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I was very much hoping this kind of crap would stop once George Bush was out of office.
There is simply no excuse for this in our modern day military.
Or in any other place except where you choose worship for that matter.
I am very glad that Mikey Weinstein is on the case.
Wow. Thanks for posting this, Gryphen. And also, WTF? Who stole my country?
ReplyDeleteI guess the implication is that you must be "spiritually fit" to kill your fellow man.
ReplyDeleteWe can draw the conclusion that the religious are the only ones predisposed to fighting unjust wars in an unquestioning manner.
What most of us who think rationally do not understand that this goal of a Christianist military is a long term one.
ReplyDeleteWhen one thinks about the fact that the monotheistic religions are by their very nature paternalistic and autocratic, one begins to understand how this mindset has always been there... YESSSIR!!!
Gryph: I tried not to post as anon, but it took me three tries before it told me that it had been accepted for approval. Sorry if it shows up more than once. As they say, blurbs happen...
ReplyDeleteholy cow! This insanity must stop.
ReplyDeleteWell, from a Christian perspective, being willing to kill your fellow man means you aren't walking the talk. Some modern day leaders have to sideline this inconvenient truth, unfortunately.
ReplyDeleteOnly Quakers and Christian Conscientious Objectors have this one right, in terms of that particular spiritual context.
Separation of Church and State, now and forever.
If only this were a Christian country.
ReplyDeleteI am starting a new group:
Atheists for Jesus.
The more I see the more I think this guy is pretty great. Too bad Christians have abandoned him for their version of some mean Free Market God.
"Atheists for Jesus", I could get behind that (as long as you let agnostics in, too).
ReplyDeleteWell heck yeah - (Athesists for Jesus) Looks like you've got yourself a trinity - at least in congregants.
ReplyDelete4:11 - loved what you said:
ReplyDelete"We can draw the conclusion that the religious are the only ones predisposed to fighting unjust wars in an unquestioning manner."
Bears repeating. Hope you don't mind. It was (and is) a great statement.
When I say separation of Church and State, that's what I am referring to. We are a diverse nation.
ReplyDeleteI am simply stating that if the far Right fundamentalists are behind the 'spirituality' test, they are hypocrites in terms of their own faith.
The reality is that statistically speaking, there are more Christians in this country than any other denomination, as much as that galls those who resent Christianity in general.
Yep, Atheists and Agnostics for Jesus sounds like a great group to start because someone has to adopt the poor fellow as the fundamentalists/dominionists, the Christian Abundance (materialists) have all abandoned him.
ReplyDeleteIt's been my experience that non-Christians often follow the percepts of Jesus more closely and better than those who most loudly proclaim their religiousity.
Thank goodness for Weinstein and his organization. BTW, he has several sons - most, if not all, have been or are active military.
Leah Burton of God's Own Party is also affiliated & working hard for Mikey's organization.
ReplyDeleteThese fundamentalists have been actively working toward their "Christian" military for a long time. They've gotten such a toehold in the upper ranks that they're becoming more & more blatant about it. They need to be stopped NOW before it goes any further.
This is the reason my bright, hard-working sons are being advised to stay clear of the military academies.
ReplyDeleteA friend's son was locked in his room at Air Force because he wouldn't sign on with a religious group that purported to have the one-true God. Fortunately, the Lutheran chaplain blew the whistle on this group, but that didn't cure the fact that he had been locked in his room.
He kept his cool, finished the semester and asked to be released. The Air Force did it and financed the rest of his education.
You would think these zealous nuts would take a look at the extremists in Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and see what this kind of behavior begets. None so blind as those who will not see!
I read the HP story on this. By the time the military got through all their disclaimers: its not really a test, we don't grade it, its comfidential, they don't have to take the follow-up, etc.,etc., I noted that there seemed to be no reason to give the darn thing in the first place. I agree with everyone saying its a foot in the door for the far right christians. IMHO, it is clearly unconstitutional and I welcome all who are pushing back. This has to STOP!
ReplyDeleteSo you have to be spiritual to go out and kill men women and children, huh? Brilliant!
ReplyDeleteAnd here I thought it was the godless atheists who were natural born killers with no conscience. Go figure.
You can thank the Bush/Cheney regime for this. But why isn't the Obama administration getting rid of this crap?
Rick
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_L._Weinstein
ReplyDeleteMichael l. Weinstein
"Michael L. "Mikey" Weinstein is an attorney, businessman and former Air Force officer. He is founder and president of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF) and author of With God on Our Side: One Man's War Against an Evangelical Coup in America's Military in which he describes his fight against alleged coercive evangelistic practices by some members of the military.
Weinstein graduated from the United States Air Force Academy in 1977 and later served as a Judge Advocate General (JAG) for ten years. He also spent over three years in the West Wing of the Reagan White House as legal counsel in the White House. In his final position there, Weinstein was named the Committee Management Officer of the much-publicized Iran-Contra Investigation in his capacity as Assistant General Counsel of The White House Office of Administration, Executive Office of the President of the United States."
That is an example of real service. That is an example or real credentials.
First the "Jesus Rifles" and now this.
ReplyDeleteMaybe someone thought the REAL problem with the Jesus Rifles was that there were complaints from 'non- believers'.
Chris Rodda Good Riddance to 'Jesus Rifles'
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-rodda/good-riddance-to-jesus-ri_b_434657.html
"If only this were a Christian country.
ReplyDeleteI am starting a new group:
Atheists for Jesus.
The more I see the more I think this guy is pretty great. Too bad Christians have abandoned him for their version of some mean Free Market God."
Please realize not all Christians have done this. I consider myself one but I want to join your group. Makes more sense to me that the co-opters.
My brother-in-law recently arrived in Iraq to supposedly help send the troops home. He's a career National Guard, in his 50s. I don't think he signed up for this but he's trying to make the best of it. I have had some kind of strange hits from him since he got there. He talks a lot about going to church but I don't think he's necessarily into it. This might explain a lot. Now what to say to him. Or not.
ReplyDeleteThanks for this information. I for one will make ongoing effort to support Wein$tein.
ReplyDeleteThe insanity of the xstian community is beyond the pale. Cult better describes the members of the fundamental movement.
There are all manner of religions and I am aware of no one who has died, returned and shared information about what their "god" provided after death for them.
Stupidity reigns supreme and people who themselves are guided by, and indoctrinate their children in xtian tenets from the bible clearly do not understand that the old testament is the filthiest book ever written.
Want to read porno? Check out the old testament. Want to paralyze yourself with fear about the "end times?" Read the bible.
Bill Moyers did the piece on the similarities of all religions. Who is to say who is right?
People are seekers and it just happens that some have landed on the "biblical" path.
Read the "Agony and the Ecstasy" which is a translation from Michelangelo's own manuscripts, and then tell me how religious the catholic cardinals were since the newly minted cardinal title was a way for the catholic church to raise much needed money by installing those wealthy enough to buy their way into a cardinal position.
The pedophile situation in the catholic church is no where near addressed or ready to be halted by the powers that be in that institution. But thousands still gather at the vatican to hear the pope who had access to all the moving around of "errant" priests during the last pope's tenure.
My personal take on the sudden "sainting" of paul soon after his death was to get him "sainted" before all the scut about the pedophile priests came to the public's attention, and certainly before it came out that the present pope was the handler of the paperwork on all the moving around of the priests, and was responsible for sharing that info with pope paul.
Suckered, yet again, eh what?
Blind faith and militaristic strong-arming to "change" people's thinking is a very sick and nazi approach to end civilization and democracy as we have known it.
Be vigilant and be on guard for the future of our own welfare in what appears to be yet another religious war on the horizon, right here in our own military.
Witness the late breaking news on the vile film ridiculing others unlike themselves on the navy ship. Despicable, hate-filled trash! Is that the xtian demeanor soldiers are supposed to exhibit - hate all those who do not believe, profess, follow your thinking?
Did those sailors participate in the spiritual test to prove their actions were acceptable:^)
Do your own questing. Seek real answers, not stories written years after events by someone who never personally knew the characters they are writing about. Be informed, and open,it is our only defense. And the time is NOW, not after we have been totally had.
Having the religious conservatives turn the military into a holy army out to kill and destroy any non Christian nation or faith or politician is extremely scarey. That the Republicans support and embrace the ultra right that think this way is even scarier.
ReplyDeleteHolier than thous who are heavily armed are the most dangerous people on earth, regardless of their faith. They kill, destroy, rape and torture without conscious.
I have seen articles about this problem for several years, glad to see it coming out of the closet and into the courts.
Thanks for this information. I for one will make ongoing effort to support Wein$tein.
ReplyDeleteThe insanity of the xstian community is beyond the pale. Cult better describes the members of the fundamental movement.
There are all manner of religions and I am aware of no one who has died, returned and shared information about what their "god" provided after death for them.
Stupidity reigns supreme and people who themselves are guided by, and indoctrinate their children in xtian tenets from the bible clearly do not understand that the old testament is the filthiest book ever written.
Want to read porno? Check out the old testament. Want to paralyze yourself with fear about the "end times?" Read the bible.
Bill Moyers did the piece on the similarities of all religions. Who is to say who is right?
People are seekers and it just happens that some have landed on the "biblical" path.
Read the "Agony and the Ecstasy" which is a translation from Michelangelo's own manuscripts, and then tell me how religious the catholic cardinals were since the newly minted cardinal title was a way for the catholic church to raise much needed money by installing those wealthy enough to buy their way into a cardinal position.
The pedophile situation in the catholic church is no where near addressed or ready to be halted by the powers that be in that institution. But thousands still gather at the vatican to hear the pope who had access to all the moving around of "errant" priests during the last pope's tenure.
My personal take on the sudden "sainting" of paul soon after his death was to get him "sainted" before all the scut about the pedophile priests came to the public's attention, and certainly before it came out that the present pope was the handler of the paperwork on all the moving around of the priests, and was responsible for sharing that info with pope paul.
Suckered, yet again, eh what?
Blind faith and militaristic strong-arming to "change" people's thinking is a very sick and nazi approach to end civilization and democracy as we have known it.
Be vigilant and be on guard for the future of our own welfare in what appears to be yet another religious war on the horizon, right here in our own military.
Witness the late breaking news on the vile film ridiculing others unlike themselves on the navy ship. Despicable, hate-filled trash! Is that the xtian demeanor soldiers are supposed to exhibit - hate all those who do not believe, profess, follow your thinking?
Did those sailors participate in the spiritual test to prove their actions were acceptable:^)
Do your own questing. Seek real answers, not stories written years after events by someone who never personally knew the characters they are writing about. Be informed, and open,it is our only defense. And the time is NOW, not after we have been totally had.
"There is simply no excuse for this in our modern day military."
ReplyDeleteBingo! I hope there are enough good officers to replace the offending ones whose allegiance is not to protect the U.S..
There was another shocking story a few months ago about a group of soldiers in VA who were all but forced to attend an evangelical Christian concert. The group was marched in formation to the concert from the mess hall so there was no opportunity to inconspicuously leave. Anyone refusing to go to the concert was locked down in the barracks and forced to clean.
ReplyDeleteThis 'Spiritual Fitness Concert Series' is not organized by the chaplains, but by the Commanding Generals and the headline acts can cost $30,000 to $100,000...and are paid by the Department of Defense!
The MRFF received complaints from several of the soldiers involved and is representing them.
http://www.talk2action.org/story/2010/8/19/113223/843
"You would think these zealous nuts would take a look at the extremists in Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and see what this kind of behavior begets"
ReplyDeleteThat's because their common religion is fundamentalism. Christianity or Islam is just a petty detail. That's why their behaviors mirror one another.
Atheists for Jesus
ReplyDelete...amen, brother.
I think we're the only ones left that are NOT willing to kill or otherwise abuse our fellow human beings in the name of some made-up nonsense.
"Religious faith" is just another way of saying "abandonment of reason."