Courtesy of CNN:
Republican Sen. John McCain broke with members of his party Tuesday, lauding the release of the Senate Intelligence Committee's report on torture and decrying the use of torture as having "stained our national honor" and doing "much harm and little practical good."
McCain, a survivor of torture himself from his Naval service during the Vietnam War, said from the Senate floor that the techniques outlined in the report "not only failed their purpose — to secure actionable intelligence to prevent further attacks on the U.S. and our allies — but actually damaged our security interests, as well as our reputation as a force for good in the world."
McCain said that while "the truth is a hard pill to swallow...the American people are entitled to it." And he acknowledged that violence against the U.S. from the "Muslim world" is "possible..perhaps likely," but argued that America's enemies "hardly need an excuse" to attack the nation, so the good done by the release of the report should trump any security concerns.
"This report strengthens self-government and, ultimately, I believe, America's security and stature in the world," he said.
You know it has been a long time coming, but finally there is something good to report about Senator John McCain.
I have long said, and I still believe, that much of McCain's legacy was wiped out after he snatched Sarah Palin from the wilds of Wasilla, hosed her off, and plopped her on the national stage.
However at least in this case McCain has partially redeemed himself.
And it is particularly striking considering how many other politicians and Right Wing pundits are reacting to this report.
Of course the next question is what do we do next?
For the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, Zeid Ra’ad Al Hussein, the answer is obvious:
“In all countries, if someone commits murder, they are prosecuted and jailed. If they commit rape or armed robbery, they are prosecuted and jailed. If they order, enable or commit torture – recognized as a serious international crime – they cannot simply be granted impunity because of political expediency. When that happens, we undermine this exceptional Convention, and – as a number of U.S. political leaders clearly acknowledged yesterday – we undermine our own claims to be civilized societies rooted in the rule of law.”
Unfortunately I do not believe that is going to happen here, especially with the Republicans about to take back the Senate.
So what other option do we have?
Well Anthony Romero of the American Civil Liberties Union has a novel idea.
Pardon the torturers:
The Obama administration could still take measures to hold accountable the officials who authorized torture. Some of the statutes of limitations have run out, but not all of them have. And the release of the Senate’s report provides a blueprint for criminal investigations, even if that’s not what the intelligence committee set out to do.
But let’s face it: Mr. (President) Obama is not inclined to pursue prosecutions — no matter how great the outrage, at home or abroad, over the disclosures — because of the political fallout. He should therefore take ownership of this decision. He should acknowledge that the country’s most senior officials authorized conduct that violated fundamental laws, and compromised our standing in the world as well as our security. If the choice is between a tacit pardon and a formal one, a formal one is better. An explicit pardon would lay down a marker, signaling to those considering torture in the future that they could be prosecuted.
Mr. (President) Obama could pardon George J. Tenet for authorizing torture at the C.I.A.’s black sites overseas, Donald H. Rumsfeld for authorizing the use of torture at the Guantánamo Bay prison, David S. Addington, John C. Yoo and Jay S. Bybee for crafting the legal cover for torture, and George W. Bush and Dick Cheney for overseeing it all.
While the idea of a pre-emptive pardon may seem novel, there is precedent. Presidents Abraham Lincoln and Andrew Johnson pardoned Confederate soldiers as a step toward unity and reconstruction after the Civil War. Gerald R. Ford pardoned Richard M. Nixon for the crimes of Watergate. Jimmy Carter pardoned Vietnam War draft resisters.
The spectacle of the president’s granting pardons to torturers still makes my stomach turn. But doing so may be the only way to ensure that the American government never tortures again. Pardons would make clear that crimes were committed; that the individuals who authorized and committed torture were indeed criminals; and that future architects and perpetrators of torture should beware. Prosecutions would be preferable, but pardons may be the only viable and lasting way to close the Pandora’s box of torture once and for all.
This is something that I admit would never have occurred to me, but it would be quite the spectacle don't you think?
Could you imagine the outrage that would come from the conservatives over this?
Fox News broadcasts would consist simply of one long primal scream.
What do you think?
Senator McCain, who perhaps his party thought they'd put on the shelf, was its Presidential candidate, and has the ultimate authority as the victim of torture.
ReplyDeleteHe's not a person who shuts up when he feels moral outrage.
There may be some other Republicans who will have the courage to join McCain.
And that will be the beginning of the GOP civil war.
Andrew Sullivan has been reporting on the numbers of Americans who believe that torture is sometimes or always acceptable. The numbers are not a majority, but they are disturbing.
This cannot become the story of the week, but must continue to haunt our dialogue until there is a resolution.
McCain has selective moral outrage.
DeleteA primary symptom of Conservative Brain Orientation is "the ends justify the means" syndrome. As much as they pound their chests over their purported love of the Constitution, they have no problem turning on a dime if it will expedite some desired result.
DeleteSelective patriotism.
To this day McCain continues to "torture" the American people with his vice-presidential candidate, Sarah Palin. When he publicly states that he made a huge blunder by putting her on the 2008 ticket, then I might be willing to listen to him on another subject. Waiting, John McCain . . . .
DeleteBeaglemom
When the hot shot bomber crashed his plane and got picked up in Vietnam he was delayed in Hanoi. I doubt he liked his accommodations. I am not impressed with this traitor. Although I agree with some of his opinions. This speech does not redeem him at all.
ReplyDeleteHe has done more harm than good. He has earned more lock up and jail time. He can give impassioned speeches from a cell.
12:08 here -- My post was not meant to glorify McCain.
DeleteI think he's a liar and a cheat, and shouldn't be in the Senate, much less have been a Presidential candidate.
But most people don't know all that much about McCain, and will take his opposition to torture on its face. And, for them, he provides a way for them to support him and, thus, come out against torture.
I get a kick out of how these assholes in the U.S. Congress make speeches and the room is totally empty of other congressmen.
DeleteThe only ones that might hear them are the tourists that are in the upper seats/balconies. I've been there and actually seen this to be a proven fact!
How soon can we impeach some in Congress and Senate?
DeleteAnd John's good friend and running mate, Sarah Palin said this:
ReplyDelete"Well, if I were in charge, they would know that waterboarding is how we baptize terrorists."
Sorry, Johnny Mac, but you've a long way to go if you're going to come close to redeeming yourself.
My sentiments.
DeleteThat statement by Palin needs to go under a McCain heading and spread throughout the country. He picked her and she is one nasty bitch!
DeleteNo pardon. Caveats are forgotten quite quickly and the torture defenders are counting on that to wipe away their stains. No pardons. Let them live under a cloud of infamy. Clean out the CIA and declare an annual day of mourning ... Dick Cheney's birthday seems appropriate .... for the better angels of our nation's nature.
ReplyDeleteI think Anthony Romero's suggestion is an excellent one, at first read. It will be interesting to see where the national discussion takes this suggestion.
ReplyDeleteThank you, Gryph, for providing us with a larger picture of the discussion happening on this topic.
I agree.
DeleteSheesh
McCain said that while "the truth is a hard pill to swallow...the American people are entitled to it."
ReplyDeleteWouldn't it be nice if he actually meant that and applied it to other areas of his activities.
McCain is not partially redeemable unless Sarah Palin was partially pregnant. A little bit pregnant, a little bit redeemable. John McCain needs total purging and coming clean about everything and pay up for all his crimes (even the so-called accidents that were covered up). Sincere apologies before he could possibly be near maybe being redeemed. He has a long, long way to go before redemption.
McCain is obviously lying and it makes his speech void. He is still a liar and a crook.
Deletetruth..... the American people are entitled to it.... McCain does not believe that or he would give it where he can.
Anyone that comes out against torture is okay by me. There is no reason to torture anyone. Obama is right, it is not who we are. Or it is not who we ought to be.
ReplyDeleteShame on anyone who thinks torture is acceptable; it is not. My only regret is there does not seem to be the will to prosecute those who did the actual torturing and those who ordered the torture.
Japanese were prosecuted after WWII by the Americans for doing the same basic thing as we recently did. The so-called Chinese water torture is the same as water-boarding.
I am waiting for the reaction to the report from some of my more tea partyish acquaintances. Its almost as if they have their fingers in their ears screaming lalalala. I have to think that they are waiting for it all to be spun out by the talking assholes before they say or post anything.
ReplyDeleteI have no regard or respect for John McCain even with the current speech! He was tortured and I'd like to know what he actually told them when he succumbed to the enemy!
ReplyDeleteHe is a despicable man for so, so many reasons! Personal issues as well as political. Plus, he picked Sarah Palin as his running mate and I say thank you every day that the two of them lost to President Obama and VP Joe Biden by a large margin!
John McCain is from AZ and if you look at the state government there and their representatives, you'd see why they have the asshole McCain in Congress! He needs to be voted out of office next time he runs again due to being inept, a racist and a sorry spot in America's history!
If America is too weak to deal with their own miscreants why not outsource the traitors and criminals to another court and legal system in another country? I am sure there are prisons more suitable for the likes of Bush/Cheney than what they would have here.
ReplyDeleteOne suggestion is North Korea. They might be more appropriate for giving our traitors and torturers the right justice.
I don't agree with pardoning the torturers. They, and those who enabled them, need to be prosecuted and if convicted, punished. Refusing to do so will remain a permanent and very ugly stain on President Obama's record. As far as I'm concerned, his refusal to prosecute these criminals makes him complicit in the crime, and turns all his bleating about "American values" into a steaming pile of BULLSHIT.
ReplyDeleteI was also horrified at first reading. A pardon? Yet, it does make a weird sense as it would require admission crimes have occurred. And, indeed, they did.
ReplyDeleteA pardon? that just gives the next (current?) torturers carte blanche, expecting to be pardoned like the current batch, like Catholics have to say a few Hail Marys. Do the crime? Do the time.
DeleteBush pardoned Libby, a few of the small time torture players could be pardoned. Not the big time architectects that make America the ugly sick world leader that we are now. Pardons will not make us safe, I would say that would increase the hate and violence others desire towards us. Anyone that rightfully hates our torture, senseless killing, wars and thefts will not be changed because we pardon anyone. Allowing anyone to get by with atrocities is only going to make America more of a target of revenge and to be fatally destroyed.
ReplyDeleteNo way would I pardon McCain or his cohorts. He gave us the Sarah Palin propaganda mill that still plagues us. For that one mistake alone he deserves the most wretched imprisonment the world has to give. (Endless stupid petty propaganda is a constant drumbeat
http://theimmoralminority.blogspot.com/2014/12/sarah-palins-interview-on-extra-pimping.html )
All the US (Bush-era) criminals are doing now is continuing in the world by destroying the envirnoment and ignoring Climate Change. They are still killing and torturing in that manner. if you've had asthma you know, it is like torture and you want the air and other things cleaned up in order to stop that torture. It is imperitive US war criminals are stopped for at least one on their crimes. Of course, there must be financial restitution from US torturers and criminals. If Cheney/Bush die, the finances of their families and conspirators must pay up. Look what all they did to American families. Who can pardon that? Why would that be ignored any longer?
U.N. Expert: In Wake of Intel Report, Let's Prosecute Bush-era Criminals
Bill Nye, Other Scientists Slam Media For Pretending Climate Change Deniers Are Just ‘Skeptics’
Deletehttp://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/12/10/bill-nye-other-scientists-slam-media-for-pretending-climate-change-deniers-are-just-skeptics/
Director of Central Intelligence George H. W. Bush
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_H._W._Bush#Director_of_Central_Intelligence
If you don't negotiate with terrorists, why should you pardon torturers?
ReplyDeletePrison. NO PARDONS.
ReplyDeleteAs much as I support the President, he may have inherited a culture of torture he has been forced to continue, and only been able to conceal, which makes him complicit and no better. If we really are America, we own up, and purge all these dirtbags.
ReplyDeleteIn '08, one of the things he ran on was the closing of Guantanamo Bay and he did a complete 180 once inaugurated. I was angry, "typical politician," and I still feel that way although I'd vote for him a third time if I could.
DeleteAnon at 2:42 pm. President Obama has done everything he can to get Guantanamo closed. A lot of the job is up to Congress.
DeleteBeaglemom
Heehee he still torturing us with his choice of vp.
ReplyDeleteRight. And it will go on and on. If no one will bother with the truth and prosecuting the culprits.
DeleteU.S. Senate report release reveals a "clear policy orchestrated at a high level within the Bush administration"
ReplyDeleteCall for prosecutions of U.S. officials who ordered crimes.
Leonard peltier should be released
ReplyDeleteToo bad he wasn't as "impassioned" in his choice of a Presidential running mate.
ReplyDeleteCheney especially needs to be put in the gallows in Washington D.C.! The guy is an asshole. Cannot believe he was elected to high office! Evil personified!
ReplyDeleteHe wasn't elected. The Supreme Court appointed him with help from brother Jeb.
DeleteDOES SATAN LIVE IN WASILLA?
ReplyDeleteImmoral Minority
Monday, April 28, 2014
Sarah Palin takes to Facebook to double down on her Waterboarding/Baptism remarks.
Courtesy of the Lunatic from Lake Lucille's Facebook page:
..... Darn right I’d do whatever it takes to foil their murderous jihadist plots – including waterboarding ......
If some overly sensitive wusses took offense, remember the First Amendment doesn’t give you a right not to be offended........
And for that, we should NEVER apologize. Good Lord, critics... buck up or stay in the truck.....
-Sarah Palin
http://theimmoralminority.blogspot.com/2014/04/sarah-palin-takes-to-facebook-to-double.html?m=1
Wow, she's an asshole.
DeleteFirst and above all, I can't believe I half agree with anything that comes from "Hey, get off my damned lawn!" Bomb Iran Senator McCain. I think President Obama should expedite matters, send John, and Former Presz GW Bush and Former veep Dick Cheyney, along with Rumsfeld and Rice to sincerely apologize for breaking the laws of the Geneva Convention. Send them first class, of course, then let them find their way with a compass and map.
ReplyDeleteWhat bothers me more than anything else, is these very same people swore we never deal with terrorists, and it's because of them, it seems the only thing to even start to set things right. Let them try it first, then have President Obama eloquently bail them out by getting it right the first time.
Can't wait to see what idiocy falls from McCain's other blunder's mouth.
Because she works for the Kochs who don't favor release of the torture reports and her enabler McCain is loudly supporting it. Hmmm, what to do, what to do??? Poor dear will have to choose up sides and smell armpits on this one.
DeleteI think she'll pick the Kochs, just to keep their money coming. The boys finally found someone as mean and evil as they are to do their bidding. They'll promise her that 'top spot' she mentioned wanting once they've finally seized complete control of our government, economy and every other aspect of our freedom loving lives. They're closer than most people know and some who know, refuse to believe they will be able to do it. Not me, I'm pretty sure they're in the home-stretch. That noise you hear is my knees knocking.
The world may have to do things for us. Geneva Convention is still on the table. I wish we weren't so namby pamby when it comes to our torturing idiots.
ReplyDeleteThe Missing Photos From the Senate Report on CIA Torture
ReplyDeleteHowever, the 528-page "summary version" of the report's "Findings and Conclusions" has, by the admission of Feinstein herself, been heavily redacted and is focused only on CIA torture. It reports only one prisoner death and does not include more damning information and photographic evidence on US torture and prisons operated by the US Army, US Navy and other Department of Defense (DOD) agencies.
http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/27935-the-missing-photos-from-the-senate-report-on-cia-torture
3:36 PM, DECEMBER 10 2014
The Psychologists Who Taught the C.I.A. How to Torture (and Charged $180 Million)
http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2014/12/psychologists-cia-torture-report?mbid=social_twitter
I don't believe Sarah Palin said that. Sarah is a Christian and doesn't use foul language or believes in torture.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous3:39 PM
DOES SATAN LIVE IN WASILLA?
..... Darn right I’d do whatever it takes to foil their murderous jihadist plots – including waterboarding ......
If some overly sensitive wusses took offense, remember the First Amendment doesn’t give you a right not to be offended........
And for that, we should NEVER apologize. Good Lord, critics... buck up or stay in the truck.....
-Sarah Palin
You must not know Sarah From Alaska
Delete5:13 'Assklowns' cajones, 'he pulled out too early', "I
Deletejust fucked a Black man", "So Sambo beat the Bitch", You don't know much about your false money grifting wife of a Pimp Idol.
DOES SATAN LIVE IN WASILLA?
ReplyDelete"LET ALLAH SORT IT OUT"
-Sarah Palin
LET ALLAH SORT IT OUT WAS SARAH PALIN'S RESPONSE TO WOMEN AND CHILDREN BEING CHEMICALLY MURDERED IN SYRIA BY CHEMICAL ATTACKS
“So we’re bombing Syria because Syria is bombing Syria? And I’m the idiot?”
-SarahPalin
Palin criticized Obama’s plan to bomb Syria in response to chemical weapons attacks, questioning whether a U.S. bombing would help civilians in the war-torn country.
“President Obama wants to do what, exactly? Punish evil acts in the form of a telegraphed air strike on Syria to serve as a deterrent?"
No pardons. Prosecute. Pardons will not serve as a deterrent to future crimes. Au contraire. The names of those who participated in this should be made very public. If the government refuses to prosecute these people, this will demonstrate that America has no moral authority and perhaps some of the naive and idealistic people that think joining the military is noble, will wake up and realize who and what they're devoting their life and energy to.
ReplyDeleteWhat if they gave a war and nobody came?
ASKED AND ANSWERED
ReplyDeleteAsked In 2008:
Why is Sarah Palin Trying to Divide America and stirring up hate at rallies? She is saying he is palling around with terrorist, who is the real OBama, why is he not telling the truth, questioning his patriotism, saying hes not like us and doesn't see America like we do.
And the crowds are getting fired up yelling racist stuff, and hateful words like at a KKK rally.
I thought John McCain was all about Honor. is very disappointing. I'm starting to lose respect for him.
Answered:
I have been surprised that a mother of 5 children would be teaching her children so much hatred. Both Palin and McCain are stirring up some really bad feelings against people of other religions and races with their slander. I think they are doing a tremendous amount of damage that may be hard to undo. It's possible that riots will start, I think , if they keep it up. It is NOT what this country needs. We need to work together and try to accept each other and work for world peace and peace in this country. We have enough problems on our hands without adding to it with this superficial nonsense. I think McCain is too old to think logically about his actions. He did not have good judgement to choose Palin and he has not had good judgement with Keating, and he has not had good judgement to spread slander about his oponent who has a good chance of becoming our next president and will need our unity as a nation to get us out of our problems.
Marrtha Evanns
• 6 years