Speaking to The Irish Times in advance of a public talk at Trinity College Dublin on Tuesday evening, Prof Dawkins said: “There is a balancing act and you have to balance the rights of parents and the rights of children and I think the balance has swung too far towards parents…
“Children do need to be protected so that they can have a proper education and not be indoctrinated in whatever religion their parents happen to have been brought up in.”
Prof Dawkins, who spent Monday in Belfast, praised the work of Atheist Ireland in campaigning to separate church and state in education.
Warning against the “power of childhood indoctrination”, he said it was futile debating with people who put the Bible ahead of scientific evidence. “You have to write off those people” but you can try to convince younger people to avoid superstition, Prof Dawkins said.
His plea for reform was backed by Prof Krauss who said: “Parents, of course, have concerns and ‘say’ but they don’t have the right to shield their children from knowledge. That is not a right, any more than they have the right to shield their children from healthcare or medicine.”
I don't think that my position on this is any secret, I believe that if something is worthy of our faith it should be strong enough to attract that faith when we are old enough to have developed critical thinking skills.
Do any of you disagree? And if so, why?
I absolutely agree. The best thing we can teach our kids is to think for themselves, to be discerning and sceptical about conclusions and remain open, to embrace wonder and curiosity always. The magical thinking required in religious belief systems is crippling and confining.
ReplyDeleteYup, as long as they are not discerning or skeptical about evolution. Don't allow them to wonder or be curious about the worship of that religion.
Delete9:37 - You poor child. I can see the damage has already been done. You have no understanding of what science is.
Delete12:03
DeleteYou poor dumb cabbage who has been deprived of a smidgeon of common sense.
Sorry, 9:37. but unless you were being sarcastic (and there is no way to tell from your brief comment), 12:03 gave you just what you deserved.
DeleteScience is NOT a religion and only the fools who argue against evolution and true science even attempt to describe science as such. It's merely another way of knocking the thing not understood just to mock it and attempt to make it laughable.
And your comeback to the comment is just plain dumb!
Any real scientist IS going to look at evolution - not to mention most other questions in science - with skepticism. Further, a person raised to use scientific principals in their thinking and examination will be discerning.
No dummy, I'll tell you who's the fool, the worshiper of evolution who says something that is plausible to have happened is evidence that it did happen.
DeleteHas a living cell ever been created in a lab?
Hey, give me a really good laugh and explain homosexuality in Evolution.
Quit embarrassing yourself Einstein.
@8:05
DeleteOh great. Another idiot who thinks bombast is an argument against his hated foe evolution. Geez, stupid. Get a life - and some help. In the mean time, go away little one. Adults are talking.
What about that cell? How do you explain homosexuality in evolution?
DeleteSimply because something is plausible doesn't make it evidence.
You are just like a creationist who simply believes what he is told and everyone else is wrong.
Besides that, you continue to act like a troll.
@5:09
DeleteTime, fool. Time. Give it time and the cell WILL be made.
Oh. And evolution doesn't seek to attempt to explain specific things in life. It attempts to explain how one thing came from another n the chain of life.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Oh, and as a follow-up? The task of creating a cell isn't part of evolution, either. That would fall under the auspices of one of the biological fields - IF there was ever a great enough need to do so.
DeleteI absolutely agree with this. Being exposed to this claptrap as children by the dominant culture explains why a lot of us seem to easily suspend critical thinking skills. It is child abuse.
ReplyDeleteWhat is worse than government indoctrination? Stupid kids are filled with this crap for at least 12 years, they get out of school and what do they do. The idiots volunteer to be cannon fodder or end up like a Chris Kyle. They joyfully bomb entire countries, invade them, occupy them, kill them, then piss on their dead bodies. You think Rachael Maddow, Jon Stewart, Colbert, Oliver, Palin, Oreilly and all the rest don't support the same gawdamn thing. And name one Nobel Peace Prize winning president and the ones before him that aren't bathing the war profiteers in a pool of blood money. You tell me who's telling fairy tales. Fairy tales like these stupid kids are protecting our freedom from some guy living in a tent in a desert.
ReplyDeleteI am not an atheist, but I am bringing up my son aesthetically. I am giving him religious instruction through historical context, philosophical debate, innate morality and ethics. For example, we have discussed about how Christianity subsumed pagan religions co-opting their holy days and traditions. We compared how the Russian Orthodox church did that with the Alutiiq people with live among. Last night we were watching NOVA which was about the restoration of one of the world's oldest religious structures that was originally a Byzantine Church but now is a Muslim Mosque. It was a very interesting conversation we had about how the Muslim's did the same thing as the Christians in this case, plastering over, and hiding others beliefs.
ReplyDeleteIf my son decides to "pick" a religious belief to follow in his adult life, at least he will do it with full context, history and critical thinking skills at his back. And he's only 10. :-)
And he has a parent setting a wonderful example
DeleteChildren shouldn't have religion forced upon them but be left to mature until they have enough experience of life to decide on their beliefs. Religions know the best way to spread their disease is to pick either very young or vulnerable or gullible people
ReplyDeleteI was in a church recently where the pastor warned the congregation that if they didn't convince the kids to follow before they were 18, there would be no church left.
DeleteWe are the product of luck. What race you are born into, what geographical region, what religion your parents follow....Think about that. Why would any one of these variables be better or more correct over any other. If I was born in China, I'd be the best chinese person, following the customs, heritage tradtions, etc. Humans are narcissists at heart and think whatever THEY are is the BEST.
ReplyDeleteWe are all the same . All religions can't be correct, so that means none of them can be correct. If you chose to continue to beleive, that is fine, but your right does not supercede my right NOT to follow a religion.And it for damn sure can't influence government.issues that affect all of us.
"And it for damn sure can't influence government.issues that affect all of us."
DeleteModify that to SHOULDN'T and I can agree with you. Unfortunately the current thinking of those on the religious far right brings the concept into question. Hell, they don't even accept this country is SECULAR and will argue until they are blue in the face otherwise - DESPITE the legal and written and historical evidence to the contrary.
I believe the popular mantra Break The Cycle Of Child Abuse applies well here, though many Christian parents would like us to believe we should Respect The Cycle Of Child Abuse instead, and claim they now have a responsibility to inflict the abuse they received from their parents on their own children. It's time to stop walking away whispering "I feel sorry for those kids" under our breath without doing anything about it.
ReplyDeleteI guess I must have done something right - neither of myy now adult children are religious at all. Both went to Jewish Sunday school and learned about the history of their fathers people. In high school, both read the bible as part of a literature course. Both are extremely bright and critical thinkers, and neither chose to have faith in a god.
ReplyDeleteThis is a tough one...
ReplyDeleteDo parents have the right to indoctrinate their children in the teaching of Islam?
Hammering into their little heads that the One True God is
...Ahura Mazda?
The Great Raven?
Shiva!
The Flying Spaghetti Monster!
Ramalamadingdong the Magic Unicorn!
YES!
Sure, why not?
And they have the right to take that child to a place
- church, synagogue, ashram, temple -
where other like-minded people believe the same primitive superstitious nonsense.
But that is where their rights end.
They DO NOT have the right to insist that SCHOOLS teach their personal crazy-ass brand superstitious nonsense no matter how many of their fellow delusionalists live in that school district.
I basically agree. Parents should have the right to pass on their values and beliefs as a matter of personal conscience to the point they're kept within the home. The best parents will also teach critical thinking but society can't demand that they do. Society needs to be vigilant to protect secularism outside the home and make sure public schools teach and reflect facts and critical thinking.
DeleteGood. I agree. Should apply to medical care too.
ReplyDeleteGirls brought up in male-dominant religions get double the abuse as the boys.
ReplyDeleteWell, I think vociferous atheists are kind of annoying so have stopped reading your posts about it.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I feel strongly that religious indoctrination of young children is sad and maybe criminal. I let my own go to Sunday School a few times with friends and was glad that they "dropped out". Of course, I had to reason with them that they needn't fear the hell that their friends told them they were now headed for.
I DO wish that schools would offer a basic course in learning about the major religions of the world. They would have a better chance of understanding that the foundation of most of them (despite the voodoo curses) is that we "do [good] unto others". We don't need to belong to ANY religion, but I believe a broad understanding of all religions could foster an enriched (or at least educated) life.
In the real world intelligent children will explore, they will ask questions, they will seek knowledge, and in doing so will find plenty of evidence of the harm done by religions throughout history. They will also realize that many of the world's holy tomes are fraught with hypocrisy and contradiction.
ReplyDeleteIf unencumbered by religious indoctrination and conservative parents they will also be allowed to explore scientific topics and find current, proven, scientific knowledge regarding the origins of themselves and the larger universe. An intelligent child with no encumbrances and freedom to read and explore will answer many of life's most persistent questions, without much help from anyone.
"if something is worthy of our faith it should be strong enough to attract that faith when we are old enough to have developed critical thinking skills." ~Gryphen
ReplyDeleteWord! This is the retort to any who seek laws and government sponsorship for what should be matters of conscience.
“When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself so that its professors are obliged to call for the help of the civil power, ’tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one.”
- Benjamin Franklin
The main problem I see here is the logical trap produced by the division being placed between the children and the parents in the phrase: "There is a balancing act and you have to balance the rights of parents and the rights of children and I think the balance has swung too far towards parents…"
ReplyDeleteThis practice has led many to discuss this further without seeing the trap. Even the discussion of rights is mentally trapping, when you don't understand that you need not give up your real power in return for a relationship with some so-called higher authority that may result in receiving what is termed RIGHTS.
The idea of protection is a mind-swallowing concept with coercion built into the very fabric of the language and interwoven into the ignorance of many.
I do appreciate some of the basic ideas that can help to free the mind of many from certain views locked into place through belief.