Friday, February 19, 2016

Question of Ted Cruz's eligibility to be President headed to court. Awkward!

Courtesy of Vox:  

The Circuit Court of Cook County in Chicago has agreed to hear a lawsuit on Sen. Ted Cruz's eligibility for president — virtually ensuring that the issue dominates the news in the run-up to the South Carolina primary. 

Cruz was born in Canada to a US citizen mother and a noncitizen father. The Constitution requires presidents be "natural-born citizens," but what exactly that requires hasn't been settled in court.


When this question initially came up, the conventional wisdom among constitutional lawyers was that it was a non-issue: Cruz was obviously eligible. But as the debate has heated up among candidates (with Donald Trump, in particular, fanning the flames), it's also begun to heat up among constitutional law scholars.


The problem is the Constitution doesn't define "natural born Citizen." Neither does any current law. And no one has ever brought a court case to decisively settle the question as a matter of US law.

Until now that is. 

Okay we all have to admit at this point that this is the MOST entertaining presidential election in perhaps the entire history of the country.

Just when you think it just can't get any crazier, it does!

83 comments:

  1. Anonymous12:06 PM

    OT-http://www.politicususa.com/2016/02/19/republicans-urge-members-commit-akin-voter-fraud-nevada.html

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    1. Anonymous1:36 PM

      http://www.politicususa.com/2016/02/19/nevada-democratic-party-vows-prosecute-republican-commits-voter-fraud.html

      ANSWER: But IS that not for a court to decide? It will be very interesting.

      Delete
  2. Anonymous12:09 PM

    The question for me is: Can you be a natural-born citizen of two countries? Cruz might be eligible to obtain U.S. citizenship through his mother, if his parents took the right steps, but I'd say he's a natural-born citizen of Canada. Sorry, Ted. And sorry, Canada.

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    1. Anonymous3:32 PM

      I have always believed "natural-born citizen" meant that the person was born in the United States, period.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous10:47 PM

      The Constitution may not be clear but Immigration law is. If Ted's mother was a Canadian citizen at the time of his birth, then he is not natural born. There was no dual citizenship in 1970. To be a Canadian citizen, she would have had to renounce her US citizenship. Even if she was an American citizen at the time of his birth, she would still have to satisfy residency requirements before conferring US citizenship upon her son. Add to that the fact that residency requirements are different for legitimate and illegitimate births. I say this because there are questions about his parents being married or not at the time of his birth. The answer is not in the Constitution. It is defined specifically under this country's settled immigration law. Ted Cruz is a liar. I have no doubt he would lie about this.

      Delete
  3. Anonymous12:11 PM

    The more pressing issue is whether or not Ted Cruz's mother was still a United States citizen at the time of his birth. If she was, his birth should have been registered at a U.S. embassy or consulate.

    So far, he hasn't shown any documents to indicate that this ever took place, and my gut feeling is that there's a good reason for that.

    If he was not born a citizen, then unless he was later naturalized, he still is not a citizen and certainly should not be running for President and perhaps should have never been able to become a Senator from Texas.

    It would be a riot to see him get deported to Canada--apologies to all my Canadian friends if they have to take him back.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Anonymous 12:11 PM wrote: It would be a riot to see him get deported to Canada …

      But didn't he just get through renouncing his Canadian citizenship?

      … apologies to all my Canadian friends if they have to take him back.

      No thanks!!! :-)

      Delete
    2. Anonymous1:11 PM

      Yes. Ted Cruz' mother's citizenship should be proven. His mother was born a US citizen but she may have renounced it since Canada didn't allow dual citizenship at the time Ted was born and there's documentation she was on Canada's voter roles at some point. It doesn't sound like those bringing the lawsuit are aware of the issue.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous1:23 PM

      Ted @ 1:07

      There appears to be a mechanism for resuming one's Canadian citizenship as long as it wasn't previously revoked.

      For all who are interested, I came across that info while browsing the site cbiftrumpwins.com, a site encouraging Americans to relocate to Cape Breton Island, Nova Scotia if Trump should win in November. It looks like a beautiful place to live, so I'm definitely thinking about it if the worst should happen. So far, no sister site for if Cruz wins. Maybe they know something we don't.

      Delete
    4. Anonymous 1:23 PM wrote: resuming one's Canadian citizenship

      A friend of mine, decades ago, gave up her Canadian citizenship so she could marry an American serviceman. Many years later, as a widow, she was able to obtain Canadian citizenship again—though it was a hassle.

      Delete
    5. Anonymous2:47 PM

      Hey 1:23 I'm looking at Cape Breton too! Although I can't help but feel like they are just punking us with their website. It would be up to the Government to allow us to stay...

      Delete
    6. Anonymous3:10 PM

      1:46 I was a British citizen, married an American serviceman and did not have to renounce my citizenship. Two of our children were born overseas, on air force bases and are American citizens, since a base is considered US territory.One nursery had a sign "Made in England, by Americans" The other had "Made in Germany by Americans"

      Delete
    7. Anonymous4:54 PM

      Cape Breton is a genuinely lovely place and the people are very community minded and very connected with the world in general.

      Delete
    8. It needs to go beyond that.

      She could have registered him after she renounced her U.S. citizenship to become a Canadian citizen and be eligible to vote.

      That's what we need to see.

      In addition to his papers we need hers too.

      (I've got friends in Costa Rica and El Salvador. Cost of living is lower so my pension will go a lot farther.)

      Delete
    9. Anonymous5:30 PM

      Anonymous1:11 PM

      She CANNOT have been a Canadian citizen at the time of his birth. She had only been in Canada 3 years. Even then it required being a legal immigrant for five years BEFORE applying for Canadian citizenship. What IS possible is that Canada did not allow dual citizenship at the time and she may not have filed the proper paperwork to make him a "natural born citizen of the US". Texas never asked for any documents verifying thta he was allowed to run for the senate.

      Delete
    10. Anonymous5:36 PM

      El Salvador is where women are being jailed for miscarriages or stillbirths. Boycott that hellhole!

      Delete
  4. Anonymous12:19 PM

    What I have read if that both parents are on election documents innCabada, which means they became Canadian citizens. In any case, there are all sorts of documents that need to be filed when an American gives birth abroad. I think little Raphael is screwed.

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    1. I hope so.

      And it will be WONDERFUL entertainment when it hits the media.

      I suspect he will withdraw before it gets really hot and legal. There may be a quiet plea deal, like if you withdraw we'll give you a green card and citizenship and you can remain a senator but you can't run for president or some such. No prosecution for being an undocumented alien or trying to usurp the Constitution.

      Delete
    2. Maple7:31 PM

      @12:19: Being on the voter rolls only meant that an election representative came to your house and asked whoever answered the door some questions about the the residents. If the cleaning lady or the baby sitter answered that Mr. and Mrs. Cruz were Canadian citizens (without knowing for sure) then Mr. and Mrs. Cruz's names got onto the voter roll for that riding (district). It does not mean that when they got to the polling booth that they were allowed to vote. However, I understand that Cruz Sr. did become a Cdn citizen in 1968 (that may or may not be true) so it wouldn't be surprising if Mrs. Cruz also took out Cdn citizenship at some time. Dual citizenship was not allowed until 1977.
      Curiouser and curiouser, and Teddy is not providing any documentation. However, he will certainly have to in court......

      Delete
  5. Very interesting, Anon @ 12:11. I had not considered this before. It seems you are likely correct. I would think that there would be records with the Embassy and it's counterpart here in the US if she had done that.

    https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/abroad/events-and-records/birth.html

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    1. Anonymous2:21 PM

      At the very least Ted Cruz would be an anchor baby

      Delete
  6. Caroll Thompson12:36 PM

    Cruz is a natural born Canadian. I don't think he is eligible to run for President. So, I am very glad to see how the court rules.

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  7. Anonymous12:39 PM

    Add in the fact that Scalia is dead (yes, still dead) and this may not be solvable by SCOTUS. Then what?

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    1. Anonymous12:52 PM

      Would be an issue only if the decision is 4-4.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous12:53 PM

      For a 4-4 decision of the SCOTUS, any lower court ruling would stand.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous1:49 PM

      The lower court ruling would only be valid for the jurisdiction of that court (not sure if it's in state or federal court). It wouldn't be binding on other jurisdictions.

      Delete
  8. Anonymous12:46 PM

    It will be thrown out just like the birther lawsuits were against President Obama because the plaintiffs don't have "standing".

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    1. Anonymous3:12 PM

      President Obama's mother never voted in another country.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous3:57 PM

      As much as I detest the weasel Cruz,the reports about his mother show her name on a list of residents that was used by the election committees to determine addresses,etc.It was not a list of who voted. If a list shows up that says she voted,she either became a citizen,or more likely,committed voter fraud. In any case,no evidence would be given if the case was not heard because the parties had no standing to bring it.From what I understood from the birther cases that were filed,it would require the plaintiff to show how they could be harmed by it.In that case,it would seem that another candidate should file.

      Delete
    3. Not necessarily.

      Obama was born in Hawaii and that wasn't in question.

      Cruz was born in Canada and not on a military base or by military parents stationed abroad like McCain.

      So the exceptions regarding natural born citizens may not apply to Cruz.

      I think they have a legitimate beef and it is a question that will be landmark and set precedence.

      Gee, too bad we only have 8 justices on the Supreme Court right now.

      Delete
  9. Anonymous12:47 PM

    Gryphen I think you're going to want to read this:


    Yahoo:
    Trump is accused of financially threatening woman during secret deposition

    Michael Isikoff
    February 19, 2016

    Real estate mogul and TV star Donald Trump appears at a press conference in 2005 to announce Trump University, which offered real estate seminars for business professionals. (Photo: Dan Herrick/KPA/ZUMA Press)

    Donald Trump, embroiled in a long-running legal battle with former students of his defunct Trump University, has been accused in recently filed court papers of threatening to financially ruin the woman who is a lead plaintiff in the suit. Trump’s comments, according to the filings, came in a secret deposition he gave just two months ago, on Dec. 10 — the same day he was making international headlines over his pledge to ban Muslim immigrants from the country.

    The accusation was made in a motion by the woman — Tarla Makaeff, a California yoga instructor — to withdraw as lead plaintiff, asserting she has been “put through the wringer” by Trump and his lawyers and forced to “suffer daily with the fear that she could be bankrupted by Trump.”

    Exactly what Trump said in his December deposition is unclear. The transcript is sealed and the excerpt cited by Makaeff’s lawyers was blacked out in the copy of the filing obtained by Yahoo News. The motion in support of Makaeff’s effort to back out of the suit claims she needs protection “from further retaliation” by the billionaire, who is leading in the polls for the Republican nomination for president.

    Read complete post at:
    https://www.yahoo.com/politics/trump-is-accused-of-financially-threatening-woman-170253552.html?nhp=1

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    1. Anonymous1:50 PM

      I can't remember how long ago this happened, but your post reminded me of a time a few years back when Trump made the news for being involved in a deposition where one of the attys needed a break to breastfeed (or maybe pump, not sure). He called her disgusting, gross, etc and it was a big hoopla at the time. I just wonder if any candidate opposing him has considered raising this issue again, especially in light of his never ending battles against Megyn Kelly.

      Delete
  10. Anonymous12:52 PM

    I disagree Gryphen . It is not obvious that he is qualified to be President, in fact, he may not be qualified to be a US Senator.
    If his Mom was a Canadian citizen ( and it seems she was voting as a Canadian citizen before Rafael's birth )at his birth then he is not even a USA citizen in any way, shape, or form. Rafael Cruz could very well e an illegal alien,

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    1. Anonymous1:14 PM

      He may also be an alien, plain and simple.
      Beaglemom

      Delete
    2. Cruz IS eligible to be a senator. It is only the presidency/vice presidency which have the citizenship rule. So, Texas, he's still yours for that.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous2:01 PM

      @ Gammyjill
      If he is not a US citizen then he cannot be a US Senator either.

      Delete
    4. No, anon@201, there is NO natural born citizenship requirement for any elected office other than POTUS or VPOTUS. Check your Constitution.

      Delete
    5. Anonymous2:45 PM

      Article I, Section 3 of the Constitution states: No Person shall be a Senator who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty Years, and been nine Years a Citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State for which he shall be chosen."

      There's no natural born requirement to be a Senator, but one MUST be a citizen of the U.S. to qualify.

      Delete
    6. Anonymous3:08 PM

      Hmm. If Cruz isn't an American citizen, and he renounced his Canadian citizenship, is he a Man Without A Country.

      Delete
    7. Anonymous3:54 PM

      @ Gammyjill
      If Rafael isn't an American citizen then he can't be in the country let alone be a US Senator.

      Delete
    8. I think you have to be a U.S. citizen to hold office.

      President is the only office requiring natural born.

      So if Cruz isn't a citizen of the U.S. AT ALL, then no, he can't be a senator either.

      Delete
    9. Anonymous5:29 PM

      If Cruz isn't an American citizen, and he renounced his Canadian citizenship, is he a Man Without A Country.
      -------------
      Goodie, let's deport him to Cuba!!! He can find his roots.

      Delete
  11. Anonymous1:16 PM

    Republicans, please meet Karma. Karma, please bite them in the ass.

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  12. Dale Metz1:19 PM

    The moderators at C4pee have gone AWOL.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Anonymous2:02 PM

      I guess their SarahPac checks must be late.

      Delete
  13. After the past eight years, I find this turn of events to be delicious. It's especially tasty that it is happening to a teabagger.

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  14. Anonymous1:47 PM

    TEXAS>
    http://thinkprogress.org/health/2016/02/19/3751333/texas-sludge-water/

    ReplyDelete
  15. Anonymous1:47 PM

    The article that I read says that ted's mother was a Canadian citizen and Cuban father. The mother was born in usa moved to Canada, gave up us citizenship to live in Canada and married her Cuban man and vote in the Canadian elections. The census and voting records show that she is a Canadian citizen. Father, a Cuban. ted is not a natural born usa citizen and should not be in the us congress. He acts like he hates America.

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  16. Anonymous1:51 PM

    The best part is it is the Republicans brining the lawsuit. Democratic are clean on this.

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    1. Anonymous3:06 PM

      I meant Democrats are clean on this.

      Delete
  17. Texas Cruz Hater For Life1:52 PM

    I am sooo happy to see this finally being addressed by the courts. I despise Ted Cruz with every fibre of my being!

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  18. Anonymous1:54 PM

    Ted's family has a troubled immigration history. His father, Rafael fought alongside Castro. Rafael came to the US on a student visa. (This was years before there was special status for Cubans fleeing communist Cuba). Rafael violated his student visa by not leaving the US when the visa expired. Rafael married an American citizen. Rafael and his wife went to Canada because there was an oil and gas boom, in other words, for economic opportunity. Did Rafael and his wife apply for Canadian immigration status or did they simply cross the border? While in Canada Rafael became a Canadian citizen. Did his wife become a Canadian citizen ? That's a crucial question because their names appear to be on voting records. Ted was born in Canada. No one has shown any documentation that his birth was registered with the US Embassy or the State Department. Several years after Ted was born the family moved back to Texas. What did they say at the US border? That's crucial, but confidential information. Rafael and his wife divorced. Rafael only became a US citizen a few years ago, when Ted began his political career. There are many questions. All of this highlights the hypocrisy of Ted's position on immigration.

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    1. Anonymous2:28 PM

      A look at Ted's passport would answer some of this.

      Most likely, Ted's parents applied for his US passport at the time they moved to the US.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous2:29 PM

      Ted should run for president of Cuba

      Delete
    3. Anonymous5:31 PM

      Sounds like Ted is an illegal alien, he should be deported immediately, since that is he own stance on the issue, no exceptions permitted.


      Delete
    4. Anonymous5:44 PM

      Ted's parents would have had no particular reason to apply for a passport for little Ted just because they were moving back to the U.S. Neither Canadians nor Americans needed passports to cross the border either way until well after 9/11. The Cruz's could have driven up to the U.S. border agent, flashed their Canadian driver's licenses, fibbed that they were going on vacation, and then stayed. All they would have needed for Ted was his Canadian birth certificate, if the agent even bothered to ask about a child. Flying would have been equally simple.

      I like this scenario. Let's hope Ted's mother did lose her U.S. citizenship and they got back into the U.S. under false pretenses. Then Ted would indeed be an illegal immigrant. Too wonderful!

      Delete
    5. Anonymous4:10 AM

      Neither Canadians nor Americans needed passports to cross the border either way until well after 9/11.
      ------------
      This is true, we actually have a "border" between Detroit and Windsor-the river, but I remember crossing other places where there was just a shed and you could just walk over the border.

      I would just love it if they find out Ted has been an illegal alien all these years. After all he lied about his father leaving Cuba, in fact he lies all the time.

      Delete
  19. Anonymous2:14 PM

    lol O/T:

    SAY WHAT?
    Bristol Palin’s surprising response to Obama’s fight against abstinence-only education

    http://fusion.net/story/270614/bristol-palin-obama-cutting-abstinence-only-education/

    ReplyDelete
  20. Anonymous2:18 PM

    JEBS! OUT!>
    https://theamericanindependent.wordpress.com/2016/02/18/mr-low-energy-is-out-of-money-bush-campaign-to-officially-call-it-quits-on-sunday/

    ReplyDelete
  21. Anonymous2:19 PM

    I don't think the plaintiff Lawrence Joyce has standing to sue because he doesn't face harm tha's any different from every other American citizen. Somewhere in its progress through the courts, a judge, maybe it'll be the Supreme Court will rule he doesn't have standing.

    I think the only people who have standing to sue are the other Republican primary candidates of the 2016 election and the Democratic candidate in the general election if Cruz is selected as the Republican candidate.

    Maybe if Cruz was as well-liked in the senate as John McCain, the Senate would pass a resolution recognizing him as a natural born citizen like they did for John Sidney in 2008.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Anonymous2:26 PM

    O/T On HP there's a clip of a little girl crying her heart out because Barack Obama won't be President anymore. I feel her pain.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Anonymous2:26 PM

    Not along ago, Illinois pharmacist and attorney Lawrence Joyce began to realize his country and his political party were facing what he considered to be a nightmare.

    Concerns about the eligibility for the presidency of Republican candidate Sen. Ted Cruz, Texas, who was born in Canada to a Cuban father and an American mother, were raised by rival Donald Trump. Though they may at first have seemed laughable, the legal case against Cruz was one Joyce, a Ben Carson supporter, thought he understood.

    The Constitution requires the president to be a "natural born" citizen of the United States, and as far as Joyce is concerned, Cruz isn't one.

    And Cruz, who won the Iowa caucuses earlier this month, appeared to be rising in the polls. What would happen if Cruz won the Republican nomination, then was somehow disqualified from the general election?

    So Joyce took action, filing a complaint with the Illinois State Board of Elections to get Cruz's name off the primary ballot in the state. The board dismissed the claim after a hearing officer found, as Cruz argues, that the "Candidate is a 'natural born citizen' by virtue of having been born in Canada to a United States citizen, thereby not causing the Candidate to have to take any steps or undergo a naturalization process to become a United States citizen."

    Joyce, not satisfied, filed an appeal in Cook County Circuit Court.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-ted-cruz-lawsuit-20160219-story.html

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    1. Anonymous5:36 PM

      I don't hold out much hope for this case because I don't think Joyce spent any time gathering evidence/information for example about Cruz's mother's citizenship to present to the court.

      I think there has been more evidence present on this blog, however not all is lost since there are more cases in other states.

      If Trump would put his money where he mouth is for once instead of his empty threats, he has the resources to get information.

      Delete
  24. Anonymous2:48 PM

    I may be called evil, a troll or even worse. Who knows, perhaps Gryphen will even block my comment. But I'm going to say this anyway. I am a lifelong Texan and Democrat. I HATE Ted Cruz. I wish he and his family (even the daughters) every bit of unhappiness, ill health and even death asap. This man is a dangerous demagogue, to say the least. He is far worse than Sarah Palin. I relish the day when he leaves this planet & I hope that the process is relatively slow and incredibly painful. I'm sorry if I've offended anyone by this post, but I'm just expressing how I really feel.

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    1. Anonymous2:53 PM

      Why is it important for you to express yourself anonymously and cruelly here?

      Delete
    2. Anonymous3:08 PM

      If you had just left out his family in your excusable rant I'd agree with the rest

      Delete
    3. Anonymous3:16 PM

      I couldn't agree more.

      Delete
    4. Anonymous3:36 PM

      I still can't wrap my brain around the fact his wife allowed him to put their 2 young daughters in a political ad. Seems to me Cruz is all about Cruz, I've never known him to help anybody, and it gets under my skin that he shut down Government over the Affordable Care Act causing the Country to lose Billions, reciting Dr Seuss, let him do that shit in Canada. He's a smarmy SOB.

      Delete
    5. Anonymous3:44 PM

      @2:53, how is anon 2:48 any different than what is expressed here regarding the Palins, all of them, any of them day in and day out????

      Delete
    6. Anonymous4:40 PM

      Even hitler was a cute little baby at one point intime. Fuck cruz!

      Delete
    7. Anonymous6:03 PM

      I couldn't agree more! Thank you for speaking your mind. I appreciate your strong feelings, I share them.

      Delete
    8. Anonymous10:08 PM

      2:53 PM
      Because we are a VOTING public.
      What part of that do you not get??

      Delete
  25. Anonymous2:52 PM

    This does not bode well for Ted. The suit is in Cook County. The court will easily decide that he's not a natural born citizen. It will be fast tracked to SCOTUS and they will decide 4-4. The lower court decision will stand.

    O/T: RIP Harper Lee.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Anonymous3:03 PM

    Ted is in competition with Mitch McConnell for the ugliest mouth.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Anonymous4:03 PM

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/ted-cruz-mother-canadian-voter-list

    ReplyDelete
  28. Anita Winecooler4:35 PM

    Natural born as opposed to invitro? Thing is, I don't think Cruz was born, don't reptiles hatch? You're spot on, just when you think you've seen crazy, it just gets crazier. Come on, Trump, send your team of birthers to Canada and sniff around.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Oh BOY!.

    This is going to go before the Supreme Court.

    And there are only 4 justices.

    Do the Republicans want to take a chance on it being settled by the lower court if the Supreme Court ties?

    Or would they rather confirm Obama's nominee before it gets to the Supremes and take a chance on a 5-4 in their favor?

    ReplyDelete
  30. Anonymous8:55 PM

    There was an attorney in Cruz's neck of the woods that filed suit too. Anyone know what came of that?

    ReplyDelete
  31. Anonymous9:11 PM

    One thing about this whole eligibility to be President for Cruz has puzzled me. Mr. Cruz has studied law, he has studied the constitution. He surely has learned about the extra standard of being a "natural born" citizen (versus just a citizen) to be able to hold the job. Why did he not have this issue looked into and prior to all the resources thrown at a campaign by both his family and his supporters? It makes no sense to me that he did not have this ruled on prior to accepting his first dollar in donations. Because if it turns out he can't hold the office, all that money is just down the drain!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous3:19 AM

      Wouldn't it be fraud too? Persecution worthy (class-action by we the people who are American citizens?

      dowl

      Delete
    2. Anonymous3:57 AM

      First, he picks and chooses which parts of the Constitution pertain to him.

      Second, God told him he is going to be president and God doesn't care about any old rules and regulations.

      Delete
  32. It must really suck to be a republican nowadays.

    Good.

    ReplyDelete

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