Morality is not determined by the church you attend nor the faith you embrace. It is determined by the quality of your character and the positive impact you have on those you meet along your journey
Apparently epidemiology and herd immunity is an unknown 'science fact' among many ppl. which I find disconcerting. Where are our basic science courses in jr. high and high school? This cartoon is true, and it I upsetting.
I don't care about this whole personal belief crap. Schools need to go back to requiring students to be vaccinated ( except those unable medically able). And the personal belief crowd can either find a private school that takes the disease spreaders or home school them.
BTW last yr there were about 100 measles cases This yr we are well past it already in febuary I predict next year in 2016 that there will be a thousand cases and I don't even want to think about 2017
I would ask everyone that reads here to either take this very seriously for your children's sake, or for that of your Grandkiddos. Either check if your children's ( or encourage the grandkiddos parents) clinic accepts non vaxxers, if not make a change and tell your Doc why you are making that change. Science tells me we are headed back to mass outbreaks and it's not going to be good.
There was a small outbreak of measles in San Diego back in 2008 where an unvaccinated child and his family went on vacation overseas. When he got back from the trip, he was sick. His parents brought him to the pediatrician. Turns out it was the measles. Well, a few other kids at the doctors office got it from him, including babies who were too young to get the MMR.
This American Life told the story of what happened afterwards. The baby got so sick, his parents thought he was going to die. Did the parents of the unvaccinated measle kid care? Nah, not really. They interviewed a representative of the parents who basically said it's their choice and the health of their child (based on some fairytale about the dangers of the MMR) is more important than the health of any other child.
If you don't want to vaccinate your children, find a physician's officer filled with other families who choose not to vaccinate their children. Of course, that will place you at higher risk for your unvaccinated child getting one of these illnesses, but why should you get to benefit from herd immunity based on your unscientific gut feelings and google science diplomas?
I work in an elementary school and we deal with enough contagious diseases that DON'T have vaccines.
I don't want to have to worry about the really nasty ones spreading because some parent believes eating lots of organic carrots will keep their little cherub from catching measles.
If your child is vaccinated, why worry about the child that is not? On average, more than 85% of the kids ARE vaccinated, thus the 'herd immunity' is supposed to be there. How come that in many of these recent 'outbreaks' it is actually the VACCINATED kids who get sick, not the non- vaccinated ones? Also, too: were you aware that the father of the leukemia kid is actually working for the biggest vaccine maker in the world - that is IMMUNE to lawsuits from vaccine-adverse reactions like brain damage and asthma and even death? Were you aware that each vaccine insert actually does state that there is a possibility of brain swelling, of death and even (gasp!) of autism as a reaction to the shots? Were you aware that our children nowadays get seven and eight different vaccines at one time? (Used to be one or two, sometimes three max!) Were you aware that there is aluminum and - yes, still! - mercury in most of the shots, and that those will accumulate in the brain?
After reading the seven pages of single space type in small print of side effects, precautions and warnings, I wasn't willing to risk my child's well-being on such a gamble. He'd be better off -odds-wise- possibly getting the measles.
Oh, by the way, I'm an interpreter for the deaf and I've also done some deaf-blind interpreting, so the kids who lose hearing and/or sight from the measles will be my future students.
Of course, you're also taking the risk of your infected child KILLING another child who's too young to get the vaccine or whose immune system is compromised, but one less kid in the world is no big deal as long as it's not yours, right? Assuming that yours DOES survive, which not all kids do.
You Betcha. When my kid is sick and has a fever, the first thing I'm gonna do is make him run around the mall and infect others. What kind of dumb ass are you?
I am getting SOOO sick of this bullshit debate and I am finally going to let it all hang out here because some of us are not using our brains. Some folks here just love political polarization, so if some right wing nut says that the "sky is blue" you will deny it because the wing nut can't possibly be right. This vaccine issue is the perfect example. Some of you think that science is a religion and you worship it as such. You take small pieces of information out of context and you quote it -- just like the idiot bible thumpers.
So first, if your kid is vaccinated... then that's it-- what the f@#$ are you worried about??? Do you believe that the vaccination confers immunity or NOT???? Why do you care if someone else is not vaccinated? Do you understand science or NOT?? We are NOT herd animals.
All of you liberal "pro-vaccinators under any and all conditions" -- do you understand the difference between a disease like polio and a disease like measles???? For decades, US children had measles for a week and then had a natural immunity for life. PLEASE do not tell me about the small percentage of those who suffered more serious effects of this disease in the US. WHY?? not because I don't personally care for them, but because THEY ARE A SMALL MINORITY and therefore we do not make scientific rules based on such a small percentage of the data... get it?? BUT the piece that you brilliant bleeding hearts refuse to see is that this vaccination craze is being driven by BIG PHARMA. It is NOT being driven by modern science -- you know exploration for the purpose of knowledge, not rigged experiments for the purpose of commerce-- of selling the idea to the whores that make up our state assemblies that un-necessary vaccinations should be mandated. WAKE UP!!
In places, regions, nations where there is poor nutrition, poor sanitation,etc. certain diseases will be more prevalent and more deadly. THAT IS WHERE THE VACCINATIONS WILL BE MORE NECESSARY. Beyond that, we should all have the freedom to determine which vaccinations we think are right for ourselves and our children. But some of us here think that BIG PHARMA should decide...
Science approaches problems on a case by case basis. Unfortunately, some of us want iron clad general rules -- you know -- like religion. It's time to wake up and think for yourselves....
It is herd thinking that dictates the one size fits all mentality.
The problem is that those who vaccinated do NOT believe that their kid is immune. MANY of those who got measles (was it really measles?) were vaccinated.
Wow, that was quite a diatribe. Please do some actual reading about immunity. You tell us that WE don't understand science, then you clearly demonstrate your misunderstanding of immunology.
The reason herd immunity is so important is that some people can't get vaccinated, some people are too young to get vaccinated, and immunization fails for a very, very small percentage of people.
Who ever told you science approaches problems on a case-by-case basis? Science is generally based on probabilities, not individual cases. Perhaps you are confusing "science" with "doctors" (although I'm sure you don't avail yourself to any doctors, considering they are in league with Big Pharma!!!)
And, for the last freaking time..."Big Pharma!!!" has a lot more to gain from people getting these diseases than from people getting a few shots. The profits from vaccines are beyond miniscule compared with profits from pretty much every other drug they market and sell.
"MANY of those who got measles (was it really measles?) were vaccinated."
It's not the number of people who got the measles, it's the number of vaccinated people vs. the number of unvaccinated people who got the measles. The number of vaccinated people at Disney that day outnumbered the number of unvaccinated people by a huge factor.
In other words, if there were 10 unvaccinated people at Disney, and 5 got the measles, that's 50% of them. If there were 10,000 unvaccinated people at Disney and 10 got the measles, that's .1%. (I'm making up these numbers, but you should get the point).
There is a very small percentage of those who get the vaccine who won't obtain full immunity. That (alone with the fact that some people can't get the vaccine and some are too young) is another reason why herd immunity is so important.
I had mumps as a child. I was miserable for a week or so and then I recovered. No big deal, right?
Well, unfortunately, my father caught it from me and ended up in the hospital. A priest from our church caught it from a parishioner and nearly died. No big deal, right?
A former boss of mine had polio as a child. She used a crutch for most of her life, and now must use a wheelchair because the constant physical stress took such a toll on her body for years. No big deal, right?
I'm an interpreter for the deaf, and some of the older members of the deaf community are deaf or deaf-blind because of measles, meningitis or other preventable diseases. No big deal, right?
I was a child when many of the vaccines were developed. I caught some of the childhood diseases prior to that time and received vaccines for others. I don't worry about my own health. I DO, however, worry about the possibility of babies or people with compromised immune systems (like my sister and close friend who both dealt with cancer) being exposed to measles by people who chose to ignore the benefits of science.
Ok. Using your logic, 11:51 : your father, the priest, and a few more people got sicker than most people. Big deal. (To you, yes!) What about all the THOUSANDS of kids who have reactions to vaccinations? They have no right to health? What about the numerous people who have died after getting the shots? Now they are linking vaccinations to SIDS, for crying out loud! Tell your story to a mother who has a child that was healthy and happy and ahead-of-the-curve before betting their 7 two-year-shots and now are autistic/brain damaged/ whatever you want to call it. Tell that to the mother who had a happy baby until his 5 four-months shots, and a day later is dead of 'SIDS' after being listless and cranky for the time after the shots! READ THE PACKAGE INSERTS TO THE VACCINES, for crying out loud!
There is no scientific evidence that vaccines cause autism.
There is no scientific evidence that vaccines cause SIDS.
There is correlation without causation. There is confirmation bias. There are recall problems. There are people who think their google research and gut feelings are more valid than the expertise of doctors and immunologists. There are nebulous and unsubstantiated numbers about serious vaccine reactions. There are people who will data mine and inflate and outright lie to prey on the fears of parents. And there are people who prey on the emotions of others to get their point across.
I am glad to have gotten more discussion going, but please don't confuse things I've said with others. Nowhere did I discuss the Disneyland situation. The fact that a small percentage of those who are vaccinated do not get the immunity is an interesting issue to look at, but it was not my point.
to 11:59 AM -- I made a clear distinction between diseases like polio and those like measles and mumps. I, too, was a child when many of the early vaccines were developed.
The reasons given by government and the pharmaceutical interests, a generation later, for chicken pox vaccines and the like was SO THAT WORKERS WOULD NOT HAVE TO CARE FOR THEIR OWN KIDS FOR OVER A WEEK and miss work. These newer vaccines (like MMR, chicken pox) were developed a generation later when more women were in the work force. They were commercially driven "discoveries," thus unlike earlier vaccines for polio, small pox, etc.-which were far more dangerous diseases. Moreover, even the drug companies readily admit that the new flu vaccines are not always effective because the strains keep changing.
About science and big numbers... If a "pure" scientist, driven by knowledge, not commerce, faces a case or a few pieces of data that violate the general rule -- they will explore that. You know...LIKE WHEN AN "O" RING FAILS... However, pure scientists would not suggest making general rules from small amounts of data. So back to 11:59 - I don't doubt your story, but are you suggesting that because a small percentage of folks had severe reactions that the ENTIRE POPULATION must be vaccinated?
How about AIDS -- does anyone believe that the entire population must be required to be vaccinated against that? Silly right? Especially since a closer examination of the nature of the illness by some scientists found that there were other ways to contain it.
This debate is, in part, fear driven. And when fear controls thinking, we usually end up making poor decisions.
Just for the record, if it is not obvious - I am NOT against vaccinations per se, I am vaccinated and so were the(now adult) kids...But I do not go along with every flavor of the month vaccination..
I'm glad my children were able to be vaccinated for chicken pox. They won't be at risk for shingles when they get older. As soon as I'm able, I'll be getting the shingles vaccine.
AIDS isn't measles. Measles is an incredibly contagious airborn disease. It lingers for hours in the air after an infected person leaves. And people can spread it before they even know they have it. Please tell me other ways that measles can be contained?
11:47 doesn't think that pharmaceutical companies profit very much from providing vaccines and 1:12 thinks that measles is more serious than AIDS.... this, my friends, is what happens when fear takes over.... the logic is jaw dropping
I am the same person. Are you being purposefully disingenuous or are you just having trouble reading what I wrote.
What I wrote was that vaccines make up a very small proportion of pharma profits. This was in the context of the fact that pharma. companies would make a ton more money on the drugs used to treat these diseases.
As far as measles go, what I wrote was that measles spread differently and more readily than AIDS. When you say that we've figured out other ways to contain AIDS so we don't need to vaccinate for it, I asked how that relates to a highly contagious airborne virus. From an individual standpoint, AIDS is "more serious" than measles. From a public health standpoint (which is what we are talking about here), measles is "more serious" than AIDS in that it can affect so many more people so much easier.
No actually... you said "the profits from vaccines are beyond miniscule... compared to other drugs they market." OK lets look at that point. The per unit profit on vaccines may be smaller than say on Viagra or Nexium, but if a vaccine is MANDATED by the state, they make up the profit in volume. Please. let's use our brains here. That's why vaccines are different from any other product the Drug companies make. They can use the state to FORCE people, for generations, to put that product into their bloodstreams. In fact, the government can force people in the military to take vaccinations that were not fully tested. There was a LOT of protest about this by Iraq war vets. So your point about low per unit profits is silly. Please...
Now in case you are not aware, a generation of millions of people, much of the U.S. baby boom generation, had measles, survived just fine and now are immune. I hope you can integrate that information into your awareness. You are making a frightening case about an illness that was not serious for most people for about 70 years. BUT, after the mandated vaccinations started, how do you think that affected the mutations and development of the measles? Think about it.
I am not being disingenuous at all. You have encountered someone who takes what you say VERY seriously and is holding it up for honest and rigorous examination instead of shaking my head in fearful hysteria. I would call that a respectful response.
I will never understand parents who want their kids to get sick and die from a disease we have a cure for. The same parents that are alive and were able to have children because of vaccinations.
What are you talking about? Who said anything like that??? First, vaccinations are NOT cures, they can be preventative. I hope you know the difference. Secondly, as others have stated, Polio can be deadly or serious... but chickenpox is not a deadly disease. Very few of the recent vaccine mandates are for serious illnesses.
Peanut allergies have increased dramatically since the introduction of peanut oil adjuvants in vaccines: http://www.thedoctorwithin.com/allergies/vaccines-and-the-peanut-allergy-epidemic/
Gryphen, I've followed you for years. But as a fellow free-thinker, I disagree with your stance on vaccination. Vaccine injury is real! Billions of dollars have been paid to families with vaccine injured children via the government's Vaccine Injury fund. Pharmaceutical companies were protected from liability by congress under President Reagan. What other company is completely immune when their product is found to have caused injury? The US Supreme Court has labeled vaccines as "unavoidably unsafe". I really believe that if you would do more research, you'd find just how shockingly little evidence there is of vaccine safety. This is not a conservative/liberal issue. Many liberals are opposed to mandatory vaccination and there are many conservatives who are calling for forced vaccination. Opposition to vaccines began in England with the forced vaccination with Jenner's smallpox vaccine that killed many people, this did not come about because of Jenny McCarthy. Please do your research before you jump on the bus with the rest of them! http://www.collective-evolution.com/2015/01/29/neuroscientist-makes-it-clear-why-aluminum-adjuvants-should-not-be-in-vaccines/
There has never been a study of unvaccinated vs. vaccinated children. Please read everything presented before you label all parents who choose to question the safety of the current vaccine schedule as "anti-vaxxer" nut jobs. http://www.fourteenstudies.org/ourstudies.html
Apparently epidemiology and herd immunity is an unknown 'science fact' among many ppl. which I find disconcerting. Where are our basic science courses in jr. high and high school? This cartoon is true, and it I upsetting.
ReplyDeleteTranslation: I got mine
DeleteA'int that the truth.
ReplyDeleteNow come and get your snow back Alaska. You need it and we don't want anymore.
I don't care about this whole personal belief crap. Schools need to go back to requiring students to be vaccinated ( except those unable medically able).
ReplyDeleteAnd the personal belief crowd can either find a private school that takes the disease spreaders or home school them.
BTW last yr there were about 100 measles cases
This yr we are well past it already in febuary
I predict next year in 2016 that there will be a thousand cases
and I don't even want to think about 2017
I would ask everyone that reads here to either take this very seriously for your children's sake, or for that of your Grandkiddos.
Either check if your children's ( or encourage the grandkiddos parents) clinic accepts non vaxxers, if not make a change and tell your Doc why you are making that change.
Science tells me we are headed back to mass outbreaks and it's not going to be good.
I'm hearing about more and more pediatricians who are refusing to accept non-vaccinated children as patients.
DeleteHope that trend continues and spreads.
Me, too.
DeleteThere was a small outbreak of measles in San Diego back in 2008 where an unvaccinated child and his family went on vacation overseas. When he got back from the trip, he was sick. His parents brought him to the pediatrician. Turns out it was the measles. Well, a few other kids at the doctors office got it from him, including babies who were too young to get the MMR.
This American Life told the story of what happened afterwards. The baby got so sick, his parents thought he was going to die. Did the parents of the unvaccinated measle kid care? Nah, not really. They interviewed a representative of the parents who basically said it's their choice and the health of their child (based on some fairytale about the dangers of the MMR) is more important than the health of any other child.
If you don't want to vaccinate your children, find a physician's officer filled with other families who choose not to vaccinate their children. Of course, that will place you at higher risk for your unvaccinated child getting one of these illnesses, but why should you get to benefit from herd immunity based on your unscientific gut feelings and google science diplomas?
You people are clearly bed-wetting cry-babies.
ReplyDeleteBased on what, please?
DeleteI work in an elementary school and we deal with enough contagious diseases that DON'T have vaccines.
ReplyDeleteI don't want to have to worry about the really nasty ones spreading because some parent believes eating lots of organic carrots will keep their little cherub from catching measles.
If your child is vaccinated, why worry about the child that is not? On average, more than 85% of the kids ARE vaccinated, thus the 'herd immunity' is supposed to be there.
ReplyDeleteHow come that in many of these recent 'outbreaks' it is actually the VACCINATED kids who get sick, not the non- vaccinated ones?
Also, too: were you aware that the father of the leukemia kid is actually working for the biggest vaccine maker in the world - that is IMMUNE to lawsuits from vaccine-adverse reactions like brain damage and asthma and even death?
Were you aware that each vaccine insert actually does state that there is a possibility of brain swelling, of death and even (gasp!) of autism as a reaction to the shots?
Were you aware that our children nowadays get seven and eight different vaccines at one time? (Used to be one or two, sometimes three max!)
Were you aware that there is aluminum and - yes, still! - mercury in most of the shots, and that those will accumulate in the brain?
None of what you've written here is true. Not one thing. I hope anyone reading your nonsense won't be swayed by your illogical fear-mongering.
DeleteAfter reading the seven pages of single space type in small print of side effects, precautions and warnings, I wasn't willing to risk my child's well-being on such a gamble. He'd be better off -odds-wise- possibly getting the measles.
ReplyDeleteWay to go, parent of the year.
DeleteThanks for helping provide me with job security.
DeleteOh, by the way, I'm an interpreter for the deaf and I've also done some deaf-blind interpreting, so the kids who lose hearing and/or sight from the measles will be my future students.
Of course, you're also taking the risk of your infected child KILLING another child who's too young to get the vaccine or whose immune system is compromised, but one less kid in the world is no big deal as long as it's not yours, right? Assuming that yours DOES survive, which not all kids do.
You Betcha. When my kid is sick and has a fever, the first thing I'm gonna do is make him run around the mall and infect others. What kind of dumb ass are you?
DeleteVery good, 12:58. I'm glad to hear it.
DeleteAlso, don't take him to the doctor.
I am getting SOOO sick of this bullshit debate and I am finally going to let it all hang out here because some of us are not using our brains. Some folks here just love political polarization, so if some right wing nut says that the "sky is blue" you will deny it because the wing nut can't possibly be right. This vaccine issue is the perfect example. Some of you think that science is a religion and you worship it as such. You take small pieces of information out of context and you quote it -- just like the idiot bible thumpers.
ReplyDeleteSo first, if your kid is vaccinated... then that's it-- what the f@#$ are you worried about??? Do you believe that the vaccination confers immunity or NOT???? Why do you care if someone else is not vaccinated? Do you understand science or NOT?? We are NOT herd animals.
All of you liberal "pro-vaccinators under any and all conditions" -- do you understand the difference between a disease like polio and a disease like measles????
For decades, US children had measles for a week and then had a natural immunity for life. PLEASE do not tell me about the small percentage of those who suffered more serious effects of this disease in the US. WHY?? not because I don't personally care for them, but because THEY ARE A SMALL MINORITY and therefore we do not make scientific rules based on such a small percentage of the data... get it??
BUT the piece that you brilliant bleeding hearts refuse to see is that this vaccination craze is being driven by BIG PHARMA. It is NOT being driven by modern science -- you know exploration for the purpose of knowledge, not rigged experiments for the purpose of commerce-- of selling the idea to the whores that make up our state assemblies that un-necessary vaccinations should be mandated. WAKE UP!!
In places, regions, nations where there is poor nutrition, poor sanitation,etc. certain diseases will be more prevalent and more deadly. THAT IS WHERE THE VACCINATIONS WILL BE MORE NECESSARY. Beyond that, we should all have the freedom to determine which vaccinations we think are right for ourselves and our children. But some of us here think that BIG PHARMA should decide...
Science approaches problems on a case by case basis. Unfortunately, some of us want iron clad general rules -- you know -- like religion. It's time to wake up and think for yourselves....
Very well said.
DeleteIt is herd thinking that dictates the one size fits all mentality.
The problem is that those who vaccinated do NOT believe that their kid is immune. MANY of those who got measles (was it really measles?) were vaccinated.
Wow, that was quite a diatribe. Please do some actual reading about immunity. You tell us that WE don't understand science, then you clearly demonstrate your misunderstanding of immunology.
DeleteThe reason herd immunity is so important is that some people can't get vaccinated, some people are too young to get vaccinated, and immunization fails for a very, very small percentage of people.
Who ever told you science approaches problems on a case-by-case basis? Science is generally based on probabilities, not individual cases. Perhaps you are confusing "science" with "doctors" (although I'm sure you don't avail yourself to any doctors, considering they are in league with Big Pharma!!!)
And, for the last freaking time..."Big Pharma!!!" has a lot more to gain from people getting these diseases than from people getting a few shots. The profits from vaccines are beyond miniscule compared with profits from pretty much every other drug they market and sell.
"MANY of those who got measles (was it really measles?) were vaccinated."
DeleteIt's not the number of people who got the measles, it's the number of vaccinated people vs. the number of unvaccinated people who got the measles. The number of vaccinated people at Disney that day outnumbered the number of unvaccinated people by a huge factor.
In other words, if there were 10 unvaccinated people at Disney, and 5 got the measles, that's 50% of them. If there were 10,000 unvaccinated people at Disney and 10 got the measles, that's .1%. (I'm making up these numbers, but you should get the point).
There is a very small percentage of those who get the vaccine who won't obtain full immunity. That (alone with the fact that some people can't get the vaccine and some are too young) is another reason why herd immunity is so important.
"(was it really measles?)"
Are you serious?
I had mumps as a child. I was miserable for a week or so and then I recovered. No big deal, right?
DeleteWell, unfortunately, my father caught it from me and ended up in the hospital. A priest from our church caught it from a parishioner and nearly died. No big deal, right?
A former boss of mine had polio as a child. She used a crutch for most of her life, and now must use a wheelchair because the constant physical stress took such a toll on her body for years. No big deal, right?
I'm an interpreter for the deaf, and some of the older members of the deaf community are deaf or deaf-blind because of measles, meningitis or other preventable diseases. No big deal, right?
I was a child when many of the vaccines were developed. I caught some of the childhood diseases prior to that time and received vaccines for others. I don't worry about my own health. I DO, however, worry about the possibility of babies or people with compromised immune systems (like my sister and close friend who both dealt with cancer) being exposed to measles by people who chose to ignore the benefits of science.
Ok. Using your logic, 11:51 : your father, the priest, and a few more people got sicker than most people. Big deal. (To you, yes!) What about all the THOUSANDS of kids who have reactions to vaccinations? They have no right to health? What about the numerous people who have died after getting the shots? Now they are linking vaccinations to SIDS, for crying out loud! Tell your story to a mother who has a child that was healthy and happy and ahead-of-the-curve before betting their 7 two-year-shots and now are autistic/brain damaged/ whatever you want to call it. Tell that to the mother who had a happy baby until his 5 four-months shots, and a day later is dead of 'SIDS' after being listless and cranky for the time after the shots!
DeleteREAD THE PACKAGE INSERTS TO THE VACCINES, for crying out loud!
Conscious at last,
DeleteYou don't belong here - you make sense. That is not accepted here and you didn't write Sarah Palin in there somewhere.
Talk about fear mongering, 12:30.
DeleteThere is no scientific evidence that vaccines cause autism.
There is no scientific evidence that vaccines cause SIDS.
There is correlation without causation.
There is confirmation bias.
There are recall problems.
There are people who think their google research and gut feelings are more valid than the expertise of doctors and immunologists.
There are nebulous and unsubstantiated numbers about serious vaccine reactions.
There are people who will data mine and inflate and outright lie to prey on the fears of parents.
And there are people who prey on the emotions of others to get their point across.
I am glad to have gotten more discussion going, but please don't confuse things I've said with others. Nowhere did I discuss the Disneyland situation. The fact that a small percentage of those who are vaccinated do not get the immunity is an interesting issue to look at, but it was not my point.
ReplyDeleteto 11:59 AM -- I made a clear distinction between diseases like polio and those like measles and mumps. I, too, was a child when many of the early vaccines were developed.
The reasons given by government and the pharmaceutical interests, a generation later, for chicken pox vaccines and the like was SO THAT WORKERS WOULD NOT HAVE TO CARE FOR THEIR OWN KIDS FOR OVER A WEEK and miss work. These newer vaccines (like MMR, chicken pox) were developed a generation later when more women were in the work force. They were commercially driven "discoveries," thus unlike earlier vaccines for polio, small pox, etc.-which were far more dangerous diseases. Moreover, even the drug companies readily admit that the new flu vaccines are not always effective because the strains keep changing.
About science and big numbers... If a "pure" scientist, driven by knowledge, not commerce, faces a case or a few pieces of data that violate the general rule -- they will explore that. You know...LIKE WHEN AN "O" RING FAILS... However, pure scientists would not suggest making general rules from small amounts of data. So back to 11:59 - I don't doubt your story, but are you suggesting that because a small percentage of folks had severe reactions that the ENTIRE POPULATION must be vaccinated?
How about AIDS -- does anyone believe that the entire population must be required to be vaccinated against that? Silly right? Especially since a closer examination of the nature of the illness by some scientists found that there were other ways to contain it.
This debate is, in part, fear driven. And when fear controls thinking, we usually end up making poor decisions.
Just for the record, if it is not obvious - I am NOT against vaccinations per se, I am vaccinated and so were the(now adult) kids...But I do not go along with every flavor of the month vaccination..
I'm glad my children were able to be vaccinated for chicken pox. They won't be at risk for shingles when they get older. As soon as I'm able, I'll be getting the shingles vaccine.
DeleteAIDS isn't measles. Measles is an incredibly contagious airborn disease. It lingers for hours in the air after an infected person leaves. And people can spread it before they even know they have it. Please tell me other ways that measles can be contained?
Disneyland is a microcosm.
DeleteOK, now things are getting funny...
ReplyDelete11:47 doesn't think that pharmaceutical companies profit very much from providing vaccines and 1:12 thinks that measles is more serious than AIDS.... this, my friends, is what happens when fear takes over.... the logic is jaw dropping
I am the same person. Are you being purposefully disingenuous or are you just having trouble reading what I wrote.
DeleteWhat I wrote was that vaccines make up a very small proportion of pharma profits. This was in the context of the fact that pharma. companies would make a ton more money on the drugs used to treat these diseases.
As far as measles go, what I wrote was that measles spread differently and more readily than AIDS. When you say that we've figured out other ways to contain AIDS so we don't need to vaccinate for it, I asked how that relates to a highly contagious airborne virus. From an individual standpoint, AIDS is "more serious" than measles. From a public health standpoint (which is what we are talking about here), measles is "more serious" than AIDS in that it can affect so many more people so much easier.
No actually... you said "the profits from vaccines are beyond miniscule... compared to other drugs they market." OK lets look at that point. The per unit profit on vaccines may be smaller than say on Viagra or Nexium, but if a vaccine is MANDATED by the state, they make up the profit in volume. Please. let's use our brains here. That's why vaccines are different from any other product the Drug companies make. They can use the state to FORCE people, for generations, to put that product into their bloodstreams. In fact, the government can force people in the military to take vaccinations that were not fully tested. There was a LOT of protest about this by Iraq war vets. So your point about low per unit profits is silly. Please...
ReplyDeleteNow in case you are not aware, a generation of millions of people, much of the U.S. baby boom generation, had measles, survived just fine and now are immune. I hope you can integrate that information into your awareness. You are making a frightening case about an illness that was not serious for most people for about 70 years. BUT, after the mandated vaccinations started, how do you think that affected the mutations and development of the measles? Think about it.
I am not being disingenuous at all. You have encountered someone who takes what you say VERY seriously and is holding it up for honest and rigorous examination instead of shaking my head in fearful hysteria. I would call that a respectful response.
I will never understand parents who want their kids to get sick and die from a disease we have a cure for. The same parents that are alive and were able to have children because of vaccinations.
ReplyDeleteWhat are you talking about? Who said anything like that??? First, vaccinations are NOT cures, they can be preventative. I hope you know the difference. Secondly, as others have stated, Polio can be deadly or serious... but chickenpox is not a deadly disease. Very few of the recent vaccine mandates are for serious illnesses.
Deletethese graphs from over two hundred years of statistics might help some.
ReplyDeletehttps://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/graphs/
CBS News Report Mercury and Autism:
ReplyDeletehttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xen8LU8TyBs
Peanut allergies have increased dramatically since the introduction of peanut oil adjuvants in vaccines: http://www.thedoctorwithin.com/allergies/vaccines-and-the-peanut-allergy-epidemic/
ReplyDeleteGryphen, I've followed you for years. But as a fellow free-thinker, I disagree with your stance on vaccination. Vaccine injury is real! Billions of dollars have been paid to families with vaccine injured children via the government's Vaccine Injury fund. Pharmaceutical companies were protected from liability by congress under President Reagan. What other company is completely immune when their product is found to have caused injury? The US Supreme Court has labeled vaccines as "unavoidably unsafe". I really believe that if you would do more research, you'd find just how shockingly little evidence there is of vaccine safety. This is not a conservative/liberal issue. Many liberals are opposed to mandatory vaccination and there are many conservatives who are calling for forced vaccination. Opposition to vaccines began in England with the forced vaccination with Jenner's smallpox vaccine that killed many people, this did not come about because of Jenny McCarthy. Please do your research before you jump on the bus with the rest of them! http://www.collective-evolution.com/2015/01/29/neuroscientist-makes-it-clear-why-aluminum-adjuvants-should-not-be-in-vaccines/
ReplyDeleteThere has never been a study of unvaccinated vs. vaccinated children. Please read everything presented before you label all parents who choose to question the safety of the current vaccine schedule as "anti-vaxxer" nut jobs. http://www.fourteenstudies.org/ourstudies.html
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