Public Policy Polling, a liberal pollster, had an interesting idea recently: The firm broke down a national presidential survey it did, separating out the Birthers among the respondents in order to see who their preferred candidate was. The result, if you've been following the Birthers' rhetoric for a while, wasn't too surprising: Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin was the most popular politician of the four that PPP asked about.
63% of all Americans with a favorable opinion of Sarah Palin are birthers. Same thing with 53% of those who like Gingrich, 50% who view Huckabee positively, and 44% for Romney.
Remember when W. said 'some people call you the elites, I call you my base?' Swap out birthers for elites and you've got the makings of a great Palin speech.
― Alex Koppelman
It sounds like a marriage made in hell doesn't it?
So the people who support Palin are the same ones who believe that the President was born in Kenya, that the plan for health care reform includes slaughterhouses for the elderly, and have no problem believing that the earth is only six thousand years old.
Not exactly a lot of Mensa members in that group are there?
O, irony! The one woman who can't produce a birth certificate - or an even remotely believable birth story - for her own alleged child leads the movement of wing-nuts screaming for the president's birth certificate.
ReplyDeleteI would imagine further polling would reveal her followers also think that the earth is flat and professional wrestling is real.
Beam me up. Please....
it must make someone awfully proud to be the leader of the stupidest people in the country.
ReplyDeleteGryphen, I completely agree with you. I think it's clear from the shrieking, nonsensical pro-Palin comments on this very blog that her supporters are not MENSA members; most of them did not even go to college.
ReplyDeleteSad, but true. "On what planet do you spend most of your time?" Barney Frank nailed it. I really like how he doesn't talk to these fools "uncharacteristically nicely". I really enjoyed how she looked after that retort. She was like a deer caught in the headlights. She didn't expect that, and no one told her what to think.
ReplyDeleteHey - uh - I agree that Palin's supporters are misguided, but do we really want to be criticizing people who "didn't even go to college?" Kinda makes it easy to call us Obama supporters elitists.
ReplyDeleteBirthers = anti-Obama extremists = Sarah supporters (because for some reason they believe Sarah can unseat Obama)
ReplyDeleteSarah can't even string a coherent sentence together, so I cannot imagine how the anti-Obama freaks think she can challenge the President on any level above trash-talking and name-calling.
Anon 9:21... College? I honestly think most didn't finis high school and who knows about grade school. Just think about todays kids in Texas where the bible is now a must teach part of the curriculum! My kids would not be in public schools and that is sad! I believe in public schools and education.
ReplyDeleteIt's been obvious all along how stupid and uninformed Palins supporters are. They watch Fox only-that says it all. It is shameful that America, has so many stupid residents. They aren't very patriotic either, the way they tratvou president. I'd like to know what % are tied to Dominionism and/or to white extremist groups.
Rationalist you are right in that many who did not go to college are informed and bright! I agree with you there. But these people seem uneducated and/or misinformed and don't seem to value education. That is the frustrating part.
ReplyDelete"...her supporters are not MENSA members; most of them did not even go to college."
ReplyDeleteGoing to college isn't a "pass Go" ticket...after all, Sarah Palin herself attended college (obviously didn't learn anything). And a fair number of the wingnut SP followers over at See4Pee are surely college educated, despite their sad grasp of common sense, logic, or English as a first language.
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As for Sarah Palin herself, how long are her handlers going to keep her sequestered out of the public eye, with only ghost-written Republican talking points (=lies) appearing under her name on a free social network page?
And how long is that social network going to allow this head-faking ghostwriting under her name to continue before pulling the plug?
At the very least the Palin Mafia is misusing Facebook services; at the most they should be forced to pay for a blog set-up under their own domain name.
Yeah, become a BLOGGER!
What would it take to encourage Facebook to investigate the Palin travesty?
Sorry, folks on this thread bristling at "college" as a sign of educational achievement, but I firmly disagree with you.
ReplyDeleteI don't see college as "an elitist goal." Maybe it's because I went to a state college on a scholarship; I was born into a poor family, and yet I was able to find my way. I think it should be every American child's right to go to college. I see college as a populist right--not elitist.
Here's my take on the Death Panel, Birthers and and other absurd rhetoric coming from the far right. It has nothing to do with health care. It has nothing to do Obama's citizenship; he was vetted a long time ago. It has everything to do with hating Obama. It may be racial. It may be that they just hate liberals or Democrats. I'm going with racial, plus the incoherent kind of hatred that followed Bill Clinton from the moment he took office. Many in the GOP are sore losers, just like Sarah Palin.
ReplyDeleteThis is my evidence. The other day, smiling Tom DeLay was a guest on Chris Matthew's Hardball, and tried to revive that dead story about not seeing proof that Obama was born in Hawaii. By mistake, he called the proof a "gift certificate." He is just spouting talking points, and took them as seriously as getting birth certificate and gift certificate mixed up. Tom kept smiling and laughing, meaning, he said the required talking points. Someone is keeping score back at GOP headquarters, and Tom got half credit for saying "certificate," he just said the wrong kind of certificate.
When in the hell is the bomb gonna drop on the "birth" of Trig ??
ReplyDelete@11:14 a.m., Tom DeLay can go dance away with the stars, which is where Sarah Palin is headed, too.
ReplyDeleteI am so glad the only place to find buttercup today is in the Globe!!
ReplyDeleteBet she's hangin with Elvis and Batboy! Bet they would have a kickin time to.
Gryphen: Dennis Zaki & Alaska Report have a very interesting story written by K.C.Dochtermann. When he filed a complaint, he asked for protection under the whistleblower act, and appears not to have received it. Now, he is requesting an investigation of the former officials who failed to protect his identity, and he has suffered as a result of their actions. Former Alaska officials: Ex-Governor Palin and ex-attorney general Colberg. The investigations regarding Sarah Palin's poor performance in office should continue; she was a disaster for her state! Please give this story much more detail than I can put in a brief post. How did she manage to fool so many people???
ReplyDeleteSubstitute "birther" with "racist" and you have told the complete story.
ReplyDeletePPP also did a couple of follow up posts on this. In the first, a correlation "non-birther" (sane wing of the GOP) with support for various candidates. $P did not finish first. In the second, the blogger shared some of the highly amusing but also disturbing e-mails he received from pee-ers.
ReplyDeleteYes, having gone to college is not elitist. Criticizing people who haven't is.
ReplyDeleteNo, Rationalist, I totally disagree. Having people make you think that education isn't a populist notion is wrong. The anti-intellectualism in this country is sad, and that's why we have people like Palin's followers.
ReplyDeleteI do criticize folks who choose not to go to college. They are anti-education, and pro-ignorance. I came from a poor mixed race American childhood in a red state, and if I can get college degrees, anyone can. It is a choice. All Americans should be EDUCATED.
There is a 70 year old acquaintance of mine, who started sending me ridiculous emails - the Glenn Beck tribe -- Interestingly, I have been responding tactfully, and this guy is listening. He often apologizes for being "bothersome" - but appreciates my insights, information, and links I send him. We are having the birther, nazi, and healthcare discussions, and I think he is swinging over to be more rational. The American Medical Association website is good for explaining healthcare reform (and AARP) for the older folks who are Fox customers.
ReplyDeleteThe GOP likes its "base" to remain barefoot, ignorant, and racist. They are easier to manipulate that way. Corporate America approves.
ReplyDeleteThe GOP has 0 solutions, 0 remedies. Sarah Palin is another of their big zeros.
Slightly OT, but not really -- still discussing wingnuts -- I just got a non-requested solicition mailing from, of all organizations, the Heritage Foundation, in the mail yesterday (I just picked it up today).
ReplyDeleteIn it, there's a form letter from SEAN HANNITY telling me how Washington is "wholly controlled by liberals" (yeah, I can see that...NOT) and how the Heritage Foundation is the kind of representation conservatives should back.
I can become a Basic Member for a mere $25, or I can contribute more "if I like".
On the self-addressed "no postage necessary" envelope there's a message that says, "Your stamp will help us save much needed funds".
I'm sending back the envelope, empty, without a stamp.
Anyone else get this mailing? Do what I did, send the empty envelope back to them.
Anonymous at 2:32
ReplyDeleteI understand the point you are trying to make. But people do not attend college for a variety of reasons. You are using a rather broad brush when you paint people who don't attend college as pro-ignorant and anti-education.
Ironically, I am from a family where the members with the master's degrees love Sarah Palin and the GOP. They consider the dems and Obama as godless. Here's the really scarey part: they are all teachers.
Anonymous at 2:32 - I do not criticize people who do not go to college, as long as they have a goal and a plan for improving their lives. If someone's goal is to be a plumber, there is nothing wrong with that, and attending college would not further him towards that goal.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of questions of birth...
ReplyDeleteWhy hasn't SP sued the website (Morgan's) devoted to proving that Trig is not her son?
That should be an easy one, right?
Based on the lawsuit VanSomething-or-other threatened Gryphen with, we have to conclude that she or "her people" read this site.
So, (to Palin), why not sue THOSE folks at Palindeception. Huh?
Anon. at 2:32 pm:
ReplyDelete"I do criticize folks who choose not to go to college. They are anti-education, and pro-ignorance. I came from a poor mixed race American childhood in a red state, and if I can get college degrees, anyone can. It is a choice. All Americans should be EDUCATED."
This statement has got to be a Palin plant to brand all her opponents as Elitists/not 'Real' Americans.
If not,I shudder to think of the alternative. Sorry, bimbo or bubba, but some folks actually have brains and natural talent. Some folks choose to live in a area where they do not want access to college-perhaps even online. Some Americans choose to employ themselves in occupations which do not require a college degree. Some Americans make a fine living without college classes and have pursued their happiness in doing so. Jeez, some might even be Mensa qualified.
How arrogant of you to assume those who grew up 'poor', red state residents, members of minorities are just biting at the bit to pursue that golden ticket to American riches-a degree.
From: Alaskan,Native and bi-racial blended family, subsistence aka "poor" in bucks,education from the wilderness dwellers who are not anti-education Palin proponents or brainless Birthers.
Coulda,not woulda,or shoulda...gotten a degree...to line our outhouse with or started a woodstove fire in our cabin. Celebrate diversity.
Shudder all you'd like to , folks. I am Anon 2:32. I am a First Nations member. I do celebrate diversity; I am more "racially diverse" than most of the posters on this blog. You cannot brand me as "elitist" because I think you should be more educated!
ReplyDeleteWe have some folks very defensive about my pro-intellectualism post! I find that fascinating.
Some plumbers DO have college degrees. Going to college hones natural talents and broads horizons. Making "a fine living" to me is not what life is all about. But if that's what you think life is all about, you are welcome to espouse that philosophy.
However, I don't think you will be a leader of the future. Just like I don't think Bristol Palin will be a leader of the future with a 2 year AA degree.
Everyone here should check out the live feed which shows that about ONE out of every 8 folks visiting is coming from a computer based in WASILLA, AK. A very small town on the planet. That means to me that either there are many who visit this site to make insincere postings (disrupt Town Hall meetings), Palin gang is doing image control before the next news cycle, extreme right wingnuts are paranoid and know how this site gets attention OR there is a Big Silent Majority of Wasilla residents who are just dying to tell the truth about Palin. In that case: go to www.palindeception.blogspot.com for additional weekend reading. Enjoy.
ReplyDeleteCan someone please give my the full hyperlink to Dennis Zakis story??
ReplyDeleteI don't see it on his webpage. Am I missing it?
I have to pipe up that I think all Americans should also strive for a college education. I grew up in a very middle class family without a lot of money but a high emphasis on education. All of my siblings and I have post graduate degrees. Some of us have 3 or 4. Am I an elitest? I don't think so. I worked hard and paid for it all myself. Now that Im disabled some people think we actually like being on "entitlement programs" and even get on our case. It infuriates me.
The word entitlement is a very bad choice of words.
But that is another topic. I think the point is many on the far right cut down education and do not value it. If America is to be the best country in the world then everyone should have a college education. The world us changing and without that nowbit is hard to get a really good job. I also think trade jobs like plumbing, electricians are undervalued by our society.
So are artists and other creative professions.
My two cents please send the Zaki story and tell us more!
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of questions of birth...
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its "Audreys" site and she has almost BEGGED them to sue her! scarah wont and cant since she would have to testify under oath. whooopps!
http://palindeception.blogspot.com/
"Go Ahead. Make my Day "
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=4091845104881454109&postID=7544530449629749236
I have to pipe in here.
ReplyDeleteIt is wrong to denigrate a person who has a college degree as an "elitist", it is also wrong to denigrate someone who doesn't have a degree as a "insert cheap shot here"
I think this post speaks to alot of things we should be concerned about.
ReplyDeleteIt's not as simple as the level of education.
It really has to do with trust and faith.
Some of the most intellegent and well educated people in the world believe that the world flooded for 40 days and 40 nights, and Noah saved all the animal species on his ark.
Others believe that Jesus walked on water and made wine from water.
But they skoff at the idea that a single portly fellow can slide down every chimmney, giving gifts in a single evening or that a rabbit can't distribute candy eggs to everyone on a particular Sunday morning.
Many of these people don't believe in Thor, the God of thunder, or Apollo or Mars or Jupitor.
Many of these people don't think Mohammed spoke to Allah, the God they profess to worship. Although Mohammed had agreed that Jesus had spoken to their God.
Many of these people don't think Joseph Smith, Jim Jones or David Koresh or L.Ron Hubbard spoke with God.
Yet we listen to many of these people and respect their opinions and allow them to direct policy in a country that honors different religious beliefs but explicitly seperates religious beliefs from state policy.
We owe this to Thomas Jefferson and James Madison.
They were able to see the evils and seperate our new nation from this tangled web that for thousands of years had hindered civilization.
stop pretending.
religion inhibits us as a nation.
Religious extremist, christian, jews and muslims are hurting, not helping our growth as a civilization.
IMAGINE
there's no countries
it isn't hard to do
nothing to kill or die for
and no religion too
Imagine all the people
living life in peace
IMAGINE
Any junk mail envelopes which are stamped should be sent back stuffed with as much paper as you can get into them. And a few rocks adds up the weight too.
ReplyDeleteSouthern Miss, your point is validated by a friend of mine who has a masters degree in psychology. She says that higher learning folks are generally more narrow-minded. Her own admission!! They have too much of a focus, and live in books. Why some university graduates like President Obama have insight, common sense, and wisdom, is their life experience. The degree just opens doors. (imo) The right wing nuts are missing the lessons of life experience. Some very wise people have never attended college, but they too, have learned from their life experience and introspection.
ReplyDeleteShe's also queen of the deathers.. and the way her flock speaks.. the tea baggers, too
ReplyDeleteShe's movin' on up in this world
Queen of Death, Birth and tea bags
and the only place you see her face plastered is next to Bat Boy (like the other poster mentioned)
go sarah.. go sarah
If this college debate is an argument designed to lead us astray, let me apologize in advance to Gryphen for rising to the bait.
ReplyDeleteI think it's rather ignorant to assume that college is the only place where one can gain higher knowledge. Years ago I assumed that the more degrees one had the more educated they were. Then I got a job in a professional setting and was surprised to find that some of my highly-educated colleagues hadn't picked up a book or learned a new skill since leaving the universities they'd attended.
College can give you many things, but it can't give you a lifelong thirst for learning or natural curiosity if you don't have those things already. I think a lot of people just see college as the Point A that will get them to their job, which is the Point B. College may get your foot in the professional door but it can't give you the talent or natural instinct to keep you there. You'd be surprised by the number of "J School" grads who can't write. I've lost count of how many "educated" journalists I've seen fired for poor writing, sloppy research or both.
Now, that's not to say that I didn't work with some highly educated, highly intelligent people with degrees. But I also know a large number of people who are self-made autodidactic types who excel in writing, art, music, electronics and even science. Some blew off college because they didn't do well in conventional classroom settings. They used the money they saved in tuition to start their own businesses. A number of them are doing far better now than those who took the university track.
Life experience and achievements say "I learned what I know." A college degree just says, "I paid to have someone teach me."
I myself am a college dropout and I'm not the least bit ashamed of it. I ended up doing exactly what I love for a living with time left over to learn new stuff on my own. I plan to keep learning until I die. I hope I live a long time.
Thanks, Southern Miss, Anon at 4:02 and Anon at 4:05. Well put. The idea that everyone who doesn't go to college is a redneck is offensive - just as offensive as the idea that people who do go to college are snooty and out of touch.
ReplyDeleteSo what is the deal with SarahPac? Does she keep it if she is not running for office? Does it mean she is going to run again? Why don't they have what it is about updated? Sarah or Meg can get their own blogs.
ReplyDeleteMeghan Mccain is starting to annoy. She got a fancy book deal and she is not going to tell the whole truth. She will tantalize, tease and stop. Call out all the bogus money changers.
Hey Anon at 2:32 - one last thing. I do NOT mean to denigrate your achievement. I'm sorry if it sounded that way. What I'm trying to say is that as we react to the ignorance on "the other side," let's not make things worse by sinking to their level of name-calling.
ReplyDeleteI think we need to break out those "Sore Loserman" signs from 2000.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure Sarah's a birther herself, but even she's not dumb enough to say it out loud!
Went to the PPP blog and found this link in one of the comments:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.populartechnology.net/2009/05/case-against-sarah-palin.html
Ended up spending 3 hours on it. It was quite enlightening. One of the best sites so far that put all of The Quitter's political career in one location. Definetly worth the read.
Here is the tiny url: http://tinyurl.com/cnyom5
It is not about education. It is about racism.
ReplyDeleteThe birthers do not want to accept the fact that the son of a black man was elected into the White House. It doesn't matter to them that Obama's white mother was an American citizen or, that his maternal grandfather fought at Normandy.
It is ironic that some birthers are also portraying President Obama as a Nazi. The fact is, they are promoting white supremacist ideology. It is that same hatred that caused over 11 million people to be killed by the Nazi Party. Not only were six million Jews killed, but others including the disabled, mentally ill and Christians who did not bow to the state.
College is but one way to become educated. I personally have a graduate degree, but more of my education has come from extensive reading than from attending college courses. After all, college is generally only 4-5 years of your life unless you become a professor or researcher.
ReplyDeleteA college setting is not for everyone, and many successful educated people never complete a degree. Bill Gates and Michael Dell are two of the more prominent examples. Both have succeeded very well without a degree and both give back to the community through their foundations.
Rationalist, I am Anon 2:32. I didn't feel you denigrated my achievements at all. No worries.
ReplyDeleteTo everyone else -
I have read everyone's comments: I still say that all American children should be given a path to a 4-year college education. I am fighting the Conservate meme linking education to elitism. Education is a populist right in civilized countries in a 21st century transglobal market. I've only been to 30 countries, but it worries me when I compare the level of sociopolitical discourse in the USA to what I've seen in other parts of the world. Americans need to be smarter.
College is a great equalizer. Some of you may come from more privileged backgrounds than mine and thus do not see how this can be so. What I wish for all Americans is this: to have grand socio-political-cultural-epistemological adventures throughout life--often launched via a vibrant college experience.
I do not equate "making a living" to an education. Sorry. None of my posts ever suggested that. That to me is a "trade" assignation to the concept of education. You "may" learn aspects of a trade in college. But to merely connect an education with "making a living" to me is quite philosophically limiting.
Aloha.