Courtesy of Politico:
Remarking upon Sanders' frequent invocation of his rural state of Vermont in defending his past votes (though he does currently support an amendment to the liability bill in the Senate) Clinton noted that most of the guns used to commit crimes in New York come from elsewhere — many of them from neighboring Vermont.
“Most of the guns that are used in crimes and violence and killings in New York come from out of state. And the state that has the highest per capita number of those guns that end up committing crimes in New York come from Vermont," Clinton said during a gun violence panel in Port Washington, accompanied by family members of people who were killed in mass shootings in recent years.
"So this is not, 'Oh, you know, I live in a rural state, we don’t have these problems,'" she continued. "This is, you know what? It’s easy to cross borders. Criminals, domestic abusers, traffickers, people who are dangerously mentally ill — they cross borders, too. And sometimes they do it to get the guns they use. This has to become a voting issue for those of us who want to save lives.”
While Clinton is correct that Vermont has the "highest per capita" number of guns that find their way into New York, to be honest in 2014 that number was only 55, which made Vermont number 14 of the 15 top states where guns come from that find their way into the hands of New York criminals.
A little disingenuous to be sure.
However I am with Hillary as far as making gun control a central feature of her presidential campaign.
I think, considering the certainty of intense NRA funded blowback on that issue, it is a gutsy move, and also furthers President Obama's agenda, which I like.
So where is all the gun violence in Vermont since that is apparently where all the guns are coming from?
ReplyDeleteUtterly irrelevant. This is about guns being bought in Vermont and brought in NY.
DeleteDon't get all logical about guns. According to some, that is a sign of mental illness.
DeleteThe OP's point was a leap of logic. Nobody claims the guns are being used for violence in Vermont. They are being bought in Vermont because of lax gun laws and brought into NY.
Delete8:06 and 5:19 seem to be missing both the point and any logic twodux.
DeleteSo 8:06, are New Yorkers more prone to using gun violence to solve their problems? Why is it that Vermont, where people can get all the guns they want, has a lower gun violence rate than New York, where people have to surreptitiously import guns? Are Vermonters just a better class of humans than New Yorkers? Does ready access to guns make people less likely to use them?
DeleteThere are less people in VT than NY.
DeleteDo you understand the concept of "per capita"?
DeleteWhen you adjust the murder/non negligent homicide rate to a per 100,000 number, New York has a rate twice as high as Vermont.
In both 2013 and 2014, Vermont's murder/non negligent homicide rate was 1.6 per 100,000 people both of those years. In New York meanwhile, that rate was 3.3 per 100,000 in 2013 and 3.1 in 2014.
Then go to total violent crime.......
In Vermont, which has liberal gun laws, the 2013 rate was 123.6 per 100,000 and the 2014 rate was 99.3.
In New York with strict gun laws, the total violent crime was 393.8 per 100,000 in 2013 and 381.8 in 2014.
That is 3 times the violent crime in New York than in Vermont. And Gryphen likes to say that having access to guns doesn't reduce crime.
By the way, those numbers came from the FBI uniform crime reports.
Deletehttps://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/table-4
No one is arguing that VT has violence than NY. You missed the point completely, TD. You seem to have no understanding of the stresses of high population centers. Any death is one too many.
DeleteTake the gloves off, Hillary! She is by far the most qualified person running for president.
ReplyDeleteFor sure! And yours is the best qualified assessment. Cheers!
DeleteShe'll be taking the gloves off very soon. Sanders wants to play in the dirt, his amateur campaign team think he's losing because he's not being abusive or lying enough. Ha! It's hard to believe those people are dumb enough to think that's the way to the White House.
DeleteHe is behind (not necessarily losing) because this election is stacked for Hillary. The fact that he is still so close is because Hillary's negatives are so high. A majority of people just don't like Hillary and won't vote for her.
DeleteStacked in what way, exactly. Accusations like that demand proof.
DeleteAnd how is being behind any different from losing? He is behind. He is losing.
"Take the gloves off"
DeleteShe's tried. Several times. Each time Sanders gets the best of her and shuts her down. Auto bailout attack: shut down. Sanders/Sandy Hook: shut down. Disqualify him. Defeat him. Unify later: Shut down. Try to show him up on the subway: Metrocard fail. Try to show him up with black people: "Colored people Time" fail. Clinton has run as dirty a campaign as in 2008 and like with Obama, she can't get anything to stick to Sanders. The more people learn about Sanders, the more they like him.
10:22 - Not hardly! He's losing support all over the place. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/12/bernie-sanders-betrayed-hillary-clinton-attacks
Deletehttps://www.reddit.com/r/hillaryclinton/comments/4dlygc/the_vermontnew_york_gun_link/
ReplyDeletehttps://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/2682296/Opiate-Report-Final-Version.pdf
Will not go to Reddit. Sorry.
DeleteThis then On the Introduction of the Stop Illegal Trafficking in Firearms Act of 2016>
Deletehttp://www.leahy.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/021116%20FINAL%20straw%20purchasing%20intro%20stmt%20-%20LONG%20version.pdf
Higher per capita, Gryphen, not the highest number.
ReplyDeleteI'd tell you Senator Sanders has a point about the rural versus urban divide about firearms--but then, I am the freak who insists Jimmy Carter lost the presidency over the 55 mph speed limit and not the hostages.
ReplyDelete...and the grain embargo...
DeleteRight. This is how he lost the West (also, mobile-basing proposal for the new ICBMs ruffled Mountain West feathers).
DeleteMeanwhile, Morning Joe asks the question about the 1,000 lb Gorilla in the room that no Hillary supporters want to acknowledge.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.facebook.com/mcallout/videos/590705534421377/
There will be no indictment. For what? You Berners are off the deep end on this, along with the Koch Brothers and Joe the Murderer. Rep. Elijah Cummings, who's on the Benghazi Committee, endorsed HRC today! He would not do that if there was any possible indictment. The FBI is only doing a security review with 12 guys! They will clear her in a few weeks; she will never use a private server again. And done!
DeleteWhat is it that Berners hope will be there? The GOP has already combed through her e-mails. She testified for 11 hours & was cleared. The previous Secs. Of States, like Rice and Powell, all said they had e-mails retroactively classified, too. There is no big problem that has anything to do with a legal issue!
Oops. Oh, sorry, two dux. I responded to the wrong Murderer Joe rant. He also had an e-mail rant today.
DeleteRe: above. Rigged against voters? What???
Joe votes GOP but the Democrats have had this same system for many years. Bernie's campaign manager wrote the SD rules! Did he complain in '08 & '12?
Sorry if I overreacted above. I cannot stand Joe Scarborough & wish they'd remove him from MSNBC to bring back Keith.
Clinton's 11 hour testimony was for Benghazi NOT for her emails!
DeletePowell had 2 Classified emails and Rice only had 10. Neither one of them had personal servers set up at their homes.
Seems like you're the one going off the deep end.
twofux is presaging Sanders' plans to get down in the dirt, and very soon. He is not beating Clinton any other way and his stupid threats about superdelegates are just making people laugh, so now he has to try slinging mud that dried up long ago.
DeleteYou couldn't pay me to care what Sanders does but he is in for a rude shock. He has obviously been too befuddled lately to notice that the worse that comes out of his mouth, the more elite endorsements Hillary gets.
NB: twofux, I will not respond to any attacks from you. GTH.
Gee childish name calling and hit and run tactics. About what I expect from anyone so delusional they support Hillary.
DeleteWhy don't you just grow up and discuss the issue I brought up (how this election is rigged for Hillary and she is still struggling)? Is that too much for you?
Well, he tried to go the Papal route that that was a bust (too bad he can't back out now).
DeleteRigged for Hillary, and she is still struggling--- Absolutely correct.
DeleteShe is no leader, and provides zero inspiration.
Hillary lovers have a complete inability to even acknowledge the large percentage of this country, Dems included, that completely despise the Clintons.
The election is not rigged. She is simply getting more votes than Sanders. Being ahead in votes, winning all states she was predicted to win (excluding Michigan, and that was just by a hair)...this is struggling?
DeletePresident and Secretary Clinton share a private server. There was no hack. What law was broken? None. Will it happen again? No.
Deletehttps://www.facebook.com/IVN/photos/a.10150378750457465.305513.233116802464/10153012617172465/?type=3&theater
DeleteThere's been no independent determination that Clinton's server was not hacked. Her server maintainer claims it, but now that he's got immunity, who knows what he's telling the FBI. In addition, the Romanian Guccifer who hacked Clinton's buddy Sidney Blumenthal's email was extradited to the US last week. Recall it was the hack of Blumenthal's email, including emails with Clinton, that exposed that Clinton was using a private server. So don't insist the email thing is over til the FBI finishes their investigation. Which IS indeed a criminal investigation because FBI doesn't investigate civil matters.
DeleteSecond Poll In A Day Finds Clinton Leading Sanders By Double Digits In New York
ReplyDeletehttp://www.politicususa.com/2016/04/11/poll-day-finds-clinton-leading-sanders-double-digits-york.html
When congress dug their heels in after Sandy Hook, I knew there would never be gun control
ReplyDeletein this country. Say what you want, Hillary, President Obama tried and it's never going to happen.
It will never happen unless someone tries.
DeleteIt's never going to happen like ACA never happened.
DeleteIt can and it will, we just need more democrats in the house and senate. Why the heck do you think Hillary is working so hard for other people's campaigns? No one person can do it all.
DeleteIn DC v. Heller (2008), the Supreme Court found that the right to own firearms in the Second Amendment is an individual right. While there may be some restrictions, there will never be full-on "gun control" in this country without amending the Constitution.
DeleteThe American Taliban is now in the film business...
ReplyDeleteFreedom Caucus Members Take Shots At GOP Leaders In New Documentary
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/trailer-house-freedom-caucus
O/t but why isn't this being trumpeted in the media after that big Panama Papers leak? Yeah, I know, because they never give him credit for anything he does. Assholes.
ReplyDeletePresident Obama’s Trade Deal Drastically Slashed Panama’s Tax Havens
Investigative journalists prove that President Obama drastically reduced the number of tax havens with one free trade pact with Panama.
http://www.politicususa.com/2016/04/11/president-obamas-trade-deal-slashed-increased-panamas-tax-havens.html
They'll never give him credit for anything
DeleteThis country is about to find out what they had the last eight years and lost.
I don't think 55 is a number to be poo hooed at. That's like saying ONLY 20 children were killed at Sandy Hook.
ReplyDeleteAgree!
DeleteIt doesn't matter that the number is "only 55", that's like saying "only one" ten-week-old baby had a shotgun put in its mouth and the trigger pulled. How many is too many?
ReplyDeleteUnless you can determine a number of murders that you find acceptable, it's also a stupid thing to say.
What matters is that Vermont is punching way above its weight in enabling crime and murder in other states.
That's a genuinely bad thing.
Examine who owns the rollin gun shows across America. Who wants to arm everyone? Who wants chaos? Who is the "establishment"? Examine what lands across America have been sold and to whom? The grove is frackin full of very hateful toxic wasteful little boys. overturn citizen united americans. get money out of elections. demand accountability? Like the sold usa soil, the media machine was sold too. Who owns it now?
ReplyDeleteWell, no, Sanders has won the Vatican thing. He's not only invited, he's on the agenda to speak on Friday afternoon.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.pass.va/content/dam/scienzesociali/booklet/centesimus_annus.pdf
By the way, the Pope will be at the Vatican on Friday so Bernie might get the hat trick and get to meet the Pope.
She's right about making gun control a voting issue. When we lived in Philly, they had gun shows, and the majority of the license plates in the parking lot came from states other than Pennsylvania. A newscaster went in with a hidden video, because in our state you're not allowed to record voices without permission, but there were no words needed, people were haggling, money was exchanged in the parking lot, and the guns went from one truck/car to another. No background checks at all, in our section, straw purchases came mostly from the virginias and Canada, yes, Canada.
ReplyDeleteSome of these guns were semiautomatic or automatic with clips and the bullets were hollow point. What pisses me off is, it's done in public, caught on film, then faces get pixellated along with tag numbers. You can't get a search warrant and go after these people?