The judge believes that it is a fallacy to say that the US treats suspects as innocent until proven guilty. "The government acts as if a defendant is guilty merely on the basis of an accusation," said Napolitano.
Nader was curious about how this applied to the Bush administration. "What about the more serious violations of habeas corpus," wondered Nader. "You know after 9/11 Bush rounded up thousands of them, Americans, many of them Muslim Americans or Arabic Americans and they were thrown in jail without charges. They didn't have lawyers. Some of them were pretty mistreated in New York City. You know they were all released eventually."
"Well that is so obviously a violation of the natural law, the natural right to be brought before a neutral arbiter within moments of the government taking your freedom away from you," answered Napolitano.
"So what President Bush did with the suspension of habeas corpus, with the whole concept of Guantanamo Bay, with the whole idea that he could avoid and evade federal laws, treaties, federal judges and the Constitution was blatantly unconstitutional and is some cases criminal," he continued.
"What should be the sanctions [for Bush and Cheney]?" asked Nader.
"They should have been indicted. They absolutely should have been indicted for torturing, for spying, for arresting without warrant," said Napolitano.
First O'Reilly embarrasses the shit out of Sarah Palin, and now Nepolitano wants George Bush and Dick Cheney to be indicted. Is this some lame attempt by Fox News to trick me into watching their programming?
You know what?. If Fox News actually starts a campaign to have George Bush indicted and then peppers Sarah Palin with gotcha questions until she storms off of the set then they will have themselves a deal!
Well for one day anyhow. And not Glenn Beck's show. The only way I will watch that show is if he sets himself on fire.
Wow! I wish our current DOJ had the balls to do just that: indict Bush, Cheney and everyone responsible for those crimes.
ReplyDeleteI greatly admire President Obama, but this is one of the few issues I think he is off-base on: letting Bush-Cheney et al get off because one of these days there will be another team of miscreants like them in charge and because no one went after Bush-Cheney, they will repeat the offenses and perhaps go even further.
The first team I think of is Palin and whoever is stupid enough to play second-banana to her. Can you imagine the terror she would spread amongst Americans? Gees the stuff nightmares are made of - all because she doesn't give a rat's a$$ about law or history - only revenge.
Okay, Glenn Beck ablaze just made my night.
ReplyDeleteBut because I'm a non- violent liberal there would have to be a bucket of kerose--water near by to put him out.
Goodnight Gryphen!
anon@ 7:08, as much as i hate to even think it, i respect bush more than palin.
ReplyDeletei remember how she ignored the plight of those starving, freezing babies in the Villages... until it was a good enough photo op for her. and the cookies! wow, that was a single finger salute if i ever saw one.
i remember the whole petty mess about replacing kim elton, the state senator from juneau.
how she's neglected her kids, esp the little one. that pic of trigg in dallas for the book signing. i live here and it was COLD that day.
how she's still plugging for money for "attorney" fees when she's made 10 to 12 million... from folks who really can't spare it. when you really can't spare it.
the really ugly look on her face during the election. no one else ever wore that kind of hate so openly.
she's like a fake benny hinn, but evil.
I'll watch Beck if he agrees to debate Palin on THE ISSUES. That is must-see TV.
ReplyDeleteBush-Cheney should have been tried for war crimes already.
Remember Commides in "The Gladiator", what his father, the Emperor, said of his own son?
"Commides is not a moral man. He can not rule. He must not rule."
Neither should Palin - she is a craven lunatic. Putting her in charge of anything is a disaster for everyone.
I'm not trying to be annoying about this, Gryphen, but those right wing ads that are being inserted into your blog are just terrible. Has someone hacked you somehow? They are ads "by Google", but they are all rabid anti-homosexual, anti-Obama, how to scam social security "before it runs out" and more. Am I the only one getting these disgusting things? Somebody must be laughing like crazy that they got these on your blog. It's gross!
ReplyDeleteThis has always been my greatest disappointment of President Obama. He has had many accomplishments and unfortunately has been unable to get that message out - the Democrats have always had difficulty with message - but his attitude that we should not look back but move forward is simply wrong.
ReplyDeleteHe claims that this is what we want, that anything else would be too divisive. How could anything be more divisive than what we've had since his inauguration? Does he not remember Watergate? Clinton? By allowing Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld to remain unaccountable, he says that anyone above a certain level of government is above the law. What is truly sad, is that as President, he should have nothing to say about it. It is a strictly DOJ matter that he should not have involved himself in from a Constitutional standpoint. Sigh.
I don't find this exchange unusual at all. It certainly would not have happened while Bush was in office, when it mattered.
ReplyDeleteI think the republican party (aka FOX NEWS) is eager to distance themselves from Bush. They can't make a 180 overnight, they have to give viewers time to forget their original narrative: George Bush is an infallible deity. I wouldn't be surprised to see Steve and Gretchen comparing Bush to Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot in the not too distant future.
Anon at 9:50 - that's a really interesting theory. Vilify Bush so the current crop of "common sense conservatives" seem somehow more appealing. Hmm.
ReplyDeleteWow.
ReplyDeleteTwo points....
#1. I can't believe that blowhard actually said that. Wow.
#2. I wouldn't watch Beck under ANY circumstances. That man is beyond and idiot.
move along folks move along. The constitution has left the building move along folks.
ReplyDeleteJust read this in the morning paper- Sarah Palin's political action comittee doc hints former Alaska Gov. may be prepping 2012 campaign
ReplyDeleteRead more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2010/07/13/2010-07-13_sarah_palins_political_action_comittee_filing_hints_former_alaska_gov_may_be_run.html#
People, please help me out here to get the REAL word about Sarah out to the public. Log-in and leave a comment and straighten these idiots out.
I have e-mailed this story to Gryphen and I hope he starts a separate thread on this.
Many posters here are much more eloquent than I am, and know much more of the history of SP, the BAD history that the world needs to know.
Thank you.
I agree with Kyra.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with a lot of views Judge Napolitano has but I used to listen to a radio program on the way to work that he was on. I think it was called The Judge or that is the way they introduced him, anyway, it was around the time they were passing The Patriot Act and he was livid about it. He really does believe what he believes, he doesn't change positions every other day.
ReplyDeleteLike I said, I don't agree with most of his views but I respect the fact that he stands by what he believes and that is that. Hard to find on TV and in politics these days.
"If they weren't guilty, they wouldn't be suspects."
ReplyDelete- Edwin Meese
Why in the fucking hell didn't Napolitano say this in 2004?
ReplyDeleteI want Bush and Cheney et al prosecuted, but imagine what the GOP would do if we did that? Shut down the Gov is what they would do. NOTHING would get done, this would take all the air out of the room, they would let nothing else happen and the delays and court fights over exec privilege.....but if i were Obama I would do this in the second term and live with the crap. War Crimes can not go unpunished forever.
ReplyDeleteGryphen -
ReplyDeleteI personally like Judge Napolitano; you should read his book. He is a scathing critic of GWB and Darth Vader. He is also a Libertarian, something personally near and dear to my heart. I'm no Faux news fan myself, but I appreciate their having Napolitano on the air, whatever their other faults.
I would gently urge you to consider something. When I was in college, I struggled with developing a personal philosophy. I eventually came up with the following: I don't care WHO is right; I want to know WHAT is right. I may personally dislike someone, but it is a matter of honor to acknowledge points well-made. If the facts change, my opinion changes.
This way you never get caught up in defending idealogical arguments that make no sense. As a bonus, there is nothing to raise your credibility like looking someone in the eye and saying, "I never thought of it that way. I think you may be right."
Try it; you'll like it.
Jim
Buffalo, the full link is:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2010/07/13/2010-07-13_sarah_palins_political_action_comittee_filing_hints_former_alaska_gov_may_be_run.html
I skimmed Napolitano's recent book, and it seemed to be written by somebody who had some misguided conservative/libertarian principles which he believed in strongly and tried to apply consistently, rather than somebody who was trying to justify anything that favored the right wing. So it wouldn't surprise me that the author of that book would say something like that. I'm a little surprised that that person would be on Fox news (I've never seen him on Fox, because I virtually never watch Fox), but perhaps his TV persona is different from his author persona, and on this occasion he slipped and let his author persona show on TV.
ReplyDelete"Why did a flurry of blue blogs all of a sudden jump on a story that was old news? It seems Judge Andrew Napolitano, FNC’s Senior Judicial Analyst, opined that Bush and Cheney should have been indicted. This immediately spread all over the interwebs. Why? Because Think Progress [mentioned]* it, and the echo chamber sticks together. Here are some of the gems we spotted:"
ReplyDelete* http://thinkprogress.org/2010/07/12/napolitano-bush-indict/
"Where to begin? His contract is over? He’s going to be fired? On the contrary, Judge Nap’s role at Fox is growing. He is their Senior Judicial Analyst. In addition to providing analysis on programming throughout the broadcast day, he has just finished a multi-year run co-hosting three hours of radio a day. The Judge just began his [new program]* on Fox Business Network, which immediately zoomed to #1 on the FBN ratings chart. Plus he continues to serve as substitute host on Glenn Beck and other programs."
* http://www.foxbusiness.com/on-air/freedom-watch/
"And then there’s the claim that he’s a “reliable right wing source”, which newshound Priscilla parroted from Think Progress. This is either rampant ignorance on her part, or deliberate dishonesty (and since this is Prissy it could go either way). Here are a few examples of the “reliable right wing” positions of Judge Andrew Napolitano:"
---
Judge Nap on Gitmo.
http://homepage.mac.com/mkoldys/iblog/C168863457/E20060629160606/index.html
Judge Nap on domestic spying.
http://homepage.mac.com/mkoldys/iblog/C168863457/E20070105154214/index.html
Judge Nap on The Patriot Act.
http://homepage.mac.com/mkoldys/iblog/C168863457/E242992868/index.html
Judge Nap on gay marriage.
http://homepage.mac.com/mkoldys/iblog/C168863457/E20060605130653/index.html
Judge Nap on torture.
http://video.foxnews.com/v/video-embed.html?video_id=3929135&w=600&h=374
Judge Nap on executive authority.
http://homepage.mac.com/mkoldys/iblog/C168863457/E20070730113825/index.html
Judge Nap on George Bush.
http://homepage.mac.com/mkoldys/iblog/C168863457/E20071031200132/index.html
Judge Nap on the arrest of Prof Gates.
http://video.foxnews.com/v/video-embed.html?video_id=3936968&w=600&h=374
Judge Nap on Alberto Gonzales.
http://homepage.mac.com/mkoldys/iblog/C168863457/E20070827112647/index.html
Judge Nap on FISA.
http://homepage.mac.com/mkoldys/iblog/C168863457/E20070119113951/index.html
Judge Nap on the Arizona immigration law
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqe-J2S3esw
Judge Nap on enemy combatants.
http://homepage.mac.com/mkoldys/iblog/C168863457/E20070612102534/index.html
Judge Nap on Sarah Palin.
http://homepage.mac.com/mkoldys/blog/tdo242065315.html
---
"Those are some “reliable right wing” positions, aren’t they? Now we said from the get-go that Napolitano’s position on George Bush was old news, and it is. Here is The Judge [in 2005]* arguing that George Bush broke the law. Here he is [last year]** making the case to indict George Bush. And what happened to the Judge after speaking out? He didn’t apologize. He wasn’t yanked off the air. He didn’t get fired. They gave him his own show! So much for the dunderheads who insisted he’d never say this stuff on Fox."
* http://homepage.mac.com/mkoldys/iblog/C168863457/E20051218212054/index.html
** http://video.foxnews.com/v/video-embed.html?video_id=3930195&w=600&h=374
***
J$P: FOX Haters Week in Review!
http://johnnydollar.us/files/100718fhwir.php