Tuesday, January 08, 2013

Gabby Giffords and Mark Kelly to take on gun lobby. That thumping sound you hear are the gun nuts banging their collective heads on the wall.

Gabby and Mark after meeting with Newtown residents.
Below is a statement from Gabby and Mark as it showed up in USA Today:

In response to a horrific series of shootings that has sown terror in our communities, victimized tens of thousands of Americans, and left one of its own bleeding and near death in a Tucson parking lot, Congress has done something quite extraordinary — nothing at all. 

I was shot in the head while meeting with constituents two years ago today. Since then, my extensive rehabilitation has brought excitement and gratitude to our family. But time and time again, our joy has been diminished by new, all too familiar images of death on television: the breaking news alert, stunned witnesses blinking away tears over unspeakable carnage, another community in mourning. America has seen an astounding 11 mass shootings since a madman used a semiautomatic pistol with an extended ammunition clip to shoot me and kill six others. Gun violence kills more than 30,000 Americans annually. 

This country is known for using its determination and ingenuity to solve problems, big and small. Wise policy has conquered disease, protected us from dangerous products and substances, and made transportation safer. But when it comes to protecting our communities from gun violence, we're not even trying — and for the worst of reasons. 

An ideological fringe 

Special interests purporting to represent gun owners but really advancing the interests of an ideological fringe have used big money and influence to cow Congress into submission. Rather than working to find the balance between our rights and the regulation of a dangerous product, these groups have cast simple protections for our communities as existential threats to individual liberties. Rather than conducting a dialogue, they threaten those who divert from their orthodoxy with political extinction. 

As a result, we are more vulnerable to gun violence. Weapons designed for the battlefield have a home in our streets. Criminals and the mentally ill can easily purchase guns by avoiding background checks. Firearm accessories designed for killing at a high rate are legal and widely available. And gun owners are less responsible for the misuse of their weapons than they are for their automobiles. 

Forget the boogeyman of big, bad government coming to dispossess you of your firearms. As a Western woman and a Persian Gulf War combat veteran who have exercised our Second Amendment rights, we don't want to take away your guns any more than we want to give up the two guns we have locked in a safe at home. What we do want is what the majority of NRA members and other Americans want: responsible changes in our laws to require responsible gun ownership and reduce gun violence. 

We saw from the NRA leadership's defiant and unsympathetic response to the Newtown, Conn., massacre that winning even the most common-sense reforms will require a fight. But whether it has been in campaigns or in Congress, in combat or in space, fighting for what we believe in has always been what we do.

(There is a bit more which you can read at the USA Today site, Here is a link to the website that Gabby and Mark have launched asking people to get involved.)

I have to believe that THIS is the very thing that the NRA and the  gun nuts feared the most.

It is one thing to take on the big bad government that they claim are coming to take away your guns, and quite another to fight such a sympathetic figure who simply wants to have intelligent effective gun control laws put in place.

Now there is no clear indication that Gabby and Mark are working with the administration (And perhaps they want it that way,), but it is striking that this weekend there were leaks from Joe Biden's task force that put the gun enthusiasts on high alert:

News that the White House is considering significant gun control legislation in the wake of the Newtown, Conn. elementary school shooting is music to the ears of gun control advocates, who have waited decades for a serious conversation about guns. But it’s also being welcomed by gun rights groups, who say leaks from the Biden task force are just the thing to push their flock back into the fight. 

“[The article] was a Molotov cocktail right into the middle of this thing,” Dave Workman, a former board member at the National Rifle Association, told TPM Monday. “That lit the fuse, it really did.” 

Now see THIS is the battle the gun nuts want to have, but they if they believe they are going to get support from the more rational Americans they are really NOT paying attention.

Just this morning on Morning Joe retired Gen. Stanley McChrystal, who is hawking a new book, came out in favor of more gun control laws as well:  

"I spent a career carrying typically either a M16, and later a M4 carbine," he said. "And a M4 carbine fires a .223 caliber round, which is 5.56 millimeters, at about 3,000 feet per second. When it hits a human body, the effects are devastating. It's designed to do that. That's what our soldiers ought to carry." 

Said McChrystal, "I personally don't think there's any need for that kind of weaponry on the streets and particularly around the schools in America. I believe that we've got to take a serious look -- I understand everybody's desire to have whatever they want -- but we have to protect our children and our police and we have to protect our population. And I think we have to take a very mature look at that."

But hey, to be fair the Gun nuts have their own supporters as well. 

Why just yesterday CNN's Piers Morgan attempted to interview the guy behind the "Deport Piers Morgan" campaign. 

(Now if you have not yet had your anti-lunatic shots, you might want to get them before watching this clip. I mean this is Alex Jones, and crazy is his bread and butter.)

Well now there you go, both sides of the debate clearly laid out.The "We need more comprehensive gun laws to protect our citizens" side vs the "You commie motherf**kers will get my guns over my corpulent dead body!" side.

Wow! That's a lot of crazy for this early in the morning!


  1. Anonymous9:24 AM

    Here's my proposed law: 1. Anyone who is insane is not allowed to have an automatic or semi-automatic weapon as well as any large ammo clips.
    2. Anyone who has one or wants one is automatically declared insane.

    Fully trained police and military excluded but with restrictions.

  2. Anonymous9:26 AM

    And of course, Sarah will totally deny ever putting rifle crosshairs over Gabby's district because Sarah thought that was an excellent campaign tactic to 'target' Democrats...
    Palin will totally step away from this, I betcha!

    1. Anonymous10:16 AM

      I have saved a Sarah Palin USA graphic which she refers to her use of a "bullseye" icon. She goes on to say they won 18 of 20 seats. 'Taint bad.

      Can't post the graphic here, bu if Gryphen wants a copy i can email it to him.

    2. Anonymous10:58 AM

      Gryphen: Put up Palin's graphic of bullseye target she used over Giffords' district. It further highlights the lunacy of Palin, who thought that tactic was election gold.

  3. Anonymous9:38 AM

    Do what Sarah Palin should’ve done after the 2008 election: Go to Alaska — and hit the books. You can then launch a comeback in a few years. I don’t want to see you back on TV until you’re at least 30.


  4. Anonymous9:50 AM

    Alex Jones Fears For Life After Morgan Interview, Blames NYPD Or Bloomberg If ‘We’re Killed By Crackheads’


    What a WHACKCASE!

  5. Anonymous9:52 AM

    Heads up, Gryphen, Nate Silver is on Reddit right now!

    I'm Nate Silver, the founder of FiveThirtyEight, the blog where we help New York Times readers cut through the clutter of this data-rich world. I also wrote about the world of predictions in "The Signal and the Noise" which you can buy at Amazon.

    Here's verification.

    Ask me anything, although I'm especially interested in talking about our forecasts of the 2012 election, how polling is changing, America's budgetary politics and sports. I'll start answering questions at 2 P.M. Eastern time.


  6. Anonymous9:54 AM

    Freshman Rep. Ron Barber (D-AZ), who was wounded in the shooting two years ago that killed six people and left former Rep. Gabby Giffords (R-AZ) severely injured, said on Tuesday that he has been given "a second opportunity at life" to prevent gun-related massacres like the one in Tucson, Ariz.

    "My leg, left leg, still doesn't have any feeling in it below the knee, but I've got my leg, and I've got my life, and I've been given a second opportunity at life to do something about a tragedy that none of us ever want to see happen again," Barber said during an appearance on MSNBC. "Now as a member of Congress, I'm determined that we're going to take appropriate action."


  7. Anonymous9:55 AM

    As part of his work on a task force to address gun violence, Vice President Joe Biden will meet with a representative from the National Rifle Association, the Hill reports. The meeting is one of a series of meetings Biden will hold this week with both gun control advocates and gun rights advocates.

    Biden will meet Wednesday with gun safety organizations and shooting victims groups and on Thursday will meet with gun ownership organizations and sportsmen who use guns recreationally, according to the White House.

    NRA spokesman Andrew Arulanandam said the organization accepted an invitation received from the White House late Friday.

    "We are sending a rep to hear what they have to say," Arulanandam said.


  8. Anonymous10:03 AM

    I don't know how Piers kept his cool with that lunatic. The guy is a fucking idiot! This particular segment needs to be sent all over the media within the U.S. showing what the 'other' side is truly like!

    I just heard announced that the NRA is going to attend the meeting VP Biden is holding at the White House tomorrow. It's so neat to see that something is actually be done about our gun laws. Good for President Obama and VP Biden!!!

  9. Anonymous10:03 AM

    Alright, here's some info for those who seem to be lost in the dark on this issue so far. We may just as well try to get one thing right here. The following is a quote:

    "I spent a career carrying typically either a M16, and later a M4 carbine," he said. "And a M4 carbine fires a .223 caliber round, which is 5.56 millimeters, at about 3,000 feet per second. When it hits a human body, the effects are devastating. It's designed to do that. That's what our soldiers ought to carry."

    To begin with, i'll call that nothing but macho crap and bragging for the sake of his ego and here's why. If this individual is truly so experienced he will know that the .223 or 5.56 mm is a rifle cartridge that is barely adequate for killing deer in the opinion of many. It is nowhere near as powerful as the .308 Winchester which shoots a heavier bullet or the even more powerful 30.06 which is capable of higher muzzle velocity and a much heavier bullet. So, in fact the .233 is an entirely legitimate round to be using for hunting deer in some people's opinion and in the opinion of others, it's too light. As for larger animals, the .223 is widely considered inadequate.The two 30 caliber rounds mentioned above are far more destructive when used to kill animals and likewise they are far more destructive when used on humans. Anyone with the slightest amount of knowledge in this field will know that!

    What does this mean to you people? it means that the lobby to end gun violence is at the moment so confused that it's going to be laughed at if it doesn't get some facts straight.

    This is an entirely different matter than the question of large magazines capable of holding upwards ot 20 cartridges. Concentrate on that! And don't concentrate on semi-automatic weapons either because that's also a loser. Maybe the latter shouldn't be a loser in a normal society but in fact in the US it is.

    And you can take all that to the bank kids! I suggest many of you do just that because carrying misinformation into the legitimate fight is going to make you all the laughing stock of those who are capable of pulling the strings and getting something done.

    1. That was stated by Retired Gen. Stanley McChrystal this morning when he came out in favor of gun control restrictions on MSNBC's "Morning Joe.

      After he said what you posted that he went on to also say:
      "I personally don't think there's any need for that kind of weaponry on the streets and particularly around the schools in America. I believe that we've got to take a serious look -- I understand everybody's desire to have whatever they want -- but we have to protect our children and our police and we have to protect our population. And I think we have to take a very mature look at that."

      I read this earlier today here:

      Maybe he could have broadened this list of weapons, but having him speak out in favor of gun control is a good thing, right?

    2. BS.

      Video: .223 Full Metal Jacket vs Hollow Point

      You must be thinking of a .22 cartridge, used in the standard varmint rifle issued to teenagers like me ('way back when) when we learned how to handle a gun.

      Here's a little more information on the .223 and other caliber rounds, and their piercing power, without even taking into consideration FMJ vs. hollow point.

    3. Anonymous2:01 PM

      Drums can contain as many as 100 rounds, and many clips can hold a lot more than just 20 cartridges. If the 223 cartridge is not good for hunting, then what other purpose is it good for? I doubt we outlaw semi-automatics, but I do expect us to outlaw assault weapons like the M-4 and AR15. We've already outlawed them once during the Clinton administration, and I expect it will be the minimum of what we do this time. As a gun owner myself, I can see absolutely no reason why someone should own an assault rifle. The only reason I can think of is some people think it's cool, and like to fantasize what an assault rifle can do to others. They were design for only one purpose and one purpose only, to kill people. Fantasying over killing people with assault weapons is a fantasy we don't need acted out again.

    4. Let me try again. And, Gryphen, sorry I forgot that you had put the gist of Gen. McChrystal's statements in your post.

      For me what Gen. McChrystal said was way broader than just the specific weaponry he used as illustrative. When I read the McChrystal statement, in full, what I understood him to be saying was -- Weapons needed for military/assault use should be limited for that use --- not be available for sale to just anyone who wants them.

      And, for me, the most important part was knowing that someone who uses -- and needs -- military/assault weapons knows they should be limited and kept out of the hands of non-trained military/law enforcement individuals.

      Supposedly exactly which guns and ammunition would be part of any control is still to be decided and would include what he used as illustrative as well as others that are stronger, meaner, more destructive.

  10. Anonymous10:13 AM

    Yes, I know this is distasteful and it is to me too. But it's necessary! Here is a picture which shows the .223 in question compared to the .308 and 30.06 which I mentioned in my previous post.
    Perhpas this will help to set some people straight on the boogeyman nonsense they have going for the .223 as a hunting cartridge. As I've said, it's a tiny little thing which is just barely capable of use on deer in the opinion of many hunters.

    I am no longer a hunter and I no longer own a gun but I am knowledgable enough to start to set the record straight on this misconception. I will also say, it's shameful and dishonest for any military person to stand behind the misinformation being peddled in this blog post without clarifying the facts completely.

  11. Anonymous10:15 AM

    Damn, they're coming out of the woodwork! Treason? How sad is that? Where were they when Bush and Cheney acted in so many treasonous ways?

    White House Petition To Try Dianne Feinstein For Treason Crosses Threshold For Response

    A petition submitted to the White House's "We the People" website calling for Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) to be tried in a federal court for treason has reached the requisite 25,000 signatures for an administration response.

    The petition, which claims that Feinstein's recent push for a renewed assault weapons ban makes her guilty of "treason to the Constitution," has received attention in right-wing blog circles. It has been pushed on InfoWars, a site run by prominent conspiracy-theorist Alex Jones, who recently drew attention for firing off an explosive rant on CNN host Piers Morgan's program on Monday night. Jones himself had helped coordinate a highly successful White House petition to deport Morgan over his outspoken support for gun control measures, which earned a preliminary response from the administration on Monday.

    From the petition against Feinstein:


  12. Anonymous10:20 AM

    Piers Morgan Calls ‘Undignified’ Alex Jones ‘The Best Advertisement For Gun Control’


  13. Anonymous10:23 AM

    Congress Is Now Less Popular Than Cockroaches, Donald Trump, And Nickelback


  14. Anonymous10:34 AM

    No, the sound is not the gungoons banging their heads against a wall, it is the sound of them jumping for joy because of the stupidity of the challenge to the piddly little .223 being used as a hunting cartridge. But there's one thing for sure amongst you folks, a little misinformation goes a long, long way. And it really does appear that even jesse isn't up on it enough to set the record straight. Some may say that people who don't know what they're talking about should just shut the fuck up. Ya think jesse?

    1. Anonymous1:31 PM

      Dear gun dude (or ex-gun dude, whatever) you need to just chill out. A lot of us for gun control don't give two shits whether it's a 223 or a bazooka, we don't like any of it. The second amendment was written based on ownership of muskets; that's all it covers. Guns have "evolved" to be ever greater killing machines not covered under the amendment. Have as many muskets as you want, but the rest of it, nope, don't think you should have any of it.

  15. Anonymous10:51 AM

    FAU prof stirs controversy by disputing Newtown massacre

    In another post, he says, "While it sounds like an outrageous claim, one is left to inquire whether the Sandy Hook shooting ever took place — at least in the way law enforcement authorities and the nation's news media have described."


  16. Virginia Voter10:59 AM

    Well, nothing is gonna happen unless Congress actually gets back to work...that alcoholic John Boehner called a one week recess after the Christmas break, so he could take his ass down to Florida, go to the BCS Championship game, and get his buzz on in Key West.

    Since my son is on his high school varsity rifle team, I know a lot of NRA members...al the coaches have to be NRA certified, and many families join so they have range privileges . Some are gun owners, some, like us, don't own anything more dangerous than their kids competitive air rifles. But they all were appalled at the idea of arming teachers, support background checks, and most think assault weapons should be banned or at least severely restricted. I am very skeptical that anything will get done, but one thing we can depend on...Congress will do every thing it can to delay any action on gun control

  17. Anonymous10:59 AM

    Coleman Glasser, 8-Year-Old: 'I Think There Should Be No More Assault Rifles'


  18. Anonymous11:06 AM

    Oil Rig Blow Out in Arctic Alaska!!

    Spewing toxic liquids onto the permafrost tundra the drill rig owned by Pepsol shot drill mud and gas up out of the hole. Workers struggled feverishly to regain control in temperatures of about -14 degrees. Initial estimates of the size of the blowout were increased by a factor of 35.


    1. Anonymous8:44 AM

      Mebbe someone should get their AR-47 & shoot as many rounds as they can get their hands on into that there blowout. Mebbe that'll fix her!

  19. Anonymous11:37 AM

    Chalk one up for the gun control crowd? A spokesman for the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence said Tuesday that his group had scared freshman Sen. Heidi Heitkamp (D-ND) off of her tough criticism of the White House gun violence task force.

    The group ran newspaper ads on Tuesday in Washington, D.C. and North Dakota, two days after Heitkamp went on television to express serious concerns about gun control ideas the White House was reportedly considering in the wake of the Newtown, Conn. school massacre. A spokesman for the group said the ads worked.


  20. Anonymous11:39 AM

    Makes sense to me!

    Connecticut Sen. Richard Blumenthal (D) thinks all purchasers of ammunition should undergo background checks through the FBI's systems, he told the Washington Post Tuesday.

    “Any one of these people can walk into a Wal-Mart, buy a shopping cart full of ammunition and walk out – no questions asked,” said Blumenthal. He has already discussed the idea with both Vice President Joe Biden, who is heading a task force to make recommendations on curbing mass gun violence, and former Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, who is helping in the push for sensible restrictions on guns.

    There are currently no laws regarding background checks for ammunition purchases.

    “I see it very much as a seamless part of a more comprehensive package,” Blumenthal said. “It is a necessary component of a gun violence prevention strategy.”


  21. Anonymous11:46 AM

    ‘Armed Mafia Are Stalking Us’—Conspiracy Peddler Alex Jones Melts Down


  22. I posted this is another Gabby thread, but I think it should be repeated. Apologies of you've already read it.

    from MSNBC
    Newtown pol to Gabrielle Giffords:
    ‘Stay out of my towns!’

    Connecticut State Rep. DebraLee Hovey had a rather insensitive message for former Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, who visited Newtown after the horrific Sandy Hook Elementary School shootings: “Stay out of my towns!!”

    The six-term Republican took to Facebook to make the rant, arguing the visit “was political.”

    “The Lt. Gov was there, [Sen. Richard] Blumenthall was there and ALL political types KNOW it is courteous to let sitting Reps known when another political is in their District. So……There was pure political motives,” she wrote Friday.

    The posts were first reported and screen-grabbed by the Hartford Courant, and have since been removed.

    screen grab of Rep. Hovey's Facebook page...

    Rep. Hovey's reaction to Gabby's participation in the gun conversation is typical of what we can expect to hear from the right. Gabby and Mark simply met privately with some of the affected families. There was no public speech so I don't even see how that would be considered a political event.

    I was so angry that I contacted Rep. Hovey by email and informed her that I'm going to donate to her opponent when she's up for re-election - and I will!

  23. Anonymous12:34 PM

    The conspiracy nuts have their obvious talking points and this idiot knows them all. How did this man devolve into this bizarre view of his world? Homeschooling, Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck, Sarah Palin and the crazy guy who is always going off about contrails on late-night radio come to mind. The gloves are off. I will no longer turn the other cheek and not respond when I hear these idiots’ views come out of people’s mouths. My children’s futures depend on rational discourse and action rather than the hate-filled rhetoric spouting from these people.

  24. Anonymous12:50 PM

    Jan Brewer: 'My Ears Are All Open' On Proposals To Prevent School Shootings, Including Gun Control


  25. Anonymous1:02 PM

    That guy was gonna blow a gasket! And I hoped it would happen while I watched.
    I watched it twice to see if he did the second time,,, dammit.

    Bill in Belize

  26. Fantastic method employed by Piers to highlight the fact that Alex Jones is crazy, crazy, crazy: just let him keep talking... talking... talking...

    - KAO

  27. Anonymous2:21 PM

    Below is a 446-page list of every licensed gun owner in New York City.


  28. Anonymous3:05 PM

    (Madman) Glenn Beck Rips Apart ‘Madman’ Alex Jones For ‘Crazy’ Piers Morgan Rant


    The comments are right on!

  29. Anonymous5:45 PM

    Alex Jones has no clue of it but he's the BEST advertisement for why we need Gun control AND better mental health Care in America.

  30. Anita Winecooler7:45 PM

    I can't imagine the pain Gabby and Mark must go through on the anniversary of the shooting, but I'm glad they started this PAC and hope that they grow larger than the NRA.
    Yeah, that Alex Jones guy is a special brand of "crazy", I wonder if he's a close personal friend of a certain former Governor?
    They have so much in common!

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