Friday, November 30, 2012

UN votes to implicitly recognize a Palestinian state.

Courtesy of RT News:  

The UN General Assembly has voted to upgrade Palestinians’ diplomatic status to a “non-member observer state,” thus implicitly recognizing a Palestinian state. This comes despite strong opposition from the US and Israel. 

The Palestinian bid has been upheld with 138 votes in favor, 9 against and 41 abstentions. 

Addressing the General Assembly on Thursday Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas said the historic vote was the last chance to save the two-state solution. He also told the meeting that it “is being asked today to issue the birth certificate of Palestine.” 

In his speech Abbas mentioned Israel’s deadly assault on Gaza that took place this month and stressed that the Palestinians would accept "no less than the independence of the state of Palestine with East Jerusalem as its capital." 

The Israeli government has described Abbas’s speech, which was met with a standing ovation at the General Assembly, as “defamatory and venomous.”"The world watched a defamatory and venomous speech that was full of mendacious propaganda against the IDF (army) and the citizens of Israel," the Israeli PM’s office said in a statement. 

Israeli UN ambassador, Ron Prosor, warned the General Assembly that “the Palestinians are turning their backs on peace.'' 

UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has urged the parties to renew their commitment to negotiating a peace deal. 

However the US Ambassador to the UN, Susan Rice said the UN's vote on the Palestinians’ status places further obstacles in the path of peace. "Today's grand pronouncements will soon fade and the Palestinian people will wake up tomorrow and find that little has changed," she told the assembly with a somber voice. "This resolution does not establish that Palestine is a state." 

The vote could be seen as an embarrassing defeat for Washington, which has always been a staunch ally of Israel.

The other day I was watching a news program, you know like I am always, and one of the commentators mentioned that while it may seem to appear that America has always presented itself as a neutral arbitrator concerning the conflict that exists between the Palestinians and Israelis, such is not the case.

In fact the United State's unabashed support for all things Israeli, has made them favor Israel over the Palestinians is virtually ALL negotiations going back to the birth of Israel itself.

The effect of that is dramatically illustrated in the maps below.

So what does this mean? Well it means that the Palestinians can now go directly to the UN and have their voice heard. This recognition constitutes an important endorsement of the legitimacy of their claim to statehood, potentially strengthening their hand in talks with Israel on major sticking points.

In terms of substantive gains, it will assist a Palestinian attempt to join the International Criminal Court and to be able to ask the body to investigate acts committed by Israel as potential war crimes.

This is going to make it harder for the Israelis to dismiss them as simply a "terrorist network" and provide Palestine with the opportunity to present their case on a more equal footing.

To quote Joe Biden, it is "kind of a big fucking deal." Even if Israel and America refuse to publicly recognize it as such.


  1. Anonymous7:17 AM

    Perhaps it is time we stop being shills for warmongers like BiBi. Time to check which military manufacturers have made billions off of supplying the Israeli Army and AirForce.

  2. Anonymous7:38 AM

    The comparison of their land loss is greatly outlined via those maps. We've heard about it during the past years, but the maps give a clear picture!

  3. If more people would read how the jews migrated to Palestine as a favor to the US after WWII, more people would be more sympathetic for the Palestine's legitimate cause.

    Also read the letter a Palestinian leader (cant recall his name) wrote to the US et al, to stop sending fleeing people. It's an eye opener.

    1. Anonymous8:47 AM

      Well, you aren't presenting the case well when you can't site the "Palestinian leader."

    2. Anonymous9:15 AM

      The League of Nations got the ball rolling in 1922 with "British Mandate for Palestine". And as usual made a mess of it.

      from wiki:

      The Balfour Declaration (dated 2 November 1917) was a letter from the United Kingdom's Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour to Baron Rothschild (Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild), a leader of the British Jewish community, for transmission to the Zionist Federation of Great Britain and Ireland.

      His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country

    3. Anonymous9:22 AM

      8:47 -- Your criticism might have a little more significance if you knew the difference between "site" and "cite".

  4. Personally, I think this needed to be done. Until the UN recognized Palestine as a state, it was too easy to denounce them and for Israel to break treaty agreements with them. As you said, it strengthens their hand with peace agreements and gives them a place to go if Israel breaks those agreements.

    Instead of just retaliating with force, now the Palestinians can be heard at the International Criminal Court and Israel will be held accountable for their acts. I just hope that this is how it happens and that the Palestinian government will use it responsibly for peace.

    I just hate that the GOP is going to use this against the Obama administration, and you know they are going to do it. They will also use this as more ammunition to go against Susan Rice.

    1. Anonymous8:32 AM

      If the GOP uses this against Obama and Rice then it will be justly so. Sometimes a stand for what's right trumps politics.

    2. Leland9:25 AM

      8:32, your statement is patently ridiculous! EVERY Republican administration since 1948 has been in favor of ALL things Israeli and when you get right down to it, so have the Democrats.

      There is no way the Republicans can JUSTIFIABLY condemn this administration for what they themselves have done.

      You may be correct in that they will try, but someone will slam them extremely hard if they try!

      The pot calling the kettle black ain't gonna work!

      Be nice to see 'em try, though, and let Ms. Maddow tear them a new A**hole! THAT I would PAY to see!

  5. Anonymous7:55 AM

    Yes, it is a big F**n deal. I am embarassed that the USA sided with Isreal on this. THis is disgusting. Isreal is nothing more than the original "spoil brat" nation. To anyone out there that is going to call me an "anti-semite"....shut-up. I did not say anything about anyone of Jewish faith.

    1. Anonymous8:54 AM

      It's spelled "Israel"

    2. Leland9:29 AM

      7:55, PLEASE check out the definition of "Semite"! Google has an excellent article on it.

    3. Anonymous10:04 AM

      Republican chiming in...

      Israel is a nation of 5 million people who are surrounded by 500 million people who have been trying to destroy her since the beginning of her existence. Has an injustice been any clearer? Any plainer?

      Jesus Henry Christ! I do not believe a word out of McCain´s mouth, but I trust Susan Rice. You fucking Dems do not deserve her or President Obama.

    4. Leland11:14 AM

      They are surrounded by 500 million people who want to kill them because they are too stupid to recognize the fact that they can't have their "Holy Land" back in it's entirety. They LOST it in antiquity. They CAN'T have it all back.

      That would be like making everyone here give everything back to the native Americans.

      When you treat people like trash they strike out at you. If you want to look up the word terrorist in the dictionary and find a picture, it should be Menachem Begin. THAT man was ruthless BEFORE Israel was recreated.

      And if you had been following anything on IM for the past week or so you might have seen that the VAST MAJORITY of us here have been slamming McCain and defending Rice.

      The Israelis have been causing their own problems. With their high-handed stealing and settlements that the Hassidic people have built completely illegally. You want to yell at someone, yell at THEM.

      Yes, the Israelis were attacked in 1967. No doubt. Ever stop and actually LOOK at WHY? From someone else's point of view? You are falling victim to the same thing most people fall to: The victor writes the history. But the truth is out there if you want to try to find it.

      Go find it and then come back if you want. Otherwise piss off!

    5. Leland11:16 AM

      A post script. I do not want to give the impression that ALL Israelis are violent or that they all want to steal all the land. Just one question, though. Why hasn't the opposition voice about it been stronger?

    6. Anonymous11:27 AM

      I SO agree with you. I too, am embarrassed that our country is OK with this. It is a damn shame. They took all Palestian's land. OMG!

  6. Sally8:09 AM

    I understand the need for an Israeli state, but Palestine was there first. How did we manage to take away 90% of their land and give it to an angry, greedy mob like the Israelis? And why do they deserve so much foreign aid, when they use it to kill other people? If there is not a two state solution, this killing will not end. And Rice is just wrong on this. Thank you, UN, for standing up for all people.

    1. Anonymous8:46 AM

      Many (I daresay, most) Israelis are not angry or greedy. Many want peace in their country for themselves and the Palestinian people. Many support a two-state solution

    2. Anonymous8:46 AM

      I'm sorry. Can't have you characterizing all Jews in Israel as angry and greedy. Not fair.

    3. Anonymous9:15 AM

      They have to wear the label the majority is giving them. The good ones have been outnumbered and they don't count now. That's life isn't it?

    4. WakeUpAmerica9:40 AM

      You really should do some research on the history of the area and how it became the mess it is today. BTW, Palestinians weren't there first. Don't try to research from a novel. spread a wide net.

    5. Anonymous10:35 AM

      They have to wear the label YOU are giving them, 9:15.

      When GW was in office, I certainly didn't want nor deserve to be grouped in when his drooling supporters.

  7. Anonymous8:30 AM

    The Israelinazis will act preemptively now. They will slaughter a few more Palestinians on the false pretence of defending themselves. And that will lead to the sad conclusion of this travesty finally. But the world is watching and the enablers of that evil apartheid regime will be labelled for what they are.

    1. Anonymous8:53 AM

      You're working against your argument calling Israelis nazis (or evil for that matter). I guess you really believe both are true, but most people do not. Me, for example, a Jewish American with absolutely no ties to Israel who disagrees with their policies and supports a two-state solution.

    2. Anonymous9:13 AM

      The similarity lies in the fact that what the Germans did to the Jews is the same thing the Jews are now doing to Palestinians. Eliminating them! And whether or not you are in favor of a two state solution, the majority in Israel are not. They will elect Bibi who definitely is not. They stand guilty of crimes against humanity. Spin that for me!

    3. Anonymous9:22 AM

      You're trying to play you anti-semite card on me.Cheap tactic. This has nothing to do with you and jews who don't support Israel's evil regime.
      anon @ 8:30

    4. WakeUpAmerica9:38 AM

      I think I get the gist of your opinion, but it is a very complex problem and cannot be reduced to "Israelinazis" and "apartheid."

    5. Anonymous10:31 AM

      No, a cheap tactic is infusing the word Nazi with the word Israel.

      I'm not spinning anything nor calling you anti-semetic. I do, however, take offense at the use of the phrase "the Jews" when it comes who is doing what to Palestinians. You should really be more precise.

    6. WakeUpAmerica11:32 AM

      I also think that if you research the situation, you will find that neither side is really the victim. Both sides have committed egregious acts.

  8. Anonymous8:35 AM

    Anonymous7:55 AM
    Yes, it is a big F**n deal. I am embarassed that the USA sided with Isreal on this. THis is disgusting. Isreal is nothing more than the original "spoil brat" nation. To anyone out there that is going to call me an "anti-semite"....shut-up. I did not say anything about anyone of Jewish faith.


  9. Anonymous8:35 AM

    BTW- veterans who have been in wars, say that one of the problems is climate change. in these countries, borders, are marked by rivers and landmarks, and with climate change, they have seen rivers disappear which makes for more unrest!

    they also, of course, are in favor of lessening our dependence on foreign oil:

    Operation Free is a coalition of veterans and national security organizations that recognize climate change and energy dependency pose serious threats to US national security. We believe it is our duty to protect America by advocating for clean, domestic energy production.

  10. Anonymous8:45 AM

    Hmmmmmm rilly UN? We are all waiting with bated breath for honorary ambassador (a la Jill Kelley infamy) Sarah Palin to get in there and swing her big stick around on Israel's behalf.

  11. Anonymous9:10 AM

    BBC news:
    Israel is to build 3,000 settler homes in the occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem, a day after the UN upgraded the Palestinians' status.

    And then they'll whine about rockets being lobbed at them.

  12. Anonymous9:26 AM

    Israel's recent adventure in the Gaza Strip proved a) the blockade does not hinder Hamas's rocket stockpiling; b) surgical accurate rocket targeting is not all that accurate; a) their "Iron Dome" won't be enough to protect Tel Aviv. In short, a military "solution" was a dismal failure.

    So, the Israelis will bleed more cash from the US in their hopeless search for a military solution. Israel has homicidal neighbors now and they always will. The US military industrial complex uses Israel to field test evermore expensive toys. And the US taxpayers foot the bill.

    Nothing the UN can do will short circuit this vicious cycle.

  13. Anonymous9:31 AM

    If it wasn't for the oil and natural gas, the US (and every other country) wouldn't give two shits what went on between Israel and Palestine.

    If oil reserves were found on Haiti or Zimbabwe, guess who would be our new buddies?

    1. Anonymous7:43 PM

      You DO know Israel has no oil, right?

  14. WakeUpAmerica9:36 AM

    We should be hearing the screeching from the creature from the Black Lagoon in 3...2...1...

  15. Anonymous9:39 AM

    Former President Jimmy Carter has been marginalized for his dogged efforts to challenge us take a closer look at the Palestinian issue from their perspective. I recently came across a documentary following him on his truly grueling speaking schedule after he published his book on the subject. He repeatedly made excellent points of logic, reason and decency in regard to the Palestinian's everyday lives.

    1. WakeUpAmerica11:28 AM

      Good to know! I will look for the documentary and his book.

    2. Anita Winecooler6:56 PM

      This documentary was riveting. Jimmy Carter was one of the few who actually grasped the intricacies of the entire middle east situation re:Palestine and the plight of the Palestinian people. I got it from the free library.
      Johnathon Demme did an excellent job- it's available on amazon- here's the information from IMDB

  16. Thank you for that map. I have a hard time making sense of this conflict, since it's been ongoing for what - 3 millenia? I'm more on Palestine's side, they have a right to live decent lives the same as the rest of us. Just don't ask me who threw the first stone, no idea!

    1. WakeUpAmerica11:30 AM

      Exactly. People who have a strong opinion of it one way or the other should research it carefully and thoroughly. It is a complicated situation with fault on both sides. I do think the Palistinians should have their own state; however, neither side is completely the victim.

  17. Anonymous1:50 PM

    I've already researched it and have been for years. The truth is, the Israelis are totally to blame. How could the Palestinians be to blame when it's their land that has been stolen from them. Stop swallowing the Israeli/US propaganda.

    1. Anonymous4:45 PM

      Your research isn't accurate. That is obvious. The chat is NOT accurate.
      No one calls all the Palestinians terrorists! Hamas is the terrorist group

    2. Anonymous4:57 PM

      This is like reading Fox only on the left.

      Do you even know that there were no Palestinian "people" before 1947. There were Arabs and Jews in the land called Palestine.

      Most of the Palestinians today were from Jordan. They were not the original Arabs who lived here.

      Research and reading are only as good as the sources you read from. it's sad that many of you including Gryphen think they understand the history of Israel and this conflict when they simply don't.

      Anon 1:50- you are either not very well read or very bright. Or perhaps you hate Jews? Because nothing was stolen from anyone. Anyone who believes that doesn't understand history or war. You know how the creationists truly believe the world is 6000 years old?? That is how you sound. Simplistic and foolish and biased as hell. There are two sides to this story and BOTH sides have valid points.

      Hamas and many Arabs simply do not want peace. They don't even recognize Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state. Period!! As long as they refuse this and use their people as human shields and suicide bombers, there will never be peace.

      The attititude of poster 1:50 is why there isn't peace now. STOP the blaming. If you did research you would know that before Israel this was completely barren very sparsely populated land with nothing there!!! The Arabs that lived there weren't the Palestinians of today. Maybe some were.

      Dang, do some real reading!!!!

    3. Leland5:46 PM

      4:45, Bi Bi does. He sees no difference and has said so.

      And if you want to, look up the word terrorist in the dictionary. If there were a picture there, it would be Menachem Begin!

      That man ALWAYS (and immediately) reminded me of Shylock!

    4. Anonymous9:38 PM

      Shylock? Seriously?

    5. Leland3:09 AM

      THE Shylock, not A Shylock.

      A vicious despicable old man who hated people who believed differently than he did. And yes, even AFTER the work that Carter did.

  18. Anonymous7:40 PM

    You might actually post a "map" that includes truth. There was no "Palestine" before Israel was created other than as a name of a region. A name given to it by the English after they took over the area from the Ottoman Empire after WWI. All the areas not controlled by the new state of Israel were controlled by Jordan, Syria and Egypt. After those three countries attacked Israel and got their asses kicked Israel took the land for themselves. They have given back more land than they currently claim. (You do know they never needed to return the Sinai to Egypt, right?)

    As long as the leaders of the "Palestinians" declare that Israel must be destroyed I have no use for them. Israel could have snuffed out their existence all these years and has let them live. Seems they don't like the idea of ethnic cleansing for some reason. Too bad the "Palestinians" don't return the favor.

    1. Leland3:20 AM

      Whether there was a "Palestine" officially or not is beside the point! Israel has stolen the lands from families who were there long before they came back officially as a nation. Olive orchards were destroyed. Homes were bull dozed. People DIED!

      PEOPLE lived there! Now it's suddenly "they aren't doing ANYTHING with it so we'll take it"? That's suddenly RIGHT?

      And now 3000 more homes? Another "settlement" for the Israeli population? Tell me there are no people living where they are going to build. And tell me they are giving those same people a choice to accept of decline the loss of their homes and property.

      And Israel would not have been able to "kick ass" if we hadn't supplied them with military equipment superior to everything in the area.

    2. Leland3:27 AM

      And one other point. The "leaders of the Palestinians" do NOT declare Israel needs to be destroyed. HAMAS does. Mahmoud Abbas is the duly elected leader of the Palestinian people and is desperately trying to do things the "right" way.

      Any "elections" held by Hamas I trust as far as I can throw a grand piano!

      Unfortunately, NOBODY will win in this fight, but I can guarantee that the "little guy" - the one who just wants to live his life in peace (on both sides) WILL LOSE!!!!!!

  19. This video gave me hope. There are many regular, ordinary people on both sides of this conflict that just want peace.

    We Love You - Iran & Israel

    1. Anonymous6:19 AM

      Please don't use "we" in "your" love for "Iran."
      You only speak for yourself, not anyone else.


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