Morality is not determined by the church you attend nor the faith you embrace. It is determined by the quality of your character and the positive impact you have on those you meet along your journey
Sunday, December 28, 2014
There are deleted scenes from "Jesus Camp" that may be even creepier than the actual documentary.
So Rachael's "gifts" are conversing with imaginary beings, speaking gibberish, and seeing things that are not there.
Yeah we have a definition for that in the secular world as well, and it's called "Schizophrenia."
Why is Tripp's birth a mystery? the only person who matters in it is his mother, who will regale him with it in loving terms all mothers do at some point. She might now. He'd enjoy hearing her talk about that great day. Piper did post a hospital bed picture in her bday tribute. It's always a day to remember fondly. I love how she wasn't scared either, when even mothers twice her age would be. True strength and knowing it's meant to be. She was so proud to bring him home. WIllow often talks about how she wishes they were back in 2009 and he was a baby. Happy times
To people who oddly and falsely sayBristol regrets dumping Levi, surrreeee, she really regrets that she could be the one who calls his a needy asshole. Get real, she's never been happier post breakup
4:54 AM I watched the video and listened to the audio of Bristol "never being happier post breakup" during her Happy, Happy, Happy Vibrant appearance at Thonghazi.
None of the low-IQ and uneducated Palins understand the words they use, for instance the definition of "happier" isn't punching people out and repeating the word "fuck" 50 times while bawling to the cops.
Give it up, nobody buys into your gibberish about Bristol and nobody's interested in a 24 year old loser.
I have a 13 year old nephew that announced at Christmas dinner that he felt like he was a warrior for the Lord but didn't think he did enough. He said he felt frustrated like a soldier ready for war but not allowed to go fight. Worries me. He's homeschooled and has no social interaction other than family and church.
I hate to even think it, but your nephew is a prime candidate to strap on a backpack of explosives and blow up a secular location or opposing place of worship to "find peace with Jesus". Jesus takes the place of the virgins in the afterlife...
I hate to say it but that same thought has crossed my mind. There's no talking to my sister or parents about it. In their eyes, his statement was to be commended. It really baffles me that my sister and I are so completely different. It's places like this blog that help me to feel that I'm not alone in knowing this isn't normal.
Didn't Linda Blair's character in The Exorcist speak in tongues? Many of us had imaginary friends as we were growing up. This girl's imaginary friend is God. Bet she is home schooled as well. She will probably be married off at a young age to be some fool's breeder.
This is hard for me to watch because in many ways, I was exactly like this little girl when I was her age.
When her absolute beliefs are challenged--whether that results from realizing she doesn't have "the gift of prophecy" because nothing she predicts comes true, or going through a trauma for which her religion doesn't have a tidy answer (which is what happened to me), or something else--she may experience a profound existential crisis. She will suddenly be faced with the reality that there's a huge and unexplainable disconnect between what she has always KNOWN to be true and what she is now living.
This can drive people to suicide. It can quite literally drive them insane. It can also make them double down on the religious doctrinaire-ism, reasoning that they're too sinful or they misunderstood God or they did something wrong, and that the formula would work if only they were better.
For some people, getting out of a religious brainwashing situation really is as simple as waking up one day and going, "This makes no sense." That's how it worked for my sister. For others of us, it is a years-long process fraught with depression, emotional baggage, constant self-doubt, terror, and a massive recalibration of everything we ever believed to be true about the world, ourselves, other people, politics, history, science, psychology, sex, economics, God, other religions, other countries, other cultures, evolution...I could keep going.
I think it's easy for people who have not grown up in a highly religious environment to underestimate just how difficult it can be to break with it, and frankly I've found many of them to be condescending, impatient, and dismissive of my struggles. I love IM and the IM community, but there are people who comment on these posts who obviously don't get it and have no compassion for anyone from this kind of background. I'm not saying they haven't hurt you, because they may well have. I'm not saying they aren't harmful, because too often they are. I'm just saying, if you think you have the better way, why not show it by being the better person?
If someone who is going through a crisis of faith encounters atheists who are nasty, condescending, and dismissive, it won't usually make them go, "Gee, you're right! I'm going to immediately stop believing in God!" It will make them feel even worse about themselves than they already do; confirm every bad thing they've ever been told about intolerant, arrogant, narrow-minded atheists (and believe me, you hear that a lot in evangelical circles); and quite possibly convince them that The World really is the terrible, cruel place they've always been taught. And you know what happens then? They're driven back into the embrace of their church--which is often filled with nice people who claim to care about them (even if that so-called caring is manifested in unhealthy and judgmental ways) and they become more fanatical and dogmatic than ever.
So I guess this is just a plea to separate condemnation of a religious system that brainwashes kids like Rachael from condemnation of the human beings, especially children, who have spent their lives in that system. Being vicious and mocking isn't going to win anyone to your side. And frankly, insisting on dogmatic adherence to one set of principles (you're an idiot if you believe in the big sky fairy; science is the only way to understand reality) makes you seem different only in degree, not in kind, from the ideologues many of us have spent our lives trying to escape.
As an Atheist I've been protected from religious nonsense and as an Atheist I truly don't understand your struggles, much as I can't understand what it would be like to be sexually abused or kidnapped or otherwise harmed by those I thought were my caretakers I have no way of putting myself in your shoes because these things have never happened to me.
I try to be understanding to those trying to find their way free of the cult of religion but not being a trained psychiatrist I can only go so far in understanding your plight. My wish is for every person brainwashed by every religion to find the freedom that my family has enjoyed for 3 generations. I wish I could help you but I can't, you need professionals to deprogram you but I do truly to to understand the hurt and pain that religion has caused you and hold out hope that all of you can find emotional and mental freedom from the chains of indoctrination.
To Anon 2:51 I think I've figured out the root of your dilemma! When you said, "I think it's easy for people who have not grown up in a highly religious environment to underestimate just how difficult it can be to break with it, and frankly I've found many of them to be condescending, impatient, and dismissive of my struggles," I think you're mixing apples and oranges in your plea for people to play nice.
1) You placed the burden of your path towards discovery and enlightenment on those who are already enlightened. 2) You completely dismiss the weight of the pain, torture, discrimination, etc..they felt while suffering under the hands of a religious community via their condescending, impatient and dismissive attitudes towards them. 3) You give the impression that you expect people to be understanding and loving and kind during your growth phase towards your previous faith, regardless of how poorly your faith community treated them. 4) You made it all about you.
Just stop and ask yourself: What are all of this rejected, persecuted, etc. people supposed to do with all of the pain and hurt they sustained while you were still under the sway of your religion? What are they supposed to do with it now that you have decided to transition from your religion? Just sweep their feelings under the rug?
I was born and raised a Southern Baptist (hellfire, brimstone, blah, blah, blah). I personally think you ask for far too much of others instead of allowing victims of religion the space and time they need to vent to heal. The backlash is not about you, it's about that person that is still getting over whatever hurt and pain a religious person caused them.
I can probably speak for many in saying that those of us who were mistreated by the most religious of folks -- we had no way of dealing with and healing from the hurt, pain and destructive consequences that came with their self-righteous nastiness. Today, it's just a consequence of the times we live in. Our society provides access to information that empowers people to think, speak and believe freely without fear from calling out and choosing not to believe misleading and incorrect propaganda.
As a Black woman, I have to deal with the PTSD of Black Slavery in America that both black and white people suffer through every damn day of my life. That whole slavery thing was ALL rooted in biblical bullshit. So, it's a little hard for a sister to turn the other cheek on that one.
No, it doesn't mean I want to enslave anyone and treat them as bad as my ancestors were treated and are still being treated today (by whites and by one another). I just think it's a bit much to ask that I give leniency towards your guilt as a reforming religious person so that you don't hurt as much as we did and do collectively.
When you think about it, it's another form of privileged self-righteousness -- just in a passive aggressive kinda way.
My advice: Just take the heat and learn from it instead of denying any religion-based victim the privilege of letting go their pain. If it gets too hot, then back away until some time has passed where they can regather themselves. In time, all will be better.
That poor child! Look out her window, she's living in the projects and has no hope for a bright future because she's brainwashed AND living in poverty. Why would a "lord" who loved her let her live in a place like this if he loves her so much? Also too, he'd fix her bangs, if he loved her.
I don't know where you live but the view outside her window is not the projects. She probably lives in an apartment. The grass is manicured and the surrounding grounds are extremely neat and well cared for. Big difference!
The Gifts are the scariest. Where does one go to exchange or return them? All the asylums are closed and this child needs help ASAP. This is called, excuse the vernacular, fucking first degree Child Abuse. Wonder how her "grades" are and if mommy and daddy do the work for her? She'll be lost when she's put in the real world and have to deal with real people.
Why is Tripp's birth a mystery? the only person who matters in it is his mother, who will regale him with it in loving terms all mothers do at some point. She might now. He'd enjoy hearing her talk about that great day. Piper did post a hospital bed picture in her bday tribute. It's always a day to remember fondly. I love how she wasn't scared either, when even mothers twice her age would be. True strength and knowing it's meant to be. She was so proud to bring him home. WIllow often talks about how she wishes they were back in 2009 and he was a baby. Happy times
ReplyDeleteWhy would Bristol be scared during Tripp's birth .... it wasn't her first.
DeleteJust wait until he hits his tweens.
DeleteWrong thread 4:43 AM ... again. Seek help. You are not well.
DeleteYou Palin worshipers scare the shit out of me. 4:43
DeleteSpeaking of Schizophrenia...
DeleteHi Sarah!
DeleteLiving vibrantly yada yada yada
DeleteTo people who oddly and falsely sayBristol regrets dumping Levi, surrreeee, she really regrets that she could be the one who calls his a needy asshole. Get real, she's never been happier post breakup
ReplyDeleteHuh? Searching for a nugget of sense in that word salad.
DeleteIs that why she can't keep her hands off Todd's crotch?
Delete4:54 AM
DeleteI watched the video and listened to the audio of Bristol "never being happier post breakup" during her Happy, Happy, Happy Vibrant appearance at Thonghazi.
None of the low-IQ and uneducated Palins understand the words they use, for instance the definition of "happier" isn't punching people out and repeating the word "fuck" 50 times while bawling to the cops.
Give it up, nobody buys into your gibberish about Bristol and nobody's interested in a 24 year old loser.
I have a 13 year old nephew that announced at Christmas dinner that he felt like he was a warrior for the Lord but didn't think he did enough. He said he felt frustrated like a soldier ready for war but not allowed to go fight. Worries me. He's homeschooled and has no social interaction other than family and church.
ReplyDeleteI hate to even think it, but your nephew is a prime candidate to strap on a backpack of explosives and blow up a secular location or opposing place of worship to "find peace with Jesus". Jesus takes the place of the virgins in the afterlife...
DeleteThis is scary and why I am opposed to home schooling.
DeleteI am very happy I have two daughters able to think for themselves.
I hate to say it but that same thought has crossed my mind. There's no talking to my sister or parents about it. In their eyes, his statement was to be commended. It really baffles me that my sister and I are so completely different. It's places like this blog that help me to feel that I'm not alone in knowing this isn't normal.
DeleteIn the future .... this poor girl will drown her five children and say "God told me to do it"
ReplyDeletelol.
DeleteYep.
But hopefully she will use her brains to escape this nonsensical crap.
Jesus Take The Wheel...
DeleteAre you the one talking in that video above, Troll @4:43???
ReplyDeleteBecause you sure as heck do not make any sense!
This is a very disturbing documentary. People can escape this nonsense though. I did. It took 40 years, but better late than never.
ReplyDeleteDidn't Linda Blair's character in The Exorcist speak in tongues? Many of us had imaginary friends as we were growing up. This girl's imaginary friend is God. Bet she is home schooled as well. She will probably be married off at a young age to be some fool's breeder.
ReplyDeleteJust what our world needs! Another brainwashed fanatic ready and willing to do ANYTHING "for god".
ReplyDeleteThat little girl is sick in the head.
ReplyDeleteShe needs to be institutionalized and her parents jailed.
Belief in nonsense is NOT harmless.
This is hard for me to watch because in many ways, I was exactly like this little girl when I was her age.
ReplyDeleteWhen her absolute beliefs are challenged--whether that results from realizing she doesn't have "the gift of prophecy" because nothing she predicts comes true, or going through a trauma for which her religion doesn't have a tidy answer (which is what happened to me), or something else--she may experience a profound existential crisis. She will suddenly be faced with the reality that there's a huge and unexplainable disconnect between what she has always KNOWN to be true and what she is now living.
This can drive people to suicide. It can quite literally drive them insane. It can also make them double down on the religious doctrinaire-ism, reasoning that they're too sinful or they misunderstood God or they did something wrong, and that the formula would work if only they were better.
For some people, getting out of a religious brainwashing situation really is as simple as waking up one day and going, "This makes no sense." That's how it worked for my sister. For others of us, it is a years-long process fraught with depression, emotional baggage, constant self-doubt, terror, and a massive recalibration of everything we ever believed to be true about the world, ourselves, other people, politics, history, science, psychology, sex, economics, God, other religions, other countries, other cultures, evolution...I could keep going.
I think it's easy for people who have not grown up in a highly religious environment to underestimate just how difficult it can be to break with it, and frankly I've found many of them to be condescending, impatient, and dismissive of my struggles. I love IM and the IM community, but there are people who comment on these posts who obviously don't get it and have no compassion for anyone from this kind of background. I'm not saying they haven't hurt you, because they may well have. I'm not saying they aren't harmful, because too often they are. I'm just saying, if you think you have the better way, why not show it by being the better person?
If someone who is going through a crisis of faith encounters atheists who are nasty, condescending, and dismissive, it won't usually make them go, "Gee, you're right! I'm going to immediately stop believing in God!" It will make them feel even worse about themselves than they already do; confirm every bad thing they've ever been told about intolerant, arrogant, narrow-minded atheists (and believe me, you hear that a lot in evangelical circles); and quite possibly convince them that The World really is the terrible, cruel place they've always been taught. And you know what happens then? They're driven back into the embrace of their church--which is often filled with nice people who claim to care about them (even if that so-called caring is manifested in unhealthy and judgmental ways) and they become more fanatical and dogmatic than ever.
So I guess this is just a plea to separate condemnation of a religious system that brainwashes kids like Rachael from condemnation of the human beings, especially children, who have spent their lives in that system. Being vicious and mocking isn't going to win anyone to your side. And frankly, insisting on dogmatic adherence to one set of principles (you're an idiot if you believe in the big sky fairy; science is the only way to understand reality) makes you seem different only in degree, not in kind, from the ideologues many of us have spent our lives trying to escape.
As an Atheist I've been protected from religious nonsense and as an Atheist I truly don't understand your struggles, much as I can't understand what it would be like to be sexually abused or kidnapped or otherwise harmed by those I thought were my caretakers I have no way of putting myself in your shoes because these things have never happened to me.
DeleteI try to be understanding to those trying to find their way free of the cult of religion but not being a trained psychiatrist I can only go so far in understanding your plight. My wish is for every person brainwashed by every religion to find the freedom that my family has enjoyed for 3 generations. I wish I could help you but I can't, you need professionals to deprogram you but I do truly to to understand the hurt and pain that religion has caused you and hold out hope that all of you can find emotional and mental freedom from the chains of indoctrination.
To Anon 2:51
DeleteI think I've figured out the root of your dilemma! When you said, "I think it's easy for people who have not grown up in a highly religious environment to underestimate just how difficult it can be to break with it, and frankly I've found many of them to be condescending, impatient, and dismissive of my struggles," I think you're mixing apples and oranges in your plea for people to play nice.
1) You placed the burden of your path towards discovery and enlightenment on those who are already enlightened.
2) You completely dismiss the weight of the pain, torture, discrimination, etc..they felt while suffering under the hands of a religious community via their condescending, impatient and dismissive attitudes towards them.
3) You give the impression that you expect people to be understanding and loving and kind during your growth phase towards your previous faith, regardless of how poorly your faith community treated them.
4) You made it all about you.
Just stop and ask yourself: What are all of this rejected, persecuted, etc. people supposed to do with all of the pain and hurt they sustained while you were still under the sway of your religion? What are they supposed to do with it now that you have decided to transition from your religion? Just sweep their feelings under the rug?
I was born and raised a Southern Baptist (hellfire, brimstone, blah, blah, blah). I personally think you ask for far too much of others instead of allowing victims of religion the space and time they need to vent to heal. The backlash is not about you, it's about that person that is still getting over whatever hurt and pain a religious person caused them.
I can probably speak for many in saying that those of us who were mistreated by the most religious of folks -- we had no way of dealing with and healing from the hurt, pain and destructive consequences that came with their self-righteous nastiness. Today, it's just a consequence of the times we live in. Our society provides access to information that empowers people to think, speak and believe freely without fear from calling out and choosing not to believe misleading and incorrect propaganda.
As a Black woman, I have to deal with the PTSD of Black Slavery in America that both black and white people suffer through every damn day of my life. That whole slavery thing was ALL rooted in biblical bullshit. So, it's a little hard for a sister to turn the other cheek on that one.
No, it doesn't mean I want to enslave anyone and treat them as bad as my ancestors were treated and are still being treated today (by whites and by one another). I just think it's a bit much to ask that I give leniency towards your guilt as a reforming religious person so that you don't hurt as much as we did and do collectively.
When you think about it, it's another form of privileged self-righteousness -- just in a passive aggressive kinda way.
My advice: Just take the heat and learn from it instead of denying any religion-based victim the privilege of letting go their pain. If it gets too hot, then back away until some time has passed where they can regather themselves. In time, all will be better.
Just sayin....
That poor child! Look out her window, she's living in the projects and has no hope for a bright future because she's brainwashed AND living in poverty. Why would a "lord" who loved her let her live in a place like this if he loves her so much? Also too, he'd fix her bangs, if he loved her.
ReplyDeleteI don't know where you live but the view outside her window is not the projects. She probably lives in an apartment. The grass is manicured and the surrounding grounds are extremely neat and well cared for. Big difference!
DeleteThe Gifts are the scariest. Where does one go to exchange or return them? All the asylums are closed and this child needs help ASAP. This is called, excuse the vernacular, fucking first degree Child Abuse. Wonder how her "grades" are and if mommy and daddy do the work for her? She'll be lost when she's put in the real world and have to deal with real people.
ReplyDelete