In court papers filed today (PDF), the United States Department of Justice requested that George W. Bush, Richard Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Colin Powell, Condoleezza Rice and Paul Wolfowitz be granted procedural immunity in a case alleging that they planned and waged the Iraq War in violation of international law.
Plaintiff Sundus Shaker Saleh, an Iraqi single mother and refugee now living in Jordan, filed a complaint in March 2013 in San Francisco federal court alleging that the planning and waging of the war constituted a “crime of aggression” against Iraq, a legal theory that was used by the Nuremberg Tribunal to convict Nazi war criminals after World War II.
"The DOJ claims that in planning and waging the Iraq War, ex-President Bush and key members of his Administration were acting within the legitimate scope of their employment and are thus immune from suit,” chief counsel Inder Comar of Comar Law said.
The “Westfall Act certification,” submitted pursuant to the Westfall Act of 1988, permits the Attorney General, at his or her discretion, to substitute the United States as the defendant and essentially grant absolute immunity to government employees for actions taken within the scope of their employment.
Okay I have defended this administration through thick and thin, and often have taken buckets of crap for doing so.
But I simply CANNOT defend this action.
All Presidents, in office or not, have a unique club. They back each other up, it is part of the deal.
ReplyDeleteI'm not surprised.
DeleteThe DOJ is covering up for Sarah Palins many crimes along with the DHS and SS and FBI.
So I'm not shocked at ALL that they would give a xPOTUS a pass.
Our country is run by the Bankers. Look up Gurudas
and the book "Treason-The new world Order".
BTW Gurudas was very spiritual person. Writing books on crystals and flowers essences before he did a 180 and wrote this book. Then he "committed" suicide.... The manuscript of his new book disappeared. There are many Youtubes of interviews before he was murdered. We are not two parties but ONE, controlled by Wall street and corporations!
I can!
ReplyDeleteIt angers me, but you don't want to set the precedent of one president going after the administration of the other. If Obama arrested the Bushies, the next GOPer would probably arrest him for the same, and that would be the end of our democracy.
I'm sorry if that sounds hysterical, but it's true. You're not going to step down peacefully and hand over power to the next guy if you think you're going to get arrested.
The Bushies should be tried IN AN INTERNATIONAL COURT.
The Hague has jurisdiction over this, too -- in fact, they probably have more jurisdiction for international war crimes.
The HAGUE should be arresting them -- in fact, I don't think any of those asshats have traveled outside of the country since they left. They must think -- AND/OR KNOW -- that they'll get hauled in if they do.
PS -- Pinochet got nabbed in Spain, and his crimes were against his own people.
The Administration was stupid to take this step though...unless maybe they're afraid that THEY'LL be liable to be tried for war crimes.
It is easy to defend, actually.
Too true...unfortunately and you know that the crazy branch of the all but moribund 'Grand Old Party' of old would drool at the prospect of going after Obama for all the lies they made up about him in the first place.
DeleteThere is still the Hague, which is why these dubious people have to be REAL careful if and when they ever leave the U.S.
M from MD
Benghazi would be a blip in the sea compared to the outrage - and civil war - if the administration did anything else. Why do people expect miracles of epic proportions from the current administration when they won't even vote it a majority in congress.
ReplyDeleteA few things to get upset about - the GOP taking the voting rights of minorities back to the 1950s, women being treated as serfs and baby machines, and the top 2% of US society stealing from the 98% all the time.
Yup!
DeleteSo very true!
DeleteExcellent points!
DeleteI suppose it's for the same reason that Ford pardoned Nixon? That to allow prosecution would be a huge distraction from the main things we should be doing.
ReplyDeleteActually, that was also the argument I heard re the Supremes giving the election to Bush rather than Gore, over the chads. Supposedly over the chads ?
Of course, just like the "too big to fail" and other ways Wall street profited while the middle class took the hit, it sets up two versions of justice and accountability. The middle class I am talking about is the one that has already had SO MUCH of its wealth diverted to te 1%.
But is it possible the DoJ proposes but Pres Obama will reject it?
If not, sure looks like a pattern, a plan.
Outrageous, but totally predictable
ReplyDeleteOne hand washes the other.
In a 2016 election, this DOJ decision might induce the Bush cartel to not pull a Karl Rove on Hillary.
Politics is a really dirty game at the top, a fact which $tupid $arah has yet to realize, as she was nothing more than a hail mary pander to the ravenous hordes of Teabaggery.
Palin never got close enough to the inner circles of power to have a fucking clue as to what goes on.
There's undoubtedly a tit for tat involved here
ot
ReplyDeleteTrump Sued for $40 Million Over Fraudulent ‘Trump University’
Why not Scarah?
Can someone sue a lesser Bush Administration flunky and get the key criminals under deposition and in testimony?
It is so wrong that any of these crooks get by with all the murder and mayhem they perpetrated.
Not a fan.
ReplyDeleteNot cool Mr. President.
Not cool.
They all cover former administrations asses.
ReplyDeleteThey do this because they themselves don't want to be dragged into court
by the next administration. Can you imagine a GOP administration in the next few years and what they would do to those from the Obama years? You will never get a President (unless you get a tbagger in the next roundup) go after a previous administration. We would be naive to ever think it would be any other way. Sucks though.
So then, it really is "anything goes". Disgusting.
DeleteAnon 7:39
DeleteBasically, yes. It always has. What surprises me is that for some reason everyone looks at this President like hundreds of years of
presidential culture should end with him. Why?
angela,
DeleteIt's because of all that "hopey changey" stuff he talked about. Some people seem to have taken him seriously, which proves how naive people are.
The thing is, they will Still go afyer Obama when his term us up. Guarantee it. Mark my words. So what does playing nice get him? I want him to take a stand. They will go agter him anyway.
DeleteAnon 9:06 I believe someone noted that we can't even win the house. So how do you suppose all of this Hope and Change manifests itself? A dictatorship----maybe? The change was supposed to be in the people who voted. Well look who voted the house in and look who sat out in 2010.
DeleteAnon 9:26 It will be a whole lot harder for them to do this if we get a dem in for 2016.
ReplyDeleteA poll released August 23rd by Public Policy Polling reveals just how formidable a presidential candidate Hillary Clinton is and just how bad the GOP brand has become in the Buckeye State. Ohio, the quintessential swing state that went for George W Bush twice and then delivered narrow margins of victory for Barack Obama twice, is poised to become solid blue in 2016. If an election were held today in Ohio, Hillary Clinton would trounce Rand Paul 51-36 and crush Paul Ryan 52-36. Even Chris Christie would have trouble keeping from losing by double digits managing to lose to Clinton by a still decisive 45-36 margin. In fact, not a single GOP presidential hopeful polls better than 36 percent versus Clinton in Ohio, the ultimate must win state in presidential contests. Most amusingly, the Buckeye State’s Governor, John Kasich fares worst of all, losing by an epic 18 point margin to Clinton 53-35.
Apparently there is nothing like having a Republican Governor and legislature to help voters see the folly of voting GOP. Ohio voters oppose the recently signed restrictions on abortion rights 40-34. Furthermore, the state’s voters also now favor gay marriage 48-42, a 29 point reversal from just two years ago when voters opposed same sex marriage by a 55-32 spread. The state that John Boehner calls home and that once gave George W. Bush the necessary electoral votes to eke out an electoral college victory over John Kerry is in danger of being hopelessly lost for the GOP.
The Republican Party apparently learned nothing from the national drubbing Mitt Romney took in the 2012 election. Even in that contest Ohio was regarded as a toss up and Barack Obama’s margin of victory was less than three points, 50.58-47.6. To put the poll results in perspective, if Hillary Clinton and Rand Paul became their party’s respective nominees in 2016, and Clinton held her 15 point advantage, Ohio would deliver a bigger margin for the Democrats in 2016 than Arizona, Mississippi, South Carolina, Alaska or Montana did for the Republicans in 2012. The Republican Party has veered so far to the dysfunctional hard right that they run the risk of getting annihilated in the pivotal state of Ohio.
http://www.politicususa.com/2013/08/25/hillary-clinton-posts-crushing-leads-ohio-buckeye-state-swings-solid-blue-state.html
Without taking any sides for a moment, I hope people understand this is NOT about immunity from criminal prosecution.
ReplyDeleteThis is a civil lawsuit and the immunity that is being claimed is immunity from civil suits while acting within the bounds of their executive positions.
The Westfall Act, in the case of federal employees, allows absolute immunity from state-law tort actions when their conduct is discretionary in nature. What can be argued here is whether or not the Act rightly applies.
My own desire is to see the lot of them tried in the International Criminal Court. What I see at the moment is nothing more than countering a civil suit by raising the issue of whether or not it will stand up first of all in purely legal terms.
Thank you for this explanation!
DeleteGreat post & point. I see most here chose to ignore your insightful post or they just trolls pretending they are outrage President Obama.
DeleteFolks who seem to be over-reacting here might read a few excerpts from Justice for Crimes Against Humanity by Mark Lattimer, Philippe Sands - 2003 - Page 74 (results 2 and thereafter of 11 in the excerpts).
DeleteIt might answer some questions.
I have often wondered just what is in the letter left on the Oval Office desk that an outgoing president writes an incoming. As much as I respect and admire President Obama, he has sure disappointed me so many times.
ReplyDeleteThere is NO goddamn excuse for giving them immunity!
ReplyDeleteSorry but it really shouldn't be much of a surprise. After all, this is the president who continues to sign the NDAA with its indefinite detention provision. We are no longer a democratic republic, we have become a fascist nation on the road to a police state.
ReplyDeletebls
Ok firebagger....go back if you can remember when the Patriot act was signed by BUSH~
DeleteBut if you read what I posted above, we are NOT REALLY a two party system but a system of corporations and wall street and ThANKS to citizens united its even worse.
So spare the firebagging and head on over to RedA$$ ville and spew your NDAA crap.
You're all pissed off about the NDAA but not a peep about the Patriot act that started it all?
Yeah tard. And cram the republic crap where the sun don't shine.
Calm down, Gryph. There is absolutely NOTHING ELSE that the Obama Administration can do here. The Right grumbles a lot about taking back America. This is the one thing that would put them on the streets. In other words, shut up and hope for an International Tribunal to catch them at an airport somewhere. Then the Obama Administration can mount a token protest to placate the Right. Till then, stop being stupid; do NOT pull a 2010 on the Democratic Party here !!!
ReplyDeleteNot impressed either. You can be fucking sure if Skanky became prez in 2017 the first thing on her agenda would be prosecuting Obama.
ReplyDeleteOh geez. No. Her first item would be granting herself and her husband immunity from any and all illegal acts committed by them from birth until death. Then she would set up her camera op to appoint herself Queen of the World. That makes the girls all Princesses, and thus, starts a stampede to the WH of eligible young 'princes.' Then she will have to deal with foreign policy (just who would she name Sec. of State. or does hse just dissolve all government at this point?) Then Jesus returns and takes away all the good Christians (no one from the GOP gets to go!) and then Sarah's reign of terror can continue.
DeleteSomething that will NEVER occur. Good idea to stop worrying and writing about it/her. She's a 'has been'! Over used and turned away!
DeleteThis is why we have terrorists
ReplyDeleteBls you ignorant troll go back to your clown site where hypocrisy and lies are cherished and cheered
ReplyDeleteopen your eyes. look around. the police are paramilitary units now. swat serves legal papers. ndaa and nsa and the 'patriot' act.
Deleteignorant.
Who?
Before you go around throwing out "ignorant troll" remarks, do some research about NDAA, indefinite detention, and the meaning of fascism. Then tell me where I'm wrong.
DeleteGiving them immunity pretty much says that they are guilty. Otherwise, why would they need immunity?
ReplyDeleteThat's a real way of looking at it :)
DeleteWelcome to the club, Gryphen. My disillusionment with the Obama administration began even before Obama took his first oath of office - when he picked that self-righteous fat homophobic fuck Rick Warren to give the invocation at his inauguration. Since then it's been a real roller coaster ride with a few highs but many more lows. Look up their inexcusable behavior during the Shirley Sherrod incident for the almost perfect encapsulation of where the Obama administration is really coming from.
ReplyDeletePolitical disillusionment is painful but it's really necessary. It does us no good not to see these politicians for exactly who and what they are, based on their own actions. Some are good and just - and I do credit the Obama administration with theirs as well - but some are an absolute betrayal of humanity. Just because we may have voted for them does not require us to twist ourselves into pretzels defending or trying to justify the latter.
I have a simple rule that makes my life a lot less stressful - i.e. if I would have criticized Bush for doing it, then I'm going to criticize Obama for doing it.
I’m disappointed but not surprised. It’s just part of the deal making that goes on. I do think there was something behind the Mena airport scandal involving Clinton and Bush Senior; it’s one of the conspiracies I find believable. You can’t get to the level of president without scratching a lot of backs, and although Obama is genuinely hated by some (Trump and Koch Bros) none of the presidents will break ranks with each other; they know too much.
ReplyDeleteI vote Democratic because they have to PRETEND to care about the rest of us.
Oh shut up baldy.
DeleteOn that same note, I don’t think Biden will ever be president because he’s seen as the loose cannon.
ReplyDeleteGmafb. Under bush it was a million times worse. When chimpy implemented his laws as if he was king you sat digging in your ass calling youself a freakin patriot. Gtfoh troll
ReplyDeleteI don't think this is a defense of the Bush administration. I think this "defense" is for the presicident this case would set if this woman won. I'm on her side - nothing would please me more than Bushco in jail -but it would really open up a pandora's box.
ReplyDeleteI agree. There are many families in the middle east who have lost loved ones to our drone strikes in what are deemed "civilian casualties". The surviving family members could easily sue the Obama administration, and some may take that route after he is out of office. That would leave it up to his successor to grant him this same "immunity" that he granted to Bush et al.
DeleteWhen was the last time a POTUS was arrested and tried? The best we seem to be able to do is impeachment. That ship has sailed!
ReplyDeleteIt was all over when the Dems took control of the House in 'O8 and Nancy Pelosi became Speaker of the House. First thing Nancy Pelosi said after the Dems took control was that prosecution of Bush was off the table. I was so angry when she said that! You know if the tables had been reversed that the Dem president would have been prosecuted, convicted and sent to the Hague. Politics ain't beanbag. Tired of deals being made!
ReplyDeleteIt was all over when the Dems took control of the House in 'O8 and Nancy Pelosi became Speaker of the House.
DeleteIn 2007-9 the House had 233 Democrats, 198 Republicans, and 4 vacancies. I think the word you want is "retained".
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0774721.html
Why would you defend an administration that's more secretive than ANY elected official in this countrys history?
ReplyDeleteAnonymous9:37 AM
DeleteWhy would you defend an administration that's more secretive than ANY elected official in this countrys history
*****
Why would you defend a administration that started a illegal war? Maybe THIS administration HAS to be "Secretive" to cover up the last POTUS?
Nobody is going to jail. This is a civil case. It's about monetary compensation. If it were to be successful, the best we can hope is that it would bankrupt them all.
ReplyDeleteIf anyone wants to read the complaint - http://witnessiraq.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/SalehBush.pdf
The complaint is for the conspiracy to commit aggression: and the crime of aggression.
The interesting thing is the claim is that the defendants were conspiring to commit aggression from 1998, before Bush ever got into office. The evidence to back this claim is cited.
It's worth a read if only to counteract some of the misleading information out there.
I'm sorry, but some of you seem to have strayed into LWNJ territory, over-reacting to a "procedural immunity" declaration, that in no way is "absolute immunity" like the status granted Richard Nixon after he resigned (before he was indicted).
ReplyDeleteCalm down, or become Emoprogs like Chris Hayes and Jane Hamsher and Glenn Greenwald - it's your choice.
You seriously need to remove your lips from Obama's ass, unless you want to remind people of how obscenely Peebots are attached to Sarah Palin. Obama is simply a politician, NOT God. He's long been a member of the 1% whose buddies are people like Larry Summers and Tim Geithner, and who is just as likely to appoint a right-wing asshole leftover from Bush's administration to positions in his own administration as he is to appoint the kind of Democrat we were under the mistaken impression we were voting for Obama to appoint.
DeleteIt really doesn't help when people like you turn a blind eye to the failings of the politicians of their own party. That just encourages Obama to act more like a Republican than he already does.
There's nothing like a calm, reasoned, informed response, I always say. ;)
DeleteAnonymous 1:04 pm, if you would be prepared to set aside your prurient images of lips and behinds, you might ask yourself, do I really value the rule of law?
If the answer is, sod the law, do not read on.
This has nothing to do with Obama. A civil suit has been brought against a bunch of people, who qualify under existing law, to be represented by lawyers from the DOJ, because the DOJ recognizes that personal liability tort claims against Federal employees implicate the interests of the United States.
Whatever a defendant has done, however heinous, in the USA he or she has a right to a defense. The ethical obligation of defense lawyers is to mount the best defense possible.
Where we are with this case: On June 13, the court ordered a briefing which allows Comar and lawyers from the DOJ until November to submit legal briefs which will allow the judge to determine whether the complaint should proceed to trial. Far from acting in a nefarious fashion, the DOJ is acting the way any defense lawyers should act. They are putting forward the reasons they think the case should not go to trial.
That's it. Rock on KaJo. (Is that one of these expressions that dates me?)
If people would had otganized and stayed on it it would had happened regardless of what they (dems) said
ReplyDeleteWhat on earth is that comment supposed to mean? Your middle school English teacher would be humiliated to have had you in her class.
DeleteAt least read your comments before you "publish" them.
She needs to refile at the Hague and make sure the are all trapped in the U.S.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to see any of them arrested as soon as they step one toe out of the U.S.
Treat them like Snowden. At least he didn't kill anyone.
I don't know how successful that would be. In 2006 the ICC turned down such a case.
DeleteIn a move that sends a strong signal about the future direction the Court will take, the Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court (ICC), Luis Moreno Ocampo, announced on Friday, February 10, that his office will not investigate alleged war crimes committed in Iraq by Coalition forces. His decision reinforces his commitment to ensure that the ICC adheres to its statute and addresses only the gravest violations when national courts fail to do so. [...]
Since 2003, Ocampo's office has received over 240 communications from victims, NGOs and other entities regarding the situation in Iraq. The vast majority of these communications have addressed the launching of military operations and the resulting loss of human life in the country, offering information and evidence for specific alleged offences. Under Article 15 of the Rome Statute, the treaty that establishes the ICC, Ocampo is legally bound to analyze all communications and supporting information received and determine whether there is a "reasonable basis" to proceed with a formal investigation based on that information.
The rest can be read here. See what you think.
http://www.globalpolicy.org/component/content/article/164/28546.html
Sure, Gryphen, it makes me a little squirmish, also, too, but in the real world - where many of us actually live - we're infinitely better off with President Obama at the helm than we would be with Good Ol' Gramps McCain, Mittens "Mitt" Romney, Rick "GOOGLE ME NOW!!" Santorum, The Screechy Wretch(tm), Rand Paul, Bobby "Bubba" Jindal, Ron Paul, Paul Ryan, Ryan Paul, Ron Ryan, Rand Paul, Ayn Rand, Ann Rand, Ayn Rayn, Melon Rind, Paul Ron, ANYONE named Bush, Eric "Can't" Cantor, John "Boner" Boehner, Shelly Bachmann-Turner Overdrive, Ted Cruz, Pablo Cruise, Christopher Christ Christy "Chris" Christ-like Christian Christie, Ken "Hootchie Cootchie" Cuccinelli, Herb Cain, Rick Perry, Steve Perry, Katy Perry, Newt "Newt" Gingrich, Donald "The Donald" Trump, Marco Rubio or the little Italian mouse Topo Gigio.
ReplyDeleteAnd that's a fact, Jack!
Thank you Beldar. We have to be certain that we don't undermine our own best efforts when expecting perfection from any POTUS.
DeleteThis one, President Barack Obama needs, IMO, to be 'shored-up' not torn-down by those of us who allowed the 2010 teapeople access to our representative democratic republic because 'we won' in 2008.
Operating in the gray areas of politics (and politicking) makes for much murky outlooks and misguided insights. We must maintain the vision without losing the day-by-day, step-at-time forward movement. Hang on in there reasonably sane good people.
dowl
I wonder why the media hasn't picked up this story.
ReplyDeleteBush the lesser should be sued for war crimes, and Dick Cheney too.
http://www.yesmagazine.org/peace-justice/why-an-iraqi-single-mom-is-suing-george-bush-for-war-crimes?utm_source=ytw20130816&utm_medium=email
The majority of you are idiots in the way you are responding...obvious you don't know what the hell you are talking about! They can still be gone after!
ReplyDeleteThanks Pal. Back at ya.
DeleteNo immunity after they check out. I would advise all of them to dress for the heat.
ReplyDeleteApologies if this has already been said but everyone knows that bush and Cheney had to get it passed in the house and senate before we went into Iraq right? So are we going to prosecute every member that voted yes including Hilary Clinton and the other democrats too? They covered themselves by following procedures. And bad guys get away with murder all the time. If gryphen decided to go to his neighbor's home and rob him of everything and then asked a bunch of friends to support the robbery and help him with it would only gryphen be the only one prosecuted? No.
ReplyDeleteCivil suits are the best way to go after individuals and good luck with that. We also had other countries right there with us going into Iraq so what about them?
As abhorrent as it is- it is a dominoe effect that would snarl up courts and our politics for years without an outcome that would make any of us happy.
Plus it would open up a whole can of worms for the repubs going after our current president for nothing at all but they would have the precedent set to do it.
Kajo a voice of reason. So easy to ref the games sitting on your sofa. Thank you kajo!
ReplyDeleteDitto and Double Ditto's to Alisa as well. Reading the links you gave in your earlier comments puts it in perspective.
DeleteThis outrage is funny from a guy who supposedly knows all this stuff about Palin that could bring her down but can't reveal the truth because he's "protecting his sources" or whatever. Collecting donations, too. In the past few days you have done nothing but help Sarah Palin's dumb ass by handing her quotes from people who agree with her to help her raise money and even agreeing with her yourself. Yet the President gets an entire post where you encourage people to bash him because in your mind he is supposed to be hauling a former President into court to punish him for something the entire world allowed him to do, as if this war is now ALL Barack Obama's fault and responsibility. Screw this blog, I'm out. What a bunch of bullshit.
ReplyDeleteTa Ta, Toodles! We'll miss you when you're gone!
DeleteWhen Obama or Pelosi do things I don't like, I keep thinking that if I were in their shoes, I might have done the same odious thing because of whatever realities they face. Sometimes an unappealing decision is the best one can do. We peons will never know all the facts and realities. So I give a lot of rope to the few politicians I trust: Obama, Pelosi, Warren, and a few others.
ReplyDeleteGranting immunity is an admission of criminal liability on the part of the Bush/Cheney Fascist Regime. Nuff said!
ReplyDeleteSometimes I wonder whether liberals accept that President Obama is actually President of the United States. Progressives and the left treat him as though he's supposed to cater to their every individual whim.
ReplyDeleteIt's OK to disagree with President Obama's positions. But please remember he is a politician. He's not Morgan Freeman playing President of the United States.
It is time to face the sad truth Obama is merely an extension and continuation of Bush policies - google "Liberal America Wake Up"
ReplyDeleteIt is time to face the sad truth Obama is merely an extension and continuation of Bush policies - google "Liberal America Wake Up"
ReplyDelete