenge and a lust for power.Judenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9361564.post-10677928265393835512016-03-25T12:25:10.215-08:002016-03-25T12:25:10.215-08:00Buddhism as it's practiced in most Asian count...Buddhism as it's practiced in most Asian countries bears little semblance to the understanding most people in the West have of the religion. (And do not tell Buddhists in Korea or Japan, where I lived for years, that it isn't a religion!)<br /><br />The Bible and the Buddha both tell us that life is suffering. Both support the ancient Golden Rule, and also make the point that we often cause suffering to others in an effort to minimize our own suffering. <br /><br />The Buddhist recommendation to avoid attachment in order to prevent suffering is too difficult to put into practice for most people. The Bible is more practical in that regard.<br /><br />None of the texts you reference advocate condescension and insults directed at others. What satisfaction do you derive from that? Judenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9361564.post-85610004497711140192016-03-24T15:34:45.191-08:002016-03-24T15:34:45.191-08:00Are you dense or just a pervert? What parent asks ...Are you dense or just a pervert? What parent asks their child questions about their sex life before or after they're married? (unless, of course, they have been informed of other students being exposed to pedophiles in their schools, neighborhoods, churches, etc.). <br />If you prefer crew necks over turtle necks because of your religious beliefs, that's fine with me. We chose to leave the decision to mutilate or not up to him when he became an adult, It's like the pro-life/ anti abortion debate. Anita Winecoolernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9361564.post-71989414800101321692016-03-24T07:11:55.920-08:002016-03-24T07:11:55.920-08:00"....Narcisitic...." Is that like a nar..."....Narcisitic...." Is that like a narcissistic parasite?(grin)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9361564.post-593229942277156572016-03-24T07:09:30.032-08:002016-03-24T07:09:30.032-08:00Along with Buddhist texts one could enjoy, don'...Along with Buddhist texts one could enjoy, don't forget the Tao te Ching! I carry a little copy in my purse and it's as beat-up looking as a babptist's buybull.<br />I love to read thru it while waiting in line. It's a great boredom preventer for me. Confuses the hell out of the christian rubes around here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9361564.post-26587317241510890712016-03-24T06:19:23.545-08:002016-03-24T06:19:23.545-08:00Wonder why "Thou shalt not Rape" was not...Wonder why "Thou shalt not Rape" was not considered?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9361564.post-24942231927857018382016-03-24T06:16:45.907-08:002016-03-24T06:16:45.907-08:00Dear Tn xtian:
You can keep your passive-aggressiv...Dear Tn xtian:<br />You can keep your passive-aggressive narcisitic badge of a prayer for anyone's well-being to yourself. <br />I have a scientific understanding of evolution, nature, biology, etc. and my heart was filled with loving kindness by MY desire to to good to and for others with no need for a reward or to avoid some huge cosmic spanking by your rage-filled blood thirsty skygod.<br />You can give no examples of biblical ignorance of IM'ers because atheists know your stupid bible better than YOU or any of your ilk do. Atheists overall tend to not be afraid of critical thinking, or of poking sacred cows in the eye. <br />Here's my prayer for you:<br />GO FUCK YOURSELF<br />And my prayer to uncle G: Please publish this comment. I detest tn xtian's condescension. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9361564.post-31658477392846910182016-03-24T05:50:42.161-08:002016-03-24T05:50:42.161-08:00Tried to respond earlier, Leland, but my Nook died...Tried to respond earlier, Leland, but my Nook died. I struggle with faith. It's called "dark night of the soul," or Accedia, the noonday demon. <br /><br />My existential curiosity keeps me searching. My lazy agnostic years are long gone. RC now, and satisfied.<br /><br />My spiritual director is a practicing psychiatrist, Benedictine nun, and feminist. Odds are she could teach most people plenty. G says the oddest things.<br /> <br />Bland moral advice has small impact. The Bible has lurid melodrama for emphasis, and unexpected outcomes to make us question our assumptions about how "good" we are and about our best-laid plans. God even reads some of the villainous lines. The overarching themes are missed by people who take the Bible at face value. It's a challenging and unending study, but more than worth it to many millions of us. <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> <br /><br /><br /><br />Judenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9361564.post-85899635710418554562016-03-24T00:10:42.247-08:002016-03-24T00:10:42.247-08:00And I'll bet they then say "Oh, that'...And I'll bet they then say "Oh, that's the New Testament. We only follow the teachings of PAUL."mlaiuppahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13792165896828163411noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9361564.post-14148633210803612102016-03-24T00:04:35.013-08:002016-03-24T00:04:35.013-08:00Not only that, but those that "collected"...Not only that, but those that "collected" those stories had agendas that determined who got in and who was left out. There are many more books than are in the bible. <br /><br />There are also imposters or "forgeries" in the bible. It's speculated that 50% of "Paul's" writings are forgeries, written by others claiming to be Paul or that have simply be assigned to Paul. (Personally, he was never a disciple and never met Jesus so all of his crap should be tossed out first thing. Misogynist asshole. )mlaiuppahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13792165896828163411noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9361564.post-80981619389946939892016-03-23T23:57:45.310-08:002016-03-23T23:57:45.310-08:00Also that they aren't the Ten Commandments but...Also that they aren't the Ten Commandments but more like the Ten Statements or the Ten Suggestions. <br /><br />And it isn't Thou Shalt Not Kill. It is Thou Shalt Not MURDER. <br /><br />Don't know if that made the top 40 but I know there is a book on translation out there that specifically mentions this "statement". mlaiuppahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13792165896828163411noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9361564.post-63177730670332160922016-03-23T20:12:31.471-08:002016-03-23T20:12:31.471-08:00Bet your son has never gotten many bjs Anita. Bet your son has never gotten many bjs Anita. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9361564.post-91228796674016507692016-03-23T18:15:43.274-08:002016-03-23T18:15:43.274-08:00Thanks for the link and the information, Gryph. We...Thanks for the link and the information, Gryph. We're at the "empty nest" stage, our two daughters married Christians and our son married an agnostic, all three in civil ceremonies. The topic of religion rarely comes up when the "new extended" family gets together, but when it does, the items addressed by this book are taken as (forgive the pun) Gospel Truth. <br />I know the Bible was written after many years of passing these stories down from generation to generation, then add the translations from translations and human error, and that's how these things happen. My father used to joke that they rushed the book to the press because someone invented the gutenburg printing press, and they had debt$ to pay. Anita Winecoolernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9361564.post-66173320801595331642016-03-23T18:07:12.269-08:002016-03-23T18:07:12.269-08:00I'm sorry, Jude, but I simply cannot understan...I'm sorry, Jude, but I simply cannot understand how anyone can revere a supposed god who orders such death and destruction on infants and innocent peoples. I cannot understand how someone can revere a supposed god who orders a man to sacrifice his own son - AS A TEST! Even if he did stop it before the deed was done, it was just plain CRUEL! It was a vicious, cruel thing to do.<br /><br />I agree that in and of itself, the bible isn't evil. What it represents, IS.<br /><br />As one who began wholeheartedly believing in a god, and having that god ignore the pleadings of his children - especially the LITTLE ones! - just shouts of non-existence.<br /><br />AND, if he DID actually create this place - just for the sake of argument, you understand - why did he create the viciousness surrounding us. Why create insects that lay eggs in infant's eyes. What the hell have they ever done to deserve blindness by that? <br /><br />Sorry, but you enjoy it. I used to. And along with the Qu'ran and the Torah and the Talmud and as much else as I could get. Now it's just a waste of my time. Why waste the time reading about something that claims to know it all when it doesn't exist?Lelandnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9361564.post-72208622524553154582016-03-23T17:57:56.646-08:002016-03-23T17:57:56.646-08:00We chose not to have our son circumcised, and ther...We chose not to have our son circumcised, and there's nothing GROSS about it. It was done because the people were nomads in an arid environment, which meant baths were few and far between. Vaginas, Penises and Underarms don't fare well when "ripe", but with the advent of soap, indoor plumbing, the ritualistic mutilation of boys, essentially cutting away millions of nerve endings that are there for a purpose, became obsolete. The human body, in it's natural state is a thing of beauty. <br />Last I checked, people fall in love with the whole person, not just a sex organ. Anita Winecoolernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9361564.post-19277722521809167142016-03-23T17:50:57.991-08:002016-03-23T17:50:57.991-08:00Thanks, Jude. I appreciate your opinion of my comm...Thanks, Jude. I appreciate your opinion of my comments.<br /><br />However, in my experience, usually the only people who have that kind of question applied to them are those who seemingly live by the OT. You know, the fundies? Those who live by the teachings of jesus rarely - at least in my 67 years of experience - have that question put to them. It just isn't deemed necessary. Again, in my experience.<br /><br />Cruz is an excellent example of someone who lives by the OT. He admits he beats his children. Proverbs. You know, "to spare the rod..."? AND, he wants to impose HIS ideas and "principals" on the rest of us. A true follower of jesus and the NT wouldn't normally do that.<br /><br />That is the kind of person who has that question asked, not those who quietly live by the teachings of jesus. Those are the type of people I, personally, DON'T call christian, even though they themselves do.Lelandnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9361564.post-57874542664195074362016-03-23T17:35:50.067-08:002016-03-23T17:35:50.067-08:002:40, you didn't find his attack on Gryphen...2:40, you didn't find his attack on Gryphen's character a slap? The last I heard, being called a "know it all" was an insult and a challenge to one's intelligence. I merely stated a counter argument to his insulting remark.<br /><br />And just so you know, my reply was aimed STRICTLY at 11:08, NOT 7:03. Or did you not catch that at the top of my opening?cantankerous old goathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12773372044175781052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9361564.post-73560316040978200812016-03-23T15:28:27.005-08:002016-03-23T15:28:27.005-08:00Quote from Joel Hoffman's blog post on Fiddler...Quote from Joel Hoffman's blog post on Fiddler on the Roof, as he reflects on its relationship to the history of his own Jewish people: <br /><br />So it was a treat to look back a few chapters and revisit my place in an ever-unfolding adventure that, I am still convinced, is graced by light and joy and happiness and honor and God.<br /><br />I note this for people who won't read the Hoffmans' (Joel and Lawrence) excellent books, and for those who have seized on Gryphen's post as fodder to support their belief that the Bible is useless or worse.Judenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9361564.post-78315403212983378762016-03-23T15:15:45.956-08:002016-03-23T15:15:45.956-08:00"liberal Catholic" is an oxymoron."liberal Catholic" is an oxymoron.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9361564.post-78004799944390804472016-03-23T15:14:10.652-08:002016-03-23T15:14:10.652-08:00Buddhist texts are an excellent antidote.Buddhist texts are an excellent antidote.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9361564.post-42347980778307914112016-03-23T15:03:04.404-08:002016-03-23T15:03:04.404-08:00Leland, please. I respect your opinion most of the...Leland, please. I respect your opinion most of the time, but do not set yourself up as the arbiter of what "most" Christians think or do. Broad-brush statements are the currency of bigots, and I don't think you belong in that camp.Judenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9361564.post-31358275867053782762016-03-23T14:56:43.641-08:002016-03-23T14:56:43.641-08:00Hoffman is one of the best Biblical scholars. Athe...Hoffman is one of the best Biblical scholars. Atheists, he is not one of you, but you should read him in spite of--or because of--that fact.<br />The Bible is not evil. I'm sorry for all who have been hurt by zealots who twisted scripture to support their own propensity for wrong-doing. The US Constitution, an infinitely simpler document written in English, has also been used in the service of wrong--a crude but apt analogy.<br /><br />My path in life, now in my seventh decade, has taken me from lukewarm Presbyterian to complacent Unitarian agnostic to liberal Catholic. I have benefitted from the expert scholarship of Benedictines, then Jesuits, and my own voracious reading and endless questioning. If I live long enough, I may convert to Judaism.<br /><br />My personal favorites by Hoffman are his Jewish prayer books. You need not be Jewish to appreciate them. His "Welcoming the Night" is my favorite. For over 11 years my brave, brilliant husband has been dying from Agent Orange-related illnesses. As his dementia has turned him into an unrecognizable stranger with unassuagable paranoid delusions most nights, I find wisdom and strength in Hoffman's sensitive translations. I think no one understands and comes to terms with suffering as well as the Jews.<br /><br />Happy reading to all Who can find it in their minds to be open to ideas that some may find radical.<br /><br />Pax and bonumJudenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9361564.post-88944819254507847542016-03-23T14:40:26.578-08:002016-03-23T14:40:26.578-08:00Leland, how about the last sentence of 7:03 AM'...Leland, how about the last sentence of 7:03 AM's post? Also, what is so hateful or ignorant about 11:08 AM's post? You get so butthurt over the dumbest things. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9361564.post-72921746388089793712016-03-23T14:23:53.997-08:002016-03-23T14:23:53.997-08:00http://www.amazon.com/Bible-Doesnt-That-Mistransla...http://www.amazon.com/Bible-Doesnt-That-Mistranslations-Misunderstandings/dp/1250059488/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com