Sunday, August 26, 2012

Paul Ryan on exceptions for abortions: Rape is just another "method of conception."

Courtesy of the Raw Story:  

“Specifically where you stand when it comes to rape, and when it comes to the issue of should it be legal for a woman to be able to get an abortion if she’s raped?” WJHL reporter Josh Smith wondered. 

“I’m very proud of my pro-life record, and I’ve always adopted the idea that, the position that the method of conception doesn’t change the definition of life,” Ryan explained. “But let’s remember, I’m joining the Romney-Ryan ticket. And the president makes policy.” 

“And the president, in this case the future President Mitt Romney, has exceptions for rape, incest, and life of the mother, which is a vast improvement of where we are right now.” 

MSNBC’s Steve Benen noted that responses like this were probably the reason that Romney is refusing to take any questions about Akin or abortion.

You know one has to wonder how Ryan would feel if it were his wife or daughter that was the victim of a rape, and then found themselves pregnant with their attacker's child.  Would Mr. Pro-Life demand that they carry that potential life to term?

To be clear rape is not a "method of conception" it is an act of violence. The greatest outcome that a rapist could hope for is that their victim be forced to bear their child, so that they can be humiliated and shamed even further.

And apparently they have a partner in that endeavor in the form of Paul Ryan.

P.S. To be clear I in NO WAY wish for Mrs. Ryan, nor her daughter, to suffer the humiliation of rape, in ANY of its forms. I have worked as a crisis counselor and rape prevention instructor and know full well the life long effects of rape.

My point is that Congressman Ryan does not seem to have that kind of understanding, and that I imagine his opinion would dramatically change were he to be confronted with the effects that having a member of his immediate family raped and impregnated would have on them, on him, and on his family.

45 comments:

  1. Ryan is deliberately obtuse.

    He thinks we're too stupid to see right through that...

    ReplyDelete
  2. Anonymous10:44 AM

    No one in GOP abortion land has given any thought to the following:

    Does the rapist pay child support?

    Do the Courts order access to kid thereby the rape victim is further victimized for minimum of 18 yrs to life?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sally in MI11:20 AM

      No, and yes. Part of Ryan's bill that they are not talking about is that a rapist can SUE his victim if she finds herself pregnant and opts to abort. No kidding.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous9:46 PM

      Also, too: in THIRTY-ONE STATES the rapist ALREADY has child-visitation rights!!!!

      Delete
  3. Anonymous10:47 AM

    I have always said if the republicans are successful at outlawing abortions their girlfriends and daughters would still be able to get theirs. It's all about keeping poor women in their place.

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    Replies
    1. Sally in MI11:19 AM

      Yes, but why do they want more nonwhite babies that they refuse to see as human beings out of the womb? I understand the fear they have that whites are no longer the majority, but these draconian policies ensure that there will be more nonwhite kids, don' t they? And I do not get why they think RU-486 is also an abortion. All it does is keep the sperm from fertilizing an egg...how is that murder. Paul? And why not oush contraception and then we have a good chance of eliminating abortion...not through your fascist laws.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous11:51 AM

      That's right, 10:47 AM, the Palins probably have several Abortions attributed to their
      SECRET PREGNANCIES. How about the possible pregnancies of TOAD'S Prostitutes? The Palins are the Most DYSFUNCTIONAL Family in Alaska.
      They seem to believe that they are ENTITLED
      to a life of GRIFTING and LIVING off of the Money of others.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous12:08 PM

      Wasn't it Bob Barr ex-congressman who was zealously anti-abortion who get his mistress pregnant(while in the U.S. House ANd married) and forced her to have an abortion? The hypocrisy of these creatons is unfathomable.

      Delete
    4. Anonymous3:24 PM

      Sally in MI

      All good questions. I don't get it either, but then I'm not as crazy as they are, so who knows what they are thinking. Maybe they just haven't thought that far ahead, you know critical thinking skills and all- or lack there of.

      Delete
    5. Anonymous6:01 PM

      More minority babies means more profits for the prison for profit industry. Ask willard.

      Delete
  4. Anonymous11:09 AM

    Rape is another form of conception, huh. Mr. Ryan explain that to the countless little girls that were raped and became pregnant. They probably had no clue of what sex was let alone the concept of conception.


    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous11:54 AM

      I wonder if he would tell them it was a gift from God that they were raped and became pregnant. Then as an added bonus once that gift is born you're on your own.

      Delete
    2. Sally in MI1:51 PM

      Oh it gets better. If the girl and her parents decided to out the child up for adotion, the rapist can sue for custody or sue HER to stop her from giving the child to a loving home. Yes, the criminal has more rights than the child or the victim.

      Delete
  5. Anonymous11:24 AM

    I have always thought that the only consistent position for anti-abortion folk is a no-exceptions position.

    THere is nothing in their argument about why abortion is evil that would consider whether it was the result of rape/incest or not. Nothing that recognizes whether the pregnant woman knew she could get pregnant, wanted to get pregnant, didn't care if she got pregnant, etc.

    If the fetus is a person, as they argue, there is no logical basis for a rape exception.

    I'm not arguing that they are right, just consistent. And making exceptions exposes the fallacy of their argument.

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  6. Anonymous11:26 AM

    He would have to divorce or dis-own them because according to his beliefs they wanted to get pregnant by the rapist. If they didn't want it they would have made their bodies reject the sperm. And if they did reject the sperm wouldn't that be a form of birth control?

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  7. Anonymous11:30 AM

    Ryan is repulsive and how ANY woman can vote for Romney/Ryan is beyond my reasoning! Those two white guys want to take women back to the end of the 19th century and women must unite and refuse to go back there. We must move FORWARD!
    Obama/Biden '12

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  8. Anonymous11:31 AM

    If this is the land of the FREE than these dudes need to stay FREE and CLEAR of my UTERUS!! Abortion should be my PERSONAL DECISION!! If they don't like it then they don't have to get one if GOD FORBID they are faced with that kind of decision. I have the right to make that decision!! A FREE country does not take that away!! These issues are personal!! NOT political. As far as government money paying...FIRST I have to say NO to school vouchers!! Get your filthy religious hands off my tax dollars for religious school. And I don't want to hear from people who say, Oh well I use it because I'm not religious it's just that the school is better. Well fine, send your kid there and get a scholarship NOT GOVERNMENT TAX DOLLARS that should go to the PUBLIC SHCOOL DISTRICT!!! I think that we can (and I think Planned Parenthood has demonstrated) that we CAN keep legal, safe abortion services for ALL women without using TAX DOLLARS. END of DISCUSSION!! So these religious zealots need to SHUT UP and GO HOME and stop infringing on MY RIGHTS AS an AMERICAN CITIZEN!!

    I have HAD IT up to HERE and I WILL NOT take it ANYMORE!!

    Women need to march on DC if this kind of rhetoric continues.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous9:53 PM

      AMEN to what you just said!

      You hit on a very good thing IMHO: Women SHOULD march on DC. It is time that we organized and get together AT LEAST a million women. If the religious fanatics could do it in the nineties (?), then, by golly, we should be able to do it now!

      Any idea on how to start this?

      Delete
  9. Romney and Ryan just keep giving me more reason not to vote for them...as if I needed any more (which I don't).

    -Rob

    http://commonwealthcommentary.blogspot.com/2012/08/lgbt-suicide-isnt-problem.html

    ReplyDelete
  10. Grrr.
    Paul Ryan makes his case that a fertilized egg's right to life trumps all in a 1500-word essay where he doesn't once mention the word 'mother' or 'woman'. (h/t Michelle Goldberg, Daily Beast)

    http://paulryan.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=207539

    Democrats need to stop pretending the war on women was a surprise and commit to passing the Equal Rights Amendment, the Freedom of Choice Act and the Reproductive Health Equity Act.

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  11. I agree with the commenter above- if you truly oppose abortion because it takes a human life, then be consistent and oppose ALL abortions. Otherwise you are admitting that you really oppose abortion because you want the woman to be punished for having sex.

    Question: if Paul Ryan is such a good pro- life Catholic, opposed to birth control, how come he's been married 12 years and only has 3 kids?

    Final point: the laws of this land should not be based on anyone's religious beliefs. Live your life according to whatever you believe in, but don't force me to live by your beliefs.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous12:19 PM

      I agree with most of what you said - after all, I was the poster who suggested exceptions are inconsistent with their position.

      However I experience pain when someone counts how many children someone has and assumes it's a choice. It probably is - but you don't know. Infertility & pregnancy loss are a very painful experience and can happen after 1 child, 2 children, 3 children, etc. People assume I stopped at two because so many of my cohort stopped at two. I wanted five. I got three pregnancies and two children. I'm grateful. I'm not sure five would have been a wise choice. I might have changed my mind before I got to five. But it wasn't my choice to stop at two.

      Delete
    2. Sally in MI1:49 PM

      My mother married in 1952, had me in 1953, my sister a year after, my brother late in 1954, then another girl early in 56, another boy a year later, miscarried and almost died in 1959, and a final girl in 1961. Then she had her tubes tied. My dad was Catholic, so even though he worked in a factory and we were baring making it, the kids kept coming. Not that there was contraception anyway, but my mom was typical. Stay home and make babies.
      My request of the rabid pro-lifers is, why are you not also against war and the death penalty? Why is a one celled organism sacred, but not all life, all over the world?

      Delete
    3. Anonymous5:46 AM

      Pogo:
      "live your life according to your beliefs, just don't make me" AMEN and Amen.

      Delete
    4. Anonymous5:49 AM

      Sally in Mi: I have thought the same thing many times. everytime a rabid Pro-life says they are Pro-life but still want and vote for war, I wonder just what tpe of life are they for?

      Delete
  12. Anonymous11:59 AM

    I went around and asked all the GOP voters in my neighborhood (everyone but my family by the way, at least before I asked about the rape thing) if their female relatives were raped and got knocked up would they support the child or counsel to have the pregnancy terminated.
    The universal answer was termination from the females and males both. EVERY SINGLE ONE would flush the fetus at the first skipped period. Several, who sadly know first hand about rape, would get a pregnancy test immediately and/or RU486 from the doctor.
    Now those are GOP voters, folks. When I read them their party's platform of no abortion even if rape, incest or health of the mother I got stone cold silence. They DON'T KNOW what their own party affiliation is pushing! EDUCATE your GOP voting neighbors, especially the female ones, they don't know what they are voting for.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous1:40 PM

      From my own experience with the Repukes in my neck of the woods(and I mean NECK as in RedNECKistan deep south shitville),most of them are so obsessed with voting AGAINST the half-black guy who isn't a devout enough Christian and wants poor people to have health care that they don't even give a shit who or what they're actually voting FOR.As with most conservaturds,it's more about what they're against than what they're for.

      Delete
  13. Anonymous12:22 PM

    Poor women get "abortions" to stop a pregnancy whether it be from rape not. Women of means get a "D & C" if they find themselves in the same situation. A "D & C" is looked upon as a legal, medically necessary, and proper, however, it can be a form of abortion.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sally in MI1:44 PM

      I think that is banned as well. They are trying to arrest women who miscarry in Georgia, forcing them to prove they weren't trying to abort.

      Delete
    2. Exactly right. Didn't ann have an "abortion" overseas? We know the insufferable bitch palin had at least one wite out abortion.

      Another point about women who are forced to give birth to their rapist's child. What happens if the child has mental and physical challenges? We know the gop won't help, no food, no shelter and no outlook.

      Hold on one sec hos, doesn't the gop believe in the death penalty and war as a first option of diplomacy? HYPOCRITES

      It's up to the woman what she wants to do with her body, not romney and ryan.

      Delete
  14. Anonymous12:41 PM

    We have to stop these Repubs from getting into office --

    here's another quote from 1990

    Rape is kind like the weather. It it's inevitable, relax, and enjoy it.~ Claytong Wilism (R) 1900 candidate for Texax governor

    ReplyDelete
  15. Anonymous12:46 PM

    This whole personhood from the moment of inception BS is mind boggling -- more vile but just has insane as saying a corporation is a person

    sooooo.... from if a woman concieves on Dec. 20, 2011 she can take a tax deduction because she has a dependent ?? Can someone start collecting welfare to support a person that is only 1 or 2 cells ?? Will they rewrite laws so that a woman who gets pregnant by rape then is forced to marry the rapist so the child is not illegimate ?? Will women be married off at a very young age so they have protectors and are not "victims" of unexpected pregnancy outside of marriage???

    Where does it end ?? If they can control a woman's right to chose -- they can try and control every aspect of a woman's life and come up with some stupid made up science or bible quote to justify it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sally in MI1:43 PM

      Bravo...you summed it all up perfectly. The ramifications of this are stunning. And yet, all they want to talk about is "Obama's vision that will change America." As opposed to the GOP nightmare, I guess.

      Delete
  16. Anonymous1:14 PM

    I'll be damned if a bunch of "Christian" men are going to set policy on MY body and MY personal choices that should ONLY be between me and my doctor.

    These so-called Christians are so afraid of Sharia Law, yet their own laws on women's rights mirror them so perfectly.

    They're hell-bent on controlling the outcome of a cluster of cells, but once that cluster of cells turns into a hungry, underprivileged baby, where are they?

    GUARANTEE that the fetus has the money and resources not only to be born, but to also be raised through college, and we'll talk. GUARANTEE that the fetus will never go hungry, never suffer from abuse and will be raised in a loving, stable environment, and we'll talk.

    Oh, and by the way... if you yourself are incapable of becoming pregnant (because.. you know.. you have a penis..), it would probably be in everyone's best interest to STFU and let the women discuss this one.

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  17. IF Rape is just another form of conception...then masturbation must just be another form of playing with children.

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  18. Who knew? Today is Women's Equality Day, recognizing 19th Amendment equal voting rights which passed on Aug. 26, 1920. It's stunning to remember that women have only had voting rights for 92 years and still don't have constitutionally protected equal rights.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/martha-burk/women-equality_b_1830608.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

    ReplyDelete
  19. Anonymous2:03 PM

    What's next from these clowns, resurrection of Action T4?

    ReplyDelete
  20. Anonymous2:38 PM

    Paul Ryan hates babies

    Paul Ryan hates white babies. He hates babies in all other colors too, but since the majority of babies, infants and toddlers who get fed via the Women, Infants and Children program (WIC) are statistically listed as “white” by our government, my assertion is justifiable—when talking about babies who didn't get born from elite wombs.
    If I was discussing ethnicity it probably should be “Paul Ryan hates Latino babies,” since a majority of Latinos in the data self-report or are listed as "white."

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/08/26/1123648/-Paul-Ryan-hates-babies

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  21. Anonymous3:16 PM

    Would a man of Paul Ryan's ilk raise a baby conceived by the rape of his wife? I cannot imagine him being a loving, impartial father to a another man's (a rapist's) child. that child would be in foster care quick as a wink.

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  22. Anonymous3:58 PM

    I couldn't disagree with Ryan more. Since abortion is legal now, why are they even trying to force their beliefs on those that see it as the laws currently states. Ryan is another one of those assholes that think his position is what everyone should believe and if not, we'll force you to support it through laws if we have to. Wisconsin must have some real religious assholes that would like to force us to believe what they do. Last time I saw a poll, which wasn't to long ago, those in favor of abortion vs. those against was almost evenly split.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Allow me to post comment that I had placed at "theothermccain" {no link shall be provided}. As well, I shall include some of the replies so you can actually see from the proverbial horses mouths how they "really feel"...
    ------
    pcbedamned • 6 days ago • parent

    Here is my background in the "life sciences"...
    My ex-husband had sexually molested our daughter from the age of 3 up until a week prior to her 16th birthday when I found out about it. He began raping her at the tender age of 12. Now, I too believe that life begins at conception. As a mother I have twice felt that life growing within my womb, as well as mourned the two lives that did not make it to their birth. BUT - had at any point I found out that my daughter had been impregnated by her FATHER, I would have accepted an abortion. Actually, I probably would have insisted on it. Aside from the genetic problems that might arise from such coupling, the emotional and societal stigma attached would be far too much for any female to have to bare (especially one that is still a minor). As it is, my daughter is known and called around our small town by the horrid people here "Daddy F*cker".
    Until you have been placed in a situation that calls for such a horrendous decision, one cannot judge, nor state how they would choose. I thank the Good Lord every day that this was one decision we never had to make, but for many others, it is not so. There are exceptions to every rule. I hope and pray that no one who espouses this belief ever has to face that choice.
    -----
    smitty MOD • 6 days ago • parent

    @pcbedamned: If any of that is true, it is terrible.
    -----
    pcbedamned • 6 days ago • parent

    @smitty: If? Seriously - who makes up something like this, especially about ones own child. Have we become so jaded as a society that everyone is assumed to be a liar until proven truthful? Yes Smitty. It is true. Every last word and much, much more unfortunately.
    -----
    smitty MOD • 5 days ago • parent

    @pcbedamned: Who makes it up? How do you want the report sorted, whatever your name is.
    It's not a matter of being 'jaded': it's common sense.
    Part of the challenge these days is that the good nature of some has been horribly abused.
    -----
    Garym • 6 days ago • parent

    @pcbedamned: Someone who posts comments over at Politicalgates, has no credibility with me.
    -----
    pcbedamned • 5 days ago • parent

    @Garym: And anyone who thinks Sarah Palin is still relevant has no credibility with me.
    -----
    Garym • 5 days ago • parent

    @pcbedamned: Yeah that doesn't surprise me lefty. Tell me though, is Todd the father of Bristol's first baby Trig? The world wants to know this.
    -----
    sconosciuto • 6 days ago • parent

    @pcbedamned: fascinating how nobody has dared to rebut nor reply to pcbedamned's post.

    sorry to say, pc, you will be ignored as will all others whose reality might call into question the humanity of the carefully cultivated dogma of the anti-choice zealots.
    -----
    pcbedamned • 6 days ago • parent

    @sconosciuto: Yes, I know. It is amazing though, what a major Life Ass Kicking will do to one. In the past two years, I have had to wrestle with just about every hard right belief that I once held, in order to survive. I wouldn't wish my situation on anyone, but it certainly opened my eyes to the fact that NOT everything is strictly a black or white situation.
    -----
    Bob Belvedere • 6 days ago • parent

    @pcbedamned: Who are you to decide if that child's life is worth living?

    There is NO reasoning with these people. None.

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  24. Anita Winecooler6:40 PM

    I don't understand how these men can be so stupid. Rape is a brutal act of violence where the weapons of choice include mental, physical, emotional abuse with words, fists and an erect penis. Rapes, btw, aren't just a "woman's" issue. Men are also the victims of rape, and they go underreported or unreported.

    I'd like a pre-requisite of "Pro Life" candidates to visit rape crisis centers, see first what the victims go though, and see how callous the judicial system can be by making excuses for the rapist by saying "She was dressed provocatively, she asked for it, she said yes first the changed her mind, have her entire sexual history exposed in open court etc. etc. etc.

    Sadly, I don't think they'd change their minds, because they're blinded by "I believe...." (unless it happens (heaven forbid) to their wife or daughter, then it's a personal, private matter...

    Let's try to explain it in Romney speak
    What if an abortion is classified as "Self deportment", after all, fetuses have personhood, and as so, have the right to self deport. Especially the non white ones. How can a fetus procure proper documentation to prove it's a citizen? Does a pregnant woman get two or more votes?

    I love how Ryan shirks his duty and passes it on to the name on the top of the ticket.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Anonymous7:01 PM

    why are they pro-life before birth and pro-death penalty, taxes on the poor, cuts to social safety nets? Hypocrites they are....

    ReplyDelete
  26. cuppajava7:05 PM

    Something I had never considered was the rapist fighting for child custody afterwards.

    Interesting article at http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/08/rapist-seeks-child-custody-shauna-prewitt

    (excerpts)
    "...the controversy has also uncovered a little-discussed issue: When some rape victims do choose to give birth to a child conceived through sexual assault, they find that the legal door is left wide open for their victimization to continue. It sounds unfathomable, but in many states the law makes it possible for rapists to assert their parental rights and use custody proceedings as a weapon against their victims... several women testified ... that they were subjected to continued harassment after their rapists asserted their parental rights..."

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  27. If you think killing a child is NOT "murdering an innocent" person, then there is no reason to restrict it.
    If you think abortion is "murder of an innocent," then how does the case of rape make the abortion ok? Why punish the unborn child? Is the baby no longer "innocent"? Or is the abortion no longer "murder"?

    If you don't agree with the initial premise (abortion is the murder of an innocent), fine. But debate the premise - you would not expect anti-abortion folks to agree with your conclusions when they do not agree with your premise. You should feel the same way.

    As for practical reasons for carrying the child:
    -Single-parents are no longer victimized by society as they once were - so that argument is void.
    -Studies have shown that rape victims who carry their babies to term and deliver, experience faster and deeper physical and emotional healing from the attack, as opposed to those who choose to abort.

    Hope this helps to clarify the Anti-abortion view for y'all! :-)

    ReplyDelete

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