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I don't know if I have mentioned this before, but personally I hate guns.
I just fucking hate them!
When I was a kid, like most of the children of my generation, I watched a LOT of westerns. But for me the gun was never really a glamorous idea.
I just felt they were what weak people used to make themselves feel powerful.
But the ability to end a life is not what makes us powerful.
It is the ability to create and to nurture that truly defines our humanity and therefore our power.
Every creature both big and small knows how to fight, and to kill. But to truly embody what it is to be human, to be the most powerful creature on the planet, we must instead learn to put the needs of others before our own, and to love in the face of hate, and teach in the face of ignorance.
We will always struggle with our primitive natures, but to be human is to have the choice to rise above our instincts, and to allow reason to guide our actions.
I'm a faithful lurker, but needed to respond.
ReplyDeleteWow, just wow...
Beautifully said, point clearly made...
Thank you!
Well said. To me, your words are "straight from the Bible" because I believe that is how we are supposed to live our lives.
ReplyDelete$%&*#!! What is it with this country and guns??
ReplyDeleteWE should take the lead from other countries that have long histories of hunting and still allow "hunt" guns and outlaw everything else.
The statistics about accidental and intentional deaths due to guns are strongly related to a countries guns laws.
This should have been a no-brainer like seat belts and hands-free laws for driving (although I know not very state has jumped on that, sadly it's just a matter of time and more deaths/injuries).
Using the right to bear arms from the constitution, in my book, is like following all the guidelines in the Bible/Koran/Torah that no longer apply to today.
Gryphen, this was a beautiful post filled with profound truth. Thank you. - ks sunflower
ReplyDeleteBeautifully said, Gryphen.
ReplyDeleteWow - just perfect.
ReplyDeleteT
Beautiful sentiment Gryphen.
ReplyDeleteI've always hated guns. That we live in a gun culture is no surprise, but it doesn't make me feel better or safer. I guess we can ask people in shooting zones who have to put their children in the bathtub, to sleep, if they feel better about easy access to guns.
I don't think the big NRA supporters live in the inner city---so they don't really care about the loss of life
due to handgun violence etc. there.
I live in a state that passed a concealed carry ordinance in the dead of night. We all woke up to that nonsense. I will not go to businesses that allow weapons (the owner can post a no gun sticker on the door).
Insanity.
Beautifully said! I concur. The irony that your words reflect a true pro-life position while the "pro-lifers" are doubling down on their rhetoric does not escape me.
ReplyDeleteI don't have a problem with hunting rifles or shotguns in the hands of properly educated people. But I have never believed that there is a place in our society for handguns or automatic weapons. They have only one purpose, to kill PEOPLE. That is unacceptable. And extended clips should never have been allowed to be in our country. Again, only one purpose, to kill LOTS of people.
ReplyDeleteAnd to be human means to have the ability to feel compassion for others and not just passion for our beliefs.
ReplyDeleteBeautiful. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteI do not like guns either. Law protection officials deal with a specific element of society and need physical protection of a gun.
ReplyDeleteI connect guns with physical intimidation, possibly as a tool to terroize a party into submission, intent to murder or maim and to dominate.
In the big political picture I receive emails and requests to register people to vote, campaign on the party platform and to VOTE.
I hear from the extremist right wing to grab your arms, reload in consistent messsages based in physical power and violence to rally and prepare for civil war to 'take their country back" Palin and others beat a steady drum THEY are going to take away all your rights: have you shut up, take your guns, disallow prayer, withold health care and even murder your babies and elderly parents and brainwashing to only listen to Palin and Beck for they are the saviors of the coming communist/Nazi society THEY seek to transform the country to.
Now, SHE is going to take away your desserts and take over control of what your children eat!!!
I can comprehend how people are sucked into the rhetoric targeted to incite them appealing to and using guns as the means of defense in justification to prepare and defend rights fed poison THEY (those people) are out to destroy and weaken this country.
I know of, you do as other people do there have been increasing groups meeting acting out as if Palin's rhetoric is factual truth. I have stood with people shaking verbalizing their terror of the communism coming where people will be jailed, beaten and tortured for speaking out. There are heros i.e. people who will risk their lives to defend and protect their fellowman conned of the psychodrama to demonize, distort and destroy others only so Palin, Beck and their ilk regain power and make money. The travesty is they are also conned Palin and her ilk are devoted to them. They are merely using them.Violence, threats,actual murder is but a means to their end.
Europeans would have a good laugh hearing our dimwitted, reactionary hillbillies argue that more guns mean more safety.
ReplyDeleteIt's not surprising that many Europeans are not fully convinced that we're particularly bright.
I don't get this gun culture either, specially the need to own semi automatic or assault rifles. Hunting for food is one thing but this wild west mentality escapes me.
ReplyDeleteDo you hate cars? They kill more people in the US every year than guns.
ReplyDeleteHow about alcohol? it ruins way more lives than any other substance known to man.
Or cigarettes?
All except guns are pictured as glamorous on TV. Something cool people do. Some shows glamorize gun misuse too. I hate the people that make those shows and movies that do to.
Maybe it's better to hate assholes who misuse these things.
Rick
Here in Canada, it's very difficult to get a gun.
ReplyDeleteAnd I'm glad it is.
I grew up in a household that had guns. I was taught to use them. I now live in a household that has so many hand guns, shot guns, semi automatics, that I do not know how many are in the gun safe. They belong to my spouse who decided gun collecting was fun. He no longer collects or shoots any of them. I have not shot a gun in over 20 years - since I became a mother. Guns make me very uncomfortable now. I have wished they were no longer in my home for quite awhile. Selling them could possibly put them in the hands of a nut. Turning them in to law enforcement would not go over so good with the spouse. So, they remain in a locked safe.
ReplyDeleteI really am enjoying your words, Gryphen. Thank you.
Law enforcement officers undergo thorough psychological screening before being accepted into police academy programs. They then go through extensive training, usually 6-9 months long, in order to make the best decisions about if and how to use their weapons under chaotic and dangerous circumstances. They have very specific and strict regulations about when they are even allowed to draw their weapon, and under what circumstances they may even consider using them. After graduating from the academy, they are then required to train under an experienced officer for several more months. They are required to complete many hours of target practice during their career. They still sometimes make mistakes and kill the wrong people.
ReplyDeleteIn Arizona, concealed weapon permit holders are exempt from the federal background check requirement when purchasing a handgun. There is no waiting period for purchasing a gun and the required safety course (for the initial permit) is only 8 hours long. They are NOT trained in how to quickly determine if a person holding a gun is actually a threat and have no guidelines that govern how they use their weapons in a crowd, where innocent people may be caught in the crossfire. They are NOT required to complete any hours of target practice.
So, tell me how more guns in the hands of private owners in a panicking crowd where no one knows exactly who is shooting is a GOOD thing???
It seems to escape Rep Trent Franks that the heroes in this tragedy who disarmed the gunman, were unarmed and themselves wounded, while the trained, armed guy was not able to prevent it and in fact almost shot one of the unarmed people who stopped the gunman from reloading.
ReplyDeleteA problem that police have when addressing incidents like this is their ability in an instant to determine the good guys from the bad guys. One easy way is usually to look at who is shooting and who is being shot. If everyone is armed and shooting at everyone else, how exactly is anyone to know who is the deranged one who needs to be stopped?
So in this instance, the unarmed were able to stop the tragedy from getting worse. The armed bystander could do nothing. Rep Franks says he wished there had been "one more gun". One more gun would have meant one more person would have had to judge whether to shoot the perpetrator or the unarmed heroes, and that armed person might not have been lucky enough to hold back, and things could have been a lot worse.
How about if there instead had been one less gun? If Jared Lee Loughner had been unarmed, we wouldn't be discussing this today.
@Rick
ReplyDeleteI love this blog, and your comments are always enlightening. This morning though, I was a little surprised.
I dont hate cars. It seems to me, that there are laws..rules..concerning cars, who drives them, and under what conditions.
I have hesitated to comment recently, because of the horrific happenings, and because I am Canadian. I didnt feel it was necessary to regale you all, with the differences in our laws. Most Americans know we have gun control, and many times I have been told...Canada is Socialist....Canada is weak...yada yada yada.
I dont have all the stats, but I do know that per capita, Canadians own more guns, yet gun deaths are nowhere near that of the states.
To carry a weapon, in an open fashion or concealed, would be unthinkable for the average person in this country. There is no need to "pack heat" in the Canadian psyche.
Rick @ 6:21:
ReplyDeleteThe primary function of cars, alcohol and cigarettes is not to kill. A baseball bat can also be used to kill but that is not what it is created to do. A glass window or a pencil or a scarf or even a stuffed teddy bear can kill under certain circumstances, but that is NOT their intended purpose.
A gun is created with the specific purpose of killing.
More guns = more people likely to be hurt or killed by intent or accident.
A very appropriate post, especially at this time. I've never understood the hypocrisy between the right wing "Christians" and their pro-guns, pro-death penalty and their fierce pro-life stance. I don't have a problem with hunting or even owning a gun for safety reasons. However, there is no reason for a clip to hold enough ammunition to fire 31 rounds at a time. Why can't these people see there is no NEED for something like that among the general public. If Loughner hadn't had access to those extended ammunition clips, far fewer people would have been killed or wounded. How can anyone not see that as the goal? Nobody is trying to take away all their guns or stop the hunters from their sport. What I'd like to see is these concealed carry laws done away with. When I read that you can carry a gun anywhere including bars, I was mystified by whoever made that decision. Alcohol and guns, what a "brilliant move" that was! Of course, Palin is all for them, although it's too bad she can't even load her own rifle! The loophole that allows guns to be sold at shows without a background check has to be done away with, too. We should all be contacting our reps in Congress by email and phone and overwhelm them. The phone calls really do it because they all have voice mail and we can clog up their voice mail boxes in no time at all!
ReplyDeleteAs usual, follow the money. Behind the scenes the biggest supporters on the NRA and biggest lobbiests against rational gun controls are Colt, Remington, etc.
ReplyDeleteAlso, too, it's no coincidence that the guys who are so pro-gun are the primary market for viagra ...
I learned how to handle a shotgun before I learned how to ride a bike.
ReplyDeleteGreat posts by both Rick and Anon@6:58.
MSN is reporting that Jared Loughner posed for pictures wearing nothing but a red G-string and holding his Glock the night before the shooting.
ReplyDeleteI wonder who he had in mind when he took those pictures?
If you are against guns, you are for re-introducing predators because the wildlife population balance has been destroyed by humans. Deer herds without predators (human or wild) become sick and starving. The herd must be culled to keep it healthy.
ReplyDeleteIs there any rationale for some other scenarios, say giving a mentally unbalanced person an assault weapon? Absolutely NOT! But the NRA lobby has so cowed the US Congress that even a whiff of anti-gun sentinment guaruntees a loss at the polls.
The NRA is a criminally insane enterprise. It must be confronted the same way Senator Joe McCarthy was brought down. Only then can the United States have a reasonable discussion of how to achieve physical safety for citizens.
My SINGLE question to every politician right down to the city council level is
"Do you support the current guns for lunatics laws?"
I connect guns with physical intimidation, possibly as a tool to terroize a party into submission, intent to murder or maim and to dominate.
ReplyDeleteThat is what guns have come to symbolize in our culture. The authentic hunters are not what we see on film and they are not what programs our children (video games). We do not value language and diplomatic persuasion. It is taught that the one with the biggest gun wins.
The lobbyist run our Government. Who has the most power? Who is structuring our language?
There are those that want and plan for violent civil unrest. They do believe it is their only way to overcome their perceived tyranny. Is it the Oath Keepers? People in the military, police force and other positions that are preparing to be on the forefront of a civil war a Coup d'état? They are taught gun safety, that won't matter if they think they have to take out their idea of a traitor.
I don't get this gun culture either, specially the need to own semi automatic or assault rifles.
It is not just a gun culture, it is not only guns and rifles. They are talking about some damn serious weapons that are meant for war. When we do something about the lobbyists that have convinced us that the majority of Americans want no regulations when it comes to weapons we might make a change. Think about it, if the gun lobbyists decided to convince legislators that hunters and sportsman needed a drone to hunt and be a sportsman, drones would be part of the gun culture that is actually a weapon culture. Today there are a lot of lazy trophy "hunters" that do those Cheney/Palin type "hunts." How did the lines get so blurred between the authentic and the fakes? Hunters don't need weapons to feed their families, they need a reasonable firearm.
My ex-husband had guns. And he was/is an alcoholic. I F...ing hate them, too.
ReplyDeleteI grew up with guns. I did like to target practice and shoot bottles. My father would go hunting and he taught respect and gun safety.
ReplyDeleteAt a very young age I was devastated by Bambi. To this day I can recall non stop crying and my parents concern that I was taking it so hard. Also, my father brought home deers and they hung from our trees, in the very back yard where we played Cowboys and Indians and had play shoot outs. I could never play the Cowboy because of the gun. The Indians bow and arrow seemed removed from the carnage. As an adult my perspective has changed but I don't care for the gun imagery that has been inflicted on us. Now it is clear that it is killing innocent people in our malls.
It is time for a new look at what we are doing to ourselves. Guns are man made and at our discretion. They are also a symbol of our fear and feeling of impotence. I hope that more people will be able to see that is what they cling to when they defend the current gun situation. I believe most Americans are moderate and reasonable when it comes to guns. No one is saying guns are bad and no one can have them. We would like a reasonable discussion and for those with out of control fear to address that issue in a way that does not put others in cross hairs or the path of an assassins semi-automatic.
Amendment 2
ReplyDelete"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
The Second Amendment groupies simply refuse to deal with the first 13 words. It is a dependent clause and if the situation it describes is no longer applicable, the second half is rendered moot. The second half is wholly dependent upon the first. The second half cannot exist without the first 13 words.
Madison was smart enough that had he intended for us to have absolutely unrestricted access to guns under any and all circumstances, he surely would have said so succinctly without any qualifications or ambiguity. He did not. The amendment contains a very narrowly focused dependent clause which proceeds the second half.
We must force the gun nuts to confront that inconvenient truth contained in the first 13 words of the amendment.
Why does Jared Loughner's "right" to buy a gun - with no restrictions whatsoever - outweigh Christina Taylor Green's right to life? My guess is that once Christina ceased being a fetus, she no longer was accorded preferential status from the conservatives.
"Europeans would have a good laugh hearing our dimwitted, reactionary hillbillies argue that more guns mean more safety. It's not surprising that many Europeans are not fully convinced that we're particularly bright."
ReplyDelete...many of Canadians feel the same way...
I am a gun owner who likes to target shoot and have found pistols particularly challenging, which is why I bought it in the first place. I don't carry a pistol and really have no reason to think I should. When children were in the house, the gun was in my bedroon and if I had any ammunition, it was in the locked glove box of my car, separated it from the gun.
ReplyDeleteAfter saying all that, I believe if there were more guns at the scene it would have caused even more damage. The easeist way to view it is a circular firing squad. Bullets pass through people and can still do fatal harm to others.
I'm all for outlawing extended magazines and can find no practical use for them besides causing more deaths. The only argument I heard in "favor" of them was so you wouldn't have to reload as often when target practising. That is absolutly rediculous. When you target shoot, a gun with an extended clip adds a lot more weight to the gun and sets the balance off between the first round and the last. Currently, the largest number of rounds manufactures include with their guns is 7 rounds. If his gun only had 7 rounds, he would've had to stop and reload a lot sooner than he did, allowing others to pull him down, like what happened in this case.
Gasman said...
ReplyDeleteAmendment 2
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"The Second Amendment groupies simply refuse to deal with the first 13 words. It is a dependent clause and if the situation it describes is no longer applicable, the second half is rendered moot."
Sorry, but I have to disagree with you Gasman. First off, the first 13 words don't give you any leeway to decide this point is Moot. It's like saying breathing is required to live. Just because somebody has an opinion otherwise doesn't change the basic fact. If you want to have a free State, the citizens must be armed. Besides protecting one's self and family from criminals, an armed citizenry protects it's self from a rouge government. Give up your arms, give up your freedom and live by the whims of whoever gains control. But you'd better hope it's someone sympathetic to you. Or you may end up like a Jew in Nazi Germany and be shipped off to a gas chamber somewhere or worse.
I'm a gun owner and you have nothing to fear from me. I would never point a gun at another human unless they were threatening my family or someone else. I was raised in a family where my dad and his brothers and their teachers all took guns to school so they could hunt after school. It would never have crossed their minds to shoot someone with them. When I was in school kids brought their guns to school to make new stocks for them in wood shop. Again, no one thought using them on their classmates. I cringe when I watch a movie that uses casual gun handling and shooting and glorifies it. Just like Sarah Palin's cross hairs, it sets a bad tone. I'd rather have my kids see a porn movie than watch a movie filled with gratuitous violence.
Rick
cont,
ReplyDeleteI was an NRA member for about 2 years, but refuse to join them any more because of some of their stances. I have no problem with background checks. I have no problem with keeping guns from mentally unstable people. I have no problem with keeping gun from people who show a tendency to violence or have any kind of drug or alcohol problem. But like most organizations, the NRA is all about keeping people stirred up so the money keeps flowing in. If the threat of losing guns wasn't prevalent, there'd be no need for the NRA and all the money and power it wields, so they need the anti's to have a bad guy for their scare tactics.
But I'm not giving up my guns. Maybe it's from watching the violence and looting that went on after Hurricane Katrina. Maybe cont
It's the thought of another Bush/Cheney type regime taking over and having an unarmed citizenry. Maybe it's remembering how Saddam Hussein took power by grabbing his unarmed enemies in the Iraqi Legislature and walking them outside one at a time and shooting them like helpless lambs.
An armed man is a citizen, an unarmed man is a subject.
Rick
And to my Canadian friends, I love your country, and would love living there. But at least admit one thing to me, it's nice living under the shield of the USA.
ReplyDeleteAnd what if some rogue fanatical government took over the US. And started acting like Kim Jong-il? Would you feel so good being unarmed then?
Rick
One last thought, guns are made for killing. There is no disputing that. But people will kill people without guns if they want to kill bad enough.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35759877
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20040406/news_1n6rwanda.html
In the end we have to find ways to settle our differences peacefully and to quit glorifying violence.
Alcohol, automobiles, & cigarettes may not have been made to kill people, but the truth is, they do it everyday. It doesn't matter what intent is, dead is dead. And yes, drivers are required to take a test to drive, but it still doesn't stop them from speeding, driving recklessly, or driving drunk. .
Rick
Just wanted to interject here to watch out for one of the new stupid talking points coming out.
ReplyDeleteI believe it was Matthews interviewing the TP dear leader. Dear Leader claimed that he was comfortable with all of the guns being toted around at political gatherings. Claimed that it was no different than having fire insurance on your house.
Umm yeah. Except I'm pretty sure my policy will not take the life of another; if my child accidentally found my policy - I'm really not afraid of it going off and killing him/her or others, etc., etc.
In my opinion, until medical science has perfected some sort of penis enhancement process - we will have this problem. I've always believed in women having the right to carry. Men, not so much.
Rick if some rogue fanatical whatever took over the US, the US would have blown up the planet 200 times over.
ReplyDeleteLiving under your shield?
Who are you protecting us from?
Yes! So BEAUTIFULLY said. We must return to civility (if there ever was such) or we are doomed as a country; doomed as a species and therefore relegated to irrelevancy as many of our forebears were.
ReplyDeleteCanada does have a standing army and there are many hunters who do have guns and who usually use them only for sport. I believe that Canada could stand on its own, but, it is true that we have enjoyed the close proximity and the protection of the US. Fortunately too, Canada has had the opportunity to look upon the US and avoid many of the mistakes made by the US. And we don't have an all-powerful gun lobby at work here. Yes, there are still murders, many committed with handguns. But I do believe that the statistics will bear out that the gun murder rate is much lower than in the US. I live in Canada by choice and, although I love my native country, the US, I cannot abide the hatred and ugliness of certain elements - namely the far right.
ReplyDeleteMore guns certainly does not mean more safety but stronger gun control does NOT mean less death etc
ReplyDeleteThe world has been a violent place since creation. Fights break out in school yards, kids are suspended/expelled and go on to bigger crime sprees. What is to be learned is how to punish effectively.
To 6:39 it sounds as though someone has suggested to you or your spouse that for some reason your gun collection may need to be "turned over" to law enforcement?
ReplyDeleteThat is a big huge myth being spread by the gunnies to make you afraid and stiffle any discussion of common sense gun control.
Now if you want to sell a gun I'd like to see you having to wait to complete the transaction until the buyer can be verified by a background check. Is that OK?
Sorry, Gryphen. People need guns to to protect themselves against Tea Partiers.
ReplyDeleteIf people are living in such extreme fear of the government that they believe they must have automatic weapons for everyone and skip any discussion of mental health and the fear that is gripping them, that is a sad state of mind to be in.
ReplyDeleteTo defend yourself from a criminal, how much gun do you need? Do you need a glock or would a hand grenade be better? I don't want to live with someone who has a loaded gun. There are many situations that a grenade would be the ideal weapon to deal with home invasion.
Chances are the rogue government that is feared could find a way to disarm most of the citizens they don't want to have guns. They have access to computers and legal gun transactions. They could systematically out source to Blackwater, the Sinaloa Cartels or other mercenaries. The legal gun owners wouldn't know what was happening if it just looked like a series of burglaries that cleaned out their stash. The government that is feared could use drones in the dark of night and bomb areas. It would be hard to get your AK-47 and shoot one out of the sky before another came along.
I don't get why people full of fear feel safe because they can own arsenals of high powered weapons and ammunition that would never phase a rogue government that intended to take them out. The fear of rogue government crowd can be manipulated by their fear.
I don't want people to give up their guns. I think most people are responsible gun owners. However, the culture is changing and more kids are raised on gratuitous violence and don't know anything else. I am in favor of more discussions about the mental health aspect, including our fears. I'm not against gun ownership but I don't like the over the top need for semi-automatics and lax regulations. After the Virginia Tech shootings Dr. Laura was talking about kids should be armed at schools to prevent that kind of event. When I did follow up on her recommendations it turned out she actually thought only boys should learn to shoot guns and she never came right out with her beliefs because she needed to appeal to a wider audience. It was only boys that would be carrying guns at school. There is no way I would go for that. I'm leery of all the proponents for guns at school because there is no way to know their hidden agenda.
In more recent times the USA has taken us into bogus wars in other parts of the world. We are wasting our military might and further weakening ourselves through excessive debt and destroying our educational system. Canada is going to love us when we have more idiots hyped up on sugar and the popular red bull drinks? We are so preoccupied with our glorious greatness that we don't pay attention to China and how their military is growing by leaps and bounds as we flounder. Rupert Murdoch can see the USA from his luxurious pad in Beijing. I have a friend from China and will start learning to speak Chinese.
ReplyDeleteWhen is the last time we protected our neighbors Canada or Mexico? Just curious, I missed that part.
'Letter From A Birmingham Jail'
ReplyDeleteRick seems to think Canadians have no firearms. Wrong.
ReplyDeletePossession rate of firearms is approximately 1/3 that of the States, ie we have 30 firearms per 100 people, the U.S. has 90 firearms per 100 people.
Handguns are difficult to get here.
Shotguns and rifles aren't except for full autos.
Firearm deaths?
U.S. 2007: 9,146
Canada 2007: 179
Canada has 1/10th of the population of the U.S.
We don't worry about some fanatical government taking over our country.
Why anyone would is beyond me.
Forgot link to Canada homicide rates:
ReplyDeletehttp://canadaonline.about.com/od/crime/a/canadian-homicide-rates-2009.htm
Violence is the last resort of the intellectually incompetent.
ReplyDeleteThe character Lazarus Long as written by Robert Heinlein.
I always considered a gun to be a tool for a specific job. Like any tool you needed to be responsible, learn how to handle it properly, take necessary safety precautions and never use it for other than it's intended purpose. Like any other tool you also keep in good repair, etc.
I've never needed that tool for any work that I've needed to do. I don't deny others use of it as a tool.
However I don't consider a gun to be a substitute penis. Nor do I consider a gun appropriate for bullying, threatening or in any way denying someone else their legal rights, including the right to live.
As a well-educated, intelligent person I've never bought a lot of the pro-gun rhetoric. If everyone had a gun we'd all be safe being the most ludicrous of all.
Guns may have been a useful tool 150 years ago. In some ares they still are. I can provide trivia like most cowboys kept their pistol in the pockets of their long coats because a holster costs money and there was never anything like the quick draw in the old west. Most cowboys died of pneumonia or drowning.
While no laws can keep guns out of the hands of criminals, laws can go far to help prosecute criminals when they use them.
There is no reason the average citizen needs an extended clip. No real hunter uses a handgun. The only reason to own a handgun is to kill people. Sorry, but that's how I see it.
And I agree with Bill Maher. The NRA should call themselves the Assassin's Lobby. Or maybe the Gangs and Criminals Lobby.