I was really only subjected to a limited amount of this as a kid, but my daughter was exposed to the whole enchilada.
Christian homeschool instruction, Bible camps, overnight church sleepovers for teens, trips to the water park, paintball games, you name it she has done it.
My second wife lived a life like that as a kid as well, and told me they were not even allowed to go to the movies, watch television, or listen to modern music. Of course none of that stopped her from becoming a teen mom.
My personal feeling is if your religion is so worthy of acceptance then people should be introduced to it after they are in their late teens or early twenties and have some maturity and frame of reference. If they can be convinced at that stage of their life, then the church really has something valuable to offer.
If not then it deserves to die out.
AKA, brainwashing!
ReplyDeleteSome of us are lucky to be intelligent enough to see through it and tell them to piss off! Of course, those of us who said that, did so silently so we didn't get the crap beat out of us. At least, until we were out on our own.
"Everything I learned about marketing came from the church..."
DeleteWow!
Really good vid. Lots peeps get PTSD watching these jesue vids b/c it IS brainwashing!
And its scary with someone like Palin doing xtian dog whistles and our fucking Congress also too!
Gawd has no place in gov or anywhere, except privately if you so choose. Yesterday RW outrage was POTUS didn't go to church on xmas day!!http://bit.ly/1fTZgTF Is there a law now? And apparently he is the ONLY POTUS who gets criticized for playing golf or having a vacay b/c he is black. Sick of the Shit!
If churches can’t brainwash the young, I’m pretty sure they would die out, or become mostly museums as they are in Europe. Are there any Shakers left? They had to be recruited, but I’m guessing it happened while they were young.
ReplyDeleteIt’ll be interesting to see how America trends, but I think most religions are in decline now. I could be wrong.
>>but I think most religions are in decline now. I could be wrong.
DeleteNope, you're not wrong, not at all:
Religion Among Americans Hits Low Point, As More People Say They Have No Religious Affiliation: Report
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/13/religion-america-decline-low-no-affiliation-report_n_2867626.html
Exactly. the RCC has been doing this for centuries. I'm an atheist who has been openly criticizing the church for years and done much to be excommunicated. Doesn't happen, because they wasn't numbers on the roles - since I was baptized...the same with RCC schools,which in Louisiana and Indiana,our tax dollars now subsidize.
DeleteI could spend hours explaining how Christianity originally was a secret society with baptism being the initiation into the cult. It wasn't until it became more wide spread, around the third century, that someone asked what happens to children who have not yet been initiated since the canon states that a person cannot enter heaven unless they accept Christ. Sooooo.....they invent a ritual whereby a child undergoes baptism, but the oath is taken by a pair of adults who vow to teach the child the tenants of the cult.That oath is 'confirmed' when the child reaches the age of reason. Which the Church felt was....age 7. You know, right around the time kids stop sticking crayons up their nose and are ready for the keys to the family car!
ReplyDeleteI am so grateful that I was not indoctrinated this way. Even though my family was Episcopalian, and we were exposed to religious ideas, we didn't have this rigid kind of dogma pushed on us at all. Yes, we went to church and celebrated Christian holidays, but it was more social and cultural, not at all biblical. And when we turned 16, we were given a choice to attend church, or not. And we all chose not.
ReplyDeleteAll of us are good and kind people, and none of us participate in a religious life. I don't give a lot of thought to any of it.
I don't not believe in God, and I don't believe in God, I just don't give it much thought. I resonate much more with being a child of the Universe. A being of Light and Love. A divine essence that is part of the ALL. This 'man in the sky' stuff never really stuck for me.
6:10, you were lucky.
DeleteI was raised episcopalian as well, but I had a distinct DISadvantage. My grandfather was an episcopal bishop which, naturally, meant the family was "devout". Apparently my father took things truly "to heart" and began to try to beat any doubts out of me - which, naturally, had the opposite affect!
And the real "forgiving" nature of christianity was brought home to me when the youngest daughter married an RCC - and CONVERTED! Now, THAT was a hot time in the ole town that night! Grandpappy and Pappy never spoke to her again.
The humor?My ole man had three marriages. The other sibs had at least two each. The baby sister had one. Lasted over fifty years until his death. They were the happiest couple I had ever met.
But they weren't devout, either.
" If they can be convinced at that stage of their life, then the church really has something valuable to offer."
ReplyDeleteAs a matter of fact: if you know damned well that you HAVE to indoctrinate your children in your faith or they'll renounce it, then you also know damned well that your faith is false.
Speaking of getting them while they are young, a video of the Duck Guy from 2009 I believe is all over the internet. Apparently, the Duck Guy advises men to marry "women" at the age of 15 or 16. If one waits until they are 20 years old, they are spoiled and will only pick your pocket.
ReplyDeleteNo one can make this stuff up.
"My personal feeling is if your religion is so worthy of acceptance then people should be introduced to it after they are in their late teens or early twenties and have some maturity and frame of reference."
ReplyDeleteOr if one's preferred way of life is total, therefore exposing one's children from day one, at least do as the Amish do and give them a few years where they have a choice about exposure to the rest of the world. Amish churches in most areas decline to allow very young persons to join the church, instead preferring a period of Rumspringa (translates to "running around", roughly) when the young person has a chance to get out and see what's in the rest of the world. At the completion of that period the church will contemplate an admission. Average age for that is about 20-22 in most communities. Interestingly, they have a retention rate well over 50% and up to 97% in one community near here.
I'll also note: media accounts and TV shows dealing with subject of Rumspringa can safely be discounted; I've never seen an accurate one yet.
For Amish women, though, it really isn't a true choice. They have an 8th grade education, most of their skills are in the child-rearing, primitive houskeeping realm and they have few if any marketable skills - so they go back to their families as a default. It's a little different for the males, as they usually have some basic carpentry skills.
DeleteBut how many 18-20 year-olds in modern society have marketable skills? Most high-school graduates aren't even prepared for colleges and many universities consider the first year of college almost like the fifth year of high school.
DeleteHmm, didn't stop me; I'm female. Didn't even slow me down. I went into the world at the same time as many non-Amish females in my community and I had far more skills for living than did they, having learned much about how to order a workday, taking responsibility for myself rather than being dependent, using resources/time/skills at hand to move forward...there were many areas where I had a jumpstart on the English kids. At the age the Amish kids usually leave they are eligible to finish high school without tuition if they want and often they do. In some ways it is easier for girls since they can easily get a room, board, and a stipend in trade for cleaning, child care, field work, etc to be done evenings/weekends and still be free for school in the daytime. Boys have a harder time with those kinds of arrangements; they don't want to be under somebody's thumb but to consider themselves to be "free"; they also often fail to understand the importance of school as it relates to future employment so less often finish school. My husband (Amish-reared and left) never did finish school and although he managed to make a living there were a lot of glitches that schooling would have prevented; many of the guys I know who left have had the same issues. It would be even harder in today's world.
DeleteThere were 1 female and 7 male children in my family. The 7 males were all Amish (2 dead now); I was the only one who left and didn't go back. I'm also the only one of my age-group to have stayed out. Most girls, if they return to the Amish, don't go back to their families, anyway; they'll go back to marry an Amish guy. I can only think of one who went back home and she went back to help take care of her ailing mother; I don't think she ever did join the church although she may have late in life.
The Amish rock is not the only one to hide under. Any of us can whine about our "poor starts" in life but also any of us, assuming the intellectual ability is present, can get our butts in gear and go, too. Works whether male or female.
But my original point was that a chance is "officially" encouraged to learn what the rest of the world is up to before persons are allowed to join the church.
I hadn't planned to learn anything today but I just did. Thanks for sharing, Sarah.
DeletePoll: Republican Belief In Evolution Has Plummeted In Recent Years
ReplyDeletehttp://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/poll-republican-belief-evolution
They really ARE getting more ignorant!
I have a friend whose mother went over to the born-again dark side when he was young (his parents got divorced). My friend went to Christian private schools and lots of church, etc. While his mother and brother are still very much on the god squad, my friend resisted the brain washing and is now an atheist. Then again, he is extremely smart and has a strong independent streak.
ReplyDeleteI'm the son of a divorced Catholic woman, and maybe you know something of how those were treated in the 1960s. It seemed to foster a perceivable skepticism in my mother that carried over to me, and did so at a young age. I'm very grateful for that. There was a mostly unspoken understanding that the bond of trust between parent and child superseded the alleged infallibility of nuns and priests.
ReplyDeleteThough most were intimidating, I don't remember being traumatized by any clergy figure. And though money had something to do with the decision, I remained grateful to be pulled out of Catholic schooling after 6th grade before my healthy sexual awakening could be damaged.
It IS brainwashing and one of the worst forms of child abuse. When I left the church, a dear friend (From another parish) wanted me to be "godmother" to her son. She begged me to lie on the application, because she wanted me to stand for her child and I told her I wouldn't lie, not because I didn't want the honor, but because there's nothing wrong with the truth.
ReplyDeleteThe priest called us in to the rectory, and said the only way I could stand as godmother, was if I was a practicing Catholic. He was so gung ho, he had papers ready for me to take "Catechism lessons". Then he asked me what religion I belong to and I simply said "None". He looked at me like I had an ear growing on my forehead, or horns. I asked him, with all due respect to his religion, would the parents of any child want an amoral liar or axemurderer to stand for their child?
He stammered, then explained it to me like I was a third grader. "It's not a matter of morality, it's a matter of believing in something better than yourself - you're missing out on God's awesome love"
I told him he wasn't answering my question and making something extremely simple more complex than it has to be. "Would anyone in their right mind want an immoral liar or axemurderer to stand for their child, yes or no?" Here's where I wanted to burst out laughing.
"Yes, if the immoral liar or axemurderer confess their sin, return to the Church and ask God's forgiveness"
There's nothing more freeing than coming out. I was embarrassed for my friend, but it didn't change our relationship nor my love for her kid except for making it stronger.
Fair enough - provided you progtard ass hats reciprocate.
ReplyDeleteHow about you shove your homosexuals, your global warming, your feminism and the rest of your enchilada? For every single mother the Christians produce, liberal morons produce ten.