Wednesday, January 01, 2014

Hell yeah we have morals. And they're good ones too!

You know I actually don't think that Atheists are necessarily more moral than religious people.

I just hate it when somebody makes the assumption that without religion we are without a sense of morality or empathy. Nothing could be further from the truth.

And I have known many truly wonderful Christians, Buddhists, Jewish people, etc. in my life.

However I have to admit that when I hear somebody describe themselves as a "Good Christian" that always raises red flags with me, because it seems to so often be followed by the statement, "I had no idea such a good Christian would do something so horrible to the Robertson's dog."

It seems that people use Christian camouflage to cover a devious nature so often that it immediately makes me suspicious. That's undoubtedly unfair, but there you have it.


  1. People DO use Christian camouflage to cover a devious nature. If fact, I think people who aren’t naturally devious get tempted to cut corners and cheat since they have so much goodwill shielding them. How many church bookkeepers have stolen from the church? It happens all the time. I had a cousin go to jail for that very thing. She was slightly devious, however; kind of hard to say which came first.

    1. After the clergy child rape/sodomy/molestation scandal, second place goes to all the embezzlement by clergy and employees. Both can be fully experienced at (Have barf bag at ready!)

  2. Anonymous4:59 AM

    Bill Maher, years ago, had something to say about those people who start every sentence with, "Well, I'm a CHRISTIAN..." I've noticed in my own life that whenever people self-identify obsessively as Christians, they're likely trying to scam something from you.

  3. Leland5:18 AM

    When I was working in my home two, the company for which I was working was bought out by a man describing himself as a "born again christian". He tried to screw us at every turn and I finally gave up and quit to start my own business. (I work in the security/fire systems industry.)

    He tried to keep a $4000 commission from me saying since I quit I didn't deserve it.

    It shocked him when - for once - the SC commission responsible for things like that was actually on MY side.

    t was that man who taught me that ANY time I hear someone brag about being a good christian or a born again christian my hackles instantly go up.


    But I do give them an opportunity to prove what they really are.

    1. Leland5:40 AM

      Sorry. Line one should read "home TOWN"!

  4. Sally in MI5:25 AM

    Well, if we weren't convinced Christianity was used as a cover by devious people, Sarah has made it quire onvious, hasn;t she? And her sometime buddy Graham, the Robertsons (Phil and Pat,) the Perrys, Cruz', Santorums, and on and on. No morals, no regrets. The polar opposites of the man they get in a tizzy about following.

    1. (Insert Ghandi quote.)

  5. Randall6:00 AM

    Looking back on my life from the vantage point of my current old-age, I see that the people who have screwed me over the worst in my life were all "good Christians."

    1. Leland7:13 AM

      MAN! Do I know THAT feeling!

  6. Anonymous6:58 AM

    While I know many good honest religious people, I have noticed the more someone SAYS they are Christian the tighter you better hold on to your wallet or purse around them.

    As Leland stated above , the one thing I learned when moving south was to avoid businesses that advertised themselves as "Christian businesses"

    Happy New Years Gryphen and all IMers

  7. Anonymous7:35 AM

    I consider myself a Christian and I totally agree with you, Gryphen. There is a helluva lot of ugly in organized religion of any kind.

  8. An European Viewpoint9:46 AM

    Finally, a perfectly understandable reason to the glaring differences between most European societies and the American society : the level of religiosity !

    We're all the same humans underneath, so why so much violence in your society, why so many crimes, why so much intolerance, why so little education, why so much contempt of the poors ?

    In my country most of us are quietly atheists, and religion talk is limited to the very personal or familial sphere.

    Someone volunteering what his/her religion is, in a work or public environment, will be considered either as a prozelyting bore (we avoid them like the plage) or as a totally unhinged weirdo. Highly religious people are not seen as having higher morals, but as people who try to limit other's freedoms, and the more they mention their religion, the more they're suspected of being hypocrits.

    Thanks Gryphen for this illuminating post !

    1. Anonymous11:45 AM

      Religiosity is in no way the only reason for the disparate rates of violence between the US and other countries. It's not even the most important one. In fact, it's relationship is much more spurious than causal.

      I say this as a completely areligious person who is sick and tired of religion in general.

    2. Leland11:51 AM

      I have an email friend in Sweden and she says basically the same thing.

      Unfortunately for US, we have no way of convincing these idiots of that fact. They wouldn't listen. And if they did, it might just push them to try it on you guys!

      That is one export I would rather sink in the harbor!

  9. Nan H (formerly Nan C)10:37 AM

    I learned a long time ago the truth in the saying about "heaven protect me from the (self-)righteous!"

    I've always felt that if you have to announce it to people that you're a Christian, you must not be doin' it right, or it would be self-evident. Or something like that.

  10. Anita Winecooler6:21 PM

    It's what people do when no one is watching or would know that are truly "moral". Most "christians" I've encountered have to tic off a litany of good deeds they've done to let you know how "good" and "moral" their lives are. What I quickly learned when I left the church, was how truly fulfilling altruism can be. Being good for goodness sake is much better than being good to show off or because of some reward in another life.

  11. Atheists are some of the most RELIGIOUS people in the world. And of course they can act morally. This is one huge strawman argument. But here's the rub...on what do atheists base their morality? Naturalistic morality is founded firmly in mid-air! It has no objective basis other than what it borrows from some objectively metaphysical basis that naturalism must refute! It's yet another self-defeating aspect of naturalism. If you accept naturalism, you can never know it to be true.

  12. It's a BS move when Theists try to put unbelievers on the defensive about our ethics. The question is never really whether or not we have ethics; it's whether our ethics are good enough for them. Increasingly, I am inclined to say "I don't care' in response to this bit of conversational blackmail.


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