Tuesday, March 09, 2010

Is President Obama channeling Ronald Reagan when it comes to the mass firing of educators in Rhode Island?

A Rhode Island school board’s decision to fire the entire faculty of a poorly performing school, and President Obama’s endorsement of the action, has stirred a storm of reaction nationwide, with teachers condemning it as an insult and conservatives hailing it as a watershed moment of school accountability.

The decision by school authorities in Central Falls to fire the 93 teachers and staff members has assumed special significance because hundreds of other school districts across the nation could face similarly hard choices in coming weeks, as a $3.5 billion federal school turnaround program kicks into gear.


I am extraordinarily angered by this decision, and stunned by the fact that Obama seems to endorse this scorched earth approach to solving such a complicated problem. These are underpaid teachers struggling to do a good job in a challenging environment, not petulant Teamsters demanding longer coffee breaks!

And just who does the Rhode Island school board think they are going to find to replace these 93 fired teachers? What qualified educator in their right mind would interview for a job in a school that treats its teachers this way?

The Washington Post shares my dismay.

Now, all they have to do is find 93 excellent professionals to take their places. Recruiting the best educators should be easy, especially when you can offer them life in a very poor town and a job with no security.

Just take a look at the statistics working against these potential replacement teachers.

The statistics are dreadful, according to a CNN report, "Central Falls High School is one of the lowest-performing schools in Rhode Island."
The network adds that the school "operates in a community where the median income is $22,000, according to census statistics."


"Of the school's 800 students, 65 percent are Latino and most of them consider English a second language. Half the student body is failing every subject, with 55 percent meeting requirements in reading and only 7 percent in math."

Can't you just see teachers all over the country fine tuning their resumes for a chance to work at THIS school? These are teachers not fucking magicians! When teachers are facing these kinds of challenges you don't deal with them punitively you offer them support, incentives, guidance.

These are the same tactics used by Ronald Reagan back in 1981, to bust a strike by the air traffic controllers, the repercussions of which we are still feeling even today.

The lessons learned from that debacle should inform President Obama that these decisions should not be taken lightly and that the fallout can last decades.

I also find myself stunned that this president still uses the bullshit measurements provided by George Bush's anti-educational No Child Left Behind Act to determine a school's worth to its community. The NCLB act is one of those most punitive and unfair pieces of legislation to ever make its way through the Senate.

It destroys children's creativity and unfairly punishes schools in lower income or multi-lingual communities. Our President, who grew up in Hawaii of all places, should be hyper sensitive to that reality. But sadly he seems to be focusing on the numbers at the expense of the human cost of this decision. I expected more from this man who I worked so hard to help elect.

Fortunately it appears that cooler heads may prevail.

A Rhode Island school superintendent and union leaders, who have been at odds over a decision to fire every teacher at a struggling high school, signaled Wednesday that a compromise that would preserve jobs and overhaul the school may be possible.

Gallo's statement followed an overture Tuesday from the Central Falls Teachers' Union, an affiliate of the American Federation of Teachers. The instructors have offered support for a longer school day, as well as more rigorous evaluations and training, among other steps.

That appeared to pave the way for reopening negotiations on the proposed dismissals.

Well that is comforting news, and I certainly hope that the real grownups involved in this situation will do the right thing for these children. And that is NOT to fire a whole school full of teachers!

However I am worried that Obama's rash decision to weigh in on this crisis has damaged his credibility with America's educators. I was working at a school during the 2008 caucuses and election, and I can tell you these people were passionate about politics. I had a number of very animated exchanges with teachers supporting Hillary before the nomination process was complete, and then a few with McCain supporters before the general election. These were the people most likely to show up for a rally, or make phone calls to help their candidate, or donate their time fund raising.

And they have long memories. From this time forward President Obama needs to make sure that any decision which has this response: conservatives (are) hailing it as a watershed moment of school accountability. Is a decision that he avoids like the plague.

Republicans have been trying to destroy the public school system for decades. Remember, an undereducated populace is much more likely to vote for the GOP ticket. It is in the best interests of any Democratic President to do everything in their power to spoil the Republican plans to dumb down our future voters. And job one toward that goal, in my opinion, is to quickly do away with NCLB, and to start giving our nations teachers the tools and the incentives to help create the artists, and inventors, and scientists, and politicians, and dreamers of tomorrow.

Update: I just re-read my post and thought "Damn Gryphen, did you type this post with your fists?"

I guess in a way I kind of did. Sometimes there are just subjects to which I have a huge emotional response. And this is one of them.

I have worked around teachers for about thirty years and have always had a soft spot for the Alaska education system. But five years ago when I started to work directly with teachers in a classroom setting, I began to really learn what it took to be an educator these days.

Number one most of the teachers I met did NOT take the summers off, unless they were married to somebody who made a fairly substantial living. A lot of my teacher friends taught summer school, did tutoring, or worked in other fields completely unrelated to education for the two or so months they were on summer break. (One teacher I knew owned a landscaping company and he spent the summers mowing, weed whacking, and raking with a crew of young college kids. During the winter he would drive his work truck to school which always looked comical with snow covered rakes and shovels sticking out everywhere.)

It is the most common thing in the world to see teachers preparing lesson plans on the weekends or staying late into the evening long after the children have left preparing a project for the next day.

The teacher I worked with never seemed to leave the building, and would sometimes get frustrated that I could not stay after hours with her because I had another job that I had to attend to. Fortunately I was a good worker and never really fell behind. But she was certainly not the exception to the rule by any means.

Teachers in our school often seemed to be raising their families as much in their classrooms as at home, and it was not unusual to see their children helping after school to straighten things up, or cut out alphabet shapes, or sort the toys for cleaning. These teachers did not consider what they did just a job, they considered it a calling and they were as dedicated as any priest or nun.

So when I saw the article which spoke of ninety three teachers losing their jobs, all I could think about was ninety three families losing their income, ninety three sets of children watching their parent lose all that they had sacrificed for, and ninety three broken hearts who believed that this president would fix the problems created by the last president.

Did I have a visceral response to that? You bet your ass I did!

I have had a chance to clear my head and look at it anew. But I am still not happy with the message sent by this White House, and I certainly hope that they show a lot more compassion when they deal with other schools that are struggling to help their children successfully meet the unfair testing criteria demanded by NCLB.

66 comments:

  1. School districts in deep financial trouble in MI have had to do this, too. I don't think it's a copy Reagan thing. It seems to be the best option for them to downsize within union constraints. When you have 15% unemployment, the tax base has crashed, and a requirement to balance the budget you have some unattractive choices.

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  2. Anonymous7:27 AM

    I'm not sure we have the whole story. I remember hearing when this story first broke a few weeks ago, that the union wasn't willing to bargain, or bargain in good faith, or give up certain things necessary. Of course, "negotitating in good faith" is very subjective, but I remember after the news segment thinking that it was too early to judge. I don't necessarily think the school board is right, but I no longer assumed they were wrong.

    I know in my school district the high school principal wanted to consider a later start time - because research indicates that teenagers need more sleep, particularly in the morning - expecting them to go to bed earlier was unrealistic from both a sociological and biological perspective. The teachers wouldn't even think of it. They liked getting out of work at 2pm and didn't want to change their working hours. As a parent of a teenager, I wasn't pleased.
    Unions can be a good thing, and protect workers. They can also be unreasonable.

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  3. Take a look at how hard it is to fire NYC teachers who're drunk, sleeping in class, etc.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/24/education/24teachers.html?scp=19&sq=rubber%20room&st=cse

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  4. EmilyPeacock7:45 AM

    How LONG has this school district been underperforming? I don't know enough about the particular educational standards in this particular school and, as you know, statistics can be skewed to show the results you seek, so I am skeptical about the underlying premise. Educating children is a three-pronged tool - teachers teaching, children learning and parents participating. There are many poor school districts in Harlem which excel in the education of inner city children.
    Just as we have expectations of an education for our children, so too should we have expectations of the teachers to whom we entrust our children. If children fail, and, in this case, fail spectacularly years after year, then there is a problem. Just as in the private sector, if you don't do your job as expected, you're let go. There are too many teachers who have lost the joy and passion and should not be teaching. And, yes, teachers are paid poorly for the most part and should be recompensed according to their length of service and the success of their students (and I don't mean just passing tests), but we cannot keep rewarding mediocrity. Something as drastic as this is certainly a wake-up call to the School Board and the teachers and parents that they need to step up and find ways to improve the quality of the service they provide to the people who pay their salaries.

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  5. Anonymous8:06 AM

    Obama didn't fire the teachers. Old Mother Reagan did fire the air traffic controllers.

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  6. Anonymous8:08 AM

    Well, anyone want to sign on to be a teacher? How about at a school with an disadvantaged population? No? I can't imagine why not.

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  7. This teacher says AMEN!!

    I followed this on HuffPo a few weeks ago and the comments infuriated me. Apparently a lot of people really hate teachers.

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  8. Anonymous8:16 AM

    If the school is failing, it's the people...not the building.

    Something has to change, and it needs to be drastic.

    Seems like the grownups - the school board - have gotten the attention of the teachers and will get some big changes on the table. That's a good thing. I salute their bold decision.
    -Rob

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  9. Anonymous8:19 AM

    Isn't it funny, (Ha Ha) that poorly performing schools almost never occur in wealthy school districts?
    That schools in poor school districts often don't have text books, often have leaking roofs, one, Palm Elementery in Austin, Texas was famous for having non working toilets, while across town football stadiums, swimming pools, thousand seat auditoriums etc were being lavished on well to do students.

    It's usually not the teachers, not the school, not the students that are broken, it a system that will not make available the tools necessary to properly educate students in less well to do, linquistically mixed school districts. Education is not a one size fits all process, reality needs to play a part somewhere in the decision making process.


    If anybody should be fired it is the state and Federal Government that have allowed that school to languish for years and years.

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  10. Anonymous8:20 AM

    President Obama supports stellar educational approaches such as the Harlem Children's Zone, started by Geoffrey Canada. We need exceptional teachers, even in our poorest communities. And many urban school districts (check out efforts in Baltimore City, for example) are demonstrating how that can be done.

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  11. On the flip side, Gryph, had the teachers NOT all been fired, the whole system would have limped along in its broken glory for lord knows how long.

    I, personally, think this was a *grand* 'wake up call' to the whole lot of 'em...and to other systems where the entrenched are unwilling to *seriously* do what is *necessary* and *right* BY the kids.

    To cite an old adage: "If you aren't part of the solution, you *are* part of the problem." It's painfully obvious (as shown by 'the numbers') that the teachers were NOT --for whatever reason-- reaching their students. They, the teachers, *were* ALL part of the problem.

    While I have utmost respect and admiration for education and for those dedicated souls who daily teach, I cannot --and will not-- abide those 'teachers' who are content to draw a paycheck no matter whether their charges are actually learning anything, or not. IF the teachers in the system *had* recognized how it was breaking down (it didn't do so overnight, did it?) they'd have raised holy he11 *before* it got to this point. That they didn't [either recognize the deterioration of the program(s) and/or raise he11 over it] tells me that they do NOT 'deserve' to be teaching...that they are imminently *unqualified* to be in the profession.

    Would you be 'comfortable' with a medical practice/hospital where the survival/success rate was as low as this system's 'success' rate is? I think not. I *know* you wouldn't...if you had a lick of sense about you. Why, then, should we ask parents (and/or the commmunity) to send their children to a school [system] where it's almost guaranteed the child will be *worse* off after going/attending than when they first started?

    Just as doctors are *responsible* for the care/healing of their patients, so, too, are teachers *responsible* for educating our youngsters...if they *can't* accomplish that goal, get rid of the whole ruddy bunch...THEY *are* part of the problem! beth.

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  12. Curious8:30 AM

    "These are underpaid teachers struggling to do a good job in a challenging environment, not petulant Teamsters demanding longer coffee breaks!"

    Just out of curiousity, how much do the teachers at the Central Falls high school make? Anyone know?

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  13. Anonymous8:35 AM

    I had an wonderful teacher. I've had others. My son had some "difficult" instructors here in Alaska. They have been directed by social forces to striate children socially. Sometimes, they have to just control the mayhem. The "reporting" that they do federally which was implemented under the republicans is onerous in terms of time and as social policy. That being said there are seriously uninterested teachers. They just want to get through the year. It is a survivalist mentality. I was a very involved parent. I was not necessarily well-received but we made it through. The system needs to be improved.

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  14. Anonymous8:36 AM

    I clicked the title and thought it would lead me to Prez's comment, but didn't see anything. Can someone tell me were to find it?

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  15. deebee8:42 AM

    Will it be possible to rehire selected staff who were considered good teachers?
    I can see this mass firing as a more expedient way to re-structure than surgical firings.
    Perhaps a tertiary system which solely brings new students up to a minimum grasp of English before they are allowed mainstream participation would help overall school performance?

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  16. Let's remember that not everyone is bi-lingual. Here in TX we had a tremendous influx of illegal immigrants who speak Spanish. How do you accommodate this swell of children when you don't have bi-lingual teachers. Let alone what it does to the property tax base supporting the ISD's.

    It seems this influx of non-English speaking immigrants creates jobs for bi-lingual only applicants. Really, what does that tell you?

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  17. kdusmdd8:57 AM

    I am a former teacher and principal........What people do not understand is that schools are funded according to Student's Test Scores. If students do not participate in the learning process, the schools lose funding.
    Teachers that really care about their students find ways to educate the most reluctant learners. Some teachers do and, then, there are those that are merely there to pick up a pay check. If the whole school system is failing...then I suppose they have hired teachers that fall into the catagory of the latter.....I call them "Grifters"...and they need to go....just my opinion....

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  18. Anonymous9:04 AM

    PRIOR: a lot of people really hate teachers.

    I don't hate teachers. Some of my kids' teachers were wonderful. Others were jerks. Some were very hurtful. TEachers come in all sizes and shapes, just like everyone else.

    I don't presume that the teachers and school being fired are saints and the school district is a big bad bully.

    I assume it's a complicated situation and that much of the back story isn't being reported. I've heard bits and pieces of a back story, but it's not getting much air time. As best I remember, there were some good guys on the side of the board, and others that were for a "hang 'em all" attitude - and some teachers who saw the need to negotiate and others that wanted to stand by the contract regardless of the resources of the district or the needs of the students.

    I don't presume all teachers are saints. I've seen too many bad ones. I'm also very grateful for some very very good teachers.

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  19. Anonymous9:17 AM

    Thanks for posting this with links to the other articles.

    I wish people would read the entire story before jumping to conclusions like "the teachers didn't negotiate in good faith."

    Let's see: the first thing the superintendent did was press to add 25 minutes a day to the contract time. Most teachers already put in tons of extra hours before and after the school day and those hours are without pay. They also kick in money out of their own pockets for basic classroom supplies. If you don't believe, go talk with some teachers.

    Demanding an extra 25 minutes a day adds up. Do the math. Ask yourself would you be willing to work that much extra time a month for free? Yeah, sure, everyone is eager to do that.

    Besides, most teachers work under negotiated contracts. What was being asked was a forced break in contract terms. How would you feel about that?

    Also, consider that teachers have to recertify to keep their licenses. That usually entails taking college and professional development classes at their own expense on their own time. This is a life-long deal. Do you have to do that to keep your job? Doctors, lawyers and a few other professionals do -- but remember, teachers are professionals but don't receive compensation at the rate of these other licensed professionals.

    It makes me frustrated when I see people drag out examples of the rotten apples in teaching to justify their suspicion and low regard for the profession. There are rotten apples in every field, but don't judge everyone by the exceptions.

    Gryphen is right to make the Reagan comparison. By lauding this decision, President Obama is in effect setting the groundwork for this type of response across the nation.

    It will have a devastating effect on our nation's economy and ability to compete for generations.

    If you dismantle public education now, it will take decades to build it back.

    Perhaps some readers do not realize that the much touted "charter" schools are not performing as well as the public schools. Religious-affiliated private schools often escape the rigorous supervision of state and federal mandates. I just shudder to think of what Palin's backers would do if they got all those vouchers and could start setting up their own little fanatic factories.

    Public schools have made our country strong. They serve to unite a diverse population and at least have the promise to set minimum standards of basic skills.

    Check into your local school boards. See how many of those decision makers graduated college or have any training in how to educate children. I think you will find by doing so that part of the problem is there.

    Teachers cannot teach what the school board opposes. Teachers cannot use texts the school boards do not approve. Teachers cannot control how many days kids are allowed to skip and sometimes teachers cannot even control the grades that are given because boards have forbidden homework and failing grades for students.

    As Gryphen said, the problem is much more complex. Teachers are just easy targets, easy scapegoats.

    As with any other societal problem, we all need to get off our duffs and really look into what is happening - not just pick the easiest thing to blame.

    BTW, if you think test scores are a reliable indication of the quality of education our kids are receiving, then you need to wake up and find out how the NCLB Act is skewed to undermine our educational system, not enhance it.

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  20. Enjay in E MT9:20 AM

    Teachers are not federal employees like the Air Traffic Controllers -

    As a parent (and teacher) - I'd fight the school board. Teachers are no different from those in any other profession; good & bad ones. I sympathize with teachers that have to teach to test (NCLB) and not instill a "love of learning".

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  21. My oldest daughter is a teacher in an under-funded, low wealth school district. Her biggest challenge is dealing with poor students unprepared or unable to learn due to parental neglect or apathy. Sadly enough, bad teachers in school districts like this are probably able to draw a paycheck for slouching on the job because no one really checks or cares about the kids' progress. Educated, wealthier parents generally want their children to have the best schools staffed by the best teachers. And they get them.

    My daughter did her internship in a wealthy school district; going to a poor one was a rude awakening or her. Still, she's one of the good teachers who advocates for her students and tries hard to get the parents involve and make learning fun and productive for her kids.

    But I have to say that even though it's just her third year she's getting a little worn down and frustrated by the lack of parental and administrative support.

    Most really good teachers don't have to be fired from these kind of districts. Most of the good ones end up leaving on their own. That's not to say that there are no good teachers in these poor districts, but as your post points out just who really wants to work in a setting with such low standards?

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  22. Anonymous9:30 AM

    Teachers might have to take control of their unions, because they are taking a big hit in NYC. We have a room where teachers who might be fired, are kept for YEARS on full pay with nothing to do while the union grinds slowly.

    Seniority is no way to assign teachers in cities either. The worst schools need the best teachers.

    We need to rethink this.

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  23. The schools reflect what is going on in society. Many children are raising themselves and come to school in need of attention, guidance, socializing, loving, and, oh yes, teaching. NCLB is a dreadful law, destroying our schools. Teachers, in lower income schools, are teaching to the test instead of being able to do creative things with the curriculum. The last year I worked (school psychologist) I notices that Elementary children were no longer laughing in class. The school in question was failing. How do you take a first grader fresh from Mexico, now on their third language, who leaves in Nov. (southern farm work) and returns just before the tests? Yeah, those teachers were failing. Believe me, they were trying very hard. Every child's progress was being tracked and we had hallways full of tutoring. The teachers/staff didn't need the annual slap in the face.

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  24. Anonymous9:36 AM

    No Kristen they do not hate teachers. They hate the teachers that don't teach.
    We had one in my daughter's school that had tenure (which should be abolished!) She "taught" the 7th grade math class and I use that term loosely. As the daughter of a high school mathematics teacher and an honor grad for both math and science, I knew what was supposed to be taught to prepare those kids for eighth grade and beyond.
    When I saw the laxity of teaching, I called everyone I could find and NOT A DAMNED thing could be done to get rid of her. Instead I advertised for free tutoring for that woman's class and had over 50 FIFTY students' parents sign up for help. The class size was only 120. I set up a small class room in my basement and a separate phone line to deal with any questions from the students. I also gave lessons in the high school library since the middle school refused to allow me the space. My daughter was a whiz at math so she helped me with the not as smart kids in getting them up to speed.
    Needless to say, that class had the most student who went on to high school algebra in eighth grade and that math teacher was GONE the next year. She resigned for health reasons, a nervous break down of epic proportions due in a large part to acute shame.
    THAT is why those nasty teacher comments were made.

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  25. carol from Minnesota9:41 AM

    I am a retired teacher. My daughter works in an Ohio inner city under performing school. She is a better teacher than I was. The children came to me ready to learn and we had plenty of resources to use in educating them, including the parental support. She is fighting for the students attention among the teen pregnancies, the gang fights up the block, the incarcerations, the family fights and the incest at home, the rat infested and drug overrun neighborhoods, the lack of supplies, the increased class sizes in school,and the long hours trying to find some way to reach them and give them hope and enough motivation to ignore all the chaos around them to focus on geometry. I am amazed that she is as successful as she is. No one knows how difficult teaching in these type of schools really is unless they are there. They need all the support of the community. Threats are useless and counter productive.

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  26. Anonymous9:48 AM

    As a school adminstrator I love this decision. If the union had been willing to negotiate in the best interests of the students the firings wouldn't have happened in the first place. I'm sure there are many good teachers in that school, just as I'm sure there are many mediocre teachers hiding behing the union. The scores for this school are dismal. Time for a wake up call! Besides which I think this was a strategic move for the Superintendent and School Board to get the union to negotiate in good faith more than they really expect to fire all the teachers. As far as replacements there are hundreds of kids with teaching degrees looking for jobs. Not a problem at all to find new teachers (at least not where I work which is a rural high poverty district).

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  27. Newsweek did a cover story on why American education is failing. Their conclusion: Teachers. We live in a country where teaching is not valued, as evidenced by what we are willing to pay teachers, and the fact that every year teachers are expected to produce more with fewer resources--many having to dip into their own pockets just to provide basic materials for their classes. We've made the profession as destitute and unappealing as we can possibly make it and then we turn around and punish teachers when they inevitable fail in their goals due to the cultural system we created. It's really outrageous. No doubt there were plenty of bad teachers at this school, but there were undoubtedly many good ones, too, who are now being held responsible for things they couldn't control. One excellent teacher (contrary to what Newsweek suggested) cannot make up for a massively failing system.

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  28. Anonymous9:50 AM

    I think all districts should do this, then only rehire their top techers. Too many teachers are useless but cannot be fired. Our public school system SUCKS!

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  29. Palin, "I fired all of them." Katie, "why is that?" Palin, "a wink and a wave is all you need."

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  30. Anonymous10:12 AM

    I'm still trying to figure out how Obama fired the teachers?

    Isn't he busy with other stuff to be involved in this local issue?

    Can you provide more detail of Obama's involvement?

    If not, please change the headline.

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  31. mommom10:30 AM

    NCLB is the law,Gryphon,do you expect our President to break it? Do you know these teachers personally? Perhaps this has been a long time coming,teachers entrenched in their positions,wallowing in the system,not making an effort to find ways to overcome the difficulties in their particular situation ?Perhaps the truly good teachers have moved on to better districts,the mediocre have cast their lot with the poorly motivated educaters? What would you have them do? Just because they once decided to become teachers,now they should be supported at all costs ,even if they have become rote teaching,failure factories? I live in Shreveport Louisiana. We have some of the poorest,most underpriveliged,minority school districts in a state that thinks cutting education is the answer to everything.Yet some of the best schools with the best results are in those districts.The reason is the spirit that has been infused into those schools by the educaters.They motivate the teachers and the parents,who them motivate the students.Many teachers have learned Spanish as a second language,on their own time.Just as anyone would be expected to do to continue to learn to excell at their job.My son is an IT mgr in NJ.He attends several classes each and every year,on his own time and his own dime,just to keep up in his profession and do his job properly.

    I see this case as a worst case scenario,where something had to be done to get these teachers off of their "my school is failing,my students speak spanish,I give up" butts!!

    OOOhhh,they wanted them to work a longer school day!! My DH works 6 days a week now instead of 5 for the same money in his salaried position,as do all others at his workplace. When I was in highschool many moons ago,we had such overcrowding we went to a split day schedule,and teachers worked 2 extra hours a day.For the same money.

    It looks like the tactics are working in this case,teachers are now making an effort to negotiate.Maybe they will be forced to make a difference in the lives of their students.Its what good teachers do anyway.

    Just because you know good teachers,does not mean you have any idea of what these teachers are like. Lets let this play out and see if the final answer is whats good for the students.If these teachers do not have the best interests of the students at heart,and are only in it for a paycheck and a short work year,then maybe they need to go.If,however they can see and make the effort to change these childrens lives,think how much better their future would be.

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  32. Anonymous10:34 AM

    Hi, I would typically surf your site, Mudflats and then head to Palingates. In the last few days, I noticed that the Palingates site is missing from the blog roll of two of my favorite Alaska blogs. Wonder if it is troll driven or if there is some other reason?

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  33. Anonymous10:47 AM

    My husband was with the FAA in AK when the air traffice controllers went on strike. In fact, he was chief of one of the FSS stations. He did not strike, and said that was the only good thing Reagan ever did. It got rid of a lot of troublemakers and dead wood. They did eventually hire some back.

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  34. Anonymous11:00 AM

    PRIOR: It makes me frustrated when I see people drag out examples of the rotten apples in teaching to justify their suspicion and low regard for the profession. There are rotten apples in every field, but don't judge everyone by the exceptions.


    Please show me where someone has done that. Some People have acknolwedged bad apples. Some people have complaints about assuming all teachers are saints (which is just as bad as assuming all teachers are lousy and selfish). Those are a long way from judging a profession by a rotten apples.

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  35. Anonymous11:19 AM

    People, get real.

    Gryphen is right. Who is going to teach in that district? Any volunteers from any of you who favor what happened? Probably not.

    Who is going to sub in those schools even if they get new teachers?

    Do you realize how few people are going into education? Do you know how rigorous teacher training is now?

    In my state, you have to go an extra year in college, using that year as your practicum - teaching for free! You pay tuition, attend seminars and do papers and then teach in the public school without pay and without benefits.

    Oh, yeah, I can see any of us doing that, right? Work for free for six months or a year, yep makes sense to me.

    Also - do you know that teachers don't get paid for holidays, winter, spring or summer breaks? They also do not quality for unemployment during the summer.

    Many teachers haven't had salary increases for years! Some rural districts just cannot fund them - but they will fund football teams and uniforms. Think about this, folks.

    I read some comments where posters said they had run into a bad teacher here and there - so what does that prove? Haven't we all seen bad principals, bad doctors, bad lawyers, bad politicians (cough, cough).

    Good grief, I really think we've been sold a stinky goods on the PR about how bad our schools are - why not look at the homes of these students and see how involved their parents are, how willing their communities are to support the schools, how little we do to make our kids work in school.

    Could it be that, as parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles, we could put a little more focus into making our kids value education? Could we turn off the electronic toys, turn off the TVs, fill our homes with books, sit down with our kids and discuss their homework, take them to museums, go to every parent-teacher meeting (so few parents show up at these that it is a national shame) or PTA meeting (beyond elementary school where it's easy and cool to do so).

    I think too many parents take too little interest in and responsibility for their children's education. I think too many school administrators and school boards have bought into the corporate management training so popular since the Reagan years where the teachers are seen as the enemies, the bad and greedy laborers that need to be brought to task by the management team.

    Most of our schools are not failing. Most are doing as well as can be expected with the minimal support and inattention to how many burdens are being placed on the classroom.

    Visit your schools - not just once but often. You won't be so quick to condemn teachers if you do.

    You might even wind up amazed that anyone does this thankless but noble job.

    If you don't see the point of this article: that to get federal money, schools are going to have to start slash and burn, then sad for you because this is just another quick fix that is all the rage now but will devastate our system for years to come.

    Think long-term, not short-term dramatics. Gosh, I cannot believe so many people have so little faith in teachers and their earnest desire to make a positive difference in the lives of our children.

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  36. Anonymous11:32 AM

    Bravo, Mommom! Bravo! Couldn't have said it better myself.

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  37. Gasman11:40 AM

    Teacher Rant I
    I am sick and tired of the “blame the teacher” game that I have seen played out for at least 40 years in this country. I have been amazed at how normally rational people will automatically spout “lazy teachers” or “bad teachers” anytime the subject of education arises. I am a classroom teacher with close to 30 years of experience at all levels from pre-school to college and I am here to tell you if you blame the teachers for what ails education you don’t know what in the hell you are talking about. This is nothing more than Agnewesque antiunion boilerplate garbage. It doesn’t make anymore sense today than it did 40 years ago.

    First of all, as a class of people, teachers are no better or worse, no lazier, no more incompetent than anyone else. There are exceptional, average, and incompetent ones just as there are in any other profession. In fact, I would argue that on the whole, teachers are more committed to their profession than most. Why? Because they sure as hell are NOT in it for the money. We don’t pay enough to attract people just for the money. The people who stay in education generally do so out of a love for and dedication to teaching children. To demean the profession is insulting and counterproductive.

    I am a very good teacher with an excellent track record. However, the best teacher in the world cannot produce test results in any and every situation. If there is dysfunction in the school board, school administration, or in individual homes - i.e., lack of parental involvement and support, the best teacher in the world cannot be expected to produce ever rising test scores. Maslow’s hierarchy of needs states that unless a person’s most basic of needs - food, shelter, safety, etc, - are met, self actualization, a realization of one’s potential, is not only unlikely, it may well be impossible. As a high school teacher I regularly had students from abusive homes, students who had been in jail, students who had unstructured or dysfunctional families, or students whose parents simply didn’t give a damn. To expect teachers to simply raise the test scores of students like these is naive, unrealistic, and does an extreme disservice to these students whose basic needs are not being met. A blind reliance on “test scores” is uncaring and imbecilic.

    Standardized tests are useless and lazy attempts to justify the expenditure of educational dollars to school boards and legislators and other politicians. The only people that benefit from standardized tests are the companies which sell them. The No Child Left Behind fiasco was a HUGE boon to the testing industry and a massive fuster cluck for everybody else. When a company rep gives a spiel to a school board or other pols, and says “I have a test that measures student performance,” the politicians say, “great, can we have in place tomorrow?” When a teacher hears the same claim, we say. “who wrote the test and prove to me that it actually measures what you claim it does.” It is not educators who implement these tests, it is politicians.

    Can we please dispel the pernicious myth that you cannot fire bad teachers? Sure, the process will differ from district to district and state to state, but I guarantee you that EVERY school district has a policy in hand for firing teachers who are not doing their jobs. I have personally witnessed bad teachers who were allowed to stay specifically because the administration did not follow the procedures they had on the books to get rid chronically ineffective teachers. This is a canard that is largely spread by anecdote and rumor.

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  38. Gasman11:42 AM

    Teacher Rant II
    Before you bitch about teachers, spend a week, or better yet, two volunteering in a classroom and see with your own eyes what a teacher’s job actually entails. We are plagued with mindlessly idiotic bureaucracy, inefficiency, administrative incompetency at school, board, and state levels, and the indifference of parents. In my high school I had to wait 8 weeks to simply get a handful of dry erase markers for my classroom board from our central office supply warehouse. Eight weeks! Larger purchases could take months or years. The problem of classroom supplies is so bad that the IRS routinely allows a personal deduction of several hundred dollars for teachers (it was $250 when I was teaching h.s.) without itemization. They know that the average teacher probably spends far more than the deduction, so they don’t even require receipts.

    What is the reward that we get for our putting up with all of the above and more? We get to hear about mass firings of teachers and that people are cheering on such actions. Unions are not the problem either. The unions are there to protect teachers from the abuse that districts regularly mete out. In the high school where I taught, our principal wanted to save money by eliminating the office staff who tabulated daily student attendance. Her solution? Simply make the teachers do the job during their prep time. We DIDN’T HAVE extra time during our prep. This in addition to NCLB generated paperwork we also didn’t have time for. This kind of “mission creep” for teachers is rather standard in nearly every district in the country.

    Before blindly accepting the “blame the teachers” mantra, please actually better inform yourself about ALL of the issues which surround the problems in our educational system. I guarantee you that driving out good teachers by making the demands of the job ridiculous, by paying less than a living wage, and by insulting them is NOT going to make the situation better.

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  39. CGin WI11:42 AM

    I share your visceral response, every bit of it.

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  40. We don't really know what arm twisting the White House uses behind the scenes. But the federal executive branch does not have the power to make hiring and firing decisions for local school districts, which are branches of state government. And we wouldn't want them to. I hope this situation is resolved amicably, but not by President Obama.

    @Anon@10:34-Gryphen posted and then un-posted an explanation of why he removed Palingates from his blog roll. I believe Palingates and Mudflats had a dispute, since resolved, concerning the origin of the story of the Palins and Hugo Chavez. That was part of the reason.

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  41. Anonymous12:01 PM

    Why are you ignoring the protests that are going on in Washington, D.C? You people act like it's not important. Why aren't you down at your representative's office making it known that you've had enough?

    Because you haven't had enough yet?

    Luv from Canada.
    The socialist capital of the world, right?

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  42. Obama channeling Reagan?

    Jeez Gryph. . . .

    I'm an educator and still see all the sides. But this channeling side is--uh shall we say-- a bit ridiculous.

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  43. Anonymous12:40 PM

    Not one of knows what the real situation was in that school...unless someone here is a resident.

    But what we DO know is that LOCAL people, who live there, and who were elected to oversee the schools....made the decision.

    This is not about whether teachers work hard, or are noble, or competent, as a general rule. Teachers don't deserve to be slammed for being in a union, and they don't deserve to be put on a pedestal either. It is an individual matter.

    Trust the local board to have made the correct decision, unless you have actual facts showing the contrary...and I have not heard one claimed fact yet on this.

    A 'visceral response' that slams the school board and the President ought to have more thought behind it, I think.

    -Rob

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  44. Anonymous1:07 PM

    PRIOR: Can we please dispel the pernicious myth that you cannot fire bad teachers?

    RESPONSE: Only if we can dispel the myth that all districts are the same, and it's never hard to fire bad teachers. I know. I had a principal explain to me the process by which one teacher was able to maneuver for years, despite what everyone knew.

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  45. Anonymous1:12 PM

    How did this become a question of whether teachers are dedicated, competent, noble, or they are lazy and stupid. I don't think that is the issue Gryphen posted about, and I think the argument is a waste of time and that we most all agree - there are lots of good teachers, some very bad ones, the system is difficult.
    One issue many of hte "teachers are wonderful" often fail to address is the role of the union in what happens in schools. Unions are for the teachers - not hte schools, not the children (which isn't to say that the children and schools aren't considered, but that isn't who the union leadership has a duty to). And that's okay, it's just a reality that has to be included in teh debate.

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  46. Anonymous1:17 PM

    I am a retired teacher from Alaska and was amazed at the amount of right wingers that are teachers here in Anchorage. It just amazes that these scab/scumbags do nothing but bash unions, despise our so called socialistic president but are glad to take that paycheck and health benefits the union has worked to give them. I only tell these people to quit their jobs with the ASD and start working for lower pay and no health benefits with one of your friendly church schools.

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  47. Anonymous1:32 PM

    I also wondered if this went too far. I did see the local teacher's union president on The News Hour speaking about this last week. The issue is not as clear as it may seem at first. I feel for the teachers who are attempting to teach in this district. However, if a school fails to improve on a 7% math competency year after year someone should have done something long ago. You have to consider that these children will spend a set number of years in school. If a school fails to improve year after year,after year it is totally unacceptable. The system is failing the children. Families will have children unprepared to earn a living or become contributing members of society. This perpetuates poverty. I too wondered about whether the president should have spoken out about this. Perhaps he is sending a message that schools will no longer be allowed to fail children.
    Don't forget that it is the children who are the real losers when a school system fails to do its job.

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  48. Anonymous1:33 PM

    THANK YOU Gasman for sharing some of the realities of working in a classroom.

    I work as a teacher in an elementary school, although I only get paid as a support staff member which is $10 to 15,000 less than a teacher of my experience and education. During my first year in this position, I received a budget of $0. Since there are no prepared instructional materials for what I do (nor did I have money to buy them if they existed), I was expected to produce materials and supplies for approximately 150 students with NO MONEY! I paid for all of my own copy paper, construction paper, glue sticks, crayons, scissors, pencils, etc. I created all my instructional materials on my computer at home and printed them on my own printer, using special software that I purchased. Like many teachers, I have collected a library of books that I use on a daily basis that were paid for out of my pocket. I love what I do and I make a tremendous difference in the lives of my students, but it is certainly NOT an easy path.

    There are numerous students in my school who go for weeks without a bath and who return on Monday with the same clothes they wore every day the previous week, without washing, despite the repeated reminders sent home with them. Many of them do not get regular meals outside of school. Many of them must get themselves up and ready for school because their parents are still sleeping or out of the home altogether in the mornings. It has become a regular routine to bathe some of our most neglected students as well as can be done in a bathroom sink, purchase clothing that is brought home and laundered each weekend by the teachers and provide backpacks, outerwear, and school supplies for those who have none.

    Some of the students I work with have made 2-3 years of progress in EACH of the past 2 years, but according to our wonderful NCLB-inspired state testing, their teacher is failing miserably because they are not yet on grade level.

    Like all professions, there are bad teachers who are taking advantage of the system. But there are far more wonderful teachers who are dedicated, creative, hard-working and doing the best they can for their students, under the most challenging circumstances, usually with little or no support from administration or parents. Maybe teaching was an easy profession years ago when there were traditional families who expected their children to perform well in school and valued education. But now, with the lack of support from home, the pressure of testing and constantly changing new technology (usually to be learned and utilized on your own time) and the criticism of the general public, teaching is a profession where only the most determined and dedicated will survive.

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  49. Anonymous1:44 PM

    I am an elementary teacher and have been teaching for the last 23 years. I have seen a lot of changes in education during these years, and I have especially seen a lot of changes in the family values of the children I teach. Education, for many families, comes last behind a long list of other priorities, like sports, dance classes and family excursions. People are so busy running from hockey practice to dance classes to cub scouts to birthday parties. They don't make time to listen to their kids read a book or check their homework to be sure it was completed correctly. Too busy - not enough time!

    Parents should be teaching their children that their education critically important for their future. Only a small percentage of students will play professional sports when they grow up. But every student will need to know the 3 R's in order to get a job and support themselves when they are adults.

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  50. Anonymous1:52 PM

    Gryphen, you are 100 percent on target. No need to apologize for your passion. I feel just as you do. And I really am starting to wonder about Obama. This guy owes his success in school to the heroic efforts of his well educated, english speaking mother. She got up at 3am to help/force him to study I also get angry thinking about the huge challenges these children face which greatly contribute to their learning difficulties. This is not the fault of their teacher. I soubt many of these children are similarly blessed.These kids are growing up in financially strapped households. How many of them are receiving adequate, healthy nutrition. How many of them are getting good healthcare. Financial hardships cause a lot of stress and this can produce very difficult home environments. Many of these kids may not even have a quiet place to study and do homework. Many of their parents can't provide them with assistance. These are problems which need to be addressed before we start bashing teachers for not being miracle workers.

    Getting off my soapbox now.

    Claudianyc

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  51. mommom2:09 PM

    """"Also - do you know that teachers don't get paid for holidays, winter, spring or summer breaks? They also do not quality for unemployment during the summer"""

    Do you know someone else in a salaried position who gets paid separately for holidays?Or who gets fall,winter,and spring breaks?

    Its built into the salary.Hey,at least they get them off.My DH has not had a Xmas off in 24 years!!And he does not get paid extra for working it.My DD has not had an Xmas,Thanksgiving,Easter,or New years off in 10years,she does not get paid extra for working it,and she is hourly. I know she would like to have summers off too,with no reduction in pay!!

    Actually,I do volunteer,as a grandparent.A lot of us do around here,my DD's job keeps her from being able to do so,so I take up the slack.Its a lot of fun!!I have always loved children and if I had the education,I would have been a teacher,kids like to be around me.

    There are no easy answers.Just because you are a good teacher,or your son or daughter or friend,does not mean they all are.They are not all bad.But that one bad apple making the whole bunch bad has a tendency to work that way.One teacher is lazy,or arrogant,or bored,yet gets paid the same as some others who are a little tired.Now some of them go over the edge and give up,but still do the minimum and get paid.Now more see this and get tired of dealing with the fallout from their coworkers who taught last year,or last period,some of them fall down.Its a downward spiral,and its easy.An upward spiral is a lot more difficult.

    Here,we hear about teachers going into their own pocket to buy supplies,but Im not sure.We are provided with lists at the beginning of the year,each of my GS's had a list that cost more than $50 to fill,with the normal notebooks and pencils and markers for their use,plus the tissues and Purell,and dry erase markers,and paper towels and wipes and cleaners for class use.We provided all of that,plus extras donated for those who could not get it all(Im one of those crazy coupon ladies!) Then we paid a $25 class fee and some other $20 fee for something,for each, all the first week.Since then,the teachers send home info when they run out of things or get low(maybe they only send to me because they know I stockpile?).All of this for a 7 and 9 year old.

    If teachers are having to buy paper and pencils for children somewhere,then the parents and community leaders should be horsewhipped.If they are having to buy the supplies they need to do their job,like paying for their own continuing education,as normal people in the private sector do,that is normal.No one buys my husbands pens and his cellphone for work is provided by him. No one pays for the classes he has taken in Excell and Word to keep up with changes at work. This is real life.

    Do we value our teachers enough?Not the good ones.But the bad or even the mediocre ones get rewarded when they get to keep their jobs.

    In my opinion,the jury is still out in Rhode Island.Lets see what happens there.I bet the students get a better education with a more alert staff that spends a bit more time eacc day with the kids.

    I have an opinion about the influx of Spanish peaking students too. If you work in the private sector and the demands of your job change,you are expected to learn the new requirements,or find a job that uses the old ones.That should apply here too.Attending a class to learn at least some Spanish would seem to be the intelligent thing to do for someone who values education.The easy thing to do is to turn a blind eye and a deaf ear to the needs of your students,and blame them. They are children,you are teachers,get over it and gain the skills to do you job well with them. Heck,I had to learn some Spanish for my last job at a casino,I used the Rosetta stone software and did it at home.
    I too hate the Leap tests and others,but thre must be some accountability.If someone has an answer,please,say what it is,and we can all start a campaign to get it passed.

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  52. Gryphen, thanks for posting this and your anger and frustration is certainly understood. It simply is not believable that all 93 of the teachers involved are incompetent. That is simply ludicrous and I am very disappointed in President Obama endorsing this. I have a very dear friend in Atlanta who is retired but still teaches on a part time basis, simply because he loves teaching, certainly not because of any financial gain. He maintains communication with his former students via his Facebook. Some of these people were his students 25 years ago and now have children of their own in school, and appreciate his guidance, friendship and input more than ever.

    I am glad however to finally know what profession is lucky enough to claim Gasman. As usual your articulate assessment of this situation is stellar as always.

    I hope indeed cooler heads do prevail in this.

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  53. Gasman2:47 PM

    School boards are entry level politics and ROUTINELY produce some of the most ridiculous and ham fisted governmental decisions imaginable. In all of the places that I've ever lived I think only one school board has been worth a damn. Add to that the insidious infiltration of school boards by groups like NAR who want to dumb down curriculum to conform to their sky wizard worship.

    Why should we automatically defer to the school board? Is it plausible that ALL of teachers were incompetent? This sounds like shotgun justice to me. This is about union busting and not quality education. If it were really about quality they would not have employed scattershot punishment for all. They undoubtedly threw out good teachers. Any ruling that damns all teachers is obviously not justice or good for the students.

    If I have to trust someone, it will be the teachers, not the school board.

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  54. Anonymous4:31 PM

    I understand the frustration. Firing them all undoubtedly means the good go along with the bad.

    However...

    The good can be rehired, selectively.

    And the overwhelming priority - we should all agree I think - is the students.

    They deserve a great education, and a great school. They haven't been getting it. So the question for the school board is the same one Obama asked about health care reform:

    "If not now, when?"
    "If not us, who?"

    The children cannot wait. They have to act now. If the community decides they were wrong, they can vote them out.
    -Rob

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  55. I am a teacher-librarian. (In my state you cannot get a library media credential unless you have a teaching credential first. I have two.)

    Obama lost credibility with me when he appointed Arne Duncan. He will never be the education president. I'm still waiting for an education president.

    Along with the extra hours (teachers put in on average a 50-60 work week because of the work they do at home and on weekends) they also spend on average about 10% of their income subsidizing the classroom for materials the schools cannot afford to provide. Yes, they spend their own meager discretionary income for other people's children.

    I am so sick of the disrespect I get. Maybe I wouldn't feel so bad if I was making the same money as a CEO everyone is bashing for getting obscene bonuses. But for the training I have and the job I do I am at the very bottom of compensation compared to like jobs with like education requirements.

    You said it Gryphen. Who will Rhode Island get to take these 93 jobs? I'll tell you. New hires fresh out of college that need a job, any job, to start paying off their student loans. 93 clueless rookies with no one to mentor them.

    It seems the same people that demand people with advanced science degrees, math degrees, the best of the best become teachers also demand at the same time that they should do it for the lowest pay possible. They spew that teachers make too much money, don't deserve retirement pensions or healthcare and seem to have some really bizarre idea of exactly what it takes to teach. I hear all time time that teachers babysit for 6 hours and have 3 months off in the summer. 3 months? (For the 8 weeks a teacher has off in the summer...you do not get paid. Hence the second jobs.) I heard some guy on the news the other night screaming about teachers making $85.00 an hour. Where? I want one of those jobs. Because I'm at the absolute top of the pay scale and I make $50.00 an hour BEFORE taxes. They take out money for my pension and money for my healthcare. Yes, I pay into my retirement and my healthcare. After that I'm lucky if I'm making $37.00 an hour. You know who makes $37.00 an hour? Someone working an assembly line. Try to hire a plumber or an electrician for $37.00 an hour. What is a child's education worth to you? To the future of this country?

    The local Navy recruitment officer will be retiring soon after 20 years. He only has a bachelor's degree. I have two masters and have been teaching 30 years. He makes more money than I do. He isn't even an officer.

    For those screaming about the greedy teachers who don't do any work and are getting rich off of the school system...I don't know what to tell you. But I would like you to clearly and articulately make your case as to why I or any other teacher should provide your children with the best public school education for minimum wage. Why should I make less than a cashier at Walmart. Is that how much you value your child's education?

    You get what you pay for.

    Rhode Island is going to reap what they sow. If I were one of those 93 I wouldn't go back. I'd be polishing up my resume and going elsewhere.

    Did I mention I'm also a National Board Certified Teacher?

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  56. Wow, Gasman. Everything you said. I'd like my braincell back now.

    BTW you can fire an incompetent teacher. The problem is that most administrator's are too lazy to take the time to properly document and follow procedures.

    We don't have tenure in my district. We have "just cause". In other words, the district has to prove they have just cause to fire a teacher. Why? Because without it, they'd just fire all of the experienced teachers with advanced degrees that cost more on the pay scale and replace them with cheap, new hire rookies fresh out of college because they're cheaper. Perhaps someone from one of these school districts can speak to the quality of education going on there. It's a revolving door. You teach for a few years. Then your contract isn't renewed and you're replaced with a younger, cheaper teacher.

    There's more to teaching than education or natural ability. There is also experience.

    Maybe if I added an EdD to my alphabet soup and demanded that everyone call me "Dr" I'd get some respect.

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  57. Gasman7:27 PM

    mlaiuppa,
    Don't you bet that a doctorate gets you respect in public education. In post secondary yes, but public no. I've got a doctorate, as a matter of fact probably the only doctorate in my field in my entire state when I was still in public education, and I was treated just as callously as anybody. I'm back teaching in the college ranks now and am MUCH happier. I loved the h.s. students, but I HATED the administration, school board, and state board of education. Never has there existed a greater concentration of asshats outside of Washington.

    Now I don't have to involuntarily subsidize my school by providing my students with supplies purchased with my own money. I also don't have to deal with the asinine NCLB bullshit. If standardized tests were the be all and end all of education, how come we don't use them at the college level, where we actually teach teachers?

    Every time I hear or read someone complaining about how little teachers work, I want to go postal. I never worked less than 60 hours AND the demands got harder and the workload greater each semester. Plus I got to hear about how lazy teachers were. I also worked other jobs in the summer to make ends meet. There was NOTHING cushy about being a h.s. teacher.

    Please stay out of arm's reach if you bitch about teachers in my presence.

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  58. Central Falls is a pit. A total and disgusting pit.

    Don't worry... they will get a dozen well-qualified applicants for each opening. And those who are hired will do their best to be better than those who came before them.

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  59. Anonymous8:33 PM

    I agree 100% with your original comments, Gryphen - no need to walk them back. Seems pretty clear to me that the mass firing was union busting in disguise. I'm really disheartened by all of the teacher-bashing here, one of the last places I expected to read the same drivel I have to see my local Gannett-ized paper.

    I voted for Obama and agree with a number of things he's done but I believe he's got a real blind spot when it comes to education. He himself went to an elite private high school & then private universities for college. His kids have only attended private schools. He doesn't really know how it is in the public schools, even for bright students with attentive parents. I am very, very thankful my kid graduated from high school (National Merit Scholar, thank you public school teachers) before NCLB was put in place.

    Perhaps if Obama's kids were in a public school & coming home with accounts every day of what goes on there as well as suffering the consequences of NCLB (no fine arts, no music, no or few languages), he might begin to understand what many teachers are dealing with.

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  60. Anonymous9:26 PM

    Truth--from what I read, this population was very transient. Tell me how you teach children who do not show up to school on a consistent basis.

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  61. Anonymous9:35 PM

    For once I agree with you. Everyone who complains about how easy teaching is , should do it for a year. I doubt many would make it the whole year.

    I am always amazed that NO ONE ever blames the administration for making poor decisions or for mishandling the money.

    Come everyone. If teaching is such a cake job...come do it.

    Ps. NCLB was a team effort between Bush and Kennedy. I hate it, but it is not all Bush's doing.

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  62. sunnyjane12:46 AM

    Every teacher I've ever talked to hates No Child Left Behind. In theory, it's noble. In practice, it stinks.

    Besides, what would a change in the union contract accomplish? If a child can't learn in six hours of school, what would twenty-five minutes more do for them? Unions don't make good teachers.

    I have no solutions, but it sounds like the school board should take a good look at this school and do more than just fire the teachers. What that would be, I don't know.

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  63. Anonymous11:32 AM

    The problem with NCLB is that it is applied everywhere, and it really should only be applied to very poor districts (whether urban or rural). I am not a teacher, but everybody else in my family is. Almost every post has some valid points, but we're really comparing apples and oranges. I cannot compare the district my sister's kids are in, which has 5 elementary schools, one middle school, and one high school, with the one my kids are in, which has 75 elementary schools, 20 middle schools, and 10 high schools. The problems are totally different, even though approximately the same percentage of children get free school lunch in her district as in mine. I think that the true story is too long and complicated for the national media and so they go with the "hook" that they know gets people all emotional. The firing of the teachers might have been union-busting, or the union might not have been negotiating in good faith. We won't know unless we hear more, and I think President Obama probably knows more about it than we do. I think he could have chosen a different way to talk about the situation, but I also wonder if we heard his whole statement. He likes to speak in paragraphs, and the media likes sentence fragments.

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  64. Anonymous12:18 PM

    PRIOR: Please stay out of arm's reach if you bitch about teachers in my presence.


    I can understand your feelings but question the wisdom of your position. I hope you don't complain about snake lawyers, arrogant doctors, and lousy parents.

    No one's profession, no matter how noble, is immune from scrutiny. In fact, the surest way to lose honor and integrity is to give someone, some group, a pass.

    I have teachers that I will to my dying day say little good about. You don't have to listen, but if the subject of education comes up, they may come up - and it wasn't just a bad apple. It was several bad apple + systemic problems - and teachers were in control of the system in this case.
    I also have teachers that I will bless and be forever grateful for.

    No one gets a pass because of what others have done - and that includes teachers.
    No profession gets a pass. Teachingis full of many dedicated, competent, honorable people and it has bad apples. An unwillingness to acknowledge that point protects the bad apples, not the profession, and not those who honorably serve.

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  65. Mac And Cheese Wiz7:25 PM

    I haven't read the comments, so please excuse me if someone else has said this.
    I'm not happy with the educational system in this country. We underpay our teachers, treat them like babysitters, and we underfund our schools to the point that many teachers have to use their own money for basic supplies.

    In Philadelphia, they privatized many public schools, have performance based pay scales that punish poor teachers and reward the good ones. While the results have somewhat improved, it's done little to help get the parents involved actively in their children's education.

    I've been to parent teacher conferences where nine other parents bothered to show up, in a class of 29 kids. The administration makes sure it's pockets get lined, and the teachers who do the bulk of the work, are frurstrated and blamed unfairly when things go wrong.

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  66. Gasman8:19 PM

    Anon @ 12:18,
    Did I say teachers get a pass? Hell no I didn't. I also have NOT denied the presence of bad apples within the profession. I do, however, deny that the profession harbors any greater percentage of bad apples than any other. I have worked alongside people who should not, and in most cases, did not, remain in the profession. However, we are talking about “group blame” as exemplified by the firing of ALL of the teachers at a given school. It is not credible to contend that they were ALL deserving of termination. This was about union busting, plain and simple.

    If you think that "teachers were in control of the system" you are gravely mistaken. Teachers control very little in the education system. In point of fact, teachers often have little or no say in how your children are educated. There autonomy extends basically only to classroom management. Everything else is the bailiwick of the school administration, the school board, or the state board of education. As a profession, teachers are among the most educated in our society, however, their pay does NOT reflect this. They also have an incredibly high burnout rate. Why? Because of that ridiculously low pay, arcane bureaucracy minutiae, and unwarranted, unfounded disrespect from the general public.

    Please don’t insinuate that I engage in similar behavior regarding other professions, for I assure you, I do not.

    Our society’s distrust of teachers is based upon NO objective fact, but upon conjecture, rumor, and unsubstantiated anecdotes. It is also the product of 40+ years of continuous disinformation from the GOP since at least Agnew. This is part of the GOP’s “pro-ignorance” campaign that has given us the teabaggers. It is nonsense. There is also a MAJOR dose of anti union animus which drives this misplaced antipathy toward teachers. If you have never needed union protection, good on ya’. I am a union member and I have directly benefited from my membership. I have worked as both union and non-union worker at the same place and the difference was startling. Non-union; forced unpaid overtime, 80-90 hour weeks, and unrelenting constant stress. Union; none of the above. Point of disclosure: my union is not in education.

    I guarantee you that I know and have interacted with more teachers than you have. For all but about five of my nearly 50 years, I have interacted with teachers as a student or as a colleague on a daily basis. Unless you are a teacher, I have a MUCH better handle on the state of the profession than you do. If you think that there are a higher percentage of bad apples in the teaching profession I will not so politely tell you “bullshit.” As I said earlier, as a profession, teachers are probably more dedicated than most because not a single public school teacher can say that they are in it simply for the money, because the money ain’t there. The teachers who manage to avoid burnout can withstand the idiocy handed down from on high, and can deal with the crappy pay are by and large doing the job because they love it and they love the students. This makes our society’s misplaced distrust of teachers all the more insulting.

    If you have direct, firsthand, concrete knowledge of a specific bad, incompetent, or unprofessional teacher, feel free to complain about THAT TEACHER. Do not extrapolate that beef to everyone in the profession. Painting all within a profession with a very broad brush is about as enlightened as claiming that all “Jews, blacks, French, or women” behave in a uniform manner, ‘cause they don’t all behave the same way.

    If you feel inclined to complain about “all teachers” having anything in common other than their profession, save us all the trouble and STFU.

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