Morality is not determined by the church you attend nor the faith you embrace. It is determined by the quality of your character and the positive impact you have on those you meet along your journey
Friday, April 13, 2012
Where the Republicans get their ammunition for their War on Women.
Yeah, Biblical times weren't exactly the nexus of feminism, I'll give you that. Women could be and were stoned for committing adultery. But here again, Jesus was such a radical figure.
I know you're all familiar with the story in the New Testament of the woman who was fleeing from a mob armed with rocks who were going to kill her. The mob saw Jesus and asked Him if He agreed she deserved to die for committing adultery. The way they phrased the question indicated they fully expected His approval. His response "Let he who is without sin be the first to cast a stone" stopped them in their tracks. Soon after, they dropped their stones and went home.
Considering how stifling and judgmental the times were for women, I cannot overstate what a revolutionary message Jesus had just delivered.
In fact, there is a school of thought in Christianity that argues women should be allowed to preach, based on the fact that women were the first to discover His tomb was empty and went out and told people He had risen. People didn't believe them, not even Jesus's own disciples (all men), but the women kept insisting on what they saw. As the school of thought goes, this example shows who better to exemplify faith and teaching then women?
There is much evidence that Jesus knew the great power of women and he respected them.
Mary, His mother, was given the CHOICE whether or not to carry the Son of God. She was given that power, of choice.
Jesus was forced to use the men to carry His teachings because, quite simply, no one was listening to the women.
But Jesus did.
And it was the women that showed their devotion to Jesus as he suffered on the cross, it was the women that visited His tomb daily to pray, And it was the women that first learned of Jesus ascension.
Neither "Charity begins at home" nor "Seen and not heard" are in the Bible. I'm all for criticizing scripture twisting, but I prefer it be done correctly.
The other verses are correct, however, and that should be enough to make anyone uneasy. Christianity is no different from the Koran in terms of calling for violence or oppression. What makes these books any more dangerous than any other book is not the content, but the people who see that content as marching orders.
You are right Calli. What's even uglier is how these supposedly christian traditions are twisted to literally enslave women. This behavior exists in the Muslim world too, I'm not just picking on Christians.
In some Christian sects, women are literally forced to be baby factories, having 8 or 10, or even 15 pregnancies with no chance to ever recover. They are not allowed to use any form of birth control
In the same Quivering movement, women and girls are not allowed to date, can't work outside the home, aren't allowed to go to college, and must submit literally to the husband in every minute detail of their lives
Some of their absolutely heartbreaking stories are detailed here:
“It’s completely feigned outrage — it reminds me of the lipstick on a pig comment, which was a idiotic fake outrage over Barack Obama, but at least in that case, Barack Obama actually said it. Hilary Rosen is just a person that said something on television! It’s like do I have to go on my show this weekend and distance myself from Hilary Rosen because she too said something on television, is that that actually the logical connection? It because she is a Democrat. Should every Democrat have to endorse, vouch for every statement and opinion made by every other Democrat in the entire nation, that seems to be the logic that is being applied here. Just to clear it out of the way. I do think like no, there’s no way in which this actually effects the election in any demonstrable way. And there’s something fascinating at the core of this. there’s a huge a of uncompensated labor in the country by men and women, mostly women, who stay home and take care of their kids. And there are countries where that labor is compensated by the state. So I would love to have that conversation, if they actually think it is work and they feel it’s work, why isn’t there any wage for that kind of work? Why is that uncompensated?”
"It wasn't a woman who betrayed Jesus with a kiss."
I wish I could remember the name of the woman who originally said this. I first heard it back in the early 70's when women were still trying to get a legal abortion. All during my childhood (50's), those biblical verses above were always spouted as justification for women's continued second class status. It was our collective and eternal punishment for Eve eating the fruit in the Garden of Eden in the first place 6,000 years ago.
Later when I converted to Mormonism, I learned that Mormonism doesn't believe in "original sin". It sounds so... so, Catholic. Mormons believe it was necessary for woman to have disobeyed the commandment not to eat the fruit in order to fulfill the first great commandment which was "to be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth" since sex didn't exist until their "eyes were opened". "In sorrow shall you bear children" we were told because of our great sin.
In the Mormon church they teach women that sex before marriage is a sin second only to murder. Then after the wedding ceremony it suddenly becomes sacred and now we are sacred co-creators with Christ participating in this sacred act producing sacred children and now it is our great sacred blessing. But the eternal punishment bestowed in the Garden of Eden still stands. Not that this is because of "original sin" or anything, but, because, well...you know...because.
I eventually left the Mormon church. Ann Romney, however, is still there.
Not to stir the pot any more than, but I think it's interesting that the verses cited all come, not from the guy from Nazareth, but from his male followers ... the ones that made the New Testament cut any way.
As an earlier commenter said, Jesus was actually quite radical in his attitude toward women and other "undesirables" of the day, such as the poor and the powerless. Women were among his closest followers and were with him at every step of his journey. He told Martha, the busy hostess, that her sister Mary had chosen the better part by learning from him rather than being distracted by domestic duties.
The cartoon doesn't make the distinction between the way Christ actually treated women and what some of his disciples wrote.
Anon @10:16 and @10:34 I was thinking exactly the same thing. The gospels (the closest-in-time reporting available on the words and actions of Jesus himself) indicate that Jesus honored and respected the women in his life.
The world would be an entirely different (probably better) place and I might still be a Christian if the religionists actually practiced what Jesus preached. But they prefer to dominate and control all who they perceive to be weaker and inferior rather than love, respect, and accept all of God's creation. -Anne in CO
Thanks for your comment Anne in CO. It really touched me while reading it (Former Catholic, now Atheist). My own family "threw stones" for me choosing not to have a Church Wedding, not to obey my husband, not to baptize our children, not to circumcise our son etc etc. We've been married going on 27 years, Our families forgave us and we somehow made it work well for everyone. They also forgave siblings for their divorces and annulments based on a quote from the Bible about "Not being evenly yolked", after many years of marriage and children.
Love is Love, and I doubt any God would condone one sex being mistreated based on their sex in today's world.
And their willing victims come from the same place. Also and too.
ReplyDeleteYeah, Biblical times weren't exactly the nexus of feminism, I'll give you that. Women could be and were stoned for committing adultery. But here again, Jesus was such a radical figure.
ReplyDeleteI know you're all familiar with the story in the New Testament of the woman who was fleeing from a mob armed with rocks who were going to kill her. The mob saw Jesus and asked Him if He agreed she deserved to die for committing adultery. The way they phrased the question indicated they fully expected His approval. His response "Let he who is without sin be the first to cast a stone" stopped them in their tracks. Soon after, they dropped their stones and went home.
Considering how stifling and judgmental the times were for women, I cannot overstate what a revolutionary message Jesus had just delivered.
In fact, there is a school of thought in Christianity that argues women should be allowed to preach, based on the fact that women were the first to discover His tomb was empty and went out and told people He had risen. People didn't believe them, not even Jesus's own disciples (all men), but the women kept insisting on what they saw. As the school of thought goes, this example shows who better to exemplify faith and teaching then women?
There is much evidence that Jesus knew the great power of women and he respected them.
DeleteMary, His mother, was given the CHOICE whether or not to carry the Son of God. She was given that power, of choice.
Jesus was forced to use the men to carry His teachings because, quite simply, no one was listening to the women.
But Jesus did.
And it was the women that showed their devotion to Jesus as he suffered on the cross, it was the women that visited His tomb daily to pray,
And it was the women that first learned of Jesus ascension.
Neither "Charity begins at home" nor "Seen and not heard" are in the Bible. I'm all for criticizing scripture twisting, but I prefer it be done correctly.
ReplyDeleteThe other verses are correct, however, and that should be enough to make anyone uneasy. Christianity is no different from the Koran in terms of calling for violence or oppression. What makes these books any more dangerous than any other book is not the content, but the people who see that content as marching orders.
How about women being on their periods are unclean and should be shunned??
DeleteThat one always kills me...
True Christianity does not call for violence or oppression.
DeleteYou are citing books written by men. They are fallible.
Jesus is not.
I know you are making a point, but that is so ugly.
ReplyDeleteCalli... of course it is ugly!
DeleteThat is why the point has to be made!
FTD
You are right Calli. What's even uglier is how these supposedly christian traditions are twisted to literally enslave women. This behavior exists in the Muslim world too, I'm not just picking on Christians.
DeleteIn some Christian sects, women are literally forced to be baby factories, having 8 or 10, or even 15 pregnancies with no chance to ever recover. They are not allowed to use any form of birth control
In the same Quivering movement, women and girls are not allowed to date, can't work outside the home, aren't allowed to go to college, and must submit literally to the husband in every minute detail of their lives
Some of their absolutely heartbreaking stories are detailed here:
www.nolongerquivering.com
TREAT OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM TREAT YOU.
DeleteThat is it.
All of this other shit is just man made SHIT!
“It’s completely feigned outrage — it reminds me of the lipstick on a pig comment, which was a idiotic fake outrage over Barack Obama, but at least in that case, Barack Obama actually said it. Hilary Rosen is just a person that said something on television! It’s like do I have to go on my show this weekend and distance myself from Hilary Rosen because she too said something on television, is that that actually the logical connection? It because she is a Democrat. Should every Democrat have to endorse, vouch for every statement and opinion made by every other Democrat in the entire nation, that seems to be the logic that is being applied here. Just to clear it out of the way. I do think like no, there’s no way in which this actually effects the election in any demonstrable way. And there’s something fascinating at the core of this. there’s a huge a of uncompensated labor in the country by men and women, mostly women, who stay home and take care of their kids. And there are countries where that labor is compensated by the state. So I would love to have that conversation, if they actually think it is work and they feel it’s work, why isn’t there any wage for that kind of work? Why is that uncompensated?”
ReplyDeletehttp://www.mediaite.com/tv/chris-hayes-if-republicans-think-being-a-mother-is-work-why-isnt-there-a-wage/
FYI: Whe President Obama made the reference to lipstick on a pig, he was not talking about that id'jit Sarah Palin.
Delete"It wasn't a woman who betrayed Jesus with a kiss."
ReplyDeleteI wish I could remember the name of the woman who originally said this. I first heard it back in the early 70's when women were still trying to get a legal abortion. All during my childhood (50's), those biblical verses above were always spouted as justification for women's continued second class status. It was our collective and eternal punishment for Eve eating the fruit in the Garden of Eden in the first place 6,000 years ago.
Later when I converted to Mormonism, I learned that Mormonism doesn't believe in "original sin". It sounds so... so, Catholic. Mormons believe it was necessary for woman to have disobeyed the commandment not to eat the fruit in order to fulfill the first great commandment which was "to be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth" since sex didn't exist until their "eyes were opened". "In sorrow shall you bear children" we were told because of our great sin.
In the Mormon church they teach women that sex before marriage is a sin second only to murder. Then after the wedding ceremony it suddenly becomes sacred and now we are sacred co-creators with Christ participating in this sacred act producing sacred children and now it is our great sacred blessing. But the eternal punishment bestowed in the Garden of Eden still stands. Not that this is because of "original sin" or anything, but, because, well...you know...because.
I eventually left the Mormon church. Ann Romney, however, is still there.
Not to stir the pot any more than, but I think it's interesting that the verses cited all come, not from the guy from Nazareth, but from his male followers ... the ones that made the New Testament cut any way.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure JC would be none too pleased at the evil done in HIS name and the falsehoods applied to His teachings.
DeleteBut then again, aren't those people revealing their true selves?
As an earlier commenter said, Jesus was actually quite radical in his attitude toward women and other "undesirables" of the day, such as the poor and the powerless. Women were among his closest followers and were with him at every step of his journey. He told Martha, the busy hostess, that her sister Mary had chosen the better part by learning from him rather than being distracted by domestic duties.
ReplyDeleteThe cartoon doesn't make the distinction between the way Christ actually treated women and what some of his disciples wrote.
Gryphen seems determined to overlook the fact that no one can cite JESUS as SAYING or ENFORCING ANY of these heinous things!
DeleteCite it!!
You can't!
Because Jesus was GOOD,
JESUS was KIND,
and anyone who believes that Jesus (the inspiration for Christianity)
Would approve of OPPRESSION? Or DOMINATION over another,
Truly has NO idea of the Glory of JC.
You CANT HATE JESUS CHRIST, not unless you are Satan!
What evil people have done in His name, however, is.
Anon @10:16 and @10:34 I was thinking exactly the same thing. The gospels (the closest-in-time reporting available on the words and actions of Jesus himself) indicate that Jesus honored and respected the women in his life.
ReplyDeleteThe world would be an entirely different (probably better) place and I might still be a Christian if the religionists actually practiced what Jesus preached. But they prefer to dominate and control all who they perceive to be weaker and inferior rather than love, respect, and accept all of God's creation.
-Anne in CO
You are a Christian if you love Jesus.
DeleteIt has nothing to do with anyone else.
Thanks for your comment Anne in CO. It really touched me while reading it (Former Catholic, now Atheist). My own family "threw stones" for me choosing not to have a Church Wedding, not to obey my husband, not to baptize our children, not to circumcise our son etc etc.
ReplyDeleteWe've been married going on 27 years, Our families forgave us and we somehow made it work well for everyone.
They also forgave siblings for their divorces and annulments based on a quote from the Bible about "Not being evenly yolked", after many years of marriage and children.
Love is Love, and I doubt any God would condone one sex being mistreated based on their sex in today's world.