Morality is not determined by the church you attend nor the faith you embrace. It is determined by the quality of your character and the positive impact you have on those you meet along your journey
Sunday, July 06, 2014
Let's try this again.
Okay does this explain the atheist position clearly enough?
Not a religion.
Not a philosophy.
Just a group of people who do not feel the need to accept superstitious explanations for things simply because it comforts them.
ITA with the burden of proof statement. That's why I'm not a believer in a judgmental supreme being. I think religion in general is bullshit. It's just an excuse to control people, especially women.
That doesn't stop me from wondering about the overall scheme of things, though.
Atheistic societies can also be very brutal, so I don't necessarily regard Atheists as benevolent, either.
Bottom line, I don't really care what you believe as long as you stay outta my (and everyone else's) face about it. Unfortunately, human nature generally seems to abhor a religious vacuum.
There are no "atheistic societies". Atheism is simply the lack of belief in god or gods. I agree that the religious people simply cannot keep their beliefs to themselves.
5:43, Atheism was the state-imposed "belief system" (or non-belief system) of the USSR, for one. It actively persecuted Christians and Jews for their religious beliefs.
5:59 am, except that there were actually churches and synagogues in Russia at the time. Christians have been persecuting Jews for 2,000 years, even in the USA. Your point?
My point is that atheists are every bit as capable as being brutal and forcing their atheistic system on non-atheists. It is an established, historical fact, and the fact that religion-based societies ALSO forcibly impose their system on non-participants does not give atheistic systems a pass. I get that you are trying to evade that ugly reality, but it IS a reality. The presence of churches in the USSR doesn't change the historical reality either -- the Soviet regime was officially atheistic, and it persecuted Christians and Jews.
You're forgetting that the USSR wasn't "atheistic"; they didn't want religion openly practiced because religions tend to evolve leaders for the sheeple to follow, and the leadership of the USSR didn't want the competition.
In the Bill Nye - Ken Ham debates, Bill Nye was asked what would make him change his mind about religion. His reply was "proof". Ken Ham was asked what would make him change his mind about religion. His reply was "nothing". That interchange was indicative of the thinking of religious vs. non-religious people.
OT: Gryph,if you haven't already, may I suggest you visit journalstar.com and check out the 12-year-old accidental shooting plus the Obama float in the Norfolk 4th of July parade......
You don't get it; you're free to believe any crazy thing you want. Christians believe a deity created the people to be flawed, then sent a copy of himself down as a human to be murdered to atone for the flaws to save humanity from himself. The rest of us simply don't want to be held hostage to whatever wacky and vicious thing you dream up for yourself.
Sorry, but you entirely missed the premise of the statement. It wasn't concerning FAITH. It was the proposition that god EXISTS. It is THAT which is the crux of it.
A personal faith DOESN'T require proof. You are quite correct. But you are comparing apples and oranges with your posting. The writer is asking those who believe in a god to PROVE one exists. Otherwise you are back to square one and are using the religious writings to "prove" that existence.
You may believe the Bible was written by god, but using the bible as PROOF of that is totally ridiculous. Like a dog chasing it's tail, it goes nowhere.
But that doesn't give anyone the right to foist their beliefs on others, as Hobby Lobby has done.
Your beliefs should not dictate what everyone must do. That is why we have a separation of church and state. Or we're supposed to.
Even our founding fathers did NOT want this government run by only one faith. It may not be in the Constitution but there are MANY supporting documents and letters of the time discussing exactly that.
Nice idea, but doesn't that require EVERYONE to agree about the definition of "proof"? Fundamentalists seem to disagree with what proof is compared to the scientific definition.
Atlanta biology teacher: Evolution from Satan and the cause of racism, divorce, gay people
Students in a freshman biology class in Atlanta’s Grady High School were shown a PowerPoint presentation that linked evolution to Satan, abortion, divorce, racism, and homosexuality.
The Grady High student newspaper, the Southerner, reported that Anquinette Jones used the PowerPoint presentation to teach the theory of evolution to her students during a freshman biology class last spring.
One slide in the 52-slide presentation included an illustration that shows creationism and evolution as two sides in a war between good and evil. Creationism is shown to be from Christ, while evolution is from Satan. The illustration suggests evolution is the driving force behind euthanasia, homosexuality, pornography, abortion, divorce, and racism — social ills that are all defeated by creationism and Christianity.
Why would the burden of proof lie with religion? Would you take their word for it? Once again you empower religion as being the only valid alternative to believing in nothing. Again you're just as arrogant as they are, and show that your "belief" is just a reaction against theirs, equally baseless.
I say I don't know if there is a god or not, (because as the history of science teaches us, just because something hasn't been discovered or isn't understood yet doesn't mean it doesn't exist) but I also say I do not for one minute believe that if there IS some sort of being/force/concept that put the big bang into motion, that there is ANY human agency who knows who or what it is.
The idea that the "debate" is between nothing or Christ with no other possibilities just makes you look like a myopic chimpanzee.
So who is more arrogant and egotistical? The person who claims they know god or the person who claims they know god doesn't exist? I stand with science. When it proves or disproves, I will be content to agree. Until then, I wait.
Now do you see why you sound like an evangelical when you say idiotic things like "so, are you agnostic about zeus?" It's not about zeus, man it's about science. Grow up. ;P
Wow, Boscoe, reality went flying over your head, didn't it? Religion makes a claim: that there is a deity that created everything. Science isn't the one making the claim. Science would embrace this if there was any proof. Religion can't provide proof; it just provides people like you throwing tantrums. And actually, the Zeus question is a perfectly valid one, because the people who throw the biggest tantrums are the ones who insist non-Christian deities don't exist; just the Christian God. So, Boscoe, tell us, why aren't you down on your knees appeasing Zeus right now? You're really pissing him off and he's going to torture you through eternity after you die. For that matter, why aren't you making offerings to Kali and Haumea and The Great Spirit and all the rest? If your Christian deity is perfectly valid, then so must all the others be!
I don't give two shits what a person believes, however your belief should be a personal matter not to be pushed upon others that do not share your convictions. Also, it should not guarantee your house of worship a tax-free status, and should not be allowed to enter into any aspect of our educational system.
If you end up down my driveway at my door spouting your nonsense I have a cute little pit bull that just loves to share his philosophical doctrine with those who have ignored both our "No Soliciting", "No Trespassing", and lastly "Beware of Dog" signs.
I have never understood why...creationist's mantra to those of us that believe in the theory of evolution demand proof! Where's the missing link? Show me the evidence? Where's the proof? But if you double back on them, and ask them for proof of creationism, God and Jesus being resurrected from the dead, etc.,...all they spout is the same exact line: "I have faith." Faith. that's their answer. Faith. Well, you know what? I have faith in evolution! There is no evidence. Nothing. Nada of life after death. There is no evidence of a heaven, of life after death, God, etc. nothing - but they have 'faith' and that's apparently all 'they' need. They (creationists) try to point to people who have had near-death experiences..and say that's all they need. Well you know what? Near-death experiences have been recreated in hospital rooms, laboratories, etc. for years and years...the near-death experience and the supposed life after has been recreated. It's the brain's evolutionary reaction to dying. It's the way the brain shuts down knowing that death is near, inevitable. Can people be resuscitated? Oh, absolutely. Does that prove life after death? Oh absolutely not! Look no one wants to die. It's a human characteristic to be able to 'live forever; and to be able to reunited with wonderful old Aunt Tillie, and Grandma Shirley....and don't forget good old dog Joe. But it's not going to happen. Hey, live today like it's all yuu are ever going to have, because..it' is!!
ITA with the burden of proof statement. That's why I'm not a believer in a judgmental supreme being. I think religion in general is bullshit. It's just an excuse to control people, especially women.
ReplyDeleteThat doesn't stop me from wondering about the overall scheme of things, though.
Atheistic societies can also be very brutal, so I don't necessarily regard Atheists as benevolent, either.
Bottom line, I don't really care what you believe as long as you stay outta my (and everyone else's) face about it. Unfortunately, human nature generally seems to abhor a religious vacuum.
There are no "atheistic societies". Atheism is simply the lack of belief in god or gods. I agree that the religious people simply cannot keep their beliefs to themselves.
Delete5:43, Atheism was the state-imposed "belief system" (or non-belief system) of the USSR, for one. It actively persecuted Christians and Jews for their religious beliefs.
Delete5:59 am, except that there were actually churches and synagogues in Russia at the time. Christians have been persecuting Jews for 2,000 years, even in the USA. Your point?
DeleteMy point is that atheists are every bit as capable as being brutal and forcing their atheistic system on non-atheists. It is an established, historical fact, and the fact that religion-based societies ALSO forcibly impose their system on non-participants does not give atheistic systems a pass. I get that you are trying to evade that ugly reality, but it IS a reality. The presence of churches in the USSR doesn't change the historical reality either -- the Soviet regime was officially atheistic, and it persecuted Christians and Jews.
Delete5:27A
You're forgetting that the USSR wasn't "atheistic"; they didn't want religion openly practiced because religions tend to evolve leaders for the sheeple to follow, and the leadership of the USSR didn't want the competition.
DeleteIn the Bill Nye - Ken Ham debates, Bill Nye was asked what would make him change his mind about religion. His reply was "proof". Ken Ham was asked what would make him change his mind about religion. His reply was "nothing". That interchange was indicative of the thinking of religious vs. non-religious people.
ReplyDeleteOT: Gryph,if you haven't already, may I suggest you visit journalstar.com and check out the 12-year-old accidental shooting plus the Obama float in the Norfolk 4th of July parade......
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure which is more offensive; the float or the people defending it.
DeleteSimply put faith by its very definition requires no proof! You don't get it.
ReplyDeleteYou don't get it; you're free to believe any crazy thing you want. Christians believe a deity created the people to be flawed, then sent a copy of himself down as a human to be murdered to atone for the flaws to save humanity from himself. The rest of us simply don't want to be held hostage to whatever wacky and vicious thing you dream up for yourself.
Delete@ 6:30
DeleteSorry, but you entirely missed the premise of the statement. It wasn't concerning FAITH. It was the proposition that god EXISTS. It is THAT which is the crux of it.
A personal faith DOESN'T require proof. You are quite correct. But you are comparing apples and oranges with your posting. The writer is asking those who believe in a god to PROVE one exists. Otherwise you are back to square one and are using the religious writings to "prove" that existence.
You may believe the Bible was written by god, but using the bible as PROOF of that is totally ridiculous. Like a dog chasing it's tail, it goes nowhere.
Fine. Believe what you want.
DeleteBut that doesn't give anyone the right to foist their beliefs on others, as Hobby Lobby has done.
Your beliefs should not dictate what everyone must do. That is why we have a separation of church and state. Or we're supposed to.
Even our founding fathers did NOT want this government run by only one faith. It may not be in the Constitution but there are MANY supporting documents and letters of the time discussing exactly that.
perhaps proof should be required before one goes out and committs atrocities in the name of something.
ReplyDeleteNice idea, but doesn't that require EVERYONE to agree about the definition of "proof"? Fundamentalists seem to disagree with what proof is compared to the scientific definition.
DeleteAtlanta biology teacher: Evolution from Satan and the cause of racism, divorce, gay people
ReplyDeleteStudents in a freshman biology class in Atlanta’s Grady High School were shown a PowerPoint presentation that linked evolution to Satan, abortion, divorce, racism, and homosexuality.
The Grady High student newspaper, the Southerner, reported that Anquinette Jones used the PowerPoint presentation to teach the theory of evolution to her students during a freshman biology class last spring.
One slide in the 52-slide presentation included an illustration that shows creationism and evolution as two sides in a war between good and evil. Creationism is shown to be from Christ, while evolution is from Satan. The illustration suggests evolution is the driving force behind euthanasia, homosexuality, pornography, abortion, divorce, and racism — social ills that are all defeated by creationism and Christianity.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/07/05/atlanta-biology-teacher-evolution-from-satan-and-the-cause-of-racism-divorce-gay-people/
Isn't this what the Xians wanted?
DeleteGeorgia. Be careful what you wish for.
Why would the burden of proof lie with religion? Would you take their word for it? Once again you empower religion as being the only valid alternative to believing in nothing. Again you're just as arrogant as they are, and show that your "belief" is just a reaction against theirs, equally baseless.
ReplyDeleteI say I don't know if there is a god or not, (because as the history of science teaches us, just because something hasn't been discovered or isn't understood yet doesn't mean it doesn't exist) but I also say I do not for one minute believe that if there IS some sort of being/force/concept that put the big bang into motion, that there is ANY human agency who knows who or what it is.
The idea that the "debate" is between nothing or Christ with no other possibilities just makes you look like a myopic chimpanzee.
So who is more arrogant and egotistical? The person who claims they know god or the person who claims they know god doesn't exist? I stand with science. When it proves or disproves, I will be content to agree. Until then, I wait.
Now do you see why you sound like an evangelical when you say idiotic things like "so, are you agnostic about zeus?" It's not about zeus, man it's about science. Grow up. ;P
Wow, Boscoe, reality went flying over your head, didn't it? Religion makes a claim: that there is a deity that created everything. Science isn't the one making the claim. Science would embrace this if there was any proof. Religion can't provide proof; it just provides people like you throwing tantrums. And actually, the Zeus question is a perfectly valid one, because the people who throw the biggest tantrums are the ones who insist non-Christian deities don't exist; just the Christian God. So, Boscoe, tell us, why aren't you down on your knees appeasing Zeus right now? You're really pissing him off and he's going to torture you through eternity after you die. For that matter, why aren't you making offerings to Kali and Haumea and The Great Spirit and all the rest? If your Christian deity is perfectly valid, then so must all the others be!
DeleteI don't give two shits what a person believes, however your belief should be a personal matter not to be pushed upon others that do not share your convictions. Also, it should not guarantee your house of worship a tax-free status, and should not be allowed to enter into any aspect of our educational system.
ReplyDeleteIf you end up down my driveway at my door spouting your nonsense I have a cute little pit bull that just loves to share his philosophical doctrine with those who have ignored both our "No Soliciting", "No Trespassing", and lastly "Beware of Dog" signs.
I have never understood why...creationist's mantra to those of us that believe in the theory of evolution demand proof! Where's the missing link? Show me the evidence? Where's the proof? But if you double back on them, and ask them for proof of creationism, God and Jesus being resurrected from the dead, etc.,...all they spout is the same exact line: "I have faith." Faith. that's their answer. Faith.
ReplyDeleteWell, you know what? I have faith in evolution! There is no evidence. Nothing. Nada of life after death. There is no evidence of a heaven, of life after death, God, etc. nothing - but they have 'faith' and that's apparently all 'they' need.
They (creationists) try to point to people who have had near-death experiences..and say that's all they need. Well you know what? Near-death experiences have been recreated in hospital rooms, laboratories, etc. for years and years...the near-death experience and the supposed life after has been recreated. It's the brain's evolutionary reaction to dying. It's the way the brain shuts down knowing that death is near, inevitable. Can people be resuscitated? Oh, absolutely. Does that prove life after death? Oh absolutely not!
Look no one wants to die. It's a human characteristic to be able to 'live forever; and to be able to reunited with wonderful old Aunt Tillie, and Grandma Shirley....and don't forget good old dog Joe.
But it's not going to happen. Hey, live today like it's all yuu are ever going to have, because..it' is!!