According to the May 30, 2005 Bradbury memo, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was waterboarded 183 times in March 2003 and Abu Zubaydah was waterboarded 83 times in August 2002.
I am absolutely stunned by this revelation.
I knew we had used torture on these "enemy combatants", but this is so extreme that it seems pathologically sadistic. This is not interrogation, this is punishment! The mind set that allowed this to happen was one of "you hurt us and now we are going to punish you for it".
That is not justice. That is the same mindset that allows the worst dictators in the world to punish everybody who dares to disagree with them.
And how can we possibly trust ANY information that we attained using these techniques? I don't know about you but after 183 times I would confess that I assassinated John F. Kennedy, and I was only three years old at the time.
I am so ashamed of my country over this that it hurts my heart.
We must punish the people that did this! The Obama administration simply cannot let this slide!
I am sorry but if we do not send a message to the world that America is against this type of behavior, and that those who engage in it are punished, than we simply cannot hope to earn back the trust of the rest of world.
Or for that matter the trust of our own citizens.
I read that this morning too. It makes me sick.
ReplyDeleteI have been following this story, too.. and as much as I am an "Obamanite" this is one area that I shake my head
ReplyDeleteI believe his official statement said those that "did" the acts would not be charged..
that leaves room for who I think should be charged.. those that OKed it.
The big wigs fat and happy in D.C. that gave approval
The men/women overseas that performed these acts ..as wrong as they were.. were following orders, in highly stressful situations.. the war does stuff to ones mind.
The true Guilty ones are the ones that gave the approval. Hang 'em high
HOPING.. with that statement leaving room .. that we hear something more on this
To turn the other way .. that just sits very poorly with me
Without admonishing this by putting on trial those who were responsible for this abomination we are in a sense justifying it..opening the door for it to happen again. I cannot believe that my grandchildren will look back on this in our history and ask why we didn't do something about this..wonder how we stood by. I remember asking my grandparents what their thoughts were during the Holocaust. They said that while the atrocities were happening they didn't realize it. They didn't know...I was shocked...but look at me now...Rwanda..torture..
ReplyDeleteThank you for maintaining a blog/a voice to continue to bring these issues to light.
Thanks for the great topic. I've read most of the memos. I contacted my representative and requested that Congress begin impeachment proceedings against Jay Bybee. As a Federal Judge in the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, he is subject to Congressional Impeachment if needed. He is an atrocity (among the others).
ReplyDeleteAnd where is "Ghul" - oops they forgot to redact his name. Where is the person that the troglodytes "disappeared" in MY name?
Repulsive.
Disgusting.
Humiliating.
Where is Nuremberg - we need a good old fashioned and honest Trial for Crimes Against Humanity.
My God, that's 6 times a day!
ReplyDeleteA War Crimes tribunal should be the result of revelations like this. Humiliation is one thing; extreme torture is quite another.
This puts our 2001-2008 government -- all 3 branches, plus the military -- in the same section in the history book as the worst despots in Africa, Serbo-Croatia, and Southeast Asia.
It is a horror and we must face it, as a nation.
ReplyDeleteAnd how many times did we torture him in the month before and the month after? How many other people did we subject to this slow death (and make no mistake, waterboarding kills brain cells and plays havoc with the body's hormonal system)? What about the CHILDREN we tormented with insects? It's sadism, pure and simple. They say you can judge a society by the way it treats its enemies; well, we're a bunch of sadistic bullies.
ReplyDeleteAnd I don't buy the "just following orders" line. So they disobeyed and--what? They were lined up against a wall and shot? Hardly. Yet we executed German soldiers who'd had the choice of following orders, or dying. The kind of men who can do this are a threat to society. They should be locked up not simply to punish them, and as a warning others, and to reassure the world that we do not consider ourselves above the law, but because they are dangerous.
Shameful. Beyond shameful. Everyone who signed off on these memos should be hauled before a court. I am so sorrowful for our country.
ReplyDeleteWhy should an American be stunned? Didn't everyone know that waterboarding was being carried out whenever they felt that it served a purpose?
ReplyDeleteNow take the next step and ask yourselves what other torture was and is being practiced on the preceived enemy. And not specifically you Gryphen, but others, do you care?
Anne S wrote: The men/women overseas that performed these acts ..as wrong as they were.. were following orders, in highly stressful situations.. the war does stuff to ones mind.No, sorry Anne S, you just blew it. You support torture because you defend those who performed the torture. And in fact Anne S, it's illegal to follow illegal orders.
ReplyDeletethey should have just made him listen to Palin's speeches
ReplyDelete183 times in one month... That is more than SIX TIMES/DAY - or about once every 3-4 hours. Who knows for how long...
ReplyDeleteI am an absolute Obama follower - but I believe he HAS TO investigate/prosecute this, and DO IT NOW - not in a year or two or three, before his re-election. This has to be stopped once and for all, and the people who ordered this have to be paraded about the world, and have to be put on trial in Den Hague, NOT the US. There are still way too many judicial officers in cahoots with our former regime, who will be more than willing to let those former officials off the hook.
So: Collect all the evidence, then arrest all those higher-ups who authorized/sanctioned the torture, and deliver them to Den Hague for an international trial. (Maybe, before delivering them, let them have a 'taste' of what they authorized (and NOT the watered-down version, but the full-blown Guantanamo version!)
Doing the math, that's approximately 6 times a day, every day for the month of March. About once every 3 waking hours.
ReplyDeleteThat isn't "interrogation". That's punishment.
I say "Go Spain!!"
ReplyDeleteIf our country won't take care of punishing our own war criminals, then let the world do it!!
And I LOVE that Mr. Obama is our president, but I was so hoping that he would make sure of taking down our war criminals so this sort of thing never happens again. The Bush administration acted horribly. If that man (Khalid Sheikh Mohommed) was not already insane before the repeated waterboarding, he surely was afterwards.
Yes,we can say Americans DO NOT TORTURE but we do NOT get to make up our own special rules!! If the Geneva Conventions are to mean anything to other countries, then WE have to follow them too.
Oh, and IF some claim (not correctly) that we are a "Christian" country, have they not forgotten the big basic creed: Treat others as you would have them treat you? Be good to your enemies? Which one of these people acted as neighbor? Father forgive them for they know not what they do? By your actions will you be known, and all that....yadda yadda. Compassionate conservatism my eye. Bush just said that to get Dem's votes. (And when that didn't work, they purged the voting rolls and rigged the machines.)
I'm gonna cut Barack Obama some slack. He is still only three months into his term.
I'm gonna PRAY though, that this administration acts on this.
What is the goal here?? For the U.S. to make Communist China's human rights violations to look good?
ReplyDeleteThis is total bullshit. the henchmen who carried out the orders are OK... but Obama had previously stated he would not waste time prosecuting Bush.
They ALL need to be prosecuted. This time-- start from the top & yes include the judge who gave it the stamp of approval as well.
He apparently failed to either read or understand the constitution!
Everyone that committed these stupid acts should be in prison or at bare minimum should be court marshaled, starting with Dick Cheney.
ReplyDeleteIf President Obama refuses to seek justice for these insane acts, he should be voted out of office in 2012.
I believe he is doing a awesome job of restoring our badly tarnished image accross the world so far.
I hope to God he does not stop short by attempting to sweep this torture issue under the rug.
I will take a bullet between the eyes any day over condoning my country being torturers.
I believe there is a "method to the madness," Gryphen. Otherwise, no need to release the memos.
ReplyDeleteThe public outcry will put our President "above the fray," and give Congress "no choice" but to prosecute. I advise all to read this thread, including comments and see if you agree:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5485025
There is no excuse for performing torture. Whether you authorize it, order it, or actually do it. All should be prosecuted. If the US won't do it, then the US needs to get signed up to the International Criminal Court, and let them do it. Signatory status is not enough. Get the ratifying legislation in place.
ReplyDeleteThat dude must have had the cleanest hair at the end of that month.
ReplyDelete