What I read there quite literally made me incredibly uneasy, to the point of being somewhat shocked.
I actually read it twice because I found it so hard to believe.
Here is what was posted:
This is so precious:
“The 10 best hours of my life,” is how Lindsey Dennis describes her short time with Sophia Kyla, born last fall. Lindsey and husband Kevin found out at the 20th week of her pregnancy that Sophia had a brain disorder that is 100 percent fatal. Their heartbreak has been eased by an organization run by volunteers called, Now I Lay Me Down to Sleep, whose mottos is “Providing the gift of remembrance photography for parents suffering the loss of a baby.”
“As a more intense grieving began for us, having photos of Sophie when she was alive and well just meant the world to us,” Kevin explains.
What a wonderful organization and a perfect way to celebrate life — no matter how short.
So to be clear this woman went through nine months of pregnancy just to have ten hours of watching her newborn suffer as its little body slowly died.
And they then had the experience documented through photographs so that they could relive it over and over again.
I don't think I have ever heard of anything so selfish and macabre in my life.
At twenty weeks they could have chosen to protect their child from future suffering by aborting the pregnancy. But instead they are so aggressively "pro-life" that in their minds it was better to give birth to a child who will never have a chance at life, then to allow the pregnancy to terminate with no pain for the fetus.
As a parent learning that your child had no hope of survival is without a doubt the most painful thing one can imagine, but your decision about what to do next should focus on protecting that child from unnecessary hardship and NOT on your own ideological sensibilities.
It seems the rallying cry of the anti-abortion movement is "To give birth at all cost," but that seems incredibly myopic and unreasonable.
Maybe I am simply not seeing this clearly, so if anybody has a different opinion please share. Because, to be honest, I am unable in this case to see both sides of the issue.
Evidence is, the brain disorder was not fatal 100% of the time. Assuming it was genetic. If you take my meaning if you get my drift.
ReplyDeleteNo. I do not.
DeleteLiz I.
DeleteI think the Nasty Liberal meant to say that the parents of the fetus were obvious sufferers from a brain disorder yet had lived to tell the tale.
Gotta' live up to my name, don'cha know.
DeleteThat you did.
DeleteThe only thing I can think of is the couple was hoping that the doctors were wrong.
ReplyDeleteThat was my thought as well. It may not be so much a matter of pro life zealotry as a case of being hopeful that the doctors were wrong or the infant would somehow overcome the condition.
DeleteI'm not sure what my choice would be in that scenario. But I would want to have a choice.
Was this a case of anencephaly? Because that is pretty much, nope, no chance docs are wrong.
DeleteTwo things I thought were
Delete- there may also have been statistical uncertainties with the tests at 20 weeks, so they wanted to wait and see
- very few clinics offer abortions at 20 weeks, and even fewer at 24 weeks. So they may not have had the option to choose abortion anyway.
If the fetus dies in utero there is also a risk of infection, which can be harmful to the mother. Karen Santorum found out at 19 weeks that the baby she was carrying had a heart defect, which would be fatal to the still developing fetus. In spite of the warnings that this involve a high risk operation that had little chance of success and could harm the mother, Rick and Karen Santorum chose to have an operation on the fetus and his heart. The operation was not successful, and, as the doctor warned, Karen developed a terrible infect. When her temperature was up to 105 degrees, they decided to risk giving her antibiotics, even though this might harm the fetus. (The fetus wasn't going to live anyway). The result was a spontaneous abortion or miscarriage or whatever you want to call it. The fetus was removed, and they claimed that it lived for two hours as it lay between them in the hospital bed. (Sounds like a horror movie). A 19 or 20 week old fetus with a defective heart cannot live outside the womb, but never mind the real facts, this is the Santorum Family story. Then, they brought the dead fetus home so the kids could take turns getting to know the brother that they would never have.
ReplyDeleteRick Santorum loves to tell that story and Karen wrote a book about it. I'm sorry to be crude and direct, but the fetus is called "medical waste" and is not allowed to be removed from the hospital. She had a major infection. The fetus may have been infected as well as they passed it around. The fetus belong in the pathology department, not lying between Karen and Rick in a hospital bed. Leaving a dead baby inside the mother is a great risk to her.
The real point of Rick's story is that along the way, they made choices. They had a diagnostic test that showed that the baby's heart was defective. If you're going to have the baby no matter what, there are no tests. Have the baby. Period. Then they made the dangerous choice for intrauterine surgery. Then they made the choice to give Karen antibiotics, even though it meant that the baby would be aborted. Rick Santorum bases his politics on being pro-life, meaning that other women do not have any choice or say in their reproductive life. But Rick and Karen exercised choice after choice, while denying choice to others. The most mild word to describe that is Hypocrite.
Karen lived with her Abortion Doctor lover before living with Rick Santorum.
Delete"But Rick and Karen exercised choice after choice, while denying choice to others."
DeleteThis is an important statement. For if we are to believe the right-wingers who argue (ridiculously) for "zygote rights," it would seem to me that an endangered fetus should have as much a say in its own we-being as any other cognizant individual. But the unborn are ostensibly denied such normative consideration because they cannot quite obviously speak on their own behalf and are forced into birth only to suffer.
The benefit and privileged of virtue must ideally apply to all, if it is be applied at all.
She did NOT have a spontaneous abortion, she CHOSE to abort a non viable fetus to save her life which is perfectly acceptable. Why are you trying to lie and say she did not make the decision to abort?
DeleteThat's just sick!
DeleteKind of like little George W. Bush seeing the fetus his mother miscarried saved in a jar.
Deletehttp://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2010/11/09/the-strange-bush-fetus-secret-barbara-bush-shows-george-w-bush-the-results-of-her-miscarriage-in-a-jar.html
Remember hole in his heart Trig and $arah is back to work in three days? Yeah, RIGHT.
DeleteTo those who have children with disabilities, my hat is off you. Gryph, for your time making a difference! As for the Bush family for fetuses in a jar and painting dogs for therapy, yeah. Jeb 2016!
Some more details to 12:15 pm
Delete"Upon their son's death, Rick and Karen Santorum opted not to bring his body to a funeral home. Instead, they bundled him in a blanket
and drove him to Karen's parents' home in Pittsburgh.
There, they spent several hours kissing and cuddling Gabriel with
his three siblings, ages 6, 4 and 1 1/2.
They took photos, sang lullabies in his ear and held a private Mass."
" Rick and Karen were appalled to see him described -- "a 20-week-old fetus" -- on a hospital form.
They changed the form to read "20-week-old baby."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61804-2005Apr17.html
During the 2012 primary cycle, Alan Colmes said the Santorum's had allowed their other children
" to play with " the deceased fetus.
The subsequent outcry from the far right caused Colmes to apologize to Santorum.
Although, I think the 1 1/2 and 4 year old probably thought the fetus was a doll
they were " kissing and cuddling ", so Colmes was not totally wrong in his description.
How strange Brancy would post this? Wasn't its Palin's own very good friend Gatto? Introduced at dead baby Birth Certificate law? I think it was signed into law beginning of 09?
DeleteMy understanding is that the Santorums knew that (rightfully) treating Mrs. Santorum for her sepsis would result in a non-viable pre-term labor. They (again rightfully) chose to have her receive the antibiotics to save her life.
DeleteTHIS is the kind of choice that he would like to take away from everyone else!
Yes, it is true that Mrs. Santorum was involved and livng with a doctor who performed abortions.
Well, this couple has the right to make that choice, but I have the right to say it's macabre and hope that the laws that allow another couple to have the choice to abort remain on the books.
DeleteAt the time of conception, God infuses a soul into what is called a human being, NOT medical waste!!!! What I can't figure out is, when do you "Pro abortion" people think human life begins. Is there a "split second" sometime between one day after conception and when the baby is born that he or she is considered to be a human being? NO! As soon as conception takes place, God infuses a soul and THAT is when there is a new life! Nobody, I mean nobody has the right to take another human being's life weather it be still in the womb or outside of the womb. God has a plan for everybody. It is in His plan as to when you die, not another human being.
DeleteTo each their own. I would never tell another what to do in these circumstances. Of course, it would be great if that worked both ways and Bristol Palin's ghostwriter didn't tell others what they should or should not be doing when it comes to deciding whether or not to be a parent.
ReplyDeleteFor someone who claims to have been raped, Bristles sure looks proud to be pregnant. Why is she holding a hockey puck, is she giving a signal to the hockey team that one of them is going to be a daddy?
DeleteAnon @ 6:07 P.M. - it sure as hell is a signal; the goal light is on, someone scored!
DeleteBristol does not write those columns. Nancy and her Patheos organization is in the business of finding these inspirational stories to sell their brand of Christianity. I just wonder how much rent she pays Bristol to use her name, blog and facebook site.
ReplyDeleteI doubt very much that Bristol even knows the meaning of the word "patheos."
DeleteRemember Frothy and the miscarriage that spent the night in their bed?
ReplyDeleteChoose one: 1. Not as creepy. 2.As creepy. 3. Even creepier.
First of all, it was not a miscarriage, but an aborted fetus. Secondly it was illegal since they removed the fetus from the hospital to bring home to have their children hold. The infection Karen Frothy had made the fetus itself a biohazard to every surface and person it came into contact with. Some Dr or administrator should have lost their license. We do have laws dealing with dead bodies and ones known to be contaminated have a host of other laws regulating what can and cannot be done with them for the betterment of our society and to regulate outbreaks of disease.
DeleteSo, I guess what we can take away from this is that the Santorums feels that laws are for other people who aren't as special as they are.
Delete28 years ago, we took our premature son off the vent. He was brain dead and in kidney failure. We could have continued his life(a living horror) or remove him from life support.
ReplyDeleteI would never presume what to tell another pregnant women what to do.
However, I would want the same courtesy and would NEVER force a woman to continue a pregnancy under those conditions.
Women should have the right to do what is best for them and their family. NOBODY should tell them what they can and/or cannot do with their body or pregnancy.
I felt as a mother, the best thing I could do was to end my child's suffering as soon as possible. Just as I would wish the same done for me if the situation was reversed.
So sorry for your loss. The loss of a child is something a parent can never really get over. I know, having lost my 45 year old son a few years ago. At least I had him for many years, got to know him. Miss him daily.
DeleteThese people are whacked! Just like the Duggars who took photos of their dead baby miscarried at 19 weeks.
ReplyDeletehttp://joronomo.com/this-just-in-duggar-miscarriage-memorial-exploited-with-dead-baby-photos/#.U0G5aV6LFg0
Sick people.
That is also the exact same thing that popped into my head when Gryphen wrote this thread.
DeleteOh & guess what? The Never-Been-Kissed Duggar Women Have Relationship Advice for You. All 4 of them wear purity rings. At least they're not engaged to their father.
http://www.thewire.com/culture/2014/04/the-never-been-kissed-duggar-women-have-relationship-advice-for-you/359339/
I was raised in an evangelical protestant school all my life. In elementary school we were allowed to visit the college library on "library days". We went through ALL the National Geographic magazines and marked a little red X on the ones that had pictures of native cultures showing women with naked breasts. Word got around and ALL the elementary school kids practically wore out those copies lol. It was like Playboy for kids! You keep children sheltered enough and some of them will eventually go rogue like I did. Actually that school was one where Palin showed up to speak - Faulkner U. in Montgomery, AL. Both my parents taught there - they have since passed. Being raised that way screwed me up for many many many years!
DeleteNice to see a recent picture of Bristol after all this time. Looks like it about time to dump little Junkie Junior unless daddy was one of her one night stands.
ReplyDeleteNot a recent pic at all. Look at her face, it is pre plastic surgery.
DeleteThat photo is from "Bristol's" book written by Nancy French.
DeleteSeems like 12:35 is joking.
DeleteBristol Palin has avoided the camera since she started 'showing' during her current pregnancy. Nancy French is as stupid as the Palins for trying to hide their babies.
DeleteWhich Pregnancy photo is that for Bristol, #1,#2,or #3? Tri-g, Tripp, or DWTS? She has become camera shy with #4, Junker Jr. Bristol is only happy when she is Pregnant. Why are there no photos of Bristol and her classmates? Is Bristol ashamed that Junker or (1 night stands????) impregnated her for her 4th pregnancy?
ReplyDeleteBristol is hardly the picture for this topic. Our daughter ended up pregnant at 16 and we openly adopted our first granddaughter out to a couple whose daughter never made it out of the hospital after 13 months, and their doctor said "no more babies" to them. We didn't have the $$ nor was our daughter capable of being a mom at that age. It was the right thing to do.
ReplyDeleteI think that's why I hate one miss Sarah Heath (ex-Palin) so much. Don't even give me your bullshit, tart. A DS child you never gave birth to, parading the "shame" of your daughter in public so you can collect money and attention. FUCK you. Just FUCK you.
My first granddaughter will be 13 in two weeks and is a bigger Christian than you, you miserable piece of shit. God and your stupid Christmas book, my @ss. Climb up on the cross with Jesus in 12 days, you bitch.
Thanks, Gryph, for letting me vent.
love your post Thanls!
DeleteMust have been a heartbreaking choice to make, however you brought joy to a childless couple. Plus, your grandchild is being loved and raised by a couple who REALLY wanted a baby. Thank you. I hope things worked out for your daughter.
DeleteI apologize for the words I used. I just get SO tired of her psychobabble. Boy, could I do and one-on-one with her that she would never agree to. Our daughter is doing well, and thank you both for your kind words!
DeleteI am "pro-choice" and believe it was the couple's "right" to "choose" to deliver a child that they were told would not live after birth. Although it would not be "my choice", it was theirs. Parents do many things for many reasons. However this was a decision that they probably should have kept private. Also they have given "Now I Lay Me Down to Sleep" some invaluable PR for their business model (also their choice). I hope they will be able to look at those photos in future and not regret their "choice".
ReplyDeleteSarah gave birth to three brain dead children ... Track, Bristol and Willow.
ReplyDeleteGood one! Sally Heath gave birth to at least one brain dead child ... Sarah Heath Palin.
DeleteSarah's brother is nothing to write home about.
DeletePhotographers have been doing this for decades, usually completely free of charge to snap pics of actual babies that have passed on or that are going to. Most hospitals usually have a memorial box of some sort to give to parents of stillborns, a nice outfit for that one pic, some even include a disposable camera. . Please remember, even with today's technology there are stillborns or babies born with genetic defects( very few pregnancies are ever tested) and these are very unpleasant circumstances.
ReplyDeleteThat said, having a child that is non viable doesn't make sense to me for a variety of reasons, I cannot think of anything more traumatic. AS far as I am concerned it even borders on Munchausen's by proxy to want the fetus born to suffer. But as a Pro choice individual it is not my choice to make for anyone but myself. Though I think a percentage of women in our society are raised to think their only worth is an active uterus and to me that is the real shame.
Little Rabbit
I had an early (10 weeks) missed abortion with my second pregnancy. I wasn't sad or devastated. I had a D&E as quickly as I could so we could start trying to get pregnant again. My mother had a similar early missed abortion and had to wait until nature "took it's course," which meant another two months of pregnancy, with a constant reminder that there would be no viable baby at the end. That's only one of the reasons my mother is so staunchly pro-reproductive choice (and taught me the same).
ReplyDeleteI feel sorry for this couple, not only because they got such horrible news about a much wanted pregnancy, but also because I think they prolonged their suffering. Every day, every pound gained, every twinge was a reminder that their baby was going to die not long after delivery. They had a nursery set up. How terrible they had to go home to that. It certainly wouldn't be my choice. I would have mourned my pregnancy and what might have been and gotten myself ready for the next one.
What's also sad is that this couple made their decision and it's being used by people like Nancy French to hold up some crazy idea about "choosing life."
Maybe this couple's baby didn't suffer any pain, but another baby might. My idea of love or life isn't prolonging my own agony or the potential agony of a child and it certainly isn't immersing myself in grief and false hope for 20 more weeks while I wait for the inevitable (upon which time, I'd only have more grief and mourning to deal with).
My heart to you. I know how hard it is......
DeleteMe too. I felt for a long time that something was wrong with me, that I would never get pregnant again. Went on to have two sons, easy pregnancies.
DeleteIt is their choice - I respect that.
ReplyDeleteA girl I work with was told her fetus/kid would not live but a few hours after birth..but the kid is about 5 today. A total train wreck requiring 24 hour nursing care, tube feeds, suctioning, etc. No quality of life and they have 4 other kids as well, normal kids.
The husband had a great job as a trainer for a major league BB team in a large US city. He gave it all up to become a fundy minister, living off the congregation. The wife has a masters in nursing, but is a stay at home mom.nursing.
But, I still respect their choices (except the leavbing of a 200k job for a minster job.
I respect their right to their choice, but frankly, I don't respect their choice. The kid has no quality of life and lessens the quality of the life of the entire family.
Delete1:29pm
DeleteSounds like the rest of us are probably paying for all of their bad choices; having too many children, major medical bills for broken baby, leaving good job and having trained wife who chooses not to work in her field because they have overbred.
Wish I could choose where my tax dollars go but unfortunately I can't. Hopefully their church takes care of most of their financial needs, but somehow I doubt it. We are paying for all of their bad decisions. Sad.
2'26
DeleteOP here.
I think you said it better. I respect their right to chosr bu not their choice.
Yes absolutely - a stupid choice(S) ALL AROUND!
I think it is wrong to judge this mother and father. No one knows what grief they experienced before the birth of their child, what wild hopes they held onto. I only know that, during the last four months of my pregnancy after having been told that there was only a "one in ten thousand" chance that our child would be born alive, I rejoiced every time he hopped around inside me and despaired during all of his quiet times. We were lucky; he was born healthy. That all happened almost 40 years ago and I still feel the pain of the experience when I think or talk about it. In our case, the doctors were never able to explain how our son survived. To be an expecting parent is to hope for the future; these parents hoped just as we did but they did not have a good outcome. Having a photo or film memento of their child must have been very important to them. This is something that is done regularly in hospitals when newborns die. I can understand. I only hope that, with time, these parents can put the photo/film memento away and move on with their lives and, hopefully, have healthy children.
ReplyDeleteBristol/Nancy are mistaken to think that it is about having an abortion or not having an abortion and they are wrong to use the story to promote their version of the debate between choice and anti-choice. This is a story about how one family tried to hold on to their hope and how they addressed their grief. It has nothing to do with gender politics but Bristol and her ilk would not understand the difference.
Beaglemom
Such a sensitive, compassionate reply. Thank you for sharing it.
DeleteVery beautifully said, Beaglemom.
Delete12:45 here. Thank you, Beaglemom, and to others that have posted their experiences. My heart to you.
DeleteBeaglemom,
DeleteThank you for sharing your story and pointing out that Bristol, et al, were wrong in using this story to illustrate the abortion issue. This is not about abortion but the right to make an informed decision and choice.
Sheesh
I would imagine that any woman would pray that her baby is going to be born healthy, even if the doctors think otherwise. It must be heartbreaking to be told such sad news. Thank goodness your outcome proved the doctor wrong.
DeleteEvery day that the baby was alive, they may have hoped that somehow it would survive. There is nothing to indicate that the medical condition of the child necessarily included pain before or after birth.
ReplyDeleteAs for the photos, that has been done by and for grieving parents since the invention of photography. In the 1800s, when infant and child mortality was high, parents frequently had a photograph taken of their deceased child as a memorial and tangible sign that the child had been a part of their lives. I doubt if the psychological state of grieving parents has changed much over the centuries.
If it was known that a developing fetus (baby to the parents-at least I never referred to any of my children as "my fetus" before birth nor have I heard any other parent do so) was in fact experiencing pain, and the parents continued the pregnancy, and if it was obvious that the baby was in pain after birth, and the parents did nothing to relieve the pain, then I would have a problem with their decisions.
Otherwise, I would not second-guess how they chose to deal with their heart-breaking situation.
"when she was alive and well"
ReplyDeleteHow can the few hours waiting for a newborn to die possibly be 'the best hours of my life?' This is self-deception. It's morbid and disturbing. And it's their right. The infant was never 'well' but she LOOKS well in the pretty photo. I'm all for leaving this couple, and others like them, alone with their decisions and coping mechanisms for their grief.
What's not okay is the effort to legally force others into similar circumstances.
I think it's their choice. I don't think it's the choice I would have made, but I don't know. I can see your point, but not everyone may feel that way. There's no harm in hoping the doctors are wrong.
ReplyDeleteI will say this: I worked as an office assistant at my church, and we had a memorial service for baby still born at six months. I prepared a small bulletin, and normally, we ask for a photo of the deceased, but obviously, that wasn't forthcoming. I thought maybe baby angel or something would work so I googled "baby funeral."
The point of this little narrative is that if you want to take pictures of your dead baby as a personal remembrance, that's your choice. Do not, I repeat, DO NOT post those photos on the internet to accost people doing internet searches. I was *traumatized* by some of the images I saw.
I have real problems with this statement:
Delete“As a more intense grieving began for us, having photos of Sophie when she was alive and well just meant the world to us,”
Sophie was NEVER "alive and well", she was dying from the moment she was disconnected from the umbilical. It takes a special kind of delusional to think there was a moment there when she was "just fine."
But the real issue here is just what you said. "It was their choice". Exactly as it should have been, regardless of how you or I feel about it. Just like it should have been if they'd decided instead that it was better for everyone involved to end the pregnancy as soon as they found out about the defect.
Republicans have no qualms about forcing parents to go through what these parents chose to, even though it would likely be a horrifically traumatizing and cruel experience to many.
What's terrific about Bristol's message is that no matter how positive and life-affirming her ghost writer attempted to make it sound, EVERYONE who sees it is going to really think about it and put themselves in that situation. And I guarantee you, many will not have the revelation that Bristol hoped for, they will suddenly see the other side of "pro-choice", possibly for the first time.
There's a reason we call it "pro-choice" and they call it "pro-abortion". We're not the myopic ones trying to make a cookie cutter black & white decision for everyone else's situation. We're not the ones inventing cartoon stereotypes of sex-crazed sluts getting abortions every other week at the local abortion-mat in the mall just for fun.
I say everyone should promote the hell out of "Bristol's" message, because it is a brilliant illustration of why choice is a basic human right that the government has no business trying to legislate.
Mini-Me and Mommie Dearest would love to their name attributed to legislation backtracking Roe vs. Wade.. Guess what? They can't. Keep harping, cacti queens. Summer's coming, Bristol, time for a new tent! How many is this now?
DeleteI think this is a lame pre-emptive strick by bristles because the shit is about to hit the fan with the fake pregnancies by both sarah and her and maybe wallow too bwahaha! couldn't happen to better people the grifter clan from wasilly or az who gives a fuck. bring on the birth certificate you fucking hag
ReplyDeleteI hope you're right..she and her spawn should be exposed for the hypocrites they are.
DeleteHosting a television show is nothing new for the former governor, who began her career as a sportscaster for an Anchorage-area TV station and later hosted "Sarah Palin's Alaska" on TLC.
ReplyDelete#######
Why was Sarah Heath let go as a sportscaster in Alaska?
What happened to the short lived Sarah Palin's Alaska?
Sarah is one of those failures that doesn't know when to quit.
W
IIRC her "career" was an internship, and it did not lead to a real job as any sort of broadcaster.
DeleteShe sucked and they didn't offer her a job.
DeleteToo many viewers complained of bleeding eardrums after each of $carah's broadcasts, so she did not get a contract. Strangely, no other TV station wanted her, either.
DeleteIf Sarah Palin's Alaska reality show was so great, why didn't we ever see a season 2 or 3 or 4? Where is all of the spin off merchandise? Nada. Niente, Nothing. There never was anything there. Everything that was arranged for her family to do looked fake fake fake. While Palin claims to be a journalism major, she did not say or do anything that would want to make you want to watch that show. The people who did watch it did it with the same interest as watching a train wreck.
DeleteFox gave Sarah one hour to pretend to present interesting Americans and that was another show that went nowhere. She has made very few appearances on Fox lately. Maybe it's because even when they supply the questions and answers, Sarah cannot stick to the script. When she does improvise, it doesn't make any sense.
How about Sarah's speeches? There used to be suckers willing to pay $100,000 + $18,000 in first class travel expenses. Sarah gives very few of those speeches for the same reason. She cannot remember what's on the script. She can't read the teleprompters and it's annoying to see her look down at her papers, looking for something to say, and the whole thing turns into a disjointed mess. Who is it that keeps putting Palin on TV and thinks that's a good idea? She's a flop at all of it.
Sarah was "let go" from her interning after she gave a college basketball player a blow job instead of an interview.
DeletePalin is a product of the media. She has nothing of substance to say, but the media is fascinated by how she says nothing. If anyone is looking for a prime example of the dumbing down of American politics, Palin should be at the top of the list.
ReplyDelete-Unknown
she's set women's rights back 50 years with her mealy-mouthed holier than thou bullshit. she's an embarrassment to our gender.
Delete"Our meals happen to be wrapped in fur, not cellophane," Palin said,
ReplyDeleteMaybe they should get a Brazilian Wax job?
OMG.
DeleteThat is hood.
The anti-science/anti-women/anti-abortion/forced-birth crowd is gaining power. They're not just looking to reverse Roe v. Wade and leave abortion rights up to the states. They intend to criminalize abortion everywhere. Period. And Sarah Palin, though she told Katie Couric she didn't want women going to jail, has worked to advance this cause since she landed on the national stage. She's positioned herself and Bristol as icons of the anti-women's-freedom movement.
ReplyDeleteSo. What can we...will we...do about it?
we can vote & we can protest. It pisses me off that after my generation fought for women's rights and finally achieving the goal of giving women the right to make choices about their bodies we're having to fight this battle all over again. weak sisters like palin who count on their physical appeal rather than their intellect and education have taken us to this place. it sickens me. she is the ringleader of this movement, so once again you sniveling cowards who could come forward and finally scrape this fetid piece of human waste off the national stage but are too cowardly, SHAME ON YOU!
DeleteI don't actually think they're gaining power necessarily as much as they're desperately trying to hang on to the power they have in the face of a population that is getting more and more liberal and less and less religious.
Deleteshe is the ringleader of this movement, so once again you sniveling cowards who could come forward and finally scrape this fetid piece of human waste off the national stage but are too cowardly, SHAME ON YOU!
Delete*****
HellYA! Great comment like 100x
“The 10 best hours of my life,” is how Lindsey Dennis describes her short time with Sophia Kyla, born last fall.
ReplyDeleteThat is really, really sick in the head.
I know what my own personal choice would have been in that situation. Sometimes we treat our pets better than children. When you have a pet that is suffering and you know it's going to die - you take it to the vet and have it put to sleep. You don't let it live on and on and on suffering for hours or days because of your own selfish attachment to it and I HAVE seen people do that. Now THAT is cruel.
ReplyDeleteIt's called pro-choice. It's not your choice or my choice, it was their choice and who are any of us to judge them or their decision.
ReplyDeleteWe judge people all the time. We judge them as making what we see as good choices or bad choices. Judging people is not the same as respecting that they have a choice.
DeleteOh please, no need to preach to liberals and progressives! We KNOW that! Why do you think WE call it pro-choice?
DeleteIf you're going to preach to someone about judging there are plenty of right-wing sites to preach at. Especially the ones that are trying to take away women's right to make our own decisions! So there.
I haven't seemn anything written on this blog saying it is not their choice so why are you so worried? But yet I have the feeling if you didn't agree with MY CHOICE, you would think it was up to you to decide for me.
DeleteNo one here has said it *wasn't* their choice. They had a choice and made it. But that doesn't mean they are exempt from criticism or the consequences of their choice. They chose to bring a dying child into the world, just as many others choose to bring children into the world that they aren't prepared or equipt to care for. And we are free to make judgements on their decisions, because free thought and thinking skills haven't been outlawed (yet.)
DeleteYes, we can judge them for a number of reasons. first, the fetus in the ultrasound is clearly and horribly anencephalic - without a brain beyond the brain stem and without a skullcase above the eyebrows. There is no there, there, never was and never will be. Sophia Kyla was a myth, as much as if this had been a false pregnancy. And playing make-believe would have been fine if it only involved the two parents.
ReplyDeleteBut that isn't how modern society works. For it (and it was an IT) to be birthed, that required a c-section - at expense either to tax payers or to her fellow insurance pool's members. Then there are the docs and nurses time she took up to "deliver" something that had about as much personhood as a tumor.
You have the choice to live out your fantasies, but do it on your won dime and time.
"I thought this was precious". Why do I feel the need for an airsickness bag when I read their bullshit.
ReplyDeleteWe lost our first child full term and were given the option to memorialize the event with a "tastefully done" family portrait. Our choice was not to get it done. Autopsy? Thanks, but no thanks. This was 26 years ago, We grieved with our family and trusted friends, had a memorial service and burial. That was our choice. The worst part was seeing the other moms having their kids wheeled in and the joy they were feeling, knowing we'd leave empty handed. And avoiding the nursery.
Their "choice" is their right, we all grieve differently, but someone calling it "precious" is a bit much. There's nothing to "celebrate" and there's nothing "precious" about the death of a child. There isn't a word for the event. If one's spouse passes, they're a widow/widower. If the parents die, they're orphans.
"Now I lay me down to sleep"?!?!?! Ughhh, another useless euphemism.
Bristol and the preg belly: Her face is too thin carry off the fake pg padding.....the Palins were trying to "puck" the public with this photo. Penalty box full of lies.
ReplyDelete7:36 Thanks for that thought. Given how big her face gets when she gains weight, why would she be so thin-faced if she was this pregnant?
DeleteIt's only a posed photo. And they could have "posed" it using the fake belly.
Or, maybe the photo was taken earlier than we were lead to believe it was. Or maybe they never really told us when the photo was taken and we just assumed the rest.
Yes, I suspect the best pregnancy pic Bristol ever took was this one with the Palin family fake-pregnancy belly and a professional photographer. How "glowing" she looks...lol
DeleteBristol 'glows' every time she spreads her legs for a Trial Daddy. Too bad that none stay around for marriage. I guess that Bristol can't find a Chump like Todd to claim other guys' babies as their own.
DeleteGryphen, this post is needlessly insensitive and offensive. You've concluded that the family should've decided on an abortion at 20 weeks, with no understanding of the serious (and confronting) medical, legal, financial, ethical, moral and spiritual questions their situation poses.
ReplyDeleteI'd strongly urge you to read this thread on Andrew Sullivan's blog that emerged after George Tiller's murder, here:
http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/threads/its-so-personal/
Perhaps then you can reconsider what it is to be 'pro-choice'.
I disagree, Anon 1:50. I have found this post and the comments to be thoughtful and well-considered. I don't have to reconsider what it means to be pro-choice. It means that I have choices and you have choices. I may not agree with your choice but I don't have the right to force my choice upon you. And I would certainly not force someone to give birth to a child they don't want nor to abort a child based on my opinion. Choice--because life is full of uncertainties and no one size fits all.
DeleteI agree completely with your comments about what 'choice' means. Gryphen is quite clear that he doesn't understand the decision, and believes the family made the wrong one, e.g.
Delete"I don't think I have ever heard of anything so selfish and macabre in my life."
"At twenty weeks they could have chosen to protect their child from future suffering by aborting the pregnancy. But instead..."
"...but your decision about what to do next should focus on protecting that child from unnecessary hardship and NOT on your own ideological sensibilities."
I haven't yet watched the video (which is a documentary about the photographers, not the families per se) - but why does he assume the family's decision was only about ideology? There is nothing said about how the family came to their decision. It doesn't say the decision was forced on them by pro-lifers or their own ideologies. Not only does the post judge them for the decision they made, but then accuses them of being selfish. So yes, that's offensive and most certainly not what the 'pro-choice' is about.
From a very pragmatic perspective, the post assumes that abortion was even an option, i.e. that they had timely access to abortion services. At 20 weeks it's not a given. It may not be covered by your insurance, not supported by your medical team (who can refuse to refer you to other service providers), not available in your city (therefore requiring travel, perhaps a few days depending on the procedure and mandatory waiting periods). Hence there are legal and financial considerations.
This site has some statistics on availability:
Deletehttp://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html
"• Forty-two percent of abortion providers offer very early abortions (before the first missed period) and 95% offer abortion at eight weeks from the last menstrual period. Sixty-four percent offer at least some second-trimester abortion services (13 weeks or later), and 23% offer abortion after 20 weeks. Only 11% of all abortion providers offer abortions at 24 weeks.[8]"
In what way do you find this post to be "insensitive and offensive?" I thought Gryph did a good job at expressing his thoughts and asking for ours. I don't see what you "prochoice" tag line has to do with this. Are you are saying that every parent with a fatally-flawed fetus should bring the pregnancy to term? That no one should have a choice when faced with this sort of tragedy but to suffer through a pointless pregnancy and give birth to a child whose whole brief existence is spent struggling for a life that can't be sustained? Why? Because some people have religious beliefs that say that every pregnancy is sacred? Or that a woman's lot in the world is to mindlessly put forth children without regard for the quality of life they will have once they are born? To me, that seems more like having "no understanding of the serious...medical, legal(?), financial, moral and spiritual questions" that confront a person in these circumstances..
ReplyDeleteMy point is that "pro-choice" does not mean "must have an abortion when the fetus is diagnosed with severe abnormalities". This family made a choice. The quote from the video suggests they are OK with that choice. Just because it's posted on Brancy's blog does not mean they were bullied into that choice by the pro-life movement.
DeleteI feel it's offensive to describe their choice, and their process of grieving, as selfish and macarbe. It's also offensive to suggest their choice is somehow evidence of a lack of concern for their child.
Her body. Her choice. You can't force a woman to get an abortion. I don't agree with her choice, but again, it's not my body. I haven't walked in her shoes and I can't judge her.
ReplyDeleteUmm, the baby inside the woman has its own seperate skeletal, muscular, & nervous system, and is a living being.
ReplyDeleteSo no, the baby inside her body is not her choice to murder
You are not Prochoice. You belittle a family for choosing life, however short, for their child.
ReplyDeleteIn your view it is better to kill the child by tearing it limb from limb and crushing its skull. As opposed to letting it die in the loving arms of its parents.
So you are anti-life and anti-love. I get it.
Being pro choice includes choices we don't agree with. The choice this family made should be respected and they should not be judged for it, just like you would not want them to judge you for having an abortion. You are nothing but a hypocrite.
ReplyDeleteYes, I have a different perspective. I am staunchly pro-choice and I chose to carry my daughter to term with a diagnosis of anencephaly- probably the same disorder mentioned in the post. I am a physician, I knew there was no chance of her survival. My decision to carry my daughter was about loving her as a person and giving her the longest life possible. She lived for three incredible days and acted like a normal newborn until she died. We took several thousand pictures of her and had a professional from Now I Lay Me Down to Sleep present. We have many videos of her. Her photos are displayed around my home. I'm very proud of my daughter and show her off every chance I can. I look at her every day and think about her every day. It is neither macabre nor selfish. Like any mother, I love to look at pictures of my beautiful daughter!
ReplyDeleteMy daughter did not suffer. As she had only a brain stem, she was physiologically incapable of suffering. However, she was treated by a team of palliative care doctors and perinatal hospice to ensure that she was comfortable at all times. In fact, in her brief life, she was only put down for diaper changes and had her every whim catered to. I'm not justifying my actions to you, I am trying to educate you as you are clearly ignorant about pain and suffering and the numerous treatments that are available.
Until you have walked in my shoes, you have no right to judge me or anyone else who chooses to carry their children to term with a fatal diagnosis. Please kindly remove your opinion from my body.
You can read my daughter's story here:
www.denalihetzel.blogspot.com
You make me sick. Have you been through this before? Have you had to make this gut-wrenching choice? Then don't you dare write about it. Do you realize how destructive this post is to both women who carry AND who terminate? Do not pass judgment on what you don't know.
ReplyDeleteI can only imagine that this site is satirical in it's description about "having a positive impact on those you meet along your journey?" Is that a joke? Have you positively impacted the grieving mother and father you called out by name to cruelly insult? It does show the content of your character to name the baby girl they bore and loved and grieved and, and to hold her up as a target for inhumane and cruel vitriol. Is the joke supposed to be the irony in NOT having compassion and consideration for other people's lives and choices and heartbreak? Perinatal hospice, and babies with fatal congenital defects, and grieving parents, are not fodder for snarky blogs, and this woman and her husband did no harm to you or others. This cruel and targeted mocking of grief is about the vilest thing I've seen on the internet, and that's impressive, because the internet is so full of vile. Really, by name, you all publicly insult these people you don't know? And a tiny, helpless baby. By her name. Yes, definitely the coldest, vilest cruelty I've seen on a blog yet. And all for lack of anything more interesting to cross your path. The women I have met in perinatal hospice support groups are about the most compassionate women I have ever seen, compassionate of every woman's crisis and fears, whatever choice they ultimately make. My fellow mothers who, like me , chose to carry to term our babies with anencephaly, have all agreed with me that this experience of facing this diagnosis and having to choose what to do has only made us MORE compassionate to those who choose differently, despite the fact that we see things differently. Every baby is grieved, and every woman deserves compassion. Naming this family in order to cruelly vilify them is beyond unethical, and I am going in search of something positive to read somewhere to try to erase the disappointing examples of human beings I have seen here.
ReplyDeletePerhaps you missed my story in the ADN by Julia O'Malley:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.adn.com/2013/11/02/3154766/julia-omalley-when-birth-means.html
you are all hard hearted. i had a baby in 2012 that we found out had anencephaly (not compatible with life diagnosis). we found out(my husband and i) when we were 20 weeks along. i carried our daughter to term, praying for a miracle the entire time. my daughter Danni was born full term. she was very much loved and she lived for 78 hours. she did not suffer during that time. she watched us, and she ate(alot) , she had dirty diapers, and for the most part she behaved like a normal newborn.im not saying im anti abortion, im not saying im pro life. i guess im pro choice. unless you have walked a mile in my shoes you have no right to judge me and if you do well you still have no leg to stand on. only i know what i did was worth the heartbreak and love....
ReplyDeleteGood for you Hillary. I too, had a baby with anencephaly and she lived for 3.5 hours. God decided when she was to die.
DeleteNobody should judge anybody until they are put in that position. I can say I would do this and that but when it comes down to being in that situation you have no idea what goes through your mind and what your decision would be. Thats why were individuals and have our own rights to choose what we want to do.
ReplyDeleteGod is the only person who has the right to terminate a life. It is so stupid to think that a baby can be "ripped apart" inside a woman and feel "no pain". Idiots. I agree with carrying the baby to term. The few minutes the baby lived is for God to decide....not an idiot who lives on this earth.
ReplyDeleteAt my 18 week ultrasound, I found out my son had anencephaly. Possibly the same 'brain disorder' you talk about in this post. I carried my son to term and he lived two hours. He did not suffer. He felt my love and I felt his love. I recently had a dream about my son. He was a baby again but totally alive and perfect and I knew he would live 3 months. But everyone around my was digging a grave and getting ready to bury him. In my dream, they were going to bury him alive! I couldn't understand. I was like, "Why would I bury him alive if he isn't dead yet?!" That's what my pregnancy and birth was. He wasn't dead yet. Why would I kill him just because his life would be short? We're all going to die. So should we all just end it now? How long do we have to be alive before it's 'worth it'? It's easy to judge a situation harshly if you haven't been there. The longer I live and the more grief I experience, the bigger my compassion gets. I try to understand with love before I judge. My sister also had a baby with anencephaly and chose to terminate. I do not judge. I don't think her decision even registers on the sin-o-meter as I like to call it;) I'm not some zealot. Maybe the girl whose words you read was not a pro-life zealot either. Maybe you don't know her heart. The weird thing about life and the universe that I have seen time and time again is this: The one thing you judge harshly and say, "I would NEVER EVER do that"...is the same test the universe will give you. Maybe not identical. But the universe will give you a chance to grow compassion and understanding in any area we lack it. That goes for you and me and everyone. So be careful what tests you invite into your life. Much sincere love and blessings from my heart to yours...
ReplyDeleteignorance is bliss, eh?
ReplyDeleteWow. As if you know how this feels. I had twins, one with 100% fatal brain disorder, one completely healthy who is nearly 3 now. I was offered a selective termination, as my poorly twin could die in utero and so infect his brother to be severely brain damaged himself, but that could have ended up me losing both twins. Instead I carried on with the pregnancy, knowing full well the risks of it. They were born at 32+4, Harry screaming and Christopher lived for 37 minutes. SO IM SELFISH???? What is wrong with wanting to meet your baby? Oh wait, I'm sorry.. do you even have children, and if you do how the hell have you got the right, in fact in any case to judge a fellow human?
ReplyDeleteYou make me sick with your ignorance. God only knows I wish for that kind of blissful peace of mind you have. Living with the burden of losing a child is something I wouldn't wish on anyone and so very glad I chose to do what I did.
Selfish is ignorant people who think a baby deserves to die because they're not perfect.... I had a baby with anencephaly and my baby deserved as much life as I could give her, this is not pro life extremist, is called being a mother you heartless monster!! You don't think women who abort or terminate their babies relive it.... you lose a child through any means you will relive it, what's wrong with chosing a beautiful memory rather then a cruel abortion story... these babies are human beings!! They, or any other baby, should be an option!! What makes your life more valuable then a baby with a fatal diagnosis.... these babies are pure and beautiful, you are ugly inside, your a monster, as far asI can see, from reading your ignorant blog my daughters life was FAR more valuable then yours!!
ReplyDeleteWithout God, you have no claim of moral authority. How does one lump of molecules accuse another of immorality?
ReplyDeleteIt appears that some pro-choice people are only pro-choice when they agree with the decision that the parents make. I have empathy for them as I would not want to have been in their shoes and I respect their decision. I used to be all out pro-choice now I am very much pro-life, only after I changed my mind have I noticed how some pro-choice people are ONLY pro-choice when its convenient or when they agree with the choice of the parents. Why is it some pro-choice people never come to the aid of those who choose NOT to abort their child but are somehow being pressured or forced to do so? Why do never hear of pro-choice people sticking up for the teen daughters that WANT to keep their babies but parents are trying to force them to get an abortion? Why do we not ever hear of Pro-choice people sticking up for all the women in China who are FORCED to get abortions and THEY DON'T WANT ABORTIONS. It seems to me that the only time we hear from pro-choice people is when to its to stick up for the rights of someone who wants an abortion and NOT for someone who actually WANTS to keep their child.
ReplyDeleteWhat really gets me is the assertion that somehow an abortion would be more mericful and "painless". And the writer knows this how exactly? Perhaps he/she has personally been aborted and can attest from firsthand experience the painlessness of the procedure? Oh no, of course the only people who support abortion "rights", actually were afforded the privilege of being born alive themselves, so that can't be the case. So maybe the writer interviewed a whole bunch of aborted babies who all agreed that they preferred being slaughtered with surgical steel and vacuums, or scalded alive with saline by a stranger to dying naturally in their parents arms? Oh that's right, aborted babies never get a chance to speak for themselves. My bad.
ReplyDeleteimportant not here to yell and scream but my wife is at 34 weeks right now with gretchen. she has anencephaly and spina bifida. we originally leaned towards induction but im glad now with going full term. i will hold my only child after birth and always love her. anencephaly can happen in any pregnancy. i hope none of you ever have to feel its pain. making funeral arrangements when your wife is 6 and 7 months along. for me its not in gods hands. he's a bastard for allowing it to happen...
ReplyDeleteBased on what evidence did you conclude that the baby suffered?
ReplyDeleteAnd please clarify -- do you consider yourself pro-choice or pro-abortion?
I am the Father of three Autistic Children. I say God bless these people who gave this child a chance at 10 hours of life and love with them.
ReplyDeleteThis post reveals at the heart of the so called "pro-choice" movement is something dark and unclean.
If there is no God then who are you to deny this child their one brief shot at existence and life even if it was for a mere Ten hours?
You would take that from them? Selfish doesn't begin to describe such foulness.
If there is a God (& I believe there is) then may He forgive you.
It's always so cute to see the truth behind the pro-"choice" lie. Yes, it would have been much less "selfish" that have the baby (oops, I mean, worthless clump of flesh) torn apart limb from limb. Because 2nd and 3rd trimester abortions are like, sooooo easy and not at all brutal and gruesome!
ReplyDeletePro-choice! As long as that choice is abortion!
Look up how abortion is performed at 20 weeks. The mother should have allowed them to treat her living, yes living, 20 week old as medical waste? You're the extremist.
ReplyDelete