Tuesday, December 17, 2013

Two education researchers find that when it comes to providing quality education, public schools still do it best.

Courtesy of the Boston Globe:

Like many in their field, Christopher and Sarah Lubienski, education professors at the University of Illinois, had long taken it as a given that private schools generally outperform public schools. Why would parents shell out thousands of dollars a year in tuition if they weren’t getting more for their money? Moreover, studies in the 1980s and ’90s had apparently settled the matter, showing that private schools produced higher test scores even when accounting for the demographic differences between public and private. 

But more recently, when she was working on a study of math instruction, Sarah Lubienski came across a result she didn’t expect. When she divided the schools she was looking at into public and private categories and controlled for demographics, the schools stacked up quite differently. Public schools seemed to be producing better test scores than private. They were also doing better than charter schools. 

“That,” says her husband and colleague Christopher Lubienski, “is when we started investigating this more intensively.” 

They decided to take a new, in-depth look at nationwide standardized test data. Using results from the math portion of the National Assessment of Educational Progress, or NAEP, the Lubienskis compared scores from more than 13,000 public, private and charter schools. The private schools did have higher raw scores. But once they controlled for factors like family income, race, and location, they found that public schools were overall getting better results from their students. 

The Lubienskis locate the reason in a surprising place: private-school autonomy. School reform advocates have long argued that more autonomy would allow public schools to innovate, and that letting families choose where to send their kids would force schools to improve their game. But the Lubienskis argue that independence and competition may actually be holding back achievement at private and charter schools. In a new book, “The Public School Advantage: Why Public Schools Outperform Private Schools,” they outline their findings and walk through the implications. The result may lead education reform advocates to rethink their policies—and parents to question one of their most important decisions.

I don't think it is any secret that I am a huge fan of public schools and have very little confidence in charter, private, or home schooling.

Part of that is because I am somebody who has great confidence in the fact that the public school system has the ability to offer a quality education for EVERYBODY, despite their ethnicity, their financial means, or their geographic location.

I realize of course that education can be impeded by a lack of funds in certain school districts, and that states run by Republicans especially can find their budgets stripped to the bone. But that is a failing not of the system, but of the local political climate.

The public school framework can be highly successful, and with more resources it can easily compete against the alternative schools that have the option of kicking out special needs students, rejecting poorer students, and recruiting the best and brightest in the areas that they serve.

Despite this they really do not do any better, and in fact, according to this study, often much worse.

I think the reason for this competitive edge was best explained by one of the researchers:

A lot of public schools have embraced more state-of-the art approaches that have been really influenced and shaped by experts in the field; for example, the National Council of Teachers of Mathematics has recommended certain curricular approaches that reflect what we know about how students learn. It’s really apparent when you look at the teaching and the curriculum in the different types of classrooms. The other thing is that public schools have to work under some [legal] requirements, and one of those is they have to hire certified teachers. Teacher certification does make a difference. It’s a good predictor of student achievement.

I do not think there are too many things that piss me off as much as hearing people rag on public school teachers, and that was the case even BEFORE I went to work for the district.

These are people who are dedicated to educating children. Period!

They did not get into the field to get rich, or to use as a springboard to a more lucrative position. They went into the field to make a difference, and the ONLY thing holding them back is the lack of support coming from their communities, the lack of funds, and the political attacks that come their way on an almost consistent basis these days.

These are people to be celebrated, to be supported, to be admired.

They shape our children's future, our country's progress, and our standing in the world.

Don't ever forget that.

48 comments:

  1. Anonymous6:21 AM

    Yes, if people went into teaching to get rich, they'd soon leave the profession and run for office. How many educators are in Congress?

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  2. Anonymous6:41 AM

    The problem with this kind of statistic is that the designation "private schools" includes all those crazy right-wing evangelical schools, which warps their findings. I went to a great public school in a small college town, but I scraped to send my daughter to private school in New Orleans where public schools are a dangerous nightmare. She received a great education from fantastic, dedicated teachers at a private school that took in many "troubled" kids kicked out of New Orleans's strict Catholic school system, saved their lives, and turned them around. (They also, ironically, had routinely higher test scores than the most elite and prestigious of those Catholic schools.) So I see both sides of this debate.

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  3. Anonymous6:48 AM

    How many Home-Schooled Students are in Congress? How many Wasilla High School Dropouts are in Congress? How many Palin Babies go to School? How many 2 parent Families do the Palin offspring constitute? How many 'qualified' Heaths/Palins are Teachers?

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    1. Anonymous10:26 AM

      Your first question is a stupid one. Homeschooling wasn't really an option until @ 20 years ago. However, if you travel back to early years of the country, the answer would be "most."

      Delete
  4. Anna Quindlen said it beautifully when she was doing her weekly column for Newsweek.
    http://www.nea.org/home/12344.htm

    "I handled three classes, and by the time I staggered out the door, I wanted to lie down for the rest of the day. Teaching’s the toughest job there is.... I can stare off into the middle distance with my chin in my hand any time. But you go mentally south for five minutes in front of a class of fifth-graders, and you are sunk."

    Damn I miss her. Where the hell is her successor?

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    1. Anita Winecooler6:20 PM

      She's one of a kind. I'd like to think that there's some young lady somewhere who has the same intelligence and knack for communicating the complexities of life in simple terms.

      This is my favorite interview with her. (It's a bit long, but worth bookmarking and watching)

      Delete
  5. Anonymous7:04 AM

    Secular homeschooler here. I've always supported public education and reject the rigidity that you can wholesale dismiss any form of education over another, whether it's public, private or homeschooling.

    I'm not a fan of bad schooling, whether it's religious homeschoolers like some you've highlighted lately, or school districts that make the news because their kids are so low-performing.

    I am in favor of options for parents. Educational standards should be the same for homeschooling, private schooling and public schooling. If students from any don't meet certain milestones - while making allowances for learning disabilities - then the educators, regardless of setting, should be made accountable.

    Your generalizations about homeschooling would hold water if there weren't homeschoolers doing well in traditional colleges. My own daughter, who was homeschooled, is now a teacher in the public school system. She is one of those good teachers you describe, but she also supports homeschooling, based on her own experience.

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    1. Leland8:16 AM

      "If students from any don't meet certain milestones - while making allowances for learning disabilities - then the educators, regardless of setting, should be made accountable."

      You are not including enough exceptions in your statement. I ask you: How can a teacher do the job they are asked to do if they are saddled with forty or fifty students or can't get the support he/she needs in the class room? Or has to fight with a parent because their child is badly misbehaving and he/she tries to correct that foul mannered child? And then doesn't have the backing of the local school system when needed and earned?

      Way too many things that make the job of teaching really difficult. Not just learning disabilities!

      Delete
    2. Anonymous8:43 AM

      This is true. There are a lot of factors. I know because my daughter is a teacher. She was also homeschooled.

      Public educators work hard, but public education varies - just like other forms of education - due to a lot of factors. Funding, class size - even administration - can make a difference between a good public school district and a poor one. Bad school districts often motivate secular homeschoolers to pull out and teach at home, and as a successful homeschooler whose kids have gone on to get an education and - in the case of one - to become a teacher, I can say with certainty that it can be done and done well.

      I'm not criticizing Gryphen's being a fan of education. I am questioning his tendency to wear blinders and assume that in some really bad districts, the kids are no better off academically than they are in a poor home school setting.

      Again, I like the idea of educational options for parents, but there has to be standards for ALL of them. You can't praise public school teachers as the best and then argue that they should be exempt from the standards. If they don't meet them, you don't punish the educators, you look at the administration.

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    3. Anonymous10:29 AM

      @8:43 Like. Except teh shoudl be options fro all parents - you do NOT get to take my tax dollars (see Indiana, Louisiana, and NC) and use them to send kids to religious private schools.

      Delete
    4. Anonymous2:01 PM

      "...even administration"?

      I would say that administration makes more difference than you think, and there are an awful lot of really bad administrators out there in public schools.

      Delete
    5. Anonymous6:28 AM

      When I said "even administration," I wasn't discounting it. A lot of factors play into why some school systems are terrible. Bad administration is - as you point out - one of the top reasons.
      My daughter teaches, and the school board swapped curriculum last year from a good one to a terribly substandard one. She and her colleagues objected, but were powerless. It's frustrating for them. Teachers get a bad rap for things that aren't even their fault.

      Delete
  6. Three public school kids here: one a college graduate with a good job; one a sophomore during her first year of college, based on college credit she earned through high school courses; one college-bound with an astronomical ACT score. But I agree that there are good public schools and bad public schools, good private schools and bad public schools, good homeschoolers and bad homeschoolers. Whatever the option, parents need to be choosy and stay involved.

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    1. Anonymous2:02 PM

      Parents need to be involved more than they need to be choosy. A good parent can overcome a lot of bad schooling, but a school cannot overcome a bad apathetic parent.

      Delete
    2. Anita Winecooler6:22 PM

      So very true!

      Delete
  7. Public schools are scrutinized by everyone and private schools less so. There are educational standards that have to be met by public schools that private schools and home schooled children are not required to meet. I believe in options for parents and children in schooling but not in relaxing our educational standards to give it to them.

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    1. Anonymous8:15 AM

      Um, seriously? You know nothing about private schools in general. This is why generalizations are the epitome of evil.

      Delete
    2. I know a lot about private schools. My brother teaches in one and my daughter-in-law home schools. Don't assume. There are private schools that do a good job but regulation is lax at best. Home schooling has practically no regulation.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous10:30 AM

      And paranoid fundernutters/anarchist libertarians fight to keep it that way. Some don't even want to register THAT they are homeschooling.

      Delete
    4. Anonymous8:33 PM

      "Generalizations are the epitome of evil"

      Did you really write that? Sheesh!

      Delete
  8. Anonymous7:44 AM

    GOP Rep: Republicans 'Come Across As Knuckle-Dragging Neanderthals On Occasion' (VIDEO)

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/gop-rep-republicans-come-across-as-knuckle-dragging-neanderthals-on-occasion-video

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    1. Anonymous2:03 PM

      Only on occasion? More like always.

      Delete
  9. Anonymous8:14 AM

    wow thats pure bunk. Im sure there are many quality public schools. But there are SOOOO many incredibly poor ones at every level of secondary education and elem school. So many kids aren't conditioned to think about college naturally, nor ar they helped by their school officials. Sure, parents should encourage this, but schools should develop at least a basic program of applying for college. That is RARE in the grand scheme of things.

    And private schools are often better because kids stay in one place for years and the basics are drilled into their heads on repeat.

    I HATE articles like the one above. Id NEVER choose public school if I could afford the alternative. My kids are in private elem.

    But props to all the public school teachers who don't check out at 3pm, who actually care. And to the administrators that lead well. Like I said, those do exist. It's just rare.Personally, my kids will do the arts and sciences curriculum until high school, then attend a nice private school in a normal fashion.

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    1. Anonymous10:32 AM

      If you think Drill and kill (any enthusiasm for learning) is a way to educate - I just fervently hope you are NOT a teacher.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous10:33 AM

      "Do the arts and sciences curriculum" - WTF is that? You are publishing your ignorance.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous2:06 PM

      I have never met a public school teacher that "checks out at 3pm". Only truly ignorant people perpetuate that myth.

      Delete
  10. Anonymous8:34 AM

    Good test scores mean a child is good at TAKING tests.

    There is no test score for the most vital education goal which is producing an engaged, questioning, life-long learner.

    It's odd that no "educator" is studying the detrimental effect of producing good test takers. For example, how about studying how much and what level of non-school reading is happening. Or how good a student is at designing a scientific test. Is there a positive or negative correlation with good test scores?

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    1. Anonymous10:35 AM

      You don't know much about educational methods, do you? having a written component - as in essays- does just what you are asking. Beware the larger and larger classroom, where teachers can't grade essays because of time constraints - and this is at every level - 60 in a college class? Take only if you want to put a checkmark on a requirement, not if you want to actually learn something. Unfortunately, this is where higher ed is heading.

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    2. Anonymous11:48 AM

      I am 10:35AM. I am the product of a test system in a parochial elementary school (Dioscisan exams) and NYS Regents in public high school. The educational methods haven't changed much because the testing system controls the curriculum. All the students and all the teachers know that the required material is in the textbooks. My "teachers" were there to keep students from damaging the school building and each other. And that is still the case.

      School is basically jail with furloughs. If a student acts up, they are forced to stay in the school longer. That's to teach you that school is a place where it is a punishment to be there.

      Sure, a couple of essay questions on a couple of tests could make some lazy thinkers say the curriculum isn't just a distillation of a series of idiot test questions.

      As an example of what's wrong with a test driven curriculum consider how much education you could do without it. Samples for fifth-graders.

      Using a fixed amount of money, plan a week's menus meeting the nutritional needs for a family of four.

      Conduct a TWO year study of the ecosystem in a natural area near your school.

      Plan and hold a juried art show.

      Debate an issue and evaluate other students written opinions on which arguments were most effective.

      Propose new legislation (or removal of old legislation) to some level of government.

      OR... turn off your brain and fill in the next test-prep worksheet.

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  11. "But props to all the public school teachers who don't check out at 3pm, who actually care." Okay, well since that is virtually ALL of them I am sure they appreciate your support.

    Only an imbecile thinks that teachers only a work a nine to three job, they work many more hours than that. Often including the summers.

    And when they are not working they are attending continuing ed classes, or attending seminars, in order to learn better teaching techniques or how to utilize new curriculum.

    Your ignorance leads me to believe you were probably educated in a private or charter school. But thanks for playing.

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    1. Anonymous9:17 AM

      That quite a generous broad brush stroke in praise of public school teachers Gryph.

      "And when they are not working they are attending continuing ed classes, or attending seminars, in order to learn better teaching techniques or how to utilize new curriculum."

      hahahaha....

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    2. Anonymous2:08 PM

      what, 9:17am - you don' think that teachers work hard to stay current in their profession? It's obvious you don't actually know any teachers. Otherwise you wouldn't spew ignorance about them.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous3:00 PM

      2:08- Nice try- I know a lot of teachers. Some work harder than others, most of them like teaching to an extent. They all very very very much like their summers and school holidays. Teachers serve a purpose and there is always a gem here and there.... but Gryphen has gone more than overboard with his praise, and you assume incorrectly about what you know.

      You also do remember the old phrase about teachers yes? Those who can't do, teach. The best teachers in life are not in a classroom.

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    4. Anonymous3:18 PM

      @3:00 PM - I was a teacher. I'm married to one. I have met hundreds over my lifetime. I DO know that I have found maybe one or two who do not belong in the profession. Sure, teachers like the time they get off, but they work hard for it.

      And as for your bringing up the old phrase - it simply underscores my point that you are indeed ignorant of the teaching profession. They work hard, they more than earn their keep, and they are way more important to our society than you are.

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    5. Anonymous3:53 PM

      3:18 That old phrase is there for a reason, all old phrases are.

      Everyone serves a purpose in this society, including teachers, but don't get too big a head about it. You wouldnt have a building to teach in, or a car to get to work, or paper to write on, or computers to utilize, if it weren't for real world people that do make everything happen... so that you can teach.

      Delete
    6. Anonymous4:26 PM

      And that a teacher that you are able to read my posts. Unless your mom is reading to you.

      Not everyone serves a purpose in our society. Some folks (like those who aren't willing to accept the fact that teachers ARE important) are just slugs that serve no purpose whatsoever. I can smell your resentment of teachers from here. You must have had a bad time in school. Don't blame teachers for your bad choices.

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    7. Anonymous4:30 PM

      I mean "and THANK a teacher..."

      Delete
    8. Anonymous5:27 PM

      Wow you really jump to conclusions. You have wonderful people skills, is this how you talked to your students? I admit it does feel kind of good to get under the skin of your over inflated teacher ego, as those are the only kinds of teachers I never really respected, but I don't think I 'resented' any of them that I can remember.

      I already predicted that you would spin it around to 'you couldn't even read without being taught by a teacher'. But like most people, my mom and dad did teach me to read. Elementary school reinforced that of course, but good books are really what expands the mind, vocabulary, and comprehension.

      Through all your teaching you must have learned that most innovators, inventors, and industrialists that have created the modern world we live in often had meager formal educations if any at all. Those that had some education were usually bored with school and dropped out. So you can suck it on your weak sauce arguments. Not everyone needs formal schooling and teachers to learn and educate themselves. Those with curious minds keep learning their entire lives. And by the way, I practice in a field that requires professional license, which can’t be obtained without a BS degree from an accredited college in that field (that wasn’t easy to obtain for a daydreamer like me who, you’re right, do not like school). Not one of the PhD teachers I ever had could do what I do, they wouldn’t last a week. Because they can’t do, they teach. And that is fine. Everyone has a purpose, don’t get your panties in a wad teach.

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    9. Anita Winecooler6:43 PM

      Yeah, it's a cushy job, nine to three, summers off, I'm surprised there aren't MORE teachers (SNARK). I worked alongside my kid's public school teachers, my sister's a teacher in public schools. They have a lot on their plates, and sacrifice from their own pay to buy basic necessities that are "slashed" for "budgeting reasons". My sister takes her work home with her, grading papers, doing lesson plans, finding which approach is best for which child's learning style, keeping her credentials current and dealing with the fallout from parents who refuse to get involved and want her job because their genius may not make it to the next grade.
      It takes a village, and these teachers don't deserve the lack of respect, long hours and the salaries they earn.
      We demand quality but aren't willing to pay for it.

      Delete
  12. Charter schools and homeschooling have been used in a coordinated effort to undermine the public school system. That is why I have so little patience with them.

    Of course I realize that there are children who have benefited greatly from a charter school, private school, or homeschool education. And some of them may have been lost in public school.

    However when resources are stripped from public schools, when their teachers are the victims of smear campaigns, and when parents drop the parenting ball and then demand that teachers take up the slack, I simply find that it is unfair to criticize teachers for the poor scores racked up by their pupils.

    Remember that often parents who are invested enough in their children;s education to move them to a private school or charter school, are also invested enough to work with them on their homework at home and to make sure they are well fed and supported at home.

    That is not always the case in public school, where ALL children have the right to an education. That means that special needs kids require IEP's and teams to help them learn at their pace, hungry kids need to be fed, emotionally fragile children need to be comforted, tired children need to be engaged, and disruptive children need to have their behaviors addressed.

    Many of those challenges simply do not occur in the charter or private school environment, and when they do those children can be removed.

    If you can afford private school for your child, good for you. But our public schools do a very good job with much less, and they could do wonders with much more.

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    1. Anonymous10:37 AM

      Have you looked at the collective Impact STRIVE! program in Cincinnati, Gryphen?

      Delete
  13. Anonymous10:24 AM

    "I don't think it is any secret that I am a huge fan of public schools and have very little confidence in charter, private, or home schooling.

    Part of that is because I am somebody who has great confidence in the fact that the public school system has the ability to offer a quality education for EVERYBODY, despite their ethnicity, their financial means, or their geographic location."

    However, you don't take into account their IQ, and this is a problem, especially when that IQ is one -two standard deviations above the norm. because of the age cohort lockstep that almost all schools (public or private) are in, homeschooling or very small private schools may be the best option for GT kids.

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  14. Thanks to NCLB, most teachers have to have a Master's Degree. Just think, starting out with a Master's on a $25,000 salary. Your school loans could be a lot more than your salary! There is a reason most teachers work other jobs in the summer and after school. I know my sister sure did!

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    1. Anita Winecooler6:47 PM

      Exactly, and they pay out of pocket for supplies that get slashed because Administration guarantees their own high salaries. Those are OUR kids when line items get slashed.

      Delete
  15. There have always been exceptions and outliers: Private and public schools that excel and private and public schools that are awful.

    The problem is that people prefer anecdotal information to any sort of formal documented study. They believe what they want to believe. They still believe Reagan's A Nation at Risk propaganda which was totally bogus.

    This study will do nothing to change any minds. It will be dismissed as researchers in the pockets of teacher's unions.

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  16. Anonymous2:57 PM

    After 22 years, my wife will be retiring from teaching this Friday. Obviously I am biased, but she is a truly gifted teacher. But here in Michigan, it doesn't matter. Here, teachers are graded on how their kids do on standardized test scores, not how good a teacher they are. The grades teachers get are: highly effective, effective and ineffective.

    She barely made "effective" last year by the skin of her teeth. Her kid's test scores were low, but she made up for it with other scoring metrics (participation in committees, PTA, abuse of sick days, etc.). She wanted to teach a few more years or at least finish this year. But when she realized that the school district would most likely deem her inadequate after working harder than she ever has in her life only because this year she has a nightmare of a class, she decided to leave mid-year rather than be labeled a failure.

    It's insane that her career is basically torpedoed by kids and parents who don't give a rat's ass about school. Her conference participation was regularly 50% or less. When does she get to score the parents as ineffective?

    Her 30 4th grade students come from impoverished families who’s "parents" are merely the adults that happen to live in the same house the kids or maybe no house at all; kids half of whom 20 years ago would have been in self-contained rooms because of their behavior. Now they are in regular ed rooms (got to include 'em all, don't you know!) and she says all she does all day long is just babysit. It's a rare day any more that she actually gets to teach.

    When she resigned, she gave the district 7 weeks notice but as of today (3 days away) they can't find anybody who even wants the job. By the end of the year, the turnover at her school might reach 25% because the teachers there just can't take it any more. And this isn't Detroit or Grand Rapids we're talking about. We're about 2 hours West in a town that you would think would be doing better by their kids. Pretty much any urban school you go in Michigan is the same story these days. Our state used to have very good public schools. I received an excellent education from one. It's only since republicans decided that school unions need to go that public school teachers are all of a sudden “infective”.

    All of the above is due to the war on public education. One that is going very well for the conservatives in this state. Not so well for the kids who go to neighborhood schools that are being decimated by school of choice and and other anti-public school initiatives. I can only surmise that republican politicians here do not want to reform public education; they want to destroy it completely.

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    1. I'm a teacher and understand with everything you said.

      This is my 35th year. I'll be retiring after next year.

      I expect my principal to give me an ineffective. Not because I am not an effective teacher and my state does not tie test scores to teacher evaluations. No, it will be in retaliation for filing a grievance for violating the contract. He's requiring me to provide release time every single day for teachers to attend meetings which is outside my job description. Luckily the union will be representing me at the grievance and will make sure there will be no retaliation. But I'll be retiring after next year anyway. June 2015. I'll be sixty and a half and will more than qualify for my pension.

      I'm glad to leave. I'm tired of seeing mile wide inch deep teaching to the test. I'm tired of the short sighted view instead of the long term. I teach these students skills they'll need in middle and high school to write the research papers that will get them good grades. Everyone else is just trying to get a good score on the May standardized tests. Not on the test? Not important.

      So I've had enough. I'll retire. I will not substitute or consult. I will not hesitate to state "told you so" at every opportunity.

      I've watched a once top of the nation school system deteriorate due to budget cuts and policies and interference from amateurs in positions of power.

      I just can't fight any more. I've fought for the best for the students for 35 years and nothing I have done has made any difference. Schools are worse now than ever.

      I guess I should have gone into politics. But if I had, I wouldn't *know* what I know. I'm an expert in my field with absolutely no authority or power to effect the changes that have to be made.

      So in a little over one year I will be retiring.

      Maybe I'll write letters to the editor that will never be published in our local right wing rags.

      Delete
  17. Anita Winecooler6:58 PM

    I'm with you, Gryphen. I've always been for quality public schools and I don't mind the choices other people make as long as it doesn't effect the public school system. I've worked with teachers for years when my kids were in school, and have a sister whose a High School Teacher in Public Schools.
    I'm thrilled with the quality of education my kids got and are still getting in the Public School System. The teachers are the most dedicated, hard working people I've met. Their students are "Their kids", and they have a vested interest in finding the best approach for each learning style the kids present with. The kids do best when the parents get involved and stay involved in their education.
    Teachers deserve a lot more respect and compensation for their profession.

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