Wednesday, February 06, 2013

Rachel Maddow disusses the Justice Department white paper justifying drone strikes against Americans, and illustrates once again why MSNBC is NOT Fox News.

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There is perhaps NOTHING more controversial about the Obama administration than these drone strikes in countries in which we are not actively waging war. And when you add in that Americans have been targeted by these drones that just makes it all the more difficult to defend.

So I am not even going to bother.

Essentially this is wrong. Americans, even those who we have determined to be enemies of America, deserve due process.

The only way I could see this as being a reasonable, or legal, response by America is if there truly was NO way to arrest and put these people on trial, and there was little doubt that they were in the process of launching an attack against America or Americans stationed overseas.

However even then we are playing with fire, and we must remember that the powers exercised by ONE President will surely be exercised by every President that follows. Think about that for a moment.

By the way let me point out that Rachel was not the ONLY MSNBC host to take this on, and that the story was broken on her program, which  you know would never have taken place on Fox News while George W. Bush was in office.


  1. Anonymous10:21 AM

    O/T - Gryphen - the GOP plan to kill the post office is working. The end of 6 day delivery is here, even though the Post Office uses no tax dollars and is mandated by the constitution - as is 6 day delivery! Soon, a letter or card will cost much more $ to mail, and your absentee ballot will be delivered by FedEx because their lobby is so well-funded....

    1. Anonymous5:17 PM

      Soon, a letter or card will cost much more $ to mail, and your absentee ballot will be delivered by FedEx because their lobby is so well-funded....
      And they pay BY THE PIECE!
      They are bringing us back to "The Jungle"! BASTARDS!
      I called my CongressCritter today and said that no Sat mail is "unacceptable"!

  2. Anonymous10:54 AM

    If it crawls like a snake, hisses like a snake, and looks like a snake, it´s a snake. If you are hanging out with terrorists, you are a traitor. The penalty for treason: Death by hanging.

    ¨Wait a second,¨ says Maddow. ¨Most snakes are beneficial.¨

    You nailed it, though. I have no problem with this policy under Obama. Iḿ not certain I´d feel the same under the next POTUS.

    Thought provoking indeed.

    1. Anonymous12:02 PM

      uh. really? you have no problem with an obama administration using drone strikes to kill an american citizen with no due process, because he's obama? get your head out of your ass.

    2. Anonymous1:58 PM

      If they can justify using a drone strike against an American overseas, they can justify using a drone strike against Americans on American soil.

      If they can justify killing children as collateral damage overseas, they can justify it on American soil.

      Let that sink in for a few minutes. Don't believe me? The Clinton Administration justified killing a mother with nothing but a baby in her arms at Ruby Ridge and attacking a compound full of children in Waco to get their target.

    3. Anonymous3:09 PM

      And how many drone targets are targets because someone being tortured shouted out a name to make the torture stop?

  3. Leland11:47 AM

    The entire idea scares me. Talk about gross violation of the US Constitution!!!!! I see this as a deliberate attempt to, at the very least, negate the power of the Fifth and Sixth Amendments.

    My fear for this is POTENTIAL misuse.

    At this particular time, if a person (citizen or not if here inside the borders) is killed during a legal attempt to arrest him or her, the authorities involved must go through a pretty stringent examination of EXACTLY what they did and WHY. In other words, "why did this person die?"

    Looking at this from the angle Gryphen brought up (i.e., what about the NEXT President?), what is to stop the slow degradation of our protections even down to as close as our LOCAL police?

    What is to prevent the local authorities using this idea as an authorization to kill a suspect here inside the borders? It's a logical extension. If the President can decide to kill an American and order it done without due process, why not a Chief of Police?

    It doesn't matter WHO it is giving the orders. It is a gross violation of the 5th and 6th amendments. Period.


    The Fifth Amendment specifically includes the words 'nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, WITHOUT DUE PROCESS OF LAW...."

    The Sixth Amendment includes: "the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial...."

    This WILL come back to bite the POTUS in the ass. Even a soldier who is witnessed by a couple of hundred witnesses as he murders a fellow soldier in time of combat (provided he/she survives the arrest attempts) is given the right to a trial!!!!

    I see this as nothing more than an extension of the thought process used in The Patriot Act.

    What's that sound I hear?

    Nibble. Nibble Nibble.

  4. Anonymous11:58 AM

    O/T: but a small amusing read: Has Dancing with the Stars 'jumped the shark' because of Bristol Palin???

    1. Anonymous12:23 PM

      also O/T but bristol related...

      was having a larf reading over at c4p last night when someone mentioned a new bristol blog post... about adoption and colin kaepernick (sf 49rs QB). she goes on to quote a news source:
      "Kaepernick’s birth mother was a 19-year-old young woman who wanted the best for her son but knew that she was not the one who could give it to him. She searched for adoptive parents who would be able to love her son, provide him with siblings, take care of him financially,....." etc.

      are they warming up the followers for the truth? this follows palins recent twitter: "You won't move forward if you keep letting things from your past bring you down! God forgave you!"

      ive always felt the only thing holding palin back is this huge albatross. if she were able to successfully to wipe this mess clean, all bets are off.

  5. Anonymous12:12 PM

    O/T again and I apologize Gryphen, but this is too, oh I don't know... funny. Have you heard of the Bristol Stool Scale? Yeah, you're reading it right..Check it out!

  6. Anonymous12:13 PM

    Sorry, here's another one!

  7. Nikogriego12:46 PM

    The drone policy is way out there, and totally unconstitutional. Mr. Obama has not been a liberal when it comes to privacy rights, with the extreme example being the drone policy that allows the killing of people anywhere without any due process whatsoever. This policy has caused the deaths of hundreds of innocent children. This has to stop.

    And Rachel Maddow was right on point with her criticisms and examples. Shouldn't a targeted individual be given the chance to surrender and defend him/herself in a court of law before being summarily executed by flying war machines?

    Even the alleged killing of Osama bin Laden was done without due process, as he was never proven to have committed any actionable crimes against the U.S., was not even on the FBI's most wanted list, and certainly was not afforded an opportunity to have his case heard in court.

    Mr. Obama is not setting a shining example here and I am ashamed.

  8. Anonymous12:52 PM

    Today's polling results. Fox News sucks, unless you think the president is a Kenyan commie.

    Fewer People Than Ever Trust Fox News

  9. 9/11 brought forth great patriotism and resulted in the invasion of a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 or weapons of mass destruction.

    If the knowledge that existed had been used - prior to 9/11 - it would never have happened and 2 wars would not have happened.

    Most of us have problems in out lives - until the media started screaming drones - they were not even at the bottom of the list.

    Has the congress legislated against drones - of course not - the GOP like any kind of warfare - makes money for them. But the media has such trouble finding ANYTHING to use in an attack against President Obama they use issues which they would never, in times past have used against any President of a different hue.

  10. And if we the people put enough pressure on the White House, perhaps we can persuade them to stop operating like this. If they want to use drones to spy, fine, but no bombing.
    M. from MD

    1. Anonymous5:22 PM

      M I think PBO has been using drones instead of sending more troops to Afghanistan.

      I don't approve of drones there or really anywhere but they you have to send more people to fight.

      Want Peace! Or drones that only Target Republicans!

  11. Anita Winecooler6:25 PM

    This drone issue is one of the issues where President Obama lost me. Gitmo is the other. I have to question the timing of this release. It wrong.
    Thinking of another president with these powers is scary. McCain? Romney?

    OT Chris Christie is kvetching about his huskiness. President Clinton's White House Physician, a republican, said she's worried that he could die in office. He's pissed, because his son watches CNN (You betcha! Wink Wink Wink) And asked him "Daddy, Are You Going To Die?" .... Oh Puleeeeeze!

  12. Why do the GOP insist on dragging their children into discussion where they are on the wrong side of reality. Guess a child will now be with Gov Christie whenever he is asked a "hard" question. Pfffft


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