I am still on the fence about how much this will move the conversation forward, but I will open the comments section so that you can all express your opinions. If you feel so inclined.
I for one will be listening to it as much as I can, though I do have some work responsibilities which may distract me from time to time.
OT: Gryphen, get a load if this!!
ReplyDelete"We can't go to the Legislature to ask for help, (so) we decided to go to the guy upstairs," Ron Gibson, a dairy farmer in Weber County, Utah, told the Deseret News. "One thing you learn as a farmer is most of the things that happen in your life are totally out of your control."
Rajan Zed, who organized the Nevada service, said Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Jewish, Baha'i and other faith leaders who participated are confident it'll bring positive results.
"When God sees (all these) leaders sitting together in unity and harmony and praying in diverse traditions and seeking common good for the entire community, God will be naturally moved to provide the devotees relief from drought so that it will not affect their quality of life, livelihood and health," Zed said.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/religious-leaders-farmers-pray-water-west
WTF....
Ham is using all kinds of animation to photos to illustrate his argument, I wonder if Nye will be accorded the same opportunity?
ReplyDeleteNope. He is not.
DeleteDoes he have that photo of Jesus riding a dinosaur?
DeleteCorrection, he has a few pictures as well.
DeleteThat's called home field advantage, or as one of my good old boy coaches long ago called it, " That's Home Cookin'."
DeleteThanks for posting a reminder on this event. I tuned in right as it started. The proof was in the pudding at the end with the questions asked by the moderator that were submitted by attendees. Ham's repetition of talking points, which did not address those specific science questions, exposed him as intellectually defunct in life, natural, physical sciences, just like your blog, G. j/k
In a nutshell, Nye handed Ham's ass to him, in a respectful manner, of course. IMO, for what it's worth. Now I'm interested to read everybody else's takeaways. Thanks again for the post.
Uh oh, the crowd is packed with Ken Ham supporters.
ReplyDeleteWell of course it is, these assholes never play fair.
When Ham brings out the creationist scientist cheer-leading crowd right out of the gate... it's gonna turn out kinda like the Superbowl in the 3rd Quarter.
ReplyDeleteNye 43
Ham 0
Ham frames questions from his insanity...it is making my mind itch!
ReplyDeleteAurora
Ham's illustrations are propenganda!
ReplyDeleteThe Bible is NOT innerant!
ReplyDeleteas proved by all the other "bibles" on the ash heap of history. Not too many people trying to get Osiris or Apollo in to school science classes.
DeleteThe spill Ham is giving sounds nice but it's not what is going into the textbooks. He just said both sides are pulling from the same pool of evidence, it's just an interpretation of how it all got created.
ReplyDeleteThe fault with Creationists is they are doing the exact opposite of what he just explained. Today's creationists (the ones that are not on a stage) are saying "to hell with your interpretation. Ours is the only one that's right."
If they did not try to exclude both observations and conclusions, then I wouldn't ever have a problem with their point of view.
His dog/wolf thing is full of shit!
ReplyDeleteFunction vs appearance...
ReplyDeletethis is such an illumination of the rigid conservative mind vs the open liberal one...
golly...
I want Nye to list the criteria they need to meet to qualify creationism as science. Saying "science" does not make it science.
ReplyDeletehe can't be bringing in early 20th century eugenics...
ReplyDeleteI thought this was a debate, not a seminar. Ugh
ReplyDeleteDebate already... I'm ready to tune out
ReplyDeleteThis is simply one tedious informercial for the Creation Museum
ReplyDeleteSee the genetic evidence here:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/01/bill-nye-creationism-evolution
Aurora
Please alert me when Ken Ham is willing to be challenged
ReplyDeleteHow long is he supposed to talk? I'm at the 51:56 mark and he's just now going into another point of view after repeating himself at least three times prior to. I'm eager to hear Bill's rebuttal.
ReplyDeleteThis is not a creation debate. It's pure preaching. What is the moderator doing?
ReplyDeleteWere there any ground rules for this fiasco?
ReplyDeleteBill Nye should simply walk to the podium and say, "This guy is an idiot", drop the mic, and walk off.
ReplyDeletenot all humans are Christians, duh!
ReplyDeleteExactly. And if God created everything, He also lets people believe different things. The "Christian" ideal that only they are right is against everything Jesus taught. Ham is a hack. I shudder to think what would happen if kids were taught his 'science.' He assures is that he teaches critical thinking? Yeah, to be critical of science and reason.
DeleteHam's evidence: God says so.
ReplyDeleteHere's my problem with the scientists: He highlighted professors and scientists that created "scientific" things as if they created them alone.
ReplyDeleteNo problem. Don't use anything discovered with the scientific method. Enjoy life in a cave with stone tools.
DeleteYou are correct. Some of them created "scientific" things with other scientists.
Deletethat whole audience is packed with Ham's...they sold out their tickets in less than 5 mins...there is no mystery, now, why...
ReplyDeleteHam said that the Judeo-Christian God created marriage.
ReplyDeleteThat must come as a surprise to all of the Hindus, and Buddhists who are married. Not to mention the Greeks, Romans, and Chinese who have been getting married well before the emergence of Judaism in the world.
I'm assuming by "marriage", he's including LGBT folks.
DeleteNye won't win this because Ham doesn't believe that it's possible to date anything
ReplyDeleteNye does date things, he uses the writings of sheep herders translated many times to suit the whims of assorted political powers.
DeleteNye just doesn't use science to determine the likelihood of truth in his dating.
Each debater has 30 mins...not sure how long the rebuttal period will be...
ReplyDeleteBill Nye is being very reasonable.
ReplyDeleteHe really does not know his audience.
One site, listing megalithic monuments over 10,000 years old:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.megalithic.co.uk/search.php?query=10%2C000+years&country=&category=0&county=0&sitetype=&days=0&type=stories
Crowd couldn't be more lame
ReplyDeleteThey're also the local Tea Party. Not a black person in the group
DeleteBill Nye is asking the audience to think, and they can't...
ReplyDeletethis is an EXTRAORDINARY event!
Aurora
i noticed that Ham uses the Fox News approach to making his argument. Lots of flashy content, and brightly lit distractions ,to cover for your lack of facts.
ReplyDeleteNye on the other hand, is a little boring, but his presentation is laden with facts.
I am unable to live-stream the event without long skips and pauses, so I'm grateful for your updates. I did get to see Bill talk about fossils for like 30 seconds, and I think his quiet interested tone will convince some to at least hear him out, and even consider his points. If the deck is stacked, all the more chance to at least speak to the other side.
DeleteSame here, for some reason it reaches a time out and I have to refresh... then it's choppy.
DeleteTo his credit, I liked Ken Ham's presentation. He spoke well until he started talking about the bible. He was extremely factual until he started getting vague about the text and instructions from the bible. Good presentation overall though. It didn't change my view of creationism but I am glad to hear they do acknowledge that science "observational" and "historical" exists and is the foundation of it. I wonder how many creationists learned that tonight.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure he believes what he said. His teachings overall do not reflect such a balanced view.
DeleteThere was only one big bang to Sarah Palin and it involved Glen Rice.
ReplyDeleteBill gave a great presentation!
ReplyDeleteWell, much better reception than I expected!
ReplyDeleteHam is just blabbing...hmmm, reminds me of a certain Alaskan politician of the past...
ReplyDeleteHe keeps saying "you don't know that" but yet, he claims creationism is factual? Am I missing something? They use 6 days as factual but they don't know that. They were not there. Even with Adam and Eve. Isn't that contradictory?
ReplyDeletewell no - 'cuz gawd sez so
Delete8))
So according to Ham you cannot accept the evidence of the fossil record because there was no death until Adam and Eve sinned six thousand years ago?
ReplyDeleteIs it too early to start drinking?
Not an expert on Ham's theories, but weren't the animals all created and eating each other before Adam and Eve turned up. Or was it just all plants and one stupid snake?
DeleteOk, not so stupid. Not only could the snake talk but it spoke the same language that Eve used.
DeleteLet me guess. The snake spoke English. And so did Adam, Noah, Abraham and Moses. I bet those commandment tablets were written in English too. You know, because the America that wouldn't happen for a thousand years was in God's mind already. And we were special.
DeleteSally @ 5:31
DeleteWasn't the real Garden of Eden in Missouri, according to the Mormon " kkkristyuns" ?
So yeah, Adam, Eve, and snake(s) all spoke "sorta English", just as they do now.
OMG! My video just went out! It's a conspiracy!!! .....or is it? Dum Dum Duuuuuummmmm!!!!
ReplyDeleteFor those who don't know -- this happened repeatedly while Bill was dropping superior knowledge on Ken's audience. It was amazing! During this particular segment of "technical difficulties" Bill was kicking butts and taking names. He wiped the floor with Ken Ham's creationist points of view.
DeleteRefreshed my screen. Connected again :)
ReplyDeleteOhz Nohz! I'm knocked off again!!! Dum Dum Duuuuuuummmm!!!
ReplyDeleteHey now I'm back....Oh wait! Frozen again. Dum Dum Duuuummmmm!!!!
ReplyDeleteI'm back in. Not sure how much I missed.
ReplyDeleteKen Ham sounds a little defeated and exasperated in his counter-rebuttal. My heart goes out to him.
ReplyDeleteSave your heart for the homosexuals, feminists, and non-Christians Hen Ham rails against.
DeleteIf only he was defeated and exasperated. Maybe he'd shut up.
His explanation between the definition between species and kind didn't make sense. If anything it shows that creationism has disregarded the existence and their inability to separate the many variations of a species.
ReplyDeleteA failure to define terms characterizes the creationist fantasies.
DeleteNow he's jumping around and sounding a little skittish.
ReplyDeleteYeah I think Nye is getting to him.
DeleteYep! This is around the time I put a fork in Ken. That Ham was done!!
DeleteGryphen4:35 PM
DeleteYeah I think Nye is getting to him.
And you doubted he could handle it. See? He didn't need strength, just facts!
Yay, Bill!!!
ReplyDeleteHam's idea of God can only exist in a supreme egoist.
ReplyDeleteAurora
Ken Ham is a bullshit artist..
ReplyDelete...and a snake-oil salesman.
DeleteIf God made the universe for "his glory", then that makes him vain and a show-off! Isn't that against the many commandments? He makes it sound like he's a three year old saying "Look at me Mommy! Look at me!!!" Doesn't make sense.
ReplyDeleteWhere did we come from!
ReplyDeletelove Bill!!!
Ny's response: Knowing God created the stars satisfies you. It makes me want to know more. Fair response without dogging out creationism. Just shows the difference between accepting an answer without questioning it and a natural desire to learn more that what's given.
ReplyDeleteNye needs to bring up that the ancient Jews thought the stars were stuck in a firmament above the earth made up of water.
ReplyDeleteThere was no expanding universe described in the Bible.
The Bible explains where matter comes from?
ReplyDeleteAnd that's the only explanation that makes sense?
How can anybody take this guy seriously?
"...take dominion"...UGH!
ReplyDeleteHere are Ken Ham's answers to the next five questions:
ReplyDelete"There's a book out there."
"There's a book out there."
"There's a book out there."
"There's a book out there."
"There's a book out there."
Only a truly incurious person would accept that kind of answer to such complicated questions.
I know. It was funny the first two times but after that....he had nothing. It was kinda sad.
Delete'Outside of radio-metric evidence'...all life is vibration!
ReplyDeleteOldest Rocks on Earth Found
ReplyDeleteAndrea Thompson | September 25, 2008 10:02am ET
http://www.livescience.com/2896-oldest-rocks-earth.html
Scientists have found the oldest known rocks on Earth. They are 4.28 billion years old, making them 250 million years more ancient than any previously discovered rocks.
Earth formed about 4.6 billion years ago from a disk of gas and dust circling the sun. Remnants of crust from Earth's infancy are hard to come by because most of that material has been recycled into Earth's interior several times by the plate tectonics that continue to shape our planet's surface.
In 2001, geologists found an expanse of bedrock, known as the Nuvvuagittuq greenstone belt, exposed on the eastern shore of Hudson Bay in northern Quebec.
Ham is dead meat. I think Nye annihilated him. Maybe that is wishful thinking?
ReplyDeleteOh no! You are dead on. Bill posed questions to the audience that made them question EVERYTHING Ham and their religion has taught them. It was such an eloquent slap in the face with a dose of reality all in one setting. Perhaps the ones that received Bill's perspective are going to start the grieving process now. It will be interesting to see what comes of this over the next few days.
Delete"Ham is dead meat." -- LOL
DeleteHam said, "God used to hold everything together and now he doesn't quite so much." WTF?!?! Did God pull a Palin on us?!?!
ReplyDeleteSo the creation of sin, determines the age of the earth?
ReplyDeleteand the age of all the galaxies.
DeleteBill: So you want me to take your word over anything that I can observe on my own? That question pretty much boils down the main point of the debate doesn't it. Great question!
ReplyDeleteAncient text, an excellent description of the bible. that's all it is.
ReplyDeleteLogic is Christian??? how about the Arabs?
ReplyDeleteLogic is Christian? What a motherfucking ignorant ass.
DeleteA-R-I-S-T-O-T-L-E?
There is no proof man is getting smarter. but there is wide evidence people are getting dumber. Sarah Palin is case in point!
ReplyDeleteBut in fairness ,Anon 5:28, they have to practice it every waking hour fo to be that proficient with their ignorance.
DeleteSounds like Bill is recruiting out of Ham's flock! Hilarious. It's like watching him talk to children on his television shows. All that's missing is him asking if they want candy.
ReplyDeleteHe did have a children's science show at one time. Maybe that's why he was so easy to understand. Still over Ham's head I'm sure.
DeleteThank You, Gryph, for hosting this!
ReplyDeleteAurora
That was awesome!
ReplyDeleteDang! Looks like I was a blog whore. Sorry Uncle Gryphen. I was having sooo much fun. I don't get to listen to scientific debate that often. My apologies :)
ReplyDeleteFrom your proper spelling and grammar, you didn't drink as much as I did, SUPER FROM HOTLANTA. Took me 45 minutes to type this. Good comments from U.
DeleteAh shucks. Still haven't gotten an answer to the question that's bothered me. How did Noah know when he'd gotten every kind of amoeba onto the ark? Did he have a microscope? Or did God just give all the amoeba a free pass when all other animal life was destroyed?
ReplyDeleteNow, let's just think about it.
DeleteWhat did the ark float on?
And where do amoebas live?
from wiki: Amoeba proteus is very well known for its extending pseudopodia. It occupies freshwater environments ...
DeleteDoes the bible say the great flood somehow kept the ocean salt water and the land fresh water separate?
6:54pm
DeleteAmoebas are not strictly water-dwellers, the also live in soil.
Amoebas might be able to adapt to the brackish or saltwater, but what about the other insects? (Crickets chirping) Yeah, what about crickets? grasshoppers? what about ants?
DeleteWhat about TALKING snakes? Or talking donkeys, the one on Shrek? Why didn't Noah take a couple of each of the dinosaurs? Or ManBearPigs or PedoBears?
Nye is the Seahawks of science vs. insanity debate.
ReplyDeletei watched the whole thing, all this ham guy did was talk fast and talk in circles... if you stop the tape after each comment and goggle his reply's this ham guy is the biggest bullshitter going
ReplyDeleteI watched the entire debate...discussion, whatever this was supposed to be. I thought it odd giving each man that introduction but it was necessary to create a base. Ham sounded very knowledgeable with his spin along with his fancy graphics until the real truth was exposed.....the bible replaces all fact. Bill knew who his audience was in that theater and I got the distinct feeling he was talking to the rest of us....in cyber land. I believe his sole intention of doing this debate against this jerk, esp where he did it....was to promote real science education. How many times did he speak to voters...the dire need to believe in real science education instead of this fantasy. Bill was incredibly gracious and he was very direct and clear explaining the difference between "religious belief" and science fact. Ham never had an answer for basic questions....what about the billions of people that never heard of the bible? It is amazing how these people are hypnotized into believing this story written by desert people centuries ago instead of common knowledge. Praise the lord for all the good things...and I guess all the disasters/death are just his will......this all powerful, all seeing invisible spirit in the sky does it all. It all boils down to faith....faith in facts or the invisible man in a really old book. There might have been some younger people in the audience to start thinking...Bill is an excellent teacher to promote real science, he is the real deal.
ReplyDeleteAnyone notice how quickly Ham disappeared off stage whilst Nye took hand shakes from the crowd?
ReplyDeleteOn Facebook, there's a guy called "The Fat Pastor" who posted the link to this debate saying, "it's time Christians accept evolution" then changed it to "Tonight Ken Ham, of the Creation Museum; and Bill Nye, of Science, are going to debate. This makes me sad. Ken Ham does not speak for me as a person of faith. I wish someone like Michael Dowd (Thank God For Evolution) or Kenneth Miller (Finding Darwin's God) could be invited to this table."
ReplyDeleteThere's hope.
When Ken Ham was asked
ReplyDeleteif there was anything -- anything at all --
that would change his mind, he said...
No, I am a Christian and have
committed intellectual suicide
which is I why I believe in a literal
translation of a book
translated into American English from a bunch of
metaphorical, mythological stories
that defy reason, logic and facts.
(I am paraphrasing...)
I got a telemarketer call yesterday, "You have won a FREE Bible course, in your home."
ReplyDeleteI told her "That's the last thing I want, having been brought up a Baptist I know all about this book. I'm an atheist."
"When did you become an atheist?"
"When I grew up and started thinking for myself -- I was 16."
"Why?"
"Initially, it was a hypocrisy," I said.
"Yeah, a lot of people say that...," she admitted.
I told her, "I don't care what you believe, but why do you think everybody else has to think the same way you do?"
No answer.
And there's one more thing: "When the Great Flood water receded" -- if all the earth was covered in water -- where did the water GO....?
ReplyDeleteCan't/WON'T you 'believers' at least attempt to 'get behind the spark' on your narrative? We're being judged - and sent to eternal punishment in HELL - For NOT believing an UNBELIEVABLE STORY??!?? A power/being who made a universe 13.6 BILLION years ago - something we can never fully comprehend - Decides the ONE TIME he 'shows himself' - is to desert nomadic tribes, in the middle east, on some tiny rock planet, on the outer edge of one of billions of galaxies, thousands of years BEFORE our ability to VERIFY?!? Right alongside all of the other saviour-gods wannabees who were part of everyday life in that part of the world at that period? WHAT A COINCIDENCE!..:-) Then, your perfect-god gives us a book laden w/ riddles, rape, genocide and contradictions which suffers through countless translations, explanations, political pressures (Ecumenical Council, etc)?!? Why-Oh-WHY can't He - GOD - simply BE CLEAR? And (not so) FUNNY: All these religions have hair-raising similarities: BLOOD Sacrifice, VIRGINS & BS rules which cannot be applied to REALITY (see Leviticus!). As noteworthy: Whether Islam, Christianity, Mormonism, etc - Funny how god ONLY speaks to ONE SINGLE Dude - Joseph Smith/Paul/Moses (etc) Out there all by himself - No witnesses, no verification - "Just take me at my word, easy right?" Why can't "GOD" just say what needs to be said - to ALL of us, so we're ALL on the same page? Instead of hiding behind some opaque screen of hide and seek? And as modern times evolve (complete w/ video cameras, etc) and superstition recedes: SO HAVE ALL OF THOSE 'miracles' - Coincidence?!? Why can't you people simply spell 'god' - WITH TWO "Os"? Easy/Peasy!
ReplyDeleteFinally: If god knows what is/was/will be - WHY then did the very FIRST people he made SCREW EVERYTHING UP?!? He didn't 'see that coming'? Yes, we're 'imperfect' - but according to YOUR fable, HE made us that way - Yet WE get the blame for his game of 'Dare You' over some fruit?
Either you devolve into 'We can't understand HIS WAYS.." - OR - You believers indeed 'get behind the spark' and come to terms with this MAN-MADE FANTASY, just like all the others - and probe deeper into your being to find a means to manifest the GOODNESS you'd like to see in this world. Goodness - for a ticket to heaven? If your goodness is 'for sale' then it's PROSTITUTION, so lose that ulterior motive! As for god and being good? Just CUT OUT THE MIDDLEMAN!