In it they made the following observation:Almost a tenth of babies and toddlers in England and Wales are Muslim, a breakdown of census figures shows.
The percentage of Muslims among the under-fives is almost twice as high as in the general population. In an indication of the extent to which birthrate is changing the UK’s religious demographic, fewer than one in 200 people over 85 is Muslim.
This resulted in the following Letter to the Editor from Dawkins.
Personally I hope to live long enough to see the day when it is illegal to indoctrinate children into any religious belief until they are at least in their teens and they have developed the critical thinking skills to evaluate what they are being told is the "truth" behind whichever religion is making its sale pitch.
How long do you think I need to live to see that? Twenty years? Fifty years? Yeah, probably a lot longer than that.
Oh well, one can dream can't they?
(H/T to The Friendly Atheist.)
"They have to be carefully taught." Aren't Christians already outnumbered across the globe?
ReplyDeleteExcellent article with more detail on religious programming:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.salon.com/2014/01/04/this_is_your_brain_on_religion_uncovering_the_science_of_belief/
"Personally I hope to live long enough to see the day when it is illegal to indoctrinate children into any religious belief...."
ReplyDeleteI personally, look forward to the day there ARE no religions of any significance to indoctrinate children into!
If we were to be as "successful" about indoctrinating children into education and learning as we are at brainwashing them into their religious beliefs, we might actually accomplish a tremendous amount - like figuring out how to live with each other! And cooperating with each other. And supporting each other in Man's expansion into space and things like that. Or even better, NOT blowing ourselves up!
Now THAT is a goal I can get behind!
That is awesome! Thanks for posting!
ReplyDeleteThe same idiots who think that babies are "born Muslim" will insist that being gay is a choice.
ReplyDeleteO/T but, in today's INSANITY from the ultra right white male Texas bigots, we have a Ted Cruz rally full of folks laughing at jokes about shooting people from California
ReplyDeleteQuote:
"Californians are trying desperately to move to Texas to enjoy its “awesome job opportunities, the incredible economy and the conservative government.”
“They will change it and mess it up,” Whittle said. “Don’t let that happen. Just start shooting.”
He suggested that no judge would convict them of opening fire on California residents.
“What’s the worst that could happen to you?” Whittle said. “I mean, honestly, this is Texas, right?
You’ll stand in front of a Texas judge, (and) he’ll say, ‘Did you shoot up that car full of Californians?’ You’ll say yes, he’ll say why. You’ll say, ‘Well, your honor, they needed killing.’ And he’ll say, ‘We’ll strike a medal in your honor,’ and off you go.”
"I’ll be 500 yards off to the side with a long-handled spade and my AR 15, and I’m going to say, ‘Texans, I can shoot and I can shovel, please let me in,’” Whittle said to more applause and laughter. “’I promise I’ll do more good than harm."
end quote:
TED CRUZ was in this audience near the front row. He and his fellow Christians thought this was all very funny.
I think someone on national TV should ask Ted if he thinks its funny to joke about killing California women and children.
I think this is serious ammunition against Ted to use at a debate,
to force him out in public and to get an apology for laughing at this travesty
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/01/13/ted-cruz-crowd-loves-bloggers-jokes-about-opening-fire-on-cars-with-california-plates/
i am speechless.
DeleteNever fails to piss me off, I tell someone I was raised in a Mormon household and they invariably say, "OMG you're Mormon!?". No, and f**k no. Thank you very much.
ReplyDeleteThe whole basis of religion is indoctrinating children, and even then it only works a fraction of the time.
Of course cooler heads should prevail..........not in my lifetime...there will be regime change in Great Britain that will make Hitler look tame.
ReplyDeleteA parent who believes their religion is true sees teaching that religion to their child as a matter of life and death. To them, it's part of loving and protecting their child. It's as critically important as providing food and shelter and teaching their child not to run out into the street in front of a moving car and not to touch hot burners on a stove. The same concept underlies the saying 'love the sinner, hate the sin.'
ReplyDeleteI understand this is difficult for non-believers to grasp but it's worthwhile to try as the argument for reason over faith has more power when it comes from a place of understanding, respect, and love.
No it's not difficult to understand. The difficult part is understanding why someone thinks their religion is true and thinks infecting a child with their tiny world view is a matter of life and death. Don't become a parent. Go to a seminary.
Delete@7:35
DeleteOh please.
The obvious argument in favor of religion and brainwashing your children is that! And has been for millennia. In fact, probably since religion was first created by Man. Life and death? Uh huh. They may actually believe that, but that only emphasizes why a huge number of atheists feel religion is wrong.
Religion still is sick and causes more damned death and hatred and destruction than almost any other source.
Brainwashing anyone is sick. And your stance makes it sound as though you have apparently suffered the same indoctrination. Teaching religion - ANY religion - to one's child is NOT life critical! You (or they) may actually believe it is, but I wonder if it's your (or their) honest belief or the brainwashing speaking.
Keeping religion from a child will not mean he/she will starve to death. It does not mean he/she will die from weather exposure. It will not keep them from getting hit by a car if they run out in the street. And it will most definitely NOT keep their flesh from burning if they touch something hot!
The very idea of something being so critical for survival is ridiculous - unless it actually IS something like food or shelter!
Essentially, what I am saying is that the very idea that parents believe that is a major problem and contributes to the continued tremendous amount of hatred and death.
As for your last paragraph, too many people flat refuse to LISTEN due to their brainwashing. Hell, they don't - at least around the U.S., if the fundies here are any example - even want to really follow the teachings of love and respect from the the person who supposedly taught it to begin with.
It isn't posible to get someone to understand and accept one's argument if they refuse to even listen, let alone consider one's arguments..
As for the statement that is hard for non-believers to understand? CRAP! MANY MANY MANY of us left our religions because the people trying to "teach" us refused to even listen to our questions and concerns. We've been there!
I'm just trying to help the cause, speaking from my experience. I was a Calvinist who held my faith as a matter of conscience, didn't evangelize, and didn't talk about it unless I was asked. FWIW, I was also pro-choice, pro-gay rights, and pro-science. On several occasions, I was treated with intense hostility by atheists who questioned me about my church attendance. I've since rejected religion and belief in god but the confrontations from atheists, which included being told they 'hated people like me,' impeded my process of moving from faith to reason.
Delete9:36am
DeleteI apologize for your treatment by Atheists. I was raised Atheists and have never met any that were not kind and understanding. There are times when Atheists seem to be mocking those of faith, but most do not understand how people can have faith, why people need faith and often see it as a sign of weakness, when really, if faith is kept to oneself it really isn't anyone else's concern. Only when evangelizing and proselytizing are encountered does one's faith become another's concern.
When I was in grade school I had a catholic classmate who enquired if I was baptized, which of course I never was. He shared this with his parents because he was "worried for my eternal soul" due to my lack of baptism and because he was my friend he wanted to "save" me. During a soccer game his parents had the audacity to mention my lack of baptism to my parents, and while my parents are quiet, accepting and non judgmental Atheists with a lot of patience for those with other beliefs, this crossed the line and the man was bluntly told that it was none of his business, just as his catholicism was none of their business. Suffice it to say, the family treated us like we had "faith cooties" after that. So much for christian kindness, huh? Thankfully we lived in a university community with very few churches so we were more in the majority.
If everyone would just keep this shit to themselves we'd all be better off. Religion, or lack thereof, has proven time and time again to be a very poor judge of character.
"Personally I hope to live long enough to see the day when it is illegal to indoctrinate children into any religious belief until they are at least in their teens and they have developed the critical thinking skills to evaluate what they are being told is the "truth" behind whichever religion is making its sale pitch."
ReplyDeleteBe religion farce or guidance, this is an extremely tyrannical notion, indeed. All parents who raise their children are going to teach their children something, either according to what they themselves believe or by their actions. So who would step in to say, "you, sir (be you evangelist or atheist) cannot teach your child what you believe. You, sir, can!"
That is a tough one, philosophically speaking. All children are curious and they will question their origins as well as the origin of humans. Parents with religion would tend to share the tales they've learned through their faith, but hopefully most would temper it with the matching scientific information. Those that attend church are going to attend with their children and those children will be exposed to the faith of the parents. I suppose, in reality religions could give children a chance to either accept or deny the tenets of their faith, perhaps at a certain "coming of age" moment in their early teens.
DeleteMany children simply find out on their own that they don't believe in any god. Through education and exploration of the natural world they find that god and faith don't fit in with their world view. Some religious parents can accept that and some can't. I have friends who are examples of both.
I was raised by atheist parents who allowed me to attend church with my religious friends and find out what my own path would be; they didn't forbid me to explore any faith but they also made it clear that they did not believe in god or any of the biblical tales of creationism, etc. If I asked questions I was given a scientific answer and encouraged to do more research on my own. If I would have chosen to accept a religion my parents would have loved me just the same, even if they didn't agree with my choice.
I realize it is not realistic to ask religious people to keep their children ignorant of the faith of the parents, however it would be nice if they were allowed to make a choice to either accept or deny faith, at some point in their young lives without the risk of being shunned or excommunicated from their family.
The man speaks the truth. I'd love to see it in my lifetime, but I know it won't happen.
ReplyDeleteYou guys seem to have the mistaken belief that atheism is not a doctrine. Atheism is indoctrinated as well. It is a philosophy. Is is a specific explanation of how things came to be. Atheism is not a vacuum, absent of doctrine, but rather, a competing doctrine. Babies are not born Muslims, and they are not born atheists either. They are not born with the belief that they and everyone around them are "designoids." They would have to be indoctrinated to have such a position.
ReplyDeleteWho is most susceptible to imposing their views on others? Probably those unaware that they are just as sectarian as anyone else.