The event kicked off minus one of the star speakers that had been advertised for weeks -- former Gov. Sarah Palin.
I am fairly sure that the people who visit here are not of one mind on this complicated issue. Personally I have mixed feelings on it myself.
I would certainly not want my daughter to seek an abortion without talking to me first, but I also have no doubt that she would do that very thing. And ultimately, as much as I want to be a grandfather, I would have to leave the decision of what to do with her own body up to her.
In my opinion I simply do not have the right to impose my will on my child. I love my daughter, I do not own my daughter.
However I realize that not everybody parents in the same manner that I do. And this is why Clovis Simon, Vice President of Planned Parenthood of the Great Northwest, says the following:
"The teens that don't bring their parents generally have some pretty extenuating circumstances in their lives, and those are the young women we're especially worried about," said Clover Simon, the Alaska vice president of Planned Parenthood of the Great Northwest.
Worried, Planned Parenthood says, because those teens often come from abusive homes, and making parental consent to get an abortion won't help.
"You can't mandate parental communication and family communication if it's not already in place when the unplanned pregnancy happens," Simon said. "It isn't going to start because there's a law in place."
Whatever your personal opinions of this topic may be I hope that this statement provides food for thought. Not all parents, nor all families, are created equal.
Think about the 29 YO woman who was kidnapped by a sex offender in Tahoe and was found yesterday, 18 years later. She now has 2 kids with the offender, aged 11 and 15. If she wanted an abortion, she should have been able to get it if she could have gotten away from her captors. JMO
ReplyDeleteClover or Clovis?
ReplyDeleteI still find it bizarre when she was asked to pen the first sig. (with camera's a flashing and all the ooh's and ah's ) she (according to un-stapled tongue) was excited for this opportunity
ReplyDeleteThen when she found out sig.'s had already been penned.. But Sarah! Your's will be the first "official one"..
Yeah well.. the limelight dimmed... and on top of not showing .. she is going to show them.. let them answer to the crowd.. let them look like the fools that don't know how to plan an event.. let them look like they are just using her Godly name
And these are good folk! I mean I do not support their cause AT ALL!!! But Ive been there.. in that churchy mind set.. I know that for the most part they are sincere (as convoluted and brainwashed as it is) .. 80% of the peeps are sincere .. and they are trying to save lives.. i know .. like i said.. warp city!
But .. regardless, S.P. wanted a photo op like the gov's picnic..
I truly think her downfall was the first time she went a lil' crazy on the bball court and people roared.. OH if I do this! people just see me! not me, as part of this boring team.. but the BARACUDA! .. and then the pageant.. OH MY I can play my flute and strut my stuff (with her butt clenched so tight it could.... ) eys on me! on ME!!!!! MEEEEE
and she hasn't lost that waning grasp
If I had gotten pregnant as a teenager, I would have gotten an abortion and I would not have consulted my parents regarding the issue. I grew up in a very strict household and I would have had a mother who would have brought up the pregnancy issue for the rest of my life. Parents should be there to help their teenagers, but remember that they are old enough to make their own decisions.
ReplyDeleteGryphen, once again, you say what I am thinking. I would not want my daughter to consider an abortion without at least talking to me first. And I know she would have come to me before making such a tough choice.
ReplyDeleteWe always had a close, loving, honest and open relationship. Unfortunately, that is not always true for all daughters and parents.
Kids don't need their parents' permission to get pregnant, which is far more of a life changer than an abortion.
ReplyDeleteYou can't legislate communication, which is indeed what it looks like they are trying to do. Actually, what they're really trying to do is find another way to outlaw abortion.
I know you're conflicted about this issue, Gryphen. I personally believe that quality of life is more important than simple existence, but then I don't have the Christian attitude toward human life. Unlike Christians, I value the lives of all creatures, which is why I don't eat them. But I don't think that gives me the right to make vegetarianism the law of the land.
Well put, Gryphen. I was fortunate enough to be born to parents that wanted and loved me, but I have heard some real horror stories told to me by girlfriends and classmates.
ReplyDeleteHey Gryphen: It's a tough call. I believe (from personal experience) that even though all kids say "my mom will KILL me", most of them come to their senses and come to mom for help - and we help them.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately the ones who are afraid to talk to mom, usually have a reason. Sorry, I do not mean to slight "dad" here, but honestly, most girls go to mom first.
I know even though it is a tough time, most normal and rational parents love their kids and try to be supportive during crises.
Especially up in Alaska, the State of Rape and Incest... This motion should not pass! Can you imagine: You are a teen, and your father/brother/uncle/gramps/whatever rapes you, and you become pregnant. Then you have to go to the PERPETRATOR to get permission for an abortion? Yeah, right!
ReplyDeleteIf this petiton passes, there will be a lot more coat hanger street alley abortions, and many more young women will be scarred for life and unable to have any more kids - or they will end up dead - bleeding to death from a botched dark alley abortion, or dead of a self inflicted wound.
I too have mixed feelings on this issue. On the one hand I would want my child to have all the facts, but on the other hand my heart always goes out to the poor scared girls that can't tell their parents. If they can't tell their parents then they certainly are going to get an abortion whether or not this law would be in effect.
ReplyDeleteI personally would want my daughter (don't have one but do have nieces) to get care from a professional doctor in a safe setting. Too many women in the past have died horrific deaths with back alley abortionists or doing it with a coat hanger or whatever else is available.
I hope that it does not pass and the reason being girls will go back to earlier days and try to handle it themselves or go to unqualified clinics. Girls drinking turpintine, having someone kick them in the stomach use coathangers or some other means they have heard about. As you stated Gryphen not everyone has that type of relationship with their parents, this type of law could actually place some of these girls in danger. What does a girl do if she has one of those incestous families who does she turn to? If you take her rights away she will feel doomed and hopeless and see no answer to her situation.
ReplyDeleteI was one of those who had an abortion at 17 w/o talking to my parents. While fear of my parents contributed to my decision I knew I did not want to be a mother nor go thru a pregnancy. I don't regret that decision.
ReplyDeleteI've raised 2 daughters since then and while I think it's great to think your kids will tell you everything or come to you with their problems a great deal of the time they don't. As this is a decision that will affect their life far more than your own they should be allowed to make that decision without guilt and recriminations which would rarely happen with parental involvement.
What about the incest issue of pregnancy? The teenager assuredly will not ask for, or want, the advice or consent of the parents!
ReplyDeleteThe link below tells the story about the doctors and a mother being excommunicated by the Catholic Church because an abortion was performed on a 9-year-old girl who was raped by her stepfather and pregnant with twins. The rapist will not be excommunicated and will serve 15 years if convicted. He is also suspected of raping the 14-year-old handicapped sister. I hope the link works.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/brazil-rocked-by-abortion-for-9yearold-rape-victim-1640165.html
Religious political extremism.
This is an excellent piece. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteAs a parent, I get not wanting my children to have any medical procedure without my knowledge.
I am shocked to read some of the comments from the supporters of this legislation. They do not want to discuss or know the facts. They are in their own world about it.
The newspapers of Alaska also do a dismal job of investigative reporting and information.
These children cannot be left behind.
Did you know under Palin's Governorship; Alaska lead the nation with rapes and incest?
Forcible rape rate and Violent crime by State
http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/16914870?limit_modifier=all&graph
Are We Failing To. Protect Children? Presented by. Cathy Baldwin-Johnson, MD, FAAFP. Medical Director, Alaska CARES
http://www.aapalaska.org/2008%20Powerpoint/DrBaldwinJohnsononchildabuseslides09.pdf
"Sexual assault is part of the continuum of family violence," Dr. Baldwin-Johnson said. "Almost 60% of rapes of women over 30 are related to their battering relationship with their partner."
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb4345/is_6_33/ai_n29189938/
Another Alaskan celebrity
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003498257_pilgrim28.html
Palin And Alaska Native Women
http://washingtonindependent.com/4015/palin-and-alaska-native-women
Here's the 9th definition by Glad I escaped from hell:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=alaska&defid=4114650
Alaska has the highest rape and sexual assault rate in North America. The average victim age was 16, 46% of these were referred for prosecution, with only about half resulting in convictions. So around 25% of those who committed sexual assault or rape will ever see jail time. This is believed to represent only a fraction of abuse actually committed in trooper jurisdiction. Still, Alaska has had the nation's highest per capita occurrence since 1995. According to statewide figures for 2003 and 2004 alone, there were 89 rapes per 100,000 people, almost three times the national average of 32 per 100,000.
Sexual Assault:
http://www.hss.state.ak.us/dph/ipems/injury_prevention/akfvpp/bkgnd.htm
Alaska has 6 times the national average of reported child sexual assault.
1 in 4 girls before the age of 12 and 1 in 6 boys before the age of 18 nationally will be sexually assaulted.
Fairbanks Health Center surveyed 419 clients over a 3-week period and found that 24% reported physical abuse in the past 6 months while 39% reported some form of sexual abuse (1995).
In 3 out of 4 reported cases, the victim knew the offender, the most commonly reported type of sexual abuse is a father who commits incest with his daughter--usually the eldest daughter.
As many as 4 out of 5 offenders were sexually assaulted as children.
One-third of incest victims' mothers were sexually abused as children.
Alaska's rape rate is 2.2 times the national average overall.
These "pro-life" people are just finding any way they can to keep women from having the right to control their bodies. I know it's a fantasy but I would like a world where every child is wanted--not a punishment. So I'm in favor of choice.
ReplyDeleteAnd remember that one of the first young women, to be forced by her state's laws to get parental permission, was murderd by her parents because she had gotten pregnant.
ReplyDeleteThose parents respected neither their daughter nor their future grandchild. Why should their rights have been placed above the right of their child to live and be protected?
OT but I am about to explode. I was over at See4Pee. Normally I don't comment over there but this just sent me over the edge. There is an article comparing MLK to Sarah Palin!!! So I posted this:
ReplyDeleteGinaM said...
I'm sure this comment will be deleted but I'm going to say it anyway. Adrienne that was the most disgusting thing you have ever written. To compare MLK to Sarah Palin has made me absolutely speechless. MLK marched and took beatings just so that African Americans could EAT in ALL WHITE diners not to mention the intergration of schools.
What has Sarah Palin done for ANYBODY other than herself to advance African American's cause? She wouldn't even sign the JuneTeenth Proclamation. Please don't give me that crap about "it was a clerical error".
Adrienne you are not a "sellout". You are totally misguided and blinded by a person who is not who you believe her to be. Sister you need help. I will keep you in my prayers.
August 28, 2009 7:58 PM
29 August 2009 02:08
just a little support for my post at the top.
ReplyDeleteLook at Freethinker or google the title of the posting:
"Well, what a surprise! US Kidnapper of Jaycee Lee Dugard is a Religous Fanatic"
@GinaM, 4:11 p.m. Of course they see Sarah Palin as MLK. They also think she's the Virgin Mary. They see starbursts when they look at her. They also think she's Joan of Arc.
ReplyDeleteTHEY ARE CRAZY IDIOTS. She keeps milking them for all their worth.
It takes my breath away that some dang fool like Star Parker is invited to this shindig, presumably as a role model for teenage girls. How many women need four abortions before they stop getting pregnant? How does anyone think she has any more credibility now that she's anti than she did when she was having one abortion after another? She has as little credibility as Sarah Palin.
ReplyDeleteTo me this is one of those "common sense" situations. Just like people with common sense do not believe that their Government will kill them via health care. War maybe, but not via health care.
ReplyDeleteWhen a teenage girl is pregnant and decides she want's to have an abortion, I don't doubt for a minute (my common sense) that the majority will do it on their own, without telling their parents about it. Yes, if you are a parent, it would be nice if your daughter came to you to discuss it beforehand. But really, this is something that she will handle privately. It's such a STIGMA if people know about it.
This new attempt is by people completely against a woman's right to privacy and a right to choose. They are trying step by step to outlaw abortion. That's their goal.
I am an atheist who is anti-abortion because I think the destruction of a living child within the mother's womb is a horrifying act. It's not a religious thing with me, it's a human thing. To say that it's an issue of a woman's right to make decisions about her body denies the fact that another being with it's own DNA is developing inside her.
ReplyDeleteAt the same time, I understand that making abortion illegal is not the answer, so I find myself not a member of either camp.
This is a very tough issue. (duh!) I'm just asking that posters here consider that not everyone who is anti-abortion is a right-wing religious nut case.
Gryphen, I like you would hope my daughter would have come to me and that she would have felt she could, but she is now 27 so she will never have to make that decision. But as a volunteer at planned Parenthood in 3 different states over the years some of these girls are so frightened of their parents that it has given me a realistic view, most girls CAN and DO go to their parents( or at least one) but its that small percentage that we must protect. We must ALL remember(and look it up if you don't believe me) That a woman who is pregnant is at the greatest "risk" of being murdered at that time of her life than any other, by husbands, boyfriends, and fathers.
ReplyDeleteI don't remember the numbers, but teenagers who did not have parental permission was very very small. I'm not concerned about this becoming law on a personal level because my daughters would talk to me. It is true that other teenage girls don't have parents available. I think education is best. My oldest daughter sent her two pre-teen sons to the family planning clinic in Homer to get educated about birth control and stds. I thought that was a great proactive idea! So, remember to educate the teenage boys. Even though I understand why parents are concerned for this law, they should develop dialogue with their children, instead of taking the easy way out... make it a "law" that you can't have premarital sex, and if kids do, then parents get fined! how about that?olice busy.
ReplyDeleteGina, thanks for being the voice of ALL of us and posting there.
ReplyDeleteThe thought of her comparing MLK and palin makes me violently ill!
Adreinne seems like a nice person but severely misgauides and mislead by palin. Your post is amazingly still there 2 7:10pm PT. When you speak you are speaking for all of us, who just threw up in our mouths.
Also read Theopalinism blog for today:
http://www.theopalinism.com/blog/2009/08/27/alaska-governor-sean-parnells-church-rolls-out-the-red-carpet/
What a lovely statement: "I love my daughter. I do not own my daughter."
ReplyDeleteHow fortunate your daugher is to have a father such as you. I doubt that you will have to worry about her because children know when their parents both love and respect them.
GinaM- I saw your comment over at the peeing site, Good for you, It won't do them any good but at least it gets it out there...although they are starting to question Sarah and Megs position on confirming or not confirming speaking dates.
ReplyDeleteThank you Anonymous @ 5:27pm, 6:30pm & crystalwolf. Now I don't feel so alone. I went back and commented again because one the Nuts said that they shouldn't make that comparison. I agreed with him unfortunately this what he meant:
ReplyDeleteALA said...
This is pointless. How could you people not see that it is all the same? .Obama-King, King-Obama both narcisistic ,controlling- communists.Race has nothing to do with it ,it is all same ideology that I though we are against.
Putting Palin in the same category is resally degrading to the Gov.
August 28, 2009 10:17 PM
Yeah...nuts all of them. Adrienne has her own blog and she also spent a month up in Wasilla, and Anchorage meeting with The Quitter and her family. She is a what we call a "Bible Thumper". The name of her blog is "Motivation Truth.com"
Crystalwolf I went to Leah's blog thank you for the heads up. I had read about Star Parker from somebody else's link. Now she is a piece of work. I always say that the biggest sinners and hypocrites are in the church house.
GinaM I just went over to the Peeing blog and read some of the comments. These are people who know nothing about history apparently. Sarah Palin is a racist and to be compared with MLK is totally illogical. I loved your post.
ReplyDeleteI have seen the results of the incest in rural Alaska. Not every family where a child is molested is highly dysfunctional, but the majority are. I have seen mothers say children are liars when they complain about being molested by their father or mother's boyfriend, "She's just saying that to get attention." One reason the abusers don't like the girls to get abortions is it requires counseling. This means their secret is in danger of being exposed. Thanks for this post Gryphen.
Gina, huge HUGS for you...for speaking out for all of us!
ReplyDeleteIts nice that these people are developing an initiative to put on the ballot; but the Supreme Court of Alaska have already turned this one down. A vote by 100% of the citizens of this state (which they won't get) will not change the precedent. Good luck to them. It will give them something to do and keep them from proselytizing on the street corners.
ReplyDeleteIn the mean time, I want a law that requires all underage children, male and female, to get their parents' permission before giving birth to a child. I want both sets of parents to have to post a bond (of an amount to be determined later) which will be used to support the child of this union until it is 18 years old. I want food, shelter, medical care, education, recreation and vacation - all of it must be paid by the two families involved. If its so important for these people to procreate, lets see them put their money where their mouths are!
Great piece---Important, difficult.
ReplyDeleteI couldn't help but think of Papa Pilgrim and our Alaska Stats.
Early in my Medical Trng. in the service I was at Ft. Benning, GA. This was pre Roe v Wade. There were 5 septic ABs (back alley/coat-hanger) ALL DIED, badly. Later in my PA trng I spent time with Planned Parenthood in the NW and they were some of the most caring and compassionate people I have ever met.
I have never met anyone who likes abortion. But, I will not vote to tell any woman of child bearing age she can not make choices about her own body, and will support her iny way I can.
Everybody seems to forget the mortal risk of child bearing, read your history.
Thank you Celia and Trish I just posted on Adrienne's blog. She hasn't responded to the nitty gritty of my post yet. Anyway here is the link: www.motivationtruth.com.
ReplyDeleteWe'll see what she has to say.
Anonymous atheist, you believe a rapist should be free to choose the mother of his child, then. Not good enough.
ReplyDeleteGina - On alternate weeks, Sarah is Esther (from the bible), Margaret Thatcher, a saint, reincarnated Ronald Reagan, Joan of Arc, and various other icons. So, that she is MLK this week is no surprise. She is ALL THAT and a bag of chips! Delusional cultists worshiping a false idol. Maybe next week she will be JFK or Jesus.
ReplyDeleteGina - approx. 80% of American voters think Palin is an inept whack job. I am no longer allowing myself to get riled up by the 10% who don't know anything about her, and the 10% (mostly religious fanatics) who worship her.
ReplyDeleteSame re Adrienne, who is star-struck and newly important because the Palin/Heath families are paying attention to her. I just read your posts and Adrienne's answers) on her blog - thank you for trying, but you cannot reach people who are in a cult and brainwashed. I have "turned her into a cartoon," and it really helps to just picture her as such.
My mother told me if I got pregnant, not to bother coming home.
ReplyDeleteI wasn't not allowed to date till I was way past 16 and she gave me NO sex education. She didn't even discuss sex with me except the above statement.
Was lucky I was studying nursing and found my way to a Planned Parenthood.
I made sure things were different when I had kids.
Gryphen,
ReplyDeleteYou are very fortunate to have a daughter who trusts you completely. You are a great Father. But unfortunately, there are some horrible parents in this world. So bad that some kids cannot even trust them with their own lives.
When I was a preteen, I lived next door to a family that took in at least 5 foster children. They were treated horribly. (this was the early 60's) One of them was my best friend. I would ask her why she didn't tell her Social Worker what was going on. She told me that they never believed her and when she did try to tell, after the Social Worker left, they would be beaten even worse. Every single one of those kids ran away when they were 16. That was the legal age at the time. They had horrible, horrible lives.
This shit still goes on today. Maybe not as severe but bad enough.
This is a reason not to have a parental consent law. There will always be kids who slip through the cracks. But if there is a girl who needs an abortion and doesn't confide in at least one of her parents, I'm sure there is a good reason for it.
The last time that I saw my friend was in the early 70's. I have no idea what has happened to her. She grew up with a broken heart, badly abused and trusting no one. I hope that she is still alive somewhere, happy. The others all turned into junkies, heroin being plentiful, cheap and everywhere where we grew up. I hope and pray that they found real love and trust and have gotten their lives together.
ella and gregory thank you for your supportive words of wisdom. And yes gregory Adrienne's non answer was kind of what I expected. She of course brought up that she doesn't believe that Sarah is racist. Something I never said. I think even Adrienne has some misgivings about the Ex-gov. She never debated the fact that Sarah Palin is not in the same league as MLK. Not now, not ever.
ReplyDeleteNor will she ever be.
Gryphen, thank you for allowing my post. I know I have been OT but I appreciate all who have responded to my distress.
"It takes my breath away that some dang fool like Star Parker is invited to this shindig, presumably as a role model for teenage girls. How many women need four abortions before they stop getting pregnant?"
ReplyDeleteIn fact, if Star Parker truly believed that abortion is murder, which is the mantra of the Right to Lie gang, she is a serial killer and no example at all.
"I'm just asking that posters here consider that not everyone who is anti-abortion is a right-wing religious nut case."
We're playing the odds. And I think it strange that life is so sacred in a fetus, and meaningless in a woman old enough to get pregnant. I think your priorities are disordered. At best, there is no guarantee that the fetus will survive to birth and after; the pregnant woman, however, is already alive.
The antichoice people are, underneath it all, never about the baby; always about controlling women.
mary b, many of us know of similar situations. I think it may be worse today because no one talks about these things. Doctors are medicating everyone. Children are on medications like never before. I've read what some of the kids in Alaska write. It is kid talk but you can't miss the influence of drugs and alcohol. They call it party. I don't know which comes first. I think the over medicating and self-medicating is to cover pain, not to deal with the problems.
ReplyDeleteIMO, it is all tied together. People will not speak about abusing drugs and they will not speak about sex abuse or incest.
I am confounded with Dr. Cathy Baldwin-Johnson. It is nice she has been honored and she has clinics. She must be helping people. Why is there no evidence that communities are discussing these issues and taking action? Where are the policies and legislation to help the victims?
What is wrong with the local newspapers?
I don't understand why a doctor-M.D.-who is an authority on child abuse/teen pregnancy (I went to the link) such as Dr. Cathy Baldwin-Johnson would be the doctor that Sarah Palin used for her alleged pregnancy of Trig. She also wrote the short memo which was submitted late evening of the Nov. election which summarized Palin's medical history. Odd choice.
ReplyDeleteI live in rural Alaska and there is never any special local effort to educate or prevent teen sexual involvement, child abuse,incest.hushhush and those in responsible positions such as clinic, teachers, aide, Head Start treat all these topics as taboo subjects-ignored. Observed byformer foster parent for four years.