Friday, March 22, 2013

Another GOP talking point refuted, people in lower income brackets give MORE to charity than do the wealthy in this country.

Courtesy of the Atlantic:

One of the most surprising, and perhaps confounding, facts of charity in America is that the people who can least afford to give are the ones who donate the greatest percentage of their income. In 2011, the wealthiest Americans—those with earnings in the top 20 percent—contributed on average 1.3 percent of their income to charity. By comparison, Americans at the base of the income pyramid—those in the bottom 20 percent—donated 3.2 percent of their income. The relative generosity of lower-income Americans is accentuated by the fact that, unlike middle-class and wealthy donors, most of them cannot take advantage of the charitable tax deduction, because they do not itemize deductions on their income-tax returns. 

But why? Lower-income Americans are presumably no more intrinsically generous (or “prosocial,” as the sociologists say) than anyone else. However, some experts have speculated that the wealthy may be less generous—that the personal drive to accumulate wealth may be inconsistent with the idea of communal support. Last year, Paul Piff, a psychologist at UC Berkeley, published research that correlated wealth with an increase in unethical behavior: “While having money doesn’t necessarily make anybody anything,” Piff later told New York magazine, “the rich are way more likely to prioritize their own self-interests above the interests of other people.” They are, he continued, “more likely to exhibit characteristics that we would stereotypically associate with, say, assholes.” 

You know I was thinking about this back during the election when the Republicans were talking about Mitt Romney's generosity as defined by how much he donates to the Mormon Church.  I remember thinking, "That's not generosity. He is giving to his church which is self serving, and then writing it off on his taxes. That does NOT meet the definition of generosity for me."

And it stands to reason that people who accumulate great wealth place a great deal of importance in having a lot of money, and in possessing the things that money will buy for them. (I am thinking of Donald Trump here.) So I don't think I ever truly bought into the talking point that taxing these wealthier individuals would negatively impact charitable organizations.

Now only speaking for myself, and I am probably considered relatively middle class, I have NEVER written off a charitable donation on my taxes. In fact to me doing so would completely negate the idea of charity.

In my mind charity is a sacrifice of your time, resources, or money, for the good of others. If I was in some way compensated for that it would undermine the very idea of giving to others.

Well at least that is how I always looked at it.

Besides those of us living paycheck to paycheck, and who have to save up for the things we want, understand sacrifice and what it means to do without. For many of us we have undoubtedly experienced times in our lives when we needed support from our community, our friends, or our families, and understand on a visceral level how important it is to have help when you are struggling.

So of course it makes perfect sense to me that those of us who have little to give, give more of what we have. And that those who have much to give, give much less. After all that attitude probably contributes in many ways to why THEY have so much and WE often have so much less.

25 comments:

  1. Anonymous4:06 AM

    How is this a topic to judge? Charity isn't something to be mandated or ridiculed. It was wrong of people to trash Biden over donating little in comparison to his family's income.

    People need lives and to lose the jealousy of successful people.

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    1. Leland5:27 AM

      @4:06

      The point wasn't to ridicule someone for NOT donating or to praise them FOR donating. The point was to characterize the Repubes proclamations that taxing the rich more would decrease their charitable contributions as false.

      It is just as false as their boasting about the efficacy of the economic theory of trickle down economics.

      Their claims are there only to wave the stick of fear in the faces of those who might add their voices to the clamoring for EQUAL taxation.

      In other words, once again the Repubes are LYING just to keep more money from leaving their pockets. In fact, there was a news article a few months back that reported that the 1% were putting far more into savings accounts than in investing in the economy than they used to. I believe the figure given was 35%.

      You are right about one thing, however. One should not be judged by how much one does or doesn't give. It's just that that wasn't the crux of the article.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous5:50 AM

      Who said anything about jealousy?

      Delete
    3. Anonymous9:37 AM

      Its only Sarah who's obssesed with Gryphen and his posts.
      This one hit a littlle too close to home since she's a stingy miserable creature.

      Delete
  2. Anonymous4:18 AM

    My philosophy exactly Gryphen. People think I am loopy because I don't claim charitable donations on my tax return. The people at Goodwill look at me like I am some kind of nut when I tell them I don't want a receipt for the items I have just dropped off. I just don't understand how it can be charitable if I am going to personally profit in any way by "giving" something to someone in need.

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    1. Anonymous7:14 AM

      I don't ask for receipts when I give charity donations, either. Nor do I want a receipt when I give to the church.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous9:36 AM

      My philosophy is that if I claim the itemized deduction, I can afford to donate $120 rather than only $100. The bank account only stretches so far, and this way I can stretch it a little farther. You are not personally profiting if you donate the tax savings to charity as well.

      Delete
  3. This is from Luke: [21:1] As he looked up, Jesus saw the rich putting their gifts into the temple treasury. [2] He also saw a poor widow put in two very small copper coins. [3] "I tell you the truth," he said, "this poor widow has put in more than all the others. [4] All these people gave their gifts out of their wealth; but she out of her poverty put in all she had to live on."

    The mindset the Atlantic is describing has been around (and admired) for a long time.

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  4. Anonymous4:59 AM

    I feel like rich people give to stupid charities, too, ones that glorify themselves. There are some exceptions, of course but...instead of giving $10 million for some fucking basketball arena at some giant southern state school so your name can be immortalized -- for a decade....until they decide they need ANOTHER arena with MORE luxury boxes, maybe you should give that money for academic scholarships for kids from inner cities, douchebags!

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    1. Anonymous5:31 AM

      Or what about things like "golf outings" for your kid's sports teams. It benefits you and YOUR drinking golf buddies, and YOUR kid. How is that charity?

      And the money raised, at least in my neck of the woods, went to fund a banquet for the players and coaches (often the same ones who were at said outing) at year end.

      Charity my ass, taking money out of right pocket and putting it in left - and getting a tax deduction to do so..

      Delete
  5. Anonymous5:01 AM

    Amen, G.!

    I can relate to what you said. And I agree with the study. If I had an extra $5, I'd give it. Many of the things people in my community gave to were always by generosity and they gave the last dollar out of their pocket til pay day; and few people could afford big donations, expecting receipts. I lived in small Canada, comparable to those who live in "small America". I'm sure that 'real' Americans, the fantasy ones in the eyes of Sarah Palin, are her heroes, but the greedy, like her, have no problem taking and taking from the salt of the earth working-class Americans. And rich grifters don't mind that pensioner grandmother who sends her last penny. They have no soul, or conscience about it.

    It's pretty obvious that the reason the 20% generate wealth is because they have an agenda that keeps them in the same company and circles as people like themselves. The financially successful don't hang around the town squares at night, or are rarely seen in church basements, feeding the homeless or being 'there' when the little people have struggles.

    It's an affront to humanity when the GOP would retract federal aid to help towards those who can't get back on their feet. It's easy to understand why they have no compassion; they refuse to look into the eyes of the ones who are struggling. They slander the President because he's the one who would provide relief. They keep themselves surrounded by yes men, aides, staff and don't have to deal with their idea of low-lifes. This is the attitude they generate and they have to perform an autopsy on their dead party to find out what's wrong?

    The boisterous boastful Trump and his blahblahblah I'm a success story - endorsing the GOP presidential nominee showed the true colors of the party; they commiserate with the boastful rich, who promote themselves and support a party that would remove food stamps from a hungry family. Shame on them.

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  6. WakeUpAmerica5:08 AM

    "If I was in some way compensated for that it would undermine the very idea of giving to others.

    Declaring it on your taxes means that the government isnt' compensated for your generosity to others. And actually, that isn't true either. You only get to protect a small amount of your generosity from taxes. I can't see the logic behind paying taxes on the money you kindly give to people in need. Declaring it on your taxes enables you to give more. Take that money that the government would otherwise get and donate it to a worthy cause.

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    1. Anonymous5:34 AM

      Foolish, Comatose American - "the government" is a worthy cause in our eyes. Making sure there is a bit of equity in our American institutions - like education, and healthcare and worker safety, and yes, even foreign aid so other aren't suffering and think of America as a friend, not an enemy..

      Delete
    2. WakeUpAmerica6:50 AM

      5:34
      I don't believe I said that I was anti-tax or that I didn't understand the value of government supported healthcare, education, etc. However, I don't expect to be taxed for generosity to others. Get off your sanctimonious high horse and learn the nuances of our language.

      Delete
  7. Anonymous5:26 AM

    Gryphen, there's another way to do "charity" too - it happens a LOT in senior and low-income areas. It's very informal and will never be recorded. My mom, as the lifelong driver in her group of elderly widow friends, was always the one to drive them to doc's appointments, out to restaurants, to church, movies, etc. She never asked for gas money. When people formally give to charity, they deduct x (,48cents per mile) just like a business to not only cover the cost of gas, but all the upkeep and insurance on the vehicle to get to wherever they do their charity work.

    The old lady in the neighborhood, who "watches the kids for a few minutes" while mom picks up the sick kid from school, or bakes cookies for those same kids, or the guy who does the disabled (permanently or temporarily) person's lawn or shovels their sidewalk, the neighbor who sits the dog or cooks a meal after a new baby, or comes over to clean the house after a death, all that is charity.

    When I teach a newly unemployed friend how to cook, or how to garden and preserve,or even take them to the best resale shops and show them how to shop there, that's my time, effort and some money - and that's charity, too.

    When an unemployed but mechanically skilled friend helps a homeowner with a plumbing problem, refusing pay - that's also charity.

    If this was done by a corporation, or through a formal charity, it would all be recorded. It isn't.

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  8. Leland5:32 AM

    Part of this phenomenon has been recognized and understood for millennia. We give more because we have actually experienced it.

    I NEVER waste food. If it is on my plate I eat it. Why? Because I have been hungry - truly HUNGRY. I take what I NEED and don't waste it.

    It is this which causes the difference between the lower incomes and MOST of the upper. Of course, not all the "rich" are "less inclined" to donate, just as not all of the lower incomes donate more!

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    1. Yes, Leland, that is how I see it too. As a single mom years ago, I can remember how we had nothing to eat at one point except potatoes and nothing to put on them except mayonnaise. (Good thing my kids liked that combination). It's a miserable way to live, and I am more empathetic and generous to others because of experiences like that.

      Delete
  9. A neighbor has all the republican talking points down cold, and spouts them whenever his wife will permit it, but the guy is a skilled mechanic, and does free work on cars for economically challenged folks all the time. Can you be a hypocrite about being a hypocrite?

    ReplyDelete
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    ReplyDelete
  11. Anonymous7:46 AM

    We know that the Palin Klan are not supporters of the needy!

    ReplyDelete
  12. Anonymous8:43 AM

    Most of these deductions are a moot point as the standard deduction for 2012 is $5950 per person or $12,200 for married couples filing jointly so even with medical, charitable giving and mortgage interest most people don't exceed the standard.

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  13. Anonymous11:46 AM

    One of my favorite things this time of year, by that I mean the Girl Scouts cookies, they are everywhere selling cookies. I always give them some money, but, as a diabetic I refuse the cookies. Then I go into the store and buy a scratch and win lottery ticket, if I lose so what, if I win, I give them the ticket, I love this!!! Last week I won 22 bucks, walked out, and handed it to the Den Mom, the look on her face was priceless... But that's just me... That look is better than a measly tax deduction, IMHO

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  14. Anonymous12:10 PM

    A few months ago, my husband was raising money for a local charity with an organization. They were selling candy bars outside a local grocery store. When he came home he made the comment that the people that gave the most were the ones that looked like they couldn't spare it and the ones that looked like they had plenty wouldn't even make eye contact with him!
    NancyB in SC

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  15. Anita Winecooler6:30 PM

    I totally agree with you and the study. I've always felt the middle and lower class (and some upper class) folks give more because they're closer to the suffering than the uber rich who live in their self centered cocoons. I was raised to budget my money, time, and talent, pay myself first, save and to include charitable giving as an item of it's own.
    I never missed whatever I gave, as a matter of fact, it's always returned to me one way or another.
    I have to disagree on one point, the claiming of charitable deductions. In my way of looking at it, if it allows me to give more and I'm itemizing anyway, why NOT take advantage of a portion of my givings?
    I guess all that matters is giving for the sake of giving. Not some "Celebrity, look at ME" charity show with a toupeed loony's name all over it.

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  16. Anonymous7:34 PM

    Was it a talking point that the wealthy would stop making charitable donations if the Bush tax cuts expired for them? A friend insisted that before the election while defending Romney's 14% tax rate. She declared percentages do not matter.

    I think in terms of percentages and other people only think of dollar amounts. Less money may be a more generous person. The wealthiest can reduce their tax rate by large charitable donations which is an incentive to donate.

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