The younger generation is abandoning God in droves.
A new survey by the Pew Research Center finds that belief in the existence of God has dropped 15 points in the last five years among Americans 30 and under.
Pew, which has been studying the trend for 25 years, finds that just 68 percent of millennials in 2012 agree with the statement “I never doubt the existence of God.” That’s down from 76 percent in 2009 and 83 percent in 2007.
Among other generations, belief in God is high and has seen few changes in recent decades. Between 81 and 89 percent of older generations say they never doubt the existence of God, although the older the generation, the more likely they are to believe in God.
I know that some of you will disagree with me, but I simply feel that the best hope for the future of this country, not to mention the rest of the world, is for future generations to abandon the superstitions of their ancestors and open their minds to the advances being made in technology and scientific research, without having to reconcile them with their preexisting religious beliefs.
I just feel that we will never be able to grow to our true potential with the anchor of faith tying us to a foundation formed of fear, ignorance, and shame.
But hey, that's just me. If you agree or disagree than I invite you to express your opinions here in the comments section.
I think there are reasonable people who can reconcile God and science, and who agree that religion has no place in the government (because whose God will be the 'right' Gos with any given administration?) That said, what I norice with young people is that the ones who belive are NOT moderate, but Bible-thumping evangelicals who have been taught that THEIR God is the only acceptable one, and that He wants them to make sure everyone lines up behind them or else. That is not healthy for this country or any other. Freedom of religion means free to believe or not; free to read the Bible, the Koran or nothing. Free from the insults and hatred of people who disagree with you. Free to be a citizen of this world and live life in your own way as long as you do not hurt anyone else. The GOP needs to look up a definition of freedom. What they are advocating is not freedom.
ReplyDelete"I am increasingly convinced that the time has come to find a way of thinking about spirituality and ethics beyond religion altogether."
ReplyDeleteDalai Lama in a Tweet, June 13, 2012.
I agree. Religion is about power and control over people's minds and hearts.
DeleteAbout the only thing Stalin said (or maybe it was Mao) I can agree with is that "religion is the opiate of the masses." I couldn't agree more. When I look at what the monotheistic religions ESPOUSE and compare it to what they DO, I cry. (Most of the polytheistic religions don't bother other people too much.) So many billions of dollars thrown away on huge buildings "to the glory of God" that should - according to their own teachings - go to help the poor and the hungry and the needy.
ReplyDeleteSo much HATE built into the "Laws" of God! So much POWER accrued by those who really shouldn't have it and who knowingly use it to squash others under their feet.
Religion began as a way for ancient Man to explaining things like lightning but quickly became the tool of those who wanted absolute control. Yes, even the Neanderthals had people like that!
The sooner we can are able to purge the very idea of a "supreme being" from our lexicon, the better off we will be and the sooner we can save this planet - unless we are too late already.
I agree also but it was Karl Marx who said it. The statement only serves to confirm the believers' view that they are right. They are sure Karl Marx sits at the right hand of the devil.
DeleteThe full quote from Marx is this:
Deleteeligious distress is at the same time the expression of real distress and the protest against real distress. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions.
Karl Marx, Critique of Hegel’s Philosophy of Right
It is actually a bit sympathetic, not to religion, but to the people who believe, not ot the oppressors who use religion as a tool of oppression (don't revolt in this world, or even claim basic rights, or even try to better your lot, because you will get a bigger reward in the next.
Marx got SOOOOOOOOO much right. Funny when I teach Marx, inevitably some student will remark how similar his writing sounds to Jesus Christ.
Thank god lol!!
ReplyDeleteDonating to organized religion is exactly like donating to SarahPAC. It may leave you with a good feeling but the it only serves as a cash cow to scamming bastards. Where has one dollar to SarahPAC gone to help others? Case closed.
ReplyDeleteI agree. As the younger generations embrace the concept of free thinking, the older generations are more fundamental than ever. My FB friends are a perfect example. Many of them post nothing but religious stuff day in day out, hour after hour. Religious thinking, particularly the more fundamentalist, turns its back on science and technology and embraces superstition.
ReplyDeleteTo me, it depends on which version of God you're talking about. The vindictive, self-described as jealous, destructive, genocide-ordering, homophobic authoritarian God--not so much. The loving, encouraging,inspirational, accepting of all, compassionate, sandal-wearing Dirty Hippie Socialist one--heck, yeah! Funny how the only ones Jesus was NOT accepting of were the Temple moneychangers. Think about it, folks.
ReplyDeleteYou missed the point. No god, period. No version of a supernatural figure, period.
DeleteBelief in God and belief in religious institutions that co-opt them are two entirely different things. I am a liberal and believe in God and am not tethered to the institutional mandates that so often accompany it. God is all around me, in everything that I see, touch, taste and feel. God is bigger than any box man tries to contain it in. Religion, not God, has brought much sorrow to this world.
ReplyDelete+1
Delete-buffalogal
I feel exactly the same way.
DeleteYou know that just the idea that you can find God in everything makes fundys break out in hives and mess their pants. You are just as bad as an atheist, maybe worse. They cannot grasp the idea of God without the institution. God forbid (tee hee) you should think for yourself.
I believe that organized religion has much more potential for harm than good, and history is rife with cases-in-point. That said, spirituality seems rather benign in comparison.
DeleteKnow hope.
ReplyDeleteTime for America to grow up. And the little children will lead them...
I agree.
ReplyDeleteThis is not surprising to me. I think one of the reasons the 'Ms' are cutting "it" loose is the fact that they are weary of the contradictions, and the fact that the God of love is ignored for the fire and brimstone/I’ll send you to hell forever/destroyer God blowhard. They refuse to be brow beaten into submission, or intimidated by people they see as charlatans of the holy writ. Good for them. I’ve been agnostic since the age of 17. I’m 57 now. As a teenager I began to see the contradictions and I had fears about jettisoning my faith, as in, what do I believe in, but I felt I’d be living a lie if I stayed in the church.
ReplyDeleteTechnological development and social change is at an all time high. The ‘Ms’ have access to information unprecedented in human history and they are using it to make sense of the world. The old guard is powerless to keep them from thinking, using reason, and seeing the external world as it is.
The next 20 years will be interesting as that cohort comes to middle age.
To paraphrase the great funk rock band Funkadelic, they have freed their minds and their asses are following.
This gives me hope. I am a 52 year college educated mother and grandma. I was raised catholic, then switched to evangelical Christian in my late 20s. When I was 40, I really got into bible study and started questioning everything. I have been an atheist for 12 years. I am a better person as an atheist. I no longer believe that I am a born sinner, that the devil is influencing me, and that I can behave badly and say a prayer and it will go away.
ReplyDeletethat the devil is influencing me, and that I can behave badly and say a prayer and it will go away.
Delete~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So, what "influenced" you back then to "behave badly", b/c it wasn't the devil, as you now see.
Also, saying a prayer without contrition is the same as reciting names from a phone book.
I'm a bit of a cynic about it.
ReplyDeleteHalf of them will be "saved" at a later point in their lives and will become the most virulent kind of "Christians".
Like Rick Santorum, they will try to punish everyone else to atone for their own sins.
I still believe in a power greater than myself, but I have never, ever believed in organized religion. Once spirituality is transformed by a hierarchy of power and rules, it seems to cease to exist to be spiritual. It becomes just another vehicle for greed and power over others.
ReplyDeletePower is seductive. Greed is a lack of faith, a kind of hoarding because you don't believe there will ever be enough for you or yours. You need power to feed greed. I have not been to a church or temple where no mention was made of the need to obey or the need to fork over money for the organization itself.
When I sit quietly I can feel strength. When I put aside fear or want, I can feel kindness. When I just am, I feel connected to everything. I do not need a building, a group or a set of rules to be kind, to love, to do the right thing. Learning about myself and the world around me is enough to fill me with joy and peace.
I don't want to screw with your head but you may in fact be a Taoist.
DeleteThat sounds more in line with what you are describing.
The beliefnet website has a great tool to help you figure out what belief system is most in line with your thinking. It's called the Belief-O-Matic. Let's face it, most of us are the religions we were born into. As a former Catholic, and now an atheist, I get frustrated that believers don't take the time & effort to really study and explore ALL religions and then decide what is most in line with their beliefs. It's funny that I was the most religious when I knew the least about religion, and now that I have spent a over a decade really studying the world religions, I no longer believe in God, miracles or an afterlife.
DeleteNice, catchy headline, but untrue - one cannot abandon that which does not exist. They may be abandoning organized religion or belief in god.
ReplyDeleteWhat is disturbing about this trend is just how utterly materialistic and self-absorbed many of these younger people can be. What one sees on TV isn't that far off, I hate to say. If they decide that biology is all - that THEY are all - I fear for the future. There is a humility and a commitment to service to others that can be found in a God-centered way of life. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this, as much as Atheists try to demonize and belittle belief in God and religion in general. (No one is saying there aren't a multitude of examples of people and groups perverting the moral code found in most, if not all, religions.)
ReplyDeleteI am the parent of one of these kids, and my daughter maintains a belief that there is a higher power, while also being exposed to and participating in a very liberal Christian community. She is fairly intermittent in this practice, but it is there, underneath, every day. That being said, my wonderful daughter can also be unbelievably shallow in her sphere of concern and interest. Don't get me wrong, I adore her and she has a good heart. I am just talking about world view and outlook, though she has had the benefit of the best education in one of the most sophisticated of world cities. There is a reason these kids are called the "trophy generation". They are all about themselves many times, which is why they think their every breath should be documented on Facebook and other public forums. They have lost a sense of perspective about their place in the universe. A belief in God might bring many of them into better balance for the years ahead, and benefit humanity as well ;-).
Lots of great young people with open minds doing good work, belief in God or not; I am fully aware of that and it makes me very happy. I just think the vast majority who are doing these things likely have some spirituality going on, deep down. Spirituality is a belief in things beyond the physical, so no one can tell me these kids are actually Atheist. They may be anti-religion, but that's another matter entirely.
Heavens to bitsy, we better get Bristol on the speaking circuit as a young honor chastity ring barer with Tripp on her side. The unchurched gal can tell about God being on her side in the face of all the hate in the world and what not. She can ummm her way through a $15,000 speech with her long face.
ReplyDeleteThat's keep young girls from having sex, and turning to God also too.
I was 6 years old when my dad brought me to the movies to see Jurassic Park.
ReplyDeleteLittle did he know, that movie would begin my Questioning of God. I went to Sunday school the next day, all excited to tell my friends on how awesome dinosaurs are and how when I grew up I was going to dig their bones from the ground, like in the movie.
My teacher told me that would be impossible. Because dinosaurs did not exist, because they were not in the bible.
But what about all the books in the library? I was a gifted reader, with a comprehension level grades above my own. My mom had let me take out every book on dinosaurs from the library, surely they were not lying?
They were, my teacher told me. That the devil put those books there to confuse me and bring me away from god.
I was not like every other child in that classroom. And I knew it. And while I had problems with math, I was reading on middle school level. Gifted? Sure. But my high levels of comprehension refused to accept that all of these authors were wrong, because they didn't match up to the bible.
And just as I started to doubt Santa Claus after finding my Christmas present wrapped in my parents closet, I had began to doubt god because of one old teachers statement that dinosaurs did not exist.
Years later, I would be kicked out of the church, excommunicated because of my bisexuality. I didn't mind.
Because I knew dinosaurs were real.
Like my very religious, biology-teacher of a mother would say : evolution is not kind with religions that choose their teachers among morons.
DeleteWell, actually she would say : "oh, yeah, them, even their priests are Conan-the-American dumb ; I'm not worried over their sects' lifespan". She's an old lady already.
That pretty much covers it for me as well.
ReplyDeleteMe too. The holy trinity of Biology, Chemistry & Physics pretty much explains everything.
DeleteThe morality of not harming others and not harming the earth, and helping others when we can, makes for a good and productive life. The most powerful force for good is love, not a mythical, supernatural being.
We don't need threats of rewards and punishments in the afterlife to behave decently.
Just be good for goodness sake!
"The holy trinity of Biology, Chemistry & Physics pretty much explains everything."
DeleteExcept it really doesn't. I'm totally a science person, but science deals with facts AND theories. Those theories are modified, expanded, sometimes discarded, tested and re-formed as time goes by. Science is fluid, not static.
I completely agree. The Christian Right is tugging us back into the Dark Ages. There are so many things but again and again I just point to Creationism vs. Evolution and Global Warming Deniers. Getting the majority of Americans NOT to believe in science is horrifying to me. And to take their beliefs "on faith" rather than based on reason...I don't know. It just infuriates me. Humans are clearly capable of higher learning and understanding but religion just keeps pulling is in the opposite direction. It's dangerous, really dangerous, to have these ancient superstitions spreading around like wildfire, preventing reason and suppressing knowledge.
ReplyDeleteI think our definition of "God" has got to change. In a big way.
ReplyDeleteI know, because I can absolutely sense it down to my cells, that there is a higher power than me, and that that power is conscious. However, this power is so vast it has nothing to do with that jealous, vicious, murderous dude in the Old Testament. I can remember first noting this in 2nd grade in Catholic School (all my schooling, including college, was Catholic), and becoming more convinced of it the older I got.
I think once people let go of Old Testament definitions of the nature of God, they can be open to sussing out for themselves what that higher power might be about. I think there's a lot of space between "Believers" and "Atheists."
Yes, but He'll never abandon them.
ReplyDeleteNo offense, but your simple minded sentence illustrates perfectly what is wrong with extremely religious people. You have a set belief, based on fiction or a fairy tale, and you are incapable of critical or analytic thinking. Intelligent people question
DeleteSaying " he" will never abandon them is so dismissive of the incredible amount of though that went into other peoples comments here. Did you bother to really read and try to think about and understand what other people here believe. You don't have to agree, but that is what intelligent thoughtful people do.
My apologies if I am wrong. I have no problem with people who have a belief in God as long as they respect other religions and those who don't.
"I just feel that we will never be able to grow to our true potential with the anchor of faith tying us to a foundation formed of fear, ignorance, and shame.
ReplyDeleteYou're quite right, Gryphen, but it doesn't have to do with religion. It has to do with how some people use religion to manipulate and dominate others. Belief in God isn't the cause of that; it is one of the vehicles used by unscrupulous people. I have a strong belief in God, but I feel mostly contempt for organized religions; although, you have to evaluate them on a church by church basis.
Hitler did the same thing by preying on the fears of society. He was then able to control and dominate others. Same technique and same goal. Bush/Cheney/Rove did it to some extent using 9/11. It isn't a religion specific technique.
Anyone posting here ever read "The Phenomenon of Man," by Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, paleontologist, philosopher, and Jesuit Priest?
ReplyDeleteGryphen,
ReplyDeleteI am in absolute agreement with your statement that we should "abandon the superstitions of their ancestors and open their minds to the advances being made in technology and scientific research, without having to reconcile them with their preexisting religious beliefs." However, you predicate the discussion in the dualistic terms that one must believe in ancient superstitions in order to be involved in any religion. That assumption is very much dependent upon facts very much not in evidence.
There are MANY people involved in religion who have rejected the superstitions of the past. I would have nothing to do with the Presbyterian Church U.S.A. if I was required to believe in the "talking snake" nonsense. Believe me, not all people of faith are imbeciles.
You consistently want to lump anyone and everyone - with the exception of Fred Rogers - into the same narrowly defined role of being enemies of freedom, knowledge, and tolerance. Such an attitude shows that you are utterly unfamiliar with the Presbyterian Church U.S.A - Rogers’ denomination - because I can tell you from direct firsthand knowledge that I have found Fred Rogers’ qualities of compassion, tolerance, and love to be more broadly represented in the PC USA than in just that one single person.
The notion that you can take the billions of people of faith from various religions, races, nationalities, ethnicities, and language traditions and shoehorn them all into a single preconceived narrow definition is utterly indefensible intellectually. However, I don’t perceive that you are interested even in the slightest in making any distinctions whatsoever between the most ignorant, intolerant, hardcore extremists and anybody else in religion - except Fred Rogers.
That strikes me as being a remarkably intolerant position.
Dictionary.com defines atheism as the following:
“a·the·ism, noun
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.”
Far from expressing simple non-belief, your anti-religious ardor seems to be no less fervently evangelical than the most extremist sects within Christianity. You have seemingly gone well beyond non-belief into into the realm of intolerance. So long as they respect your desire not to be part of organized religion, what possible concern should it be to you if someone chooses to make religion part of their life?
Your non-belief is of no concern of mine. I am not threatened or disturbed by it in any manner. I wish you nothing but the best and would vehemently fight to defend your right to believe exactly as you see fit. Why can you not extend that same level of tolerance to those who have chosen to fulfill their spiritual quest via religion? If I don’t proselytize to you, condemn you, try to dumb down school curriculum, try to oppress women, GLBTs, or make myself an impediment to society, what POSSIBLE reason could you have to want abolish this thing I have voluntarily chosen to make part of my life?
I am absolutely certain that I am far more liberal than you.
I am a passionate proponent of absolute social equality - in the church as well - for our GLBT brothers and sisters.
I oppose all forms of prejudicial bigotry.
I am a lifelong educator and have fought passionately to keep religion - even my own - OUT of our public schools.
I have fought to keep an absolute inviolable separation of church and state in all levels of government.
I believe in whole heartedly in science, empiricism, and the scientific method - I started my college career as a physics major.
AND, I go to church.
I am deeply sorry if I do not conform to your narrowly preconceived notion about what a religious person must do, say, or think, but I would respectfully suggest that it is not MY attitude that needs adjustment.
I don’t ask you to believe, I just ask for your acceptance, tolerance and possibly even your acknowledgement that people of faith can be intelligent, tolerant, and productive citizens of the world.
I agree with you Gasman, Gryphen should get used to make an amendment in his posts, to exclude the tolerant believers such as you and my mother (I think I well earned a mortherly kiss today) from his all-too valid wrath.
DeleteBut let's face it : from a farther viewpoint than your own Church, you tolerant, decent religious people are unseen and unheard of. Media gives a far bigger voice to intolerant, raging religious assholes.
And Gryphen adresses their excesses, because they do not respect his/our desire not to be part of organized religion - he doesn't address your perfectly fine, but alas not media-savvy, brand of religion.
Sure, Gryphen should get used to amend his posts, to briefly aknowledge the existence of the droves of silent religious and tolerant people.
But you, Gasman, and your whole Church, you have to become less silent, you have to stand up for your brand of religion, and to get in the fanaticals' faces, and to tell them over the airwaves that it's not OK.
But until you put up a coordonated fight against them, on the behalf of religious freedom, you're achieving nothing by reminding atheists that you exist. We actually do hope that you exist somewhere. But the fanatical religious ones, they claim you don't. Go and fight them on their blogs ; they are your real enemies. Go and fight religion away from their prying hands.
You know when a crime happens and someone watches and does nothing, nor helps the victim nor helps the assaillant ? that someone is complicit of the crime.
I know that you, Gasman, are not in fact complicit, because you have already fought against them. But your actual fight won't mean a thing if your Church doesn't get involved in the media fight.
I'd love to hear European media report that the head of your Church has solemny condamned as un-Christian the war on woman's health, or other issues that the GOP brandish under the pretense of religion. That would be something big. Gryphen would never forget that your brand of religion exists, ever again.
I totally agree, Gasman. We seem to share a few things besides a belief in God. The only church I felt comfortable in and joined was PC USA, the first church (I think) to develop a doctrine for the treatment and acceptance of homosexuals. I'm also an educator. I'm totally in favor of keeping religion out of our schools and government. However, I stopped going to church when our pastor retired and we hired a very intolerant pastor with a personal agenda. You said it all much better than I did. I would go a bit further and say that I think it is arrogant of Christians to think that God spoke only to Christians.
ReplyDeleteAmen.
DeleteOk, let's say this happened, Gryphen. Let's say religion just disappeared forever. Do you honestly believe today's rightwingers would become compassionate and merciful people?
ReplyDeleteHell no they wouldn't. They'd find some other pretext for their vile ideas. I don't even think most of them really believe, anyway. I think they're using Christianity as a disguise.
I agree with you, but the point here is not the betterment of rightwingers, it's the absolute control, seeked via religion, by this minority over the voters's minds - the majority.
DeleteReligion gives the rightwingers sacred authority (hey, I represent God, don't you dare disagree with me !) over simple-minded people - I don't mean morons, but people who have other things on their minds, because they mostly are too poor and too badly educated too see where their best interest lies.
Among possible sources of civil authority, only religion makes it a moral point of going unchallenged.
In effect, truly religious people like my mother are very happy to live in an atheist country, because in those places religion is not occupied, nor held hostage, nor used as a shield, by people who only seek power out of it and who have no care for the religion itself.
Like the Palins...
I agree with your post. My husband and I are atheists and we have family members and friends who believe in organized religions, most we've been able to maintain close bonds over the years, others didn't work out well. (all atheists are doomed to a place they don't believe exists, you know)
ReplyDeleteBut there are people of faith who accept and respect our choice, and we accept and respect their choices. I don't see it as an "us vs them" issue.
My catholic mother is an example of such religious tolerance.
DeleteI am pretty sure that she would like it if one day I received God's enlightenment, as she did ; but in the meantime, she won't do a thing to hasten it. Those things are up to God, she says.
As for Hell, she thinks it's "story-telling for people too weak to fight their bad tendencies and to follow their good ones on their own volition ; to help those to win over themselves, you need a carrot (Paradise) and a stick (Hell)". So she has no qualms over me being a believer or not, since she thinks I'm going to "Paradise" either way.
Non-judgemental religion : it happens ! In atheist countries.
Sounds just like my catholic mother. She is one of the most tolerant, supportive figures in my life. When I came out to her, she smiled and said 'I know' before thanking me for telling her.
DeleteShe knows I'm a non believer, but still thinks I will meet her in heaven one day, and I humor that fact, for her sake.
I'm not so much concerned with an abandonment of organized religion.
ReplyDeleteI am with the possibility that this is also an abandonment of spirituality and compassion.
I greatly fear that many youth are adopting the "me first, I got mine sucks to be you" attitude.