Thursday, June 06, 2013

The Obama scandal that's going to stick. And it's a shame, because in reality it's a Bush administration scandal.

Courtesy of CNN:  

The U.S. government has obtained a top secret court order that requires Verizon to turn over the telephone records of millions of Americans to the National Security Agency on an "ongoing daily basis," the UK-based Guardian newspaper reported. 

The four-page order, which The Guardian published on its website Wednesday, requires the communications giant to turn over "originating and terminating" telephone numbers as well as the location, time and duration of the calls -- and demands that the order be kept secret. 

If genuine, it gives the NSA blanket access to the records of millions of Verizon customers' domestic and foreign phone calls made between April 25, when the order was signed, and July 19, when it expires. 

While the report infuriated people across the country -- former Vice President Al Gore called the idea "obscenely outrageous" -- a senior official in the Obama administration defended the idea of such an order early Thursday. 

Without acknowledging whether the order exists, the administration official emphasized that such an order does not include collection of "the content of any communications or the name of any subscriber. It relates exclusively to metadata, such as a telephone number or the length of a call." 

"Information of the sort described in the Guardian article has been a critical tool in protecting the nation from terrorist threats to the United States, as it allows counterterrorism personnel to discover whether known or suspected terrorists have been in contact with other persons who may be engaged in terrorist activities, particularly people located inside the United States," the unnamed official said in a written statement to media. 

The official also insisted that the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act authorizes intelligence collection. Activities "are subject to strict controls and procedures under oversight of the Department of Justice, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and the FISA Court, to ensure that they comply with the Constitution and laws of the United States and appropriately protect privacy and civil liberties."

Regardless of whether this data mining is subject to "strict controls and procedures under oversight of the Department of Justice, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and the FISA Court: or not, the truth is that it is wrong. Just like it was wrong when the Bush administration started it: 

Under the Bush administration, officials in security agencies had disclosed to reporters the large-scale collection of call records data by the NSA, but this is the first time significant and top-secret documents have revealed the continuation of the practice on a massive scale under President Obama.

The difference then was that the news agencies simply did not get as indignant and demonstrate the kind of outrage that they are about to demonstrate now that President Obama is in the White House.

However if anybody expects me to make excuses for this President, and his administration, you are wrong. I fucking hated this crap when Bush was doing it and I hate it just as much now that a Democratic President is doing it.

So if Fox News wants to jump all over this and use it to attempt to attack the President, something they would NEVER have done while Bush was in office, I see that as a good thing, because if people get angry enough perhaps we can finally put a stop to this outrageous spying on American citizens.

You know I heard somebody way back when Obama was first elected say that no President gives up the powers gained by his predecessors. In other words now that this kind of program was in place it was highly unlikely that Obama would not take advantage of it.

Sadly that turned out to be true.

We need to do what we can to make sure that the NEXT President does not have that same opportunity.

Though that may turn out to be virtually impossible as the bill which supports this kind of overreach passed the Senate 72-23 and the program has been extended five more years. Well past the end of Obama's second term. 

56 comments:

  1. Anonymous12:33 PM

    NSA = terrorist organization worse than Al Qaeda.

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    1. Anonymous8:15 PM

      They've murdered hundreds of people. Besides it doesn't take murder to make someone a terrorist. NSA is terrorizing the US citizens. If you don't realize that by now you're the moron.

      Delete
  2. I'm beginning to think massive numbers of people have lost their memories.

    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-10-nsa_x.htm?453

    Doe no one remember being upset about this as far back 2005? Or is it just that I am so very old? There was an outcry.

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    1. Well if it is just because you're old Alisa, you are not alone.

      I talked about it almost every day right here.

      Delete
    2. Ailsa2:33 PM

      I should have expected that,Gryph. I hadn't found you yet!

      Delete
    3. Anonymous3:54 PM

      Here's what bothers me: People are acting like President Obama broke the law, and that congress, and the courts NOTHING to do with it. The Patriot Act enabled this. People on both the Left, and Right are going to try to punish President Obama for something that started under the Bush administration, and has been going on probably more than 7 years. People are acting as though President Obama went rogue, and acted alone, like Bush did.

      Yet again, Barack Obama is being held to a different standard. When the black guy is in charge, only NOW is there a serious push to change the rules.

      Delete
  3. Anonymous12:59 PM

    http://www.amazon.com/Shadow-Factory-NSA-Eavesdropping-America/dp/0307279391

    Read this book. It tells in astonishing detail how pretty much every bit of data on the internet is being sucked into the NSA. He also covers the FISA warrant issue. What the Guardian published isn't really "new" news.

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    1. Dinty1:58 PM

      "The Puzzle Palace" is also a good read, and shows just how long this has been going on.

      Delete
  4. I’ve been hearing about spying on phone calls almost as long as I’ve been alive. I don’t think this will surprise many people.

    Conscientious objectors (Vietnam era) had their mail opened. This is how the USA rolls; I’m not saying it’s admirable.

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    1. Anonymous3:28 AM

      No kidding, Hoover did this ages ago and all the Patriot Act did was make it legal. Technology made it easier and faster. This is no scandal, it is the way things are and ALWAYS have been.

      Delete
  5. Jim In Texas1:12 PM

    This is a "scandal" which the Republicans have no interest in pursuing. My God, what if the populace actually did turn against the Patriot Act and the FIS court. No, you won't hear anything from the Republicans on this beyond a couple of initial opportunistic attacks from a few CongressCritters (R) who haven't gotten the message yet. This was an attempt by the MEDIA to create a new "scandal". The Republicans will not go along with the attempt.

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  6. Anonymous1:22 PM

    Still blaming Bush
    Truth is Obama is much worse than either Bush or Nixon

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    1. Leland1:32 PM

      Remember the milk ad?

      Well,

      GOT PROOF??????????

      Delete
    2. Anonymous1:33 PM

      Truth is he is not. The truth is we are hearing about things that Bush kept hidden. Yes it's serious, but Obama is not Nixon. Funny how the right glosses right over Bush and Czar Cheney, who put all this in place, allowed torture, and gutted the middle class. I want to see the Patriot Act gone , but it won't be.

      Delete
    3. Dinty2:02 PM

      Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel good.

      Delete
    4. Ailsa2:35 PM

      Yeah, yeah. And Nixon was a fecking angel.

      Delete
    5. Anonymous4:05 PM

      @1:22:

      Yup, still blaming Bush, because those are the FACTS, dipshit!

      Bush signed the fucking Patriot Act into law! And, congress has refused on numerous occasions to repeal the Patriot Act!

      This started under the Bush administration, except Bush used to do it WITHOUT a warrant, without congress, or any oversight. The law was changed in 2007, and now states that there must be oversight, and NSA must get authorization from congress, and a warrant. The Obama administration did it according to the law, unlike BUSH!

      You're talking bullshit, and you know it!

      Delete
    6. Anita Winecooler6:38 PM

      Obama has more melanin? Is that it?

      Delete
  7. Anonymous1:39 PM

    Bristol and her son, Tripp, 4, live in Wasilla, Alaska, with Willow. Needless to say, snow in May is a surprise for L.A.-based Melissa and Joan, who arrive to find that Tripp rules the roost. According to ABC's release, Melissa "finds it a challenge to deal with Tripp's boyish exuberance." She thinks he needs more structure and a daily routine.

    Meanwhile, at the Rivers' L.A. home, which doubles as a television production office and the set of three TV shows, every day is scheduled to the minute for Melissa's son Cooper, 12. The house bustles with cameras and crews, but the family makes sure to always sit down for dinner together. Bristol is surprised by it all, and vows to lighten things up.

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    1. Anonymous1:59 PM

      Who cares about Bristol and Joan Rivers? Seriously....what a snoozefest. Someone is trying hard to get us all to watch! But I'd rather watch pink paint dry.

      Delete
    2. Leland5:23 PM

      OH NO! NOT PINK! ANYTHING BUT PINK!!!!!!!!!

      Delete
  8. Anonymous1:56 PM

    Gryphen, don't get sucked into this garbage, the Obama Diary is covering this quite well and it's not at all the way the media is trying to portray it. If you trust your president, then TRUST HIM, don't condemn before you get all the facts. To suggest that this is a 'scandal' that will 'stick' is downright off base and out of line at this point. Read here:

    http://theobamadiary.com/2013/06/06/intelligence-agency-conducts-intelligence-news-at-11/

    http://theobamadiary.com/2013/06/06/the-truth-hurts-but-its-the-truth/

    http://joshuafoust.com/nine-dashed-off-points-on-the-nsa-scandal/

    http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/obama-administration-defends-nsa-collection-of-phone-records

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    1. Anonymous4:07 PM

      This is no scandal, and it's not going to stick, either.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous3:29 AM

      My thoughts exactly, 4:07PM.

      Delete
  9. Dinty1:56 PM

    NSA has been doing this for ALOT longer (think Reagan). In the '80s and '90s the Washington DC metro area was designated a "National Security Zone" part of the benefit of such a designation was that you got to have every phone call recorded and processed using VR technology that would flag certain conversations for review based upon content. That program was called "Echelon".

    I lived in the DC area back then, and am used to the idea of my phone calls being recorded, so I'm not really that outraged by this. If there was evidence that such recording were used for political purposes, that would be a scandal.

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  10. Anonymous2:01 PM

    When I was a teenager, it freaked me out to think my own country would consider spying on its citizens.

    I never was all that radical, but no doubt said some anti-Nixon stuff on the phone to friends.

    Later in life, when I heard more about all that, amplified immensely by the existence of the internet, I thought about what it would be like, for someone to be charged with gathering "intel" on ME.

    I pictured some poor schmuck in a room with lots of equipment, empty boxes of NoDoze piling up in the corner, loud rock music playing and coffee being piped into the guy's mouth...yet he is still comatose.

    When I hear people freaking out, saying they are afraid to be on Facebook, or in the extreme, speak on the phone, I have to remind them that no one gives two shits about ANYthing they say or do.

    That doesn't excuse the government from acting in this way, but holy crap, people, unless you are planning an overthrow of the nation, CHILL!

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    1. Anonymous4:06 PM

      In 1986, I happened to arrive in Kiev with a group of high school students the day after Chernobyl exploded about 60 miles away. When we finally found out about the incident 2 days later, we began calling home to let our families know we were okay.

      This was back in the days of the old Soviet Union and all of our phone calls back to the U.S. were closely monitored. As soon as we mentioned the incident, the connections got very fuzzy, and cleared up as soon as we changed the subject.

      As creepy as the experience was, I often thought about the poor people whose job it was to listen to hundreds of boring conversations and hit a button to create static every time a banned topic was mentioned.

      Delete
  11. Anonymous2:08 PM

    Everyone is massively overreacting, which is typical. INCLUDING you Jesse. Do your homework before you jump to conclusions, please. You have a voice on the net, so stop jumping on the bandwagon of this crap and dig deeper, instead of condemning President Obama. You're smarter than that, so I'm sorry to see you throw your lot in with this the way you are. Your post is not helping. You can do better. Much better. Spend some time getting the facts and then you'll be in a far better, smarter, more coherent position and will not provide a disservice to your readers the way you are now. Just stop with the hysteria, it isn't productive at all.

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    1. No we are not overreacting. But there were many who under-reacted back when Bush was doing this because he kept scaring them into complacency with color coded terror alerts.

      My point is that his is inappropriate when it is done by ANY administration, including the current one.

      I think making a big deal about it, and getting more people to recognize that it is happening, is a good thing.

      I am not attacking the President, but I am attacking this policy.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous3:10 PM

      >>No we are not overreacting.

      Yes, Gryphen, you are. You are hysterically carrying on about something that you haven't gotten all the information on, which is behavior typical these days with everybody. Dig deeper. Do your due diligence. You haven't done that.

      With all due respect, because I love you and your blog, I am disappointed that you are choosing to react in a way that is ignorant, uninformed and lacking in the knowledge that would reflect your otherwise commitment to getting to the truth.

      Obviously, you have a bone to pick with this. I'm not exactly thrilled with the whole idea either, but I try to understand things beyond the screech of a media that salivates for anything to blow out of proportion for the sake of journalistic porn. I suggest you might do the same. Get the facts, then respond, instead of this knee-jerk reaction.

      It's important to set that kind of standard with your blog, at least it's what I've come to expect from you. Perhaps I've been mistaken, but I don't think so.

      Glenn Greenwald is the author of the original article that has exploded. He's notorious for stirring any pot he can, taking things to extremes and twisting and spinning to his satisfaction. I give very little credence to much of anything he has to say, nor should you.

      When all this spun up hysteria calms down, and it will, things will be much clearer as has been the case with EVERY SINGLE ONE of the so called scandals that the media is trying to pin on my president.

      Please stay committed to the TRUTH, not media hysteria, it's so important.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous3:19 PM

      >>I am not attacking the President, but I am attacking this policy.

      Yeah, I'm not buying it. Your headline says otherwise. You are calling it 'The Obama Scandal'. How it that not pointing fingers? I think your anger and frustration at Bush are seeping into this conversation more than you might realize.

      When this is all said and done, will you backtrack on your attack, or will you let it stand? That remains to be seen.

      And, for the record, I have NEVER liked the idea of any infringement of my personal privacy, which is why I am not on Twitter, or Facebook, I don't use any GPS tracking software on my cell phone, I block any and every possible snoopers online...but this is the way of the world in this digital age, that's just how it is.

      I can hate it all I want, but it won't stop now or ever since fear is what drives our laws and fear is what put in place the apparatus. Unfortunately, it is what will keep all kinds of surveillance active and in place, on the streets, in buildings, online, anywhere a crime could be committed, you'll have someone watching to try to stop it. To think otherwise is really just naive, and in need of a reality check. It sucks, but it's the way of the world now.

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    4. Look I am not trying to be contrary, but I have HAD the facts about this for over ten years!

      I have been attacking this policy since the day I first learned of it.

      I'm ashamed to admit that I had essentially put it out of my mind after Obama was elected, though there was ample evidence to believe that it was still going on.

      Personally I do not think that all of our information should be gathered up, just in case one or more of us turns out to be a terrorist. Sorry I just don't.

      And regardless of who reported on it, so far nobody is discounting the facts revealed in the article.

      Currently the Right Wing is trying to spin this as Obama using the powers attained by Bush, and expanding them. I don't believe that is true, but at least the Right Wing are now addressing this issue.

      Rand Paul is trying to put himself out there as the one guy whose hands are clean on this issue, and that is also dangerous. And it is yet another reason that I would like to see Obama dismantle this program, or at least make it harder for future administrations to continue doing it without severe limitations and more checks and balances.

      Delete
    5. Anonymous4:41 PM

      Gryphen,

      You are overreaching, you are jumping to conclusions, and you are attacking the president. You said you hope Fox News kicks President Obama's ass over this! What about the other 2 branches of government that were involved in this? You said that this is a "Obama scandal that will stick." Why is it a scandal? No laws were broken. Why is it only an "Obama scandal?" All 3 branches of government were involved in this.

      I'm not excusing anything, or discounting the facts of the article either, but what happened is not the exactly the same as what the Bush administration did. When Bush did this, he did it without congress, without a warrant, or any kind of government oversight. Bush would just sign executive orders, and grab people's phone records. President Obama didn't do that. President Obama at least did it legally, according to the law.

      It's perfectly fine to disagree with the law, and have a debate about it, and fight for it's repeal, but to place ALL of the blame on President Obama, and want the president to be destroyed over this non-scandal, is wrong. These "scandals" are trickling out with the sole purpose of hurting President Obama, nothing more. And, all you're doing is helping. Just because you don't like the law, doesn't make President Obama evil, or a criminal.

      And, despite all the poutrage, (from the usual culprits) the Patriot Act is not going to be repealed any time soon. President Obama can't dismantle the Patriot Act, only congress can. The next president will do the same thing, and I doubt there will be this much poutrage from the media, Glenn Greenwald, and the usual suspects.

      Delete
    6. Anonymous7:02 PM

      Shit like this is meant to divide the Progressives just as the TeaParty has divided the Conservatives. I don't want a Republican Administration in the Whitehouse in 2016 but if enough Libs keep harping on Obama then that's what we'll have. I'd like to see at least another 4 years of a Democratic Administration to help steer this country forward, but when people jump on this kind of bandwagon we get closer to a Rubio or Ted Cruz Whitehouse.

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    7. Anonymous3:35 AM

      And folks we have a winner... 7:02PM you take the intertubes today with your very astute and to the point post. Just look at all the Obama haters jumping on this before they have all the FACTS (not just propaganda from some blowhard like Greenwald), it's like the dopes who watch Faux News getting their knickers in knots over the propaganda spewed on that show day in and day out.
      This will NOT stick, it was not illegal. It has been happening since before Hoover.

      Delete
  12. Anonymous2:15 PM

    Glenn Greenwald is a dick. He's had it out for Obama from the get-go and is a FAR Leftwing pot stirrer. I would take pretty much EVERYTHING he writes with a HUGE grain of salt, as his agenda is one that is not, nor has ever been supportive of this administration. He is an opportunistic dickwad who LOVED George Bush. LOVES the GOP, and has been looking for some kind of way to interject himself into the fray of so called 'scandals' for awhile now. This is not new, it's not a scandal and it's been driven by a media hungry for sensationalism.

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  13. Anonymous2:17 PM

    Ugh, the NSA “scandal” is already hurting my brain. The stupid burns! So here’s what you need to know about it:

    1. Congress voted to legalize expansive surveillance powers in 2001 (The USA PATRIOT ACT), 2008 (retroactive immunity for warantless NSA wiretaps in the FISA Amendments Act), and in 2012 (renewing the FISA Amendments Act).

    2. Congress declined to force administration transparency/honesty on secret interpretations of the law in 2001 (USA PATRIOT ACT), 2008 (NSA immunity), 2011 (the Wyden amendment to the NDAA, which would have required interpretations not be secret) & 2012 (the similar Markley amendment to the NDAA). Those last two actually got voted down, which means Congress voted to enable secret government legal interpretation.

    3. All of the opprobrium you should feel at the government’s ridiculously broad surveillance powers needs to be directed at CONGRESS, which keeps approving them while voting they stay secret.

    4. The NSA, despite the broad nature of its warrant request, did nothing illegal, and the supposed illegality of the FISC procedure has not been demonstrated.

    5. The information the NSA is collecting is metadata, not content (like a wiretap), and not account names. Uncovering personally identifiable information would require separate warrants to do so. This was a pattern analysis, not really mass surveillance as we traditionally understand it. Anyone who calls this a “wiretap” is probably stupid or didn’t read the order.

    6. Judging by the order (and not the media coverage about the order), it seems to have an end date of July 19, sucking up data for the three months before. That would make its effective start date April 19, which is the day Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was arrested in Boston. Not saying there’s a link, but the timing might turn out not to be coincidental.

    7. No one will respond to this by voting out their representatives or Senators during the next election because, despite the temporary outcry, Americans (including the Congressmen and Senators who tried to add amendments) don’t care about this very much.

    8. None of you will stop voluntarily giving Verizon (or AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile, etc.) your personal information out of the fear that they might be legally compelled to hand it over to an intelligence agency through a legal process. Because, at the end of the day, you really don’t care about this very much either. At least, you don’t care enough to go out of your way to change it.

    http://joshuafoust.com/nine-dashed-off-points-on-the-nsa-scandal/

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    1. Anonymous3:41 PM

      Well stated. What is your opinion on this Jesse?

      Delete
    2. Anonymous4:43 PM

      Some people don't care about facts. They just want something to be angry about. I doubt any of the whiners will do any hard work to actually get the law repealed.

      Delete
  14. Anonymous2:22 PM

    All three branches of government are involved in reviewing and authorizing intelligence collection under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. Congress passed that act and is regularly and fully briefed on how it is used, and the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court authorizes such collection.

    Warrantless surveillance began shortly after the September 2001 terrorist attacks. The Bush administration began a secret surveillance program in 2001, asking AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth to turn over communications records to the National Security Agency (NSA). The agency’s goal was “to create a database of every call ever made” within the nation’s borders, the USA Today reported in 2006.

    http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/06/06/2111741/what-you-should-know-about-the-governments-massive-domestic-surveillance-program/

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  15. Anonymous2:34 PM

    Here's Exactly Who to Blame in Congress for Authorizing Government Spying

    The National Security Agency and the FBI don't bear all the responsibility for the revelation that Verizon is turning phone records over to the government. That responsibility lies with the members of Congress who voted for the PATRIOT Act, as well as extensions of it and the provisions related to collecting those records. Over 100 people currently serving in the House and Senate voted for the original Act in 2001. Last year, over 300 voted to extend a key provision.

    We looked at seven Congressional actions generally and five in particular to assess how the government's power to collect data has evolved. From October 2001 to last December, Congress continually voted to expand or continue the government's power to collect private data, ostensibly to bolster efforts to stop terrorist activity. In addition to the PATRIOT Act, Congress has also renewed provisions of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, or FISA — the law that established the court which issued the Verizon order.

    http://news.yahoo.com/heres-exactly-blame-congress-authorizing-government-spying-164654883.html

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  16. Anonymous2:55 PM

    US Senator Saxby Chambliss (R-GA) on the NSA's collection of Verizon telephone records: "This is nothing particularly new. This has been going on for seven years under the auspices of the FISA authority, and every member of the United States Senate has been advised of this."

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/06/06/transcript-dianne-feinstein-saxby-chambliss-explain-defend-nsa-phone-records-program/

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  17. Anonymous4:10 PM

    Everybody in DC Except Rand Paul Knew About ‘Verizongate’

    It seems like everybody in Washington D.C. except Rand Paul knew about “VerizonGate”, which Congress says has been going on for over seven years.

    Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) released an outraged statement in response to “new shocking revelation” of the “NSA extensive seizure and surveillance” of Americans’ Verizon phone records: “If the President and Congress would obey the Fourth Amendment we all swore to uphold, this new shocking revelation that the government is now spying on citizens’ phone data en masse would never have happened.”

    Yes, it’s “shocking” to some, but not to anyone who actually works in DC, and certainly not to Congress, since Congress knew about it for the last seven years.

    Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) and Saxby Chambliss (R-GA) said that they have been kept informed under the law and that the surveillance is legal. Chambliss added that the court order lasts three months and was a regular renewal of the legal authority, which has been going on for seven years.

    Speaker John Boehner pretended not to know anything about it in order to play the Darrell Issa Scandal Monger Game, but of course, he voted to reauthorize the Patriot Act several times, calling it “a critical tool” to protect the American people.

    David Corn busted that little game up, along with ABC, by pointing out that Congress was briefed on the matter and hello, small but critical detail: Bush never got permission to spy on Americans, while the Obama administration is working “within an existing legal framework to get subpoenas, warrants, and orders to access these records.”

    The Speaker had to begrudgingly admit that Congress had authorized it. Jason Easley broke it down earlier:


    President Obama and the White House were not going rogue. The Senate had been briefed on, and has known about the program for years. Glenn Greenwald’s big story has turned out to be nothing that wasn’t already known in Washington for years. A 2011 letter from the White House to Sen. Ron Wyden (D-OR) notes that members of Congress have been briefed on this program in multiple ways since 2009.

    Don’t like those laws? Bernie Sanders directs you to Congress– where laws are made. Where has Rand Paul been? He’s kicked up quite a fuss over the Patriot Act in the past, so we can only hope that he’s at least read parts of it.

    ....The truth is that Republicans were hoping to use “Verizongate” to add to their list of fictional Obama scandals, until the press and the White House reminded them that they had voted for the very Patriot Act that authorized said Verizongate, and made it legal.

    Reboot scandal generator. But, outrage!

    http://www.politicususa.com/rand-paul-verizongate-clueless.html

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  18. Anonymous4:12 PM

    John Boehner Kills the Obama Verizongate Scandal Before It Even Starts

    ...The mainstream media is already rejecting Greenwald’s drama by asking if this is really a scandal. People are quickly concluding that this isn’t a scandal.

    It may not be a scandal, but a Patriot Act is an important policy issue. The bigger scandal is that congressional Republicans and Democrats continue to support a piece of law that gives any president such broad powers.

    Verizongate may turn out to be the shortest Obama scandal in history.


    http://www.politicususa.com/john-boehner-kills-obama-verizongate-scandal-starts.html

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  19. Anonymous4:29 PM

    David Corn busted that little game up, along with ABC, by pointing out that Congress was briefed on the matter and hello, small but critical detail: Bush never got permission to spy on Americans, while the Obama administration is working “within an existing legal framework to get subpoenas, warrants, and orders to access these records.”

    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/06/nsa-spying-obama-scandal

    In recent months, the Republicans have been desperately hunting for an Obama scandal—with little success. A Benghazi cover-up? Oops, the emails released by the White House (at the urging of the GOPers) showed nothing improper. A Nixonian scheme to use the IRS to punish political enemies? The Treasury Department inspector general who investigated the IRS targeting of tea-party-ish groups seeking nonprofit status declared there was no evidence this political profiling was prompted by anyone outside the IRS division. With the revelation that the National Security Agency is sweeping up the telephone records of Americans suspected of no wrongdoing, though, the Obama gang may finally have a real scandal on its hand—not a scandal of wrongdoing or unethical conduct, but one of government overreach. Yet, as White House officials are already pointing out to reporters, if this is a scandal, it is a bipartisan scandal, for Congress has approved this wide-ranging, super-secret, domestic surveillance program.

    At issue is the disclosure of a highly classified court order—issued by a judge on the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court—that forced a Verizon subsidiary to hand over on a daily basis to the NSA call logs for all of its customers. This included calls between the United States and abroad and calls within the United States, including local telephone calls. The order does not cover the content of the communications; it compels the Verizon unit to give the NSA what's known as "metadata," such as the time, length, and location of calls—not the customer's identity. But the snoops at the NSA can use this data to look for patterns and check to see if any of these phone numbers are being used for communications to or from suspected terrorists.

    The order does not permit Verizon to reveal its existence. And there's no telling if similar orders went out to other telecommunications companies.

    http://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/verizongate-scandal-obamas-phone-spying-distasteful-legal/story?id=19338669#.UbDNdutAviY

    ...But that comparison misses a larger point: Bush never got permission from courts to listen in on those phone calls. Obama's administration, on the other hand, is working within an existing legal framework to get subpoenas, warrants, and orders to access these records. That represents a big difference in terms of constitutional checks and balances.

    In a 2007 speech by then-Sen. Barack Obama, the presidential hopeful pledged to chase terrorists "without undermining our Constitution and our freedom." He promised to work with the legal system set up by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) of 1978, in which court judges can secretly review the government's plans to track suspected terrorists in advance. "That means no more illegal wire-tapping of American citizens," Obama added:

    "No more national security letters to spy on citizens who are not suspected of a crime. No more tracking citizens who do nothing more than protest a misguided war. No more ignoring the law when it is inconvenient. That is not who we are. And it is not what is necessary to defeat the terrorists. The FISA court works. The separation of powers works. Our Constitution works. We will again set an example for the world that the law is not subject to the whims of stubborn rulers, and that justice is not arbitrary."

    By getting a court order to force Verizon to turn over its customers' call records, Obama stuck to the substance of his pledge -- if not to its spirit.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Anonymous4:32 PM

    Gryphen and everyone else who is tossing Obama under the bus please keep in mind who passed this act for a second time now which means it is in affect thru 2017. With technology advancement there is good and bad-cell phones are being used for more than talking-think the Boston marathon bombings. Terrorists can blow up numerous explosives with their phones and no I am not overreacting.
    This is a different world we live in. It is not a world Obama chose-we all chose it. Our phone records are stored already which is why police can get a warrant to our records if we are suspected of a crime. Google traces and profiles our Internet viewing and purchases.

    The difference between bush and Obama in this case is that under the Obama administration it is being done legally and openly.

    If anyone wants off the grid then get rid of phones, computers, credit cards, drivers license, passports, etc.

    This is the brave new world and the genie has been let out of the bottle.
    All we can do is to demand that due process is applied and that things are kept out in the open.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous4:59 PM

      Finally, a voice of reason and reality. Yes, it is how it is, and I've tried to point that out to Jesse.

      I am in FULL agreement that I dislike the reality, but it is the reality. Technology has made this the case and there is no going back now. Smartphones are easily tracked. If you use one, you are part of the problem. Facebook has been spying forever, unabashedly. If you don't like it, get off of Facebook. Twitter is notorious for surveillance. Why aren't people up in arms about that? Why aren't people screaming about Apple and Samsung? Why is it an issue all of a sudden with OBAMA?

      How convenient that this 'breaks' into the news cycle right after Susan Rice is promoted? Hmmmm, it's all pretty fishy and Glenn Greenwald has his grimy hands all in this and he's been gunning for this administration since day 1.

      I really appreciate your post. It pisses me off when Obama gets blamed for every goddamn thing that ever happens as if he is a dictator. Talk to congress, talk to both the Dems and GOP who lost their minds after 9/11. Can you even IMAGINE the stink that would have been if Obama had refused to re-authorize the Patriot Act? They would have had him for lunch. The screams of 'soft on terror' and 'danger to this country', blah, blah, would have been on high pitch. So he did the best he could do, and is adhering to the existing law. It's not a secret, EVERYONE in Congress has been apprised of it, and it's damn bullshit for them to feign otherwise.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous6:08 PM

      thanks for your comment. i am used to yet easily riled still over the right wing maligning the president every single fracking day but when the left jumps on the bandwagon too it just makes me nuts.

      so easy for everyone to referee the game from their sofas isn't it?

      and you are right-had obama even tried to get rid of the patriot act the right would say he was making it easier for muslims to infiltrate our country which is his real agenda!

      there is no privacy anymore. the republicans are even in vaginas! you can't get healthcare, shop, drive,with an expectation of privacy. how many intersections are now "policed" by cameras?

      thanks for your comment. i don't know how barack and michelle get up everyday and face this constant onslaught of bs.

      Delete
  21. Anonymous4:35 PM

    I don't understand how this is "news'. I've continually read about the practice since the patriot act came into being. It has been reported by numerous sources all over the civilized world. Now it's Obama's fault? Give me a break.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Leland5:53 PM

    As many have pointed out already - ad nauseum, in fact - the culprit here is the Patriot Act.

    Can we ever get rid of it? Probably not.

    Why? Because the vast majority of the population hasn't a clue the type of powers that Act gives to the government over surveilling its citizens. As an example, when I tell people the FBI can go to your library and demand your reading list, they laugh.

    I have to say that the only thing I found in this string that was not supportable (other than the idiots who are trying to blame Obama for what Bush started illegally) is Gryphen's claim this is a scandal that will stick to Obama.

    The Congress is falling all over itself trying to destroy this as a "scandal" because THEY wrote the damned law when they finally recognized Bush was grossly violating basic law - not to mention the Constitution! And they recognize that if the population actually DID find out what the Patriot Act allows them to have done, THEN there might be a tremendous stink. (Or at least, I would HOPE there would be.)

    NIBBLE NIBBLE NIBBLE.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Anonymous6:11 PM

    p.s. if palin is blaming obama and you are blaming obama are you then saying the skank is right?
    c'mon, if palin is saying something you know it is wrong. she doesn't do "right" because she is a far right idiot.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Anonymous6:58 PM

    I guess I'm not too concerned. When we need weed, we pretty freely discuss it via text or cellphone calls. I guess they might be looking for folks that are up to some serious malfeasance that could affect the national security, so really, who cares. Have we heard of anyone that has been taken into custody because of this? The Government has our number regardless of whether we know it or not. In this day and age they are watching all of us and then weeding out those that wish to cause massive harm to others. Most of us need not be concerned.

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  25. Jesse I generally agree with your viewpoints but you are completely wrong on this. Given you obvious sophistication with communications technologies of the 21st Century you should know nothing you post online or say over ANY Network is truly private. While I'd prefer that kind of scrutiny not necessary the FACT of the matter is it IS NECESSARY to guard us against those who would do we Americans harm. Harm like portable nuclear devices planted in population centers. The destruction of infrastructure like TAPS of any of our Nuclear Power Plants. What if this kind of scrutiny prevented you waking up one morning to be greeted with the light of a nuclear blast or read in the APD about the hundreds of children that died because some lunatic planted an engineered virus in our school system?

    And this goes back a LOT further than GWB. Ever heard of Echelon?


    Please take the time to read this 2006 article

    Trading liberty for security? A misuse of Benjamin Franklin.
    Since the commencement of the War on terror, we have heard various iterations of a famous statement by Ben Franklin from 1755.

    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
    http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/meyer/060911

    ReplyDelete
  26. physicsmom7:20 PM

    A Democratic pundit said today that Obama is between a rock and a hard place. If he discontinues the phone data mining program and we have an attack, he will be blamed for not doing "everything" he could to prevent it. It's a sad state of affairs. I agree with you Jesse, in principal. However, I have come to believe, over time, that we cannot expect privacy in any digital communications ever again.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Beldar NSA Conehead8:06 PM

    Gryphen, you've got some really sharp blog buddies here asking you to reflect carefully on the details and context of this so-called domestic spying scandal before joining the Obama lynch mob.

    So often in the past, you've correctly identified the partisan right-wing dung beetles behind the unjustified cries of scandal and - once all the knowable facts are available - you just might find the same thing going on here.

    Remember "BENGHAZI!!!!"?

    ReplyDelete
  28. Anonymous10:37 PM

    I guess I just don't understand what people want.

    Either the government was at fault for not gathering enough information to prevent events like the Boston Bombing - or the information gathering they do manage is a grievous breech of our privacy and must be stopped.

    You have to pick one. You can't have it both ways. Safety or privacy. Pick one.

    And stop blaming the current administration for policies put in place several years (and sometimes decades) before they even took office. Cleaning up after the last administration has been an arduous task and I'm betting there are still worse policies out there yet to be discovered.

    -OzMud

    ReplyDelete

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