An Australian priest who supports the ordination of women has been excommunicated by Pope Francis.
In the first such excommunication since the new pontiff took office Fr Greg Reynolds was dismissed in a letter from the Archbishop of Melbourne Denis Hart, which stated that “the decision by Pope Francis to dismiss Fr Reynolds from the clerical state and to declare his automatic excommunication has been made because of his public teaching on the ordination of women contrary to the teaching of the Church and his public celebration of the Eucharist when he did not hold faculties to act publicly as a priest.”
Archbishop Hart also told other priests in the archdiocese by letter that Fr Reynolds’s excommunication was “because of his public teaching on the ordination of women”, which are grounds for automatic excommunication.
Fr Reynolds is also a supporter of same-sex marriage and has attended rallies in favour of changing the definition of marriage. He has even reportedly presided at same-sex ceremonies.
He told National Catholic Reporter: “I am very surprised that this order has come under his watch; it seems so inconsistent with everything else he has said and done.”
The Pope says all the right things it seems, and has breathed new life into the Catholic church, but don't forget that when it comes to women he is no less misogynistic than his predecessors, and has done NOTHING to positively impact existing church doctrine.
And the church in the US is still operating just the way it did before Pope Francis put on the pointy Pope hat and played with the golden Pope scepter.
This from the BBC:
Roman Catholic Church official William Lynn has had his conviction for child endangerment reversed by a court in the US city of Philadelphia.
Monsignor Lynn was the first US Church official to be convicted in a criminal court for covering up sex abuse claims.
He was sentenced in 2012 to three to six years in prison but could now be released as early as Thursday.
The court said it had not been proven Mr Lynn had acted with the "intent of promoting or facilitating the crime".
Yep Popes may come, Popes may go, but the Catholic Church will always be the Catholic Church, and with their monetary resources and access to power ultimately nothing changes.
And it is VERY important to keep remembering this.
ReplyDeletePope Francis is NOT changing a single thing about the Catholic Church. Not.One.Thing. The Catholic Church has always promoted taking care of the needy. It has always criticized hoarding wealth at the expense of the poor.
It has also always been misogynistic and homophobic. Pope Francis is continuing that ugly legacy -- not reluctantly, and not with a mind to slow it down and then gradually change it. Pope Francis enthusiastically embraces the misogynistic, homophobic teachings of the Catholic Church, and he expects every priest under him to do the same. If they don't -- they are out. Not just out of their position in the Catholic Church. They are OUT of the fucking CATHOLIC CHURCH. Period.
That is the supposedly kinder, gentler pope for you all who keep posting your misty-eyed approval of the new guy. You all need a major wakeup call. You need to face the cold, hard reality. Which is that Pope Francis is no different than the old pope. Francis is only a lot better at PR than Benedict was. But underneath the surface, Francis looks exactly the same.
Wow.... Anon 12:44, you are so wrong it's amazing. I have close to 60 years experience of this church. I've witnessed 7 popes, and seen the ups and downs through the decades and Francis is a breath of fresh air. Because he is adhering to the church's misogynistic and homophobic stances, does not mean that HE himself is misogynistic and homophobic. It means that he's enough of a political animal with regards to how the church works (and how long change takes), that he knows he can't change things overnight. If he wants to stay alive, that is. He's definitely pushing the envelope, but knows he can only push it so far. He knew the social justice and hoarding wealth issues were ones he could push first because it was, as you say, *always* part of church teaching, and so could be seen as a returning to past ways, rather than pushing a brand new agenda.
DeleteHe is light years away from the previous pope in his views, and if you don't see this, you must be blind.
He's been pope for less than a year and he already has the right wing element of the church spluttering in rage. Give him a chance. Who knows how far he'll go? He's smart enough to know you can't so quickly push big change down people's throats. What he's doing is laying the groundwork for bigger changes in the future. Unless, of course, the right wingers knock him off and install one of their own as pope again....
I was baptized a Catholic, spent 12 years going to Catholic school and observing all the rules of the Catholic church, until I realized what man-made bullshit it all was, and began observing it from afar. So don't --- DO NOT -- preach at me about this pope, 3:11. I'm over 60 now and I've been observing the Catholic church, and it's popes, just as long as you have. You are a fool, an utter fool, to be hoodwinked by Pope Francis. He is a traditionalist through and through, and he is not going to substantially change anything. As I said, he is just a whole lot better than Pope Benedict at PR. Cleaning up after Vatican banking scandals or making the appropriate noises about pedophile priests, is utterly unrelated to changing or even attempting to change the TEACHINGS of the Catholic Church. The teachings that forbid female priests, artificial contraception, abortion even to save the life the mother, gay marriage, etc. Pope Francis is AGAINST ALL THESE THINGS. He will always be, as long as he is pope. He is not a reformer except in the most limited sense. Keep telling yourself he is, and you will be dooming yourself to extreme disappointment because you are living in a dream world.
Delete12:44
Hey, 3:29... I'm not gonna get into an argument about this. I, too, am over 60, spent all 14 years of my schooling in Catholic school, and left the church in my mid 20s. I, too, have spent years observing from afar, especially since my mom was Catholic till the day she died, over 20 yrs ago. In addition, I've spent years studying church history and doctrine (just trying to see where the hell they got some of that stuff)... I guess we'll have to agree to disagree and Francis. I don't expect him to walk on water, so won't be disappointed if he doesn't.
Delete"The Catholic Church has always promoted taking care of the needy. It has always criticized hoarding wealth at the expense of the poor."
DeleteI call shennaigans here. The RCC is probably the wealthiest entity on the planet. AND, they hoard it. No one even knows the extent of their venality.
And they are the worst hoarders pf wealth. All while crying that 'others' should alleviate the suffering of the poor.
The only time Jesus was angry (in the 'gospels'"
was when he threw the moneylenders out of the temple.
I wonder what he would say about the unimaginable hoarded wealth of 'his' church.
They are self-righteous frauds.
And the transplanted Argentininan is no better than the rest.
The B.
No surprise. Most organized religions are always attempting to put women down as second class citizens even though women tend to be the majority followers. Its kind of what republicans tried to do with the kinder less toxic hate speech (which they failed at miserably)---only things truly remain the same underneath.
ReplyDeleteWell stated. When the Catholic Church starts to excommunicate pedophile priests, instead of rotating them to an unsuspecting parish, I may look at them a little different. You are particularly correct about Francis begin better at PR.
ReplyDeleteO/T but I am doubled over with breathless laughter at this review of Baldy's ghostwriter's book. OMG, she and Sarah are such an utter and complete idiots! And this reviewer has a grand old time making fun of them.
ReplyDeleteHappy Holidays, Queen Elkunt of The North! A Review of Sarah Palin’s Christmas Book (Pt. 1)
Two weeks ago, Sarah Palin released her new book Good Tidings and Great Joy which was originally titled “A Happy Holidays IS A Merry Christmas” because fuck you, Hanukkah. Here’s how her ghostwriter describes it on Sarah’s Facebook page:
'This book is not about isolated trivialities. It’s not really just about gingerbread cookies, or stockings hung by the chimney with care, or the big fat man with the long white beard. It’s not about one holiday at all. It’s about that little baby wrapped in swaddling clothes who arrived long before hope and change became political manipulations. It’s about Christ and our ability to worship Him freely. It’s about America, and what liberty truly means in our day-to-day lives…'
Except here’s the much shorter synopsis I would’ve written because my words are awesome and have been known to smell of frankincense and myrrh:
'Celebrate Christmas the Christian conservative way, or the government will shoot you in the dick.'
Yup, that’s right. Sarah Palin somehow filled 232 thankfully small pages by boiling the War on Christmas down to its purest, ideological liquid form and shooting it all over the face a government-funded Nativity scene. (Plus recipes!)
http://www.thesuperficial.com/review-sarah-palin-good-tidings-and-great-joy-11-2013
Seasons Greetings, Titty-Titty-Gun-Gun! A Review of Sarah Palin’s Christmas Book (Pt. 2)
....Did you catch all that? No one even knows where Wasilla is, so it’s perfectly okay to say fuck the Constitution and non-Christians under our little rock where no one will ever find them, muahahahaha. Put that arrow in your Sarah Palin’s Guide to Circumventing Decency Quiver alongside this next gem: About to get sued for your Nativity scene? Throw some Rudolph in that shit and, BOOM, secular holiday display..
...As to the point of all this, if we don’t stop atheists now – and this is Sarah Palin’s actual, 100% point – America will become Soviet Russia because atheism always cause bad shit to happen while Christianity always causes good shit. There is absolutely zero historical evidence that can refute that. None. And don’t even bring up the Spanish Inquisition because Sarah Palin will tell you atheism’s track record makes it “seem like Disneyland.”
http://www.thesuperficial.com/review-sarah-palin-good-tidings-and-great-joy-part-2-11-2013
F*ck Me In The Solstice, Why Did I Do This? A Review of Sarah Palin’s Christmas Book (Pt. 3)
...Chapter 4 is all about the genuine “grit” of true American Christians, and before I even wade into that horseshit, I need to point out the deliciously oblivious irony of Sarah Palin using the title of a John Wayne movie when The Duke once wrote a letter to Ronald Reagan, Sarah’s other personal Lord and Savior, chewing him out for deliberately lying about the Panama Canal Treaty. History is fun!
http://www.thesuperficial.com/review-sarah-palin-war-on-christmas-book-chick-fil-a-11-2013
IT’S JESUS’ BIRTHDAY OR ELSE MUSLIMS!!! A Review of Sarah Palin’s Christmas Book (Pt. 4)
...If I haven’t mentioned it yet, Sarah Palin fucking loves Charles Dickens’ A Christmas Carol. She mentions it at least once a chapter and almost always in the context of the Christmas spirit transforming Ebenezer Scrooge into a kind, generous employer. And yet this is the same woman whose moose-knuckle turns into a fire hydrant at the mere mention of Walmart, a company that has probably looked into getting slavery back on the books more than once.
“VISION OF CHRISTMAS YET TO COME … IF THE MILITANT ATHEISTS AND SECULAR LIBERALS HAVE THEIR WAY”
Yup, that was a direct quote.
http://www.thesuperficial.com/review-palin-christmas-book-muslims-12-2013
DO NOT MISS THIS REVIEW! ALL four parts. It is a masterpiece!
@anon 1:15
Delete"Happy Holidays, Queen Elkunt of The North!"
Might wanna double check: I'm pretty sure she spells it with a 'c' and not a 'k'....
It's Over
ReplyDelete...But I see little way to look at the last week and not conclude that gay marriage will be the law of the land in every state in the country in the near future. Probably during the Obama presidency and maybe sooner still.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/its-over
Lutheran (translated: rebel Catholic) here. It's always been that way and always will be. Women are allowed to teach Sunday School and work in the kitchen, monitor the food bank, etc.
ReplyDeleteOne of the strangest things I ever saw in church was Super Bowl XL Sunday when the pastor's wife led the kids in prayer for the Seahawks to win. What The......
I kept my smart-mouthed remarks to myself, but once upon a time in southern New Jersey my aunt and uncle attended a Catholic church that organized a day when a priest would bless everyone's car. Surreal.
DeleteAgree w/you, IM. The Pope is new into this, so it will be interesting to see if he really does make some big changes along his path. I sincerely hope he does even though I've been a 'fallen away' Catholic for eons. I am watching him w/interest though - as I did Pope John.
ReplyDeleteAs a Church-abstinent Catholic, but as a student of the history of the Catholic Church, I have to both agree and disagree with the views here. Yes, Francis is just like his predecessors in refusing women the role of priests, despite the fact that the Church itself says that thwarting a priestly vocation is a grave sin. Yes, Francis is not real happy about the modern views toward the LGBT+ population.
ReplyDeleteBut keep in mind that the Catholic Church, like any massively monolithic entity, changes very slowly. In the early days of the Church, there were no celibacy requirements, meaning that although priests could not marry, they could keep a "wife" (who was granted that title absent the ceremony itself) and father children. Okay, this one didn't change for the better, I admit, since celibacy arose only as a way to make sure any property owned by a priest was inherited by the Church and not by family members.
But also, keeping company with boys was not considered a breach of celibacy.
What Francis has done, which is interesting, is pretty much announced that the Church can no longer focus on only abortion, gay rights, and birth control. Unlike the leaders of the Republican Party, Francis as leader of the Church is saying, Enough Already, shut UP about it.
Maybe.
Change to the Church -- massive change like the ordination of women -- will come, but only slowly. Francis may sit on the Rock of St Peter, but the people of the Church need to be the water flowing over the rock. Slowly, slowly, wear it down.
I'm betting Francis gives up on the No Birth Control rule first.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThank you for your skepticism re Pope Francis. It's disturbing that so many politicians and journalists have been quick to embrace him. And even more disturbing that many progressives are using his comments on capitalism and inequality as justification for political positions. What happened to 'separation of church and state'? Public policy, whether it's on abortion, women's equality, gay rights, or poverty should not be based on religious doctrine.
ReplyDeleteI just read that A&E caved too. The Duck Guy is back on the show.
ReplyDelete"The Duck Guy is back on the show. "
DeleteOH, OUR PRAYERS HAVE BEEN ANSWERED!!
PRAISE BE UNTO ALL MIGHTY ZEUS!!!
IT'S A FESTIVUS MIRACLE!!!!
(I've never seen the show - and never will - but I do carry the fashionable Duck Dynasty officially licensed lunch box that I purchased at Cracker Barrel while topping off my bad cholesterol)
I like this pope.
ReplyDeleteIn other topics, this is very true.
"Um, I've never seen so many disgusting comments in the media regarding a political figure. Take it back. Hillary is the only person other than Sarah who experienced this prior to 08.
Remember, Biden presented himself as a complete ignoramus in interviews with the same people Sarah was interviewed by and his gaffes were ignored. Sarah's interviews were cut and, in the Gibson one, parts where he AGREED with her were cut out.
I think this point is about DOUBLE STANDARDS.
Obama has never actually proven he's capable of being a dog catcher, or that he can speak intellectual, unscripted thoughts on important matters"
^Wingnut alert^...
DeleteThere is NO comparison between Hillary, Our POTUS and the cross eyed tarantula, get it?No double standards, Biden is a just a likeable man while Sarah is a colossal fucking cunt. Simply as that.
DeleteLet us remind people that democrats' human flaws, faux pas, and gaffes (some big) are completely ignored by the media. Comedians don't feel free to use innocent people as fodder for sick jokes. The beginning of "Undefeated" shows how crass the media is. I will say it again. If Obama were woman OR republican, he would be no higher in career than someone's assistant or intern. THAT is basically what this post is.
ReplyDeleteI remember back then. Crazy goons felt need to stalk every people who could possibly be connected to Sarah Palin and create these little fantasy worlds filled with exaggeration and outright lies. Sure, this happens to everyone in the media, but last I checked, people who work at TMZ aren't exactly respected and theyve been mocked and punkd by celebrities.
There is far more hate on sites run by liberals then anywhere else. Yes, some rightwing indep blogs contain similar comments, but people take great pains to push aside the nastiness at liberal blogs and hate gossip sites.
Here's some insight: you can ridicule, criticize and attack all you want libs. That doesn't erase your victims happiness. It just makes you look petty.Sarah has always had a strong, close family. No liberal's stupidity will change that, despite their stalking and best efforts in perpetuating double standards.
More ^wingnut alert^. Are you lost? Breitbart.com is thataway, if you're looking for mocking, crazy goons, hate gossip, and double standards.
DeleteSarah has always relied on her looks and faux xristianity to con the rubes. But, timei is about to change that. Tick tock, tick tock.
Delete
Delete"If Obama were woman OR republican, he would be no higher in career than someone's assistant or intern. THAT is basically what this post is." No, this post is about the pope. Are you lost?
Explanation for "Wingnut Influcks" Brancy just posted a little something comparing how Sarah Palin was SO mistreated, berated, and one nail short of fully crucified, by the libruls. The irony, of course, is she uses a Pantene commercial for (are y'all sitting down?)
DeleteSHAM POO as the jumping point for this most cra cra post she's ever written, since trying to match clothes to her adopted chocolate skinned baby and the abortion survivor you tube clip. Of course, "Bristol" gives a shout out to "Mom" and thanks her for leading the way for wimminfolk and pimp's wives everywhere.
What Sarah Palin and SHAM POO have in common, Zeus only knows!
As a former Catholic, I'm not surprised people are holding on the the thread of hope that the honeymoon with the new pope may be over so soon. What he says and what he does are two different things. Change in the Church takes more time than any one Pope's reign. Until something gets done to right some wrongs, I'm not buying the words alone. Don't get me wrong, I liked the new Pope, he seemed like someone willing to do something and not just give lip service and platitudes.
DeleteAs for the William Lynn reversal, it doesn't surprise me one bit either. How could he know what was in the hearts of those priests who forced themselves on innocent children? That wasn't his job, his job was to stamp "approved" on the requests to have them moved to the vatican or other parishes. Apparently, he didn't have access to newspapers, because the "episodes" and "incidents" were documented and published. The 15 priests who taught in the high school I attended for four years were moved in a two year period of time, and that's just ONE school. Some died of natural causes before the inquisition and weren't included in the 15.
5:07 Sarah's daughter #1 is finally facing facts (to a point!).
DeleteNo matter what you read about Sarah Palin today (and then review the responses to the article), the majority - 3/4+ are negative or very negative about her.
She is not liked or respected across the nation and it's not all 'liberals' with those feelings, Bristol honey! Try the Republican party that kept Sarah OUT of their last Convention in Florida when Romney ran for POTUS and lost!
I suspect the majority plus that follow her today do so only because she is such a disaster waiting to happen. She has proven to be nothing more than a joke, irresponsible, uneducated, inept, zero work ethic, not a leader, and time after time, a proven liar and fraud!
Bristol (or someone!) needs to get her mother off drugs - institutionalized and/or a substantial amount of help. It's her mother's fault! She ruined her own life as well as that of her children (two of which are still not raised!)
There are few in this country that would like to walk in the shoes of Sarah Palin.
I absolutely agree with all of you... new PR managers' work.
ReplyDeleteExactly as I predicted, it was all a PR stunt:
ReplyDeleteQUACK IS BACK: A&E Bringing Back Gay-Bashing ‘Duck Dynasty’ Star
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/a-e-ends-duck-dynasty-star-phil-robertson-s-suspension
He has been Pope for less than a year...the Church is almost 2000 years old...
ReplyDeletehe is not the dictator...there needs to be an understanding of how the Church works...SLOWLY
...and never forget he is a Jesuit. The FIRST Jesuit Pope.
Go back and read the things he said on that airplane back from SA. At the time, it was his compassion for the gays that got the headlines: http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/pope-homosexuals-who-am-i-judge
Women in the church
"A church without women would be like the apostolic college without Mary. The Madonna is more important than the apostles, and the church herself is feminine, the spouse of Christ and a mother."
"The role of women doesn't end just with being a mother and with housework ... we don't yet have a truly deep theology of women in the church. We talk about whether they can do this or that, can they be altar boys, can they be lectors, about a woman as president of Caritas, but we don't have a deep theology of women in the church."
"On the ordination of women, the church has spoken and said no. John Paul II, in a definitive formulation, said that door is closed."
It will be decades, if not generations, for this all to play out. But in the here and now, we can certainly try each day to love each other and act with good will and compassion to each and every living creature we encounter.
Like St Francis!
Blessings of the Season and Happy New Year to the IM family.
Aurora
ps I am not the person to engage in a on-line 'war' over the Pope and/or the Church...too much history and am still trying to work it out for myself!
Very good summation, Aurora! Thanks!
DeleteIt's like trying to stop an ocean liner on a dime. Too much momentum, it's going to take a long time.
Delete"The role of women doesn't end just with being a mother and with housework"
Deleteoh for f's sake, pardon me while I barf
I left the Catholic church years ago and it has been wonderful for me. It made no sense. If I asked a question, I was told to take it on faith. They did not know the answer either, great leadership. That was before the pedophile scandals, (but not before the pedophile horrors). I am glad every day I left that mistake of a church.
ReplyDeleteI do not believe it was a PR stunt. A&E did not understand its constituency. They thought they were reasonable decent people and took the jerk off. Then the riffraff that watches the show started to complain and they had to put him back on. Go figure. I don't watch reality TV. It is too low class. I need to get something for my time if I am going to watch TV.
ReplyDeleteInsider analysis of the Pope's doin's:
ReplyDeletehttp://whispersintheloggia.blogspot.com/
The excommunication article doesn't contain all the relevant information. HuffPo covered the reason for excommunication more accurately and fully.
ReplyDelete"Reynolds had resigned as a priest from Western Port parish in 2011, at which time his priestly privileges were nullified, The Age reported last year.
His 32 years of official priesthood behind him, Reynolds began operating an informal church in Melbourne in 2012. Called the Inclusive Catholics, the organization accepts homosexuality and allows women to help lead services. "
He resigned from the priesthood, yet proceeded to perform its rituals, particularly communion services, without authorization. That's always been grounds for automatic excommunication and considered a mortal sin, regardless of an ex-priest's stance on gay rights.
I don't buy the argument that the Catholic Church changes very slowly because change takes a long time. Talk about a circular argument. The Catholic Church doesn't change for one simple reason: there is no pressure on it to change. Talk, talk, talk, yes; pressure, no. Anyone who truly wants to see change should stop attending church. Women should fail to attend mass and keep their children home with them. And if the women didn't show up, the men wouldn't either. If women could find the strength and courage to do that, change would happen in a hurry.
ReplyDeleteIf you think Francis isn't a breath of fresh air and change in an old, rigid structure, consider this:
ReplyDelete"Andrea Quintero, a homeless trans woman, was found beaten to death on July 29th alongside Rome's Termini station. Since then, her remains have been unclaimed by family members or friends, until Jesuit-run Centro Astalli stepped forward to organize a funeral with the assistance of civic officials and the Catholic charity organization Caritas, says the National Catholic Reporter.
Her funeral was held on Friday at Rome's Church of the Gesù, the mother church of the Jesuit order to which Pope Francis belongs. A Vatican spokesperson referred to it as "the church of Francis" in a tweet, which could also be read as the church of St. Francis, “in the sense that it’s a classic gesture of mercy for someone who lived and died at society’s margins," according to NCR.
Centro Astalli’s Jesuit director Fr. Giovanni La Manna said that the service was meant to remember Quintero's life, but also to send “a signal for the entire Roman community that’s distracted in the face so many people who face discrimination, and who live their difficulties to the indifference of our city," according to Raw Story."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/27/funeral-andrea-quintero_n_4509643.html