Earlier this week, a fan of ours shared a link to some disturbing photos and videos that were shared publicly by a counselor from a Memphis area church camp with the title “God is so good…” and comments like, “Awesome and so beautiful…” I should mention, the fan who sent us the links is friends with one of the parents involved. In short, they were completely horrified by what the friend’s child had experienced.
Because the photos and video were posted on Facebook publicly, without any privacy settings, for the world to see – we shared the direct links to the content with our Facebook fans with the simple question, “CHILD COERCION OR…?” (I should also quickly note that in order for the kids to attend the camp, their parents had to sign a photo/video release waiver so the camp could share the content online for marketing purposes.) It was certainly not the “normal” sort of post for our page (illustrations of lesser-known Bible verses), so I wasn’t sure how it would be received by our viewers.
In short, our viewers went nuts about what they perceived to be significant emotional abuse of minors. The post went viral with hundreds of comments and hundreds of shares within just a few minutes. Suddenly, I felt bad for “Nita” – the original poster. Here she was, just sharing a some photos of videos of their normal every day church camp for other counselors and parents to share with family and friends, and… WHOOSH!
Here is the video that this post is referring to. (Sadly I cannot seem to embed it, but it plays just fine on the Liveleak page.)
Yeah, I bet that woke you up this morning!
And they're right, the backlash came hard and fast, and this group, which is really all about promoting their cute little illustrated bibles, found themselves under attack and those involved making some rather pathetic excuses for their actions.
However there were some connected to the camp who were more than a little troubled.
"My daughter was at camp when the pictures were taken last week. I am a Christian and raised Baptist. Never once did I EVER witness the likes of this! Pictures of my daughter were also posted on the woman’s page. Pictures of her crying and in very apparent emotional distress. When asked about the pictures of her, her response was that she was TOLD to pray with the other children, so she did. I asked why she was crying and she responded with, “Other kids were crying, it made me cry too.” So, please explain to be how children who are ENCOURAGED TO COPY what they are seeing other adults and children do without rhyme or reason or instruction is healthy? You cant. And when it ISN’T healthy, it becomes a form of abuse. Period. Emotional abuse has occurred that could scar these children for life."
Yeah no shit!
Look I of course have many negative feelings about religion and children, and religious indoctrination of children, but I myself attended a Bible camp as a child and was NEVER subjected to anything even remotely similar to this.
Which is good because if you think I am anti-religious now......
Brainwashing children. It makes me nauseous. Substitute another religion like Scientology or Islam, and I bet those "good" xtians would be horrified. Atheist, and happy.
ReplyDeleteI swear these people have no idea how they are seen outside their own group. Most don't care I suppose.
ReplyDeleteA few years ago my niece spent a week at an overnight christian summer camp (her babysitter was on vacation.) She came back shaken and said that the kids were encouraged to speak in tongues. An atheist was born that day. Her mother thought they would just be making macaroni crosses, drinking too much sugary punch, eating toasted cheese sandwiches and hiking in the woods.
These people are serious and want those kids early and passionately.
Things have definitely changed since the 70's when I was a kid. There was some church meeting type stuff but it was mostly harmless activities just like the ones you described. These groups have gone crazy-extreme in their beliefs and practices.
DeleteM from MD
I went to Baptist church camps. There was always crying, from the emotional intensity whipped up around giving yourself to Jesus (one more time). I did not feel abused, and I don't look back on it as abuse; but I would not want my child or grandchild to be around that sort of thing.
ReplyDeleteIf anyone took your child or grandchild and emotionally abused them to the point they were crying you wouldn't consider it abuse? Please quit reproducing.
DeleteI play in an instrumental group that sometimes plays for churches. At a Michigan Prsbyterian Church thus June, the female pastor told her flock that they had to bring the kids to His before they are 18, or the church will die. So they brainwash them, cajole them, bribe them with treats, or threaten them. Some loving religion.
ReplyDeleteI saw much of the same thing in the 1970's when my uncle had the family attending Full Gospel Fellowship meetings.
ReplyDeleteWe teens would be off to the side, and the rest of the people essentially pretended to lose their minds. If the pastor or elder came to you and pressed into your forehead - you were expected to fall backward, much like you see in the many videos out there of this type of thing. I was told by my aunt in a stone-cold voice early on that *I WOULD* do what was expected of me - if the pastor came over to me, I WOULD ACT MY LITTLE HEART OUT. She was NOT about to become embarrassed by me! Thank God, they never came to me and pressed my forehead, but yes - I had to pretend to "speak in tongues" when the entire room was doing it. We teens would try to out-do each other, see who could be more gibberishly idiotic than everyone else...
Its easy to see this is brain-washing / peer-group pressure, particularly if the kids have been sleep deprived or not given a meal in a while. Its much easier to get sleep / food deprived kids to 'act up'.
The only reason their parents got upset by the video being made public is that THEY fell under condemnation. It wasn't because of concern for or to protect their own kids!
The parents KNOW what goes on in those bible-beating camps - that's why they send their kids there.
Strangely, the parents have caved-in to the same public peer-pressure they expected their own kids to tolerate within that camp. Imagine what would have happened at that camp to a child that said "NO - I'm not gonna do it...".
My take on this. The counselor should not have posted this video on her facebook, because she didn't ask the parents' permission, and because she put her church camp in jeopardy of being accused of abuse.
ReplyDeleteThe parents shouldn't have sent their kids to this church camp without getting all the facts known about how they pray at the altar and how the kids might be put into this situation.
The camp church would have to explain to others what this type of children's service was about, to give the whole persepective, and not just a 2 minute video, without getting the whole gyst of the thing. There probably was a children's bible teaching, and this segment may have been an altar call, where the kids were asking God to guide them and be the Lord of their life. (Religious freedoms are still in effect, right?) The argument that they are minors is concerning, in that, without their parents there, they may have not expected this kind of experience for their child.
When Billy Graham had thousands do their "altar call", the cameras didn't pan in on the people but am sure that when people knelt and were praying, it brought weeping of joy, at being forgiven of all.
I agree here though, that these are kids and vulnerable and should have their parents explain everything before doing this at the behest of possibly cultish-like counselors.
Not all fundamentalists are cultish. They obey the laws and care about the freedoms of others and don't push their agenda with total abandon.
One more point. If an eastern meditation guru is having 'services' (whatever they are called), and the followers are jumping up and down and dancing and making funny noises, and bring their kids to participate in this form of worship, wouldn't this be the same thing? I guess the only difference between those types of zealous practices and the video above is that the gurus had the sense not to videotape it.
No its not the same thing at all. The Eastern Guru's do not intimidate, coerce, humiliate, or otherwise force the children into performing any kind of spiritual acts. The children are not ostracized from others, or refused sleep, food, water, privileges if they don't act in a certain way. These bible camps are nothing but religious cults indoctrination centers.
DeleteIt's no different from the deeply Christian man who was business associate's of my fathers' who was SO concerned for my spiritual well being that at the age of 8 he gave me a "Christian comic" book that was full of the tortures of hell- what was waiting for me if I didn't accept Jesus into my soul. The one picture that really set into my 8 year old mind was the one of the man naked, astraddle a giant razor blade. Complete with blood and anguish. Nice comic, huh?
Its all about fear and control. Fear and control.
"My take on this. The counselor should not have posted this video on her facebook, because she didn't ask the parents' permission, and because she put her church camp in jeopardy of being accused of abuse."
DeleteDid you not see THIS in the above article? "(I should also quickly note that in order for the kids to attend the camp, their parents had to sign a photo/video release waiver so the camp could share the content online for marketing purposes.)...."
Kind of puts a different perspective on your first paragraph, doesn't it?
I got the whole "gist" of this in one look. Children so distressed that they are crying and an adult thinking it is okay. Kind of like you are making excuses for this abuse of these children.
DeleteBTW Your attempt at slamming another religion by calling it Eastern is a total fail. Christianity is an Eastern religion nutcase.
Delete"If an eastern meditation guru is having 'services' (whatever they are called), and the followers are jumping up and down and dancing and making funny noises, and bring their kids to participate in this form of worship, wouldn't this be the same thing?"
DeleteThere are so many flaws in this question, from the viewpoint of someone with experience in one of those "eastern" spiritual paths (Buddhism):
--It is not "worship." (There is no monotheistic god.)
--Meditation accesses and develops one's own innate wisdom.
--Anyone, including, children, participates voluntarily. Activities for children would be child appropriate and light and joyful.
--No one, child or adult, would ever be encouraged to cry and no one would celebrate the distress of others.
--EVERYTHING is to be tested using one's own critical faculties.
Speaking of things getting out of control...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/07/20/michigan-woman-shoots-lover-because-he-didnt-produce-enough-ejclte-during-sex/
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/07/21/cut-off-in-traffic-83-year-old-florida-man-goes-on-gun-rampage-until-stopped-by-a-drawbridge/
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/07/21/girl-killed-by-stray-bullet-at-sleepover-among-four-dead-in-violent-chicago-weekend/
And it's being brought right into our public schools.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.goodnewsclubs.info/
From the website of the Child Evangelism Fellowship:
"What is a Good News Club?
Currently over 3,400 weekly school-related Good News Clubs are held across the nation, reaching more than 119,000 students each week. Whether meeting off campus during school hours or on campus after school, these clubs provide opportunity for children in the public schools to hear the Gospel and learn truth from God’s Word."
So much for separation of church and state, promoting ones religion on the public dime. The ironic part for me is that most of these fundamentalist don't send their children to public schools, but they want to decide what is taught there. Brainwashing other peoples kids they are.
DeleteCan someone that belongs to christianity please explain why seeing children cry when asked to pray would be a good thing?
ReplyDeleteThis question is not snark at all. I would really just like to know what basis in this religion considers it a good thing to see children in distress like this. Obviously it was okay with many in the group since people were thanking this woman for causing these children to cry, so I guess I am at a loss to even try and understand why parents would send their children to a camp to be abused.
I wish they could explain to me how worshiping another human being makes sense. Or better yet how believing an ancient book wrote by peoples who thought the earth was flat makes sense. I guess it doesn't have to be logical if you are willing to elevate yourself above all others, believing that you will be saved while all else will be lost...
DeleteIt's not easy to watch, but the movie Jesus Camp (available for streaming on Netflix) is an extremely good documentary on the use of children to forward extreme right-wing politics.
ReplyDeleteI can't bear to watch this level of "awesomeness" presumed "Adults" are using to get innocent, easily groomed and manipulated kids "Addicted to the presence of Jesus Christ". To me it's child abuse. Those children are beyond terrified, and instead of being consoled, they're encouraged to keep screaming and crying.
ReplyDeleteThis world needs more "Nita"s in it, exposing it for what it is.