Morality is not determined by the church you attend nor the faith you embrace. It is determined by the quality of your character and the positive impact you have on those you meet along your journey
The word should be HANGED. Pictures are hung. People are hanged. So there are two mistakes, just in language.I won't get into the Gospel according to Judas!
I think it might be correct. Judas hanged himself. He used a rope and noose. That would be correct. But Jesus was hung, like a picture, on a cross.
Gryph according to the book of Acts, Jesus was hung on a tree:Acts 5:30 "The God of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead—whom you had killed by hanging him on a tree."Acts 10:39 “We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a tree"Acts 13:29 "When they had carried out all that was written about him, they took him down from the tree and laid him in a tomb."Also Galatians:Galatians 3:13 "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."Also 1 Peter:1 Peter 2:24 "He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed."
GarColga, very interesting. Thanks for that info. I had always thought "tree" was a more recent metaphor for the wooden cross -- poetic license in hymns, for example. A brief Google search indicates that people may have been crucified on trees (as well as other wooden objects). Folks were creative back then, no?
Christ is often referred to as having been crucified on a tree. I always thought that Judas hanged himself.
Judas hanged himself according to Matthew, the book of Acts has a different story:Acts 1:18 "Now this man purchased a field with the wages of iniquity; and falling headlong he burst open in the middle and all his entrails gushed out."
Gryphen, I think you're mistaken. I think the death of Judas is indeed the Greatest Gift they are refering to here (how morbid of them).You and me and most atheists usually assume that Christian Churches have thoughts that are at least superficially consistent with the official Christian Doctrine. But it doesn't need to be. When Faith and the Holy Spirit are your main values, the adequacy of your beliefs with the canonic books you claim to use will not be subjected to much logical scrutiny. The intensity of your beliefs are all what counts. And those guys do seem pretty intense there.The ones who know the less about the Christian faith are Christians, remember. You did a post on that research.These parishionners can very well feel that the Greatest Gift is not the sacrifice of Jesus himself, but the violent death of his betrayor, and believe that they are totally Good Christians in feeling so. Of course the Bible does take pains to explain that Jesus's sacrifice, aka the Greatest Gift, is wanted by God himself, aka Jesus, and that Judas is only the mean by which the omnipotent Hand of God sacrifices his Own First Born. Jesus's Death on the Cross is a true suicide-by-proxy, with Judas and the Romans only being the implements used. That's what the Bible says.For us atheists, it's then illogical to revere Jesus because of his self-immolation, and also to hate on Judas, since Judas killing himself is an obvious collateral damage of Jesus's self immolation. We feel that Christians should either not focus too much on Judas (what omnipotent God can be innacurate enough to cause collateral damage, one wonders), or even mourn him, but surely not consider his death as something as positive as a Gift.But for these Christians, it can be totally different, since their thinking is probably based on FEELINGS and not on reason. For them, anyone who does A Bad Thing, regardless on whether this act was forced upon him by God's Will (just like Pharaoh's persecution of the Hebrews was forced upon him by God's Will - before each further calamity, God is said to intentionaly harden this poor Pharaoh's heart), anyone who does a Bag Thing must receive Punishment, regardless on whether he only did what God made him do. Punishment based on responsibility is not really a concern in the Bible. And living in the 21rst century with ideas pertaining to the 1rst one can be such a mental hurdle. No wonder some Christians will make mistakes on what the Greatest Gift is really. I thing the less they check their Bibles, the less perturbated they can be by the dichotomy between It and the actual world.As this winter solstice has gone past and the days are getting longer and the world is still there, you've got all my love and understanding, Christians.
I think the death of Judas is indeed the Greatest Gift they are refering to here~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`You *think* that. Why does *your* belief have credence, and the beliefs of others (Christians) don't?
I guess you're a Christian right ? So tell me what you *think* they were refering to here.Then I'll ask you why *your* belief has credence, and the belief of others (Atheists) don't.You're trying to pick up a fight in the dumbest way possible, Anonymous 3:43.
Book too long, didn't read. I don't think they ever actually read any of it except the God-hates-fags parts.
Although I haven't read it end to end, I did ask someone who has their phd in theology and was told that wasn't in there.I think the ones who say that are not into gettin' any other learnin' :-)
God hates no one.
Actually, it's a euphemism sometimes used for Crucifixion, since the cross was made from the wood of a tree and victims were either tied or nailed to it, hanging from the cross. I've heard it used in church that way.
exactly what I thought as well.
I just had this vision of a sparkly shiny brightly-painted glass Judas hanging from a Christmas tree as an ornament.
My Mormon friends believe that Jesus died on a tree, not a cross. I discovered this when I suggested (years ago) that I wanted to purchase a cross necklace for one of my Mormon girlfriends. I am Cstholic. At that time she explained some of the Mormon beliefs, about this and extra-Christian beliefs, to me.
Don't feed the trolls! It just goes directly to their thighs.