As for the student, no specific subjects need to be studied, no number of hours need be logged behind a desk, no tests taken.
Alaska has the most lax home-schooling law in the country.
No one even knows how many Alaska children stay home instead of attending a public or private school -- they aren't tracked or monitored.
As many of you know I did work for the Alaska School District until just recently and I can attest that it is one of the best education systems in the country. Wonderful teachers, a varied curriculum, and countless opportunities are available for children with special needs or who are academically gifted. I would not claim that every single child that enters Alaska schools gets exactly what they need, but I can say that the effort is definitely made and the resources are almost always readily available.
There are special ed teachers, counselors, school psychologists, school nurses, physical education teachers, etc., who receive the specialized training in their field of expertise to provide the services they were hired to provide. What parent has all of those resources close at hand in the home when their child needs them?
And there is a very important the social component to attending school. Part of our education system is learning how to successfully interact with other people. And that is made much harder when the child is almost exclusively surrounded by family members.
I used to teach gymnastics and I would often get home schooled students looking for a PE credit to meet their educational requirement. For the most part the kids were quite intelligent, but they had limited social skills. One boy in particular did not know how to express to me that he was not feeling well and ended up vomiting in the middle of the trampoline. He was so overcome with shame that he locked himself in the bathroom until his Mom came to get him. And this kid was fifteen years old!
Home-school advocates say the lack of reporting and regulation is the way it should be because it leaves parents free to make choices for the child. But others say it leaves an uncounted number of children at the mercy of parents who don't have what it takes to give kids what they need to avoid being left behind in life.I consider myself to be pretty intelligent, on paper I appear even smarter, but I am all too aware of my limitations. I could confidently manage to assist my children in learning to read, discovering science, and studying history, but when it came to math I might as well be a tree stump for all of the help I would be able to provide. Math skills simply elude me.
I could probably teach from a manual provided by homeschool publishing companies, but I would not be able to expand on the information provided. I could not flesh it out, or come at it from a different direction if my child proved to be as dense as I am on the subject. I simply do not have the tools. But a high school math teacher undoubtedly would.
Across the country, the popularity of home-schooling is growing. The National Center for Education Statistics estimates that from 1999 to 2003, the number of home-schooled children increased from about 850,000 to roughly 1.1 million, a 29 percent jump. National home-schooling proponents suggest even higher estimates today of around 2 to 2.5 million children. But again, no one knows for sure.
2.5 million homeschooled children? That is a whole hell of a lot of kids! These are future adults who may not accept the same scientific facts as their peers. Who may not have learned to take turns like their peers. Who may not have been exposed to as many people of a different ethnicity, or even gender as their peers. And yet we expect them to interact as effectively with each other as their peers?
I have to say that kind of concerns me.
In school we learn to accept that there are people who do not believe like we do.
In school we learn that the rules of society are to be obeyed.
In school we learn that often things are not simply black and white, but rather varying shades of gray.
In school we learn that as great as mom and dad are, they are not always right.
Where else will those lessons be taught if we do not attend school?
So exactly why do parents choose to homeschool their children?
Some parents home-school for religious reasons. Some because their child has learning disabilities and needs special one-on-one attention that schools don't offer. Some because they don't like the public school social environments where their kids are bullied. And others because they think their kid will get more out of individualized instruction.
I know that there are parents who choose to homeschool their children because they really do believe they can provide the best education for their little one. And for a handful that is probably true.
But a lot of parents seem to be choosing to keep their kids home NOT because they can give their children the best education possible, but because they want to control what their child learns. Perhaps they do not feel comfortable exposing their child to other ethnicity's, or liberal points of view, or, and this is most often the case, secularism.
They do not want their little snowflake to realize that people of a different faith are not monsters, or that evolution is not a sign of the Apocalypse, or that the earth is not the center of the universe. They want to shape the mind of their child to think EXACTLY LIKE THEY DO.
They want to create, in effect, a clone who accepts their own stilted view of the world.
Now let me add this disclaimer. There are indeed a number of legitimate reasons to homeschool your children. But I stand by my assertion that those are the exception to the usual reason that parents choose to do so. For the majority of the parents making the homeschool choice it is less about education, and more about control.
And this is especially true concerning fundamentalist Christian parents who are terrified that somebody may teach their child information not sanctioned by their church. So to keep the minds of little Jimmy and Sally pristine and uncluttered with "facts" they simply remove them from the source of that kind of information, the public school.
By this method an army is created of people who have never learned to utilize "critical thinking", who readily accept as "fact" whatever their parents, ministers, or elected officials tell them, and who are easily directed to do whatever their masters tell them to do.
We have seen them for ourselves. They are the thousands of people attending 9-12 protests, they are the screamers at the health care town halls, they are the supposed millions of people who watch FOX News like it is the gospel. This what the Republicans have been trying to accomplish for decades by vilifying public schools and pushing for private (read "religious" schools) and homeschools.
This is THEIR demographic. Those that are instructed to"believe" instead of using that amazing intellect of theirs to "think"(Why would a GOD give you such a magnificent organ if he did not want you to use it?). That is the monster that the conservative Republicans are attempting to create. A simple minded mob that responds to their Pavlovian catch phrases.
Abortion! "Save the babies!"
Communism! "Save our democracy!"
Atheism! "Save our religion!"
Socialism! "Stop this President!"
I am afraid my friends that Frankenstein has successfully brought his creature to life, and it will take far more then simple pitchforks and torches to drive it away.
I homeschooled my children when they were younger and I had a very difficult time in finding other families to do activities with- they were all fundamentalist Christians, and I didn't want my kids exposed to that sort of mentality at such a young age!
ReplyDeleteCan I just say that as an educator who has won a few teaching awards, I completely agree with you, Gryphen.
ReplyDeleteThis morning I wrote a comment under your Darwin entry about home-schooled kids, and then deleted it before posting. I know you have some readers who home-school(ed)their kids, including some "secular" parents who did not complete college themselves. And I do not wish to offend them (as I know most of your readers are "progressives," not fundamentalists).
I find it impossible to try to reason with folks who are undereducated, part of a cult, and have little-to-none critical reasoning faculties. But according to Blumenthal in REPUBLICAN GOMORRAH, Dobson likes them to stay that way. However, these folks cannot offer solutions, as they have proven this year. All they can offer is "NO."
The families I have known who have homeschooled did it mainly for religious purposes. One did admit it was also to keep her children from being around "those kids" (black). The problem is that none of them were smart enough or motivated enough to teach all subjects well. Instead they jumped from one brand of homeschooling materials to another, let weeks go by without any schooling whatsoever, or gave their kids expensive computers so the kids could work alone.
ReplyDeleteOne of my daughter's pre-teen homeschooled friends did all her homework upstairs in her room, for hours....come to find out their neighbors had an unencrypted wireless network, and she had a about five months of freedom on the internet before mom and dad got a clue. Yikes.
Another child we knew was "homeschooled" every other year and in a regular school alternate years because she was so far behind after being at home. Even when she was supposed to be learning at home, the parents often left her home for full days while they worked, since she could "do it by herself" or "watch a video".
It is interesting to imagine what a surprise these kids will get when they finally leave home and hit the real world. Every-Other-Year-Mom said to me "Susan's a GOOD GIRL." Maybe, but she also is seriously clueless.
IMO home schooling, for the most part does nothing to create a well rounded,think for yourself young adult.
ReplyDeleteThere are many things the world has to offer,that most parents are just not capable of teaching.
And the ADN article failed to discuss the tie in many home school families have with school districts. Raven School, IDEA, Cyber Links, etc. all provide curriculum support, funds and certified teacher support to families choosing to home school. The ADN article made it sound like every home school family was shooting in the dark and home schooling in Alaska was the wild west, something that this blog (which I typically enjoy reading with a total grain of salt) perpetuated. This isn’t the case for those families linked with a school district. Many home school families (I don’t have the numbers but IDEA is around 3500 and Raven 1100 ) are linked to a school district which mandates state testing, high school graduation requirements (with passing of the HSGQE) and the awarding of a legitimate high school diploma which is accepted by institutions of higher learning all over the US. I would create a profile, but I am at my office working as a home school support teacher :-)
ReplyDeleteI know for a fact, in the community that I live in there is no homeschooling. I do realize that some in Canada do, but it is not near as popular as it is in the states. I worry about the kids who are homeschooled, simply for religious purposes.
ReplyDeleteYour post Gryphen, is right on target in my opinion. Can you imagine what its like for someone to grow up..prepare to strike out on his/her own, and not know up from down.
I was extremely shy as a child. School was difficult for me, regarding socialization. lol..if my mom had homeschooled me I would have been in heaven. She was smart enough and talented in music etc.,...she could have. No way...not me. I slowly learned to deal with others. I honed my self confidence, and developed a public speaking ability that served me well during my career. Really, education is probably even more important today for our kids than ever before. We need critical thinkers...people with expanded world views to be there to provide the answers if the human race is to survive.
Anonymous 4:23, I TOTALLY agree with you that there are a number of parents who seek out curriculum from the school district and try very hard to provide a good education for their children.
ReplyDeleteThe point of my post is that there are a whole lot more who are not trying to get the best education of their children, but rather are attempting to control WHAT their children learn.
I knew when I wrote this that I would receive some very angry comments, but I want to be clear that I am not putting EVERY parent who homeschools into the same category.
However I would suggest that the majority of home schooling parents are still more concerned with controlling their children then educating their children.
Snarrrrrlllll......
ReplyDeleteI homeschooled both my kids and consider myself a flaming atheist.
I daresay my kids are some of the brightest kids I know, but then, I'm their mom.
We ended up homeschooling the first one till he got a GED (top of his class), and then he went to college and got his Associate of Science degree in electronics at 19.
My second one is doing high school at a charter school that she likes very much.
In retrospect I think homeschooling may be better for younger kids than older kids.
Yeah, I know you made your token disclaimer in your post but I'm still a little mad. Grr.....
Even here in progressive Massachusetts, the only home schooling children I know are hard hitting Christians. What is almost worse, though, here in my community, where the public school system is really very good - there are a ton of people with more money than brains who feel the need to ship their kids off to private, and sometimes boarding school (in the next town over, no less). It drives me nuts. Just to make absolute sure (in their peabrains) that little Johnny will get into Harvard one day. Yeah, right. Sending kids to private in a town where there is an excellent public school contributes to the collapse of the community. No one seems to care about actually being in a community, they just want to be in a pretty New England town.
ReplyDeleteSorry, I'll get off my soap box now.
Gryphen, I have to agree with you. I saw a article awhile back that shrub/GOP pushed the homeschool for the fundies. In some states like you say the parents don't have to provide proof of any type of schooling! That is wrong! In cali a parent has to have teacher's credentials to homeschool. I recently met a teacher and tutor at Staples and she was buy comp books for her students. They only get so much money from the district so she was buying as much as she could for her students. I was so impressed with her caring for them. Nowadays parents don't even have time to help kids with homework let alone home school. We are seeing the crop of the last 8 years of homeschool at these teabagging "movements" (can I flush now?)
ReplyDeleteThese people are "we're mad, we don't want to play with you" they have learned absolutely no social skills.No critical thinking or reasoning skills, not socialized. Look at Joe Wilson.
And besides being Half white, that is why they hate President Obama, he shows how stupid they are. He was trying to tell the kids to go to school and learn. They are "keep 'em dumb"
In Alaska b/c of its geography I can see why home schooling might be better in some regions. But the kids do not learn critical thinking skills, socialization skills, they are isolated.
It is really a crime against the kids....
I don't understand how homeschooling works. When the child applies to college, what high school grades can they show? How can they ever compete in sports or debate club, chess team, etc.?
ReplyDeleteAnd I have strong suspicions about evil parents pretending to homeschool while they abuse the kids, undisturbed by school authorities. The woman who was kidnapped in California and her 2 daughters who have never attended school come to mind.
I have two words for this. Philip Garrido. He stole that kid and fathered two girls with her who he was all proud about "how they didn't know anything about the world." So, as an example, a guy who is obviously crazy, thinks having kids who know nothing is a good thing.
ReplyDeleteWhat will be interesting is when these kids "graduate". Will they take the SAT to go onto college? Will they pass the SAT? Is the criteria for colleges like Liberty University lower than State Universities? We'll see in a few years I guess how this all turns out.
ReplyDeleteGryphen, I think you are totally right, but...so what? Not a thing we can do about it. Just prepare your own children to meet some seriously unbalanced people later on. You might even be able to develop a list of signs to look for. It's likely that many or most of the kids who were home schooled by control freaks will grow up to be control freaks themselves.
ReplyDeleteMy grandchildren are home schooled by an unqualified control freak which worries me endlessly, but my 20-yr-old grandson had no trouble passing the SATs and getting into the university of his choice, so go figure. After about a year of some very questionable behavior he has settled down, is doing well in college and seems to be fitting into society well.
ReplyDeleteI have experienced some of the same with homeschooled children, I have a client who owns/runs a large corporation and has said he can see a huge difference between the non-homeschooled and homeschooled young adults he employs, he sees a huge difference in self-motivation, ability to think for oneself, ability to ctitical think, lack of social skills, lack of being able to communicate properly with others....he would rather hire non-homeschooled young adults. The business owner is also one of the most religious people I know-serious Evangelical stuff...but he is not totally in favor of homeschooling..
ReplyDeleteI am in NYS, and have a neice(in NYS) who was homeschooled, she has serious learning disabilities/mental health issues(I feel are from being segregated from others her age/feeling like she doesn't belong and no one caught onto this, she eventually went for her high school GED but cannot pass this...this poor young women's life is now in limbo....W
e always used to say(I know this is mean) that Robin(Not her real name)would fall in love with the first guy who looked at her(she doesn't know about boy-girl relationships because she was homeschooled) due to her lack of social skills and poor self esteem she has found a few young men but she has difficulty with these relationships.
I think these kids suffer greatly once they enter the "real world" This young lady "Robin" was never taught to think for herself, she would REPEAT gloom and doom stories from her parents and her EVANGELICAL CHURCH" She was raised in a home where the male is always right, so this has caused her serious problems in her relationships with men.. she was taught that a woman exists to serve the husband, so in her male relationships she has been emotionally abused by the males in her life...she doesn't realize this because this is all she knows...
Yes, It appeared that Robin's mother and father did not want Robin exposed to the GAYS, to music other than christian, to movies other than christian or children's movies when this girl was in her teens, They did homeschool Robin to keep her from being exposed to non-christians, they had no serious committment to providing a srtong education to their child.
There needs to be someone on the state level in charge of monitoring homeschooling adults, the lack of monitoring and esablishment of clear educational goals to be accomplished by homeschoolers has caused this country great problems(tea baggers)
I am hoping some statistics exist to show what happens after these homeschooled children leave their "unreal world"
Really I believe there has to be higher standards for homeschooling, I remember being told that my neice(Robin) would start school at 9 am, meanwhile my children had already been at school 1 1/2 hrs , then an hour for lunch(20 minutes in the public schools) the work load my children carried was astronomical compared to what my neice did.....
It is the homeschooled children who will suffer greatly on many levels, but it is also our country that will also suffer great setbacks by the undereducation of our children...we already have fewer college educated young adults than any other industrialized country in the world...we can not compete with these countries.
AMERICAN WILL LOSE IT'S ROLE AS A WORLD LEADER
We are already at a disadvantage educationally , we have to ensure that education is a top priority in the American life...
We already see this in the tea bagger demonstrations that leave the majority of us scratching our heads, and saying WTF ! ! !
What can be done?????
Am I the only thinking that if Alaska is allowing kids to just disappear off the radar it helps explain the rates of child sexual abuse?
ReplyDeleteWhomever is responsible for this neglect ought to be sued.
A little different perspective: My kids love school! There is no way they would let me homeschool them if I wanted to. I have a hard time believing that most kids don't want to go to school. Especially when they are younger. Remember how exciting recess was? Being the weather person of the day? Bringing home spelling tests that your worked hard on? Ridding the bus? Cartoon lunchboxes? I wouldn't want to deprive my kids of that experience and it can't be duplicated in a homeschool setting.
ReplyDeleteI wasn't going to weigh in, but I decided to after seeing the eagerness of some here to pain all home schoolers with the same broad brush.
ReplyDeleteJust to recap, I have home schooled all five of my kids. The oldest is now a public school teacher. So there you go.
Getting into a good college requires the same diligence for homeschoolers as it does for publicly schooled students. Parents and students should check the admission requirements for the school of choice well beforehand and implement the kind of long-term strategy necessary to get into that school. Keeping a portfolio of academic and extracurricular work and planning for the SAT. A lot of community service can't hurt, either. And it builds character to boot.
I can tell you from personal experience that a well-homeschooled child will have no problem getting into a good school. Universities like homeschooled students because they are autodidactic and self-motivated. A well-rounded home education is seen more as an asset than a liability, especially when backed up by exemplary test scores.
Those who express concern over the narrow academic and social views offered by religious homeschoolers will get no argument from me. There are some bad apples out there in the land of homeschooling. But there are some substandard teachers in the public system, too. If all teachers were excellent then Obama wouldn't have pointed out the need to weed out bad ones as part of educational reform.
When I was in high school I was given detention for arguing with a science teacher who tried to tell me a frog was a reptile. When my parents complained, they were told nothing could be done; the teacher had tenure.
There are some homeschoolers who oppose government oversight, but there are also teachers unions who oppose testing of teachers. The way I see it, any educator - whether in private, public or homeschool - should be able to prove they can master the subject matter they are teaching. Those afraid of such testing are afraid because they know they can't cut it.
All kids deserve a good education, no matter where they get it. But to imply that one system is perfect and another inherently flawed is ridiculous. I know a lot of parents who would love to put their kids in public school if the schools in their districts were adequate. That's not the case for all of us, though, especially those of us in rural or underfunded areas of this country.
Re: "They do not want their little snowflake to realize that people of a different faith are not monsters, or that evolution is not a sign of the Apocalypse, or that the earth is not the center of the universe. They want to shape the mind of their child to think EXACTLY LIKE THEY DO.
ReplyDeleteThey want to create, in effect, a clone who accepts their own stilted view of the world."
Utter bullshit.
Among legitimate reasons for home schooling are the deplorable conditions of some schools. These include violence, the prevalence of drugs, and the lack of autonomy a parent has to decide if the teachers assigned his or her child are competent, viable role models.
Most grievously you merely advance opinions based on your own anecdotal experience and do not support your argument by any research or data.
I'm not going to squander my 4,000 characters to blow holes in the fallacies of your argument: several references should suffice:
Academics:
In 1997, a study of 5,402 homeschool students from 1,657 families was released. demonstrated that homeschoolers, on the average, out-performed their counterparts in the public schools by 30 to 37 percentile points in all subjects.
This was confirmed in another study by Dr. Lawrence Rudner of 20,760 homes-chooled students which found the homeschoolers who have home-shooled all their school aged years had the highest academic achievement. This was especially apparent in the higher grades.
Social Development:
In August of 2001, Time Magazine featured an article “Seceding from School,” in which it was acknowledged that home schooled children outperformed public school students but sought to determine if they they adapted to society as well as adults.
The study focused on 7,500 adults who had been home schooled.
The conclusions: Seventy-one percent of previously home-schooled
individuals participated in an ongoing community service activity (e.g., coaching a sports team, volunteering at a school, or working with a church or neighborhood association), compared to 37% of U.S. adults of similar ages who had been educated in public schools.
Eighty-eight percent of the homeschool graduates surveyed were members of an organization (e.g., such as a community group, church or synagogue, union, homeschool group, or professional organization), compared to 50% of U.S. adults who had attended public school.
Moral development: (From the Washington Times, "Homeschooling: Teaching morals a parental priority."
Core Family Stability:
"Nearly 90 percent of home-schooling families are two-parent families, according to NHES, which contrasts with the situation of most institutional schools, where divorces or single parenting account for about half of the students' home situations... ."
"In other words, home-schoolers tend to take their commitment to marriage and family seriously, as well as their commitment to their faith and moral principles."
Finally, a poll of 710 home-schooling families by Pollcode provided this data:
"Why Do You Homeschool?"
Reason:
Educational flexibility to meet everyone's needs--60%
After looking at all the choices, it fit the best--42%
To include more moral or religious instruction--25%
Safety and physical health reasons--22%
There were six or seven other reasons but the argument is beyond dispute: the motives of parents to home school are reasonable, benign and across-the-board home-schooled children outperform public-schooled children academically, emotionally, and socially.
So many things to say, but I say them so often to those who advocate public school for every child that I always find myself editing my comments with no idea if anything I say is ever actually heard.
ReplyDeleteYour post isn't scathing enough to generate angry comments, in my opinion. I can't take offense, can't summon up any anger. I always just feel a little sad, or dejected---people I respect so much have scorn for my choices. I have a bachelor's in English, minor in Education (my university offered a two-year credential path, teaching under a licensed mentor, once you graduated with your degree in your subject matter). My first child went into first grade the year I graduated.
I'm editing already. It's impossible to tell you all the reasons that went into my and my husband's choice to homeschool our three children during their elementary years. Well, here is my profile: I'm a Democrat, I don't attend church, I support the right of every human being to have the rights given to any other human being (right now this means I actively support gay marriage)----
Oh, read almost any teacher's blog and you'll maybe understand why I couldn't send my children to the public schools. Elementary public education was so appalling to me. The thought of leaving my young children in the care of this one adult and these two or three administrators and these substitute teachers hired with almost no regard for---yikes, I'm going to have to edit.
I just couldn't do it. I tried to do my very best for my children just as I imagine any parent packing their child off to the public system is trying to do their best. We just really differ on what "best" might mean. My oldest child is now in his senior year at a University ranked in the top 20 in the US, he's an amazing writer, he takes the LSAT in a couple weeks, is soon to fill out his law school applications. My middle child is a university freshman, no idea what he wants to major in, shares an apartment with two friends----here I edit an embarrassing amount of information written to show you how wonderful and "normal" my children are. Personal fulfillment was always stressed, they all have different interests. They went into junior and high school looking like their peers and they respected their teachers and got glowing remarks from those appreciative teachers and many many letters of recommendation when the time came, and internships and awards and scholarships.
I chose to homeschool their elementary years (through 7th grade) and sent my children off to higher education when I felt they were ready. I met their teachers and was involved in the PTO/PTA. We were ready, all of us. I think they are happy, they are a joy to be around, they are SO FUNNY, really, excellent senses of humor, all of them. My two oldest let me know that they voted for Obama (both voted the first time this time), they both support human rights---
I don't know why I take on this sadness every time I read about homeschooling. Deep down I know that no matter my reasoning, I am still lumped in with those people I stay away from at all cost, people I consider so dangerous. Still such a stigma attached just because I wouldn't send my children, at 5, to public school.
--Lori
Having a son with Asperger's (high functioning autism)who was diagnosed after he started Kindergarten, I can't imagine that someone like me would have known how to teach this boy! He was always "difficult" and I thought it was payback for having 3 other children who were a breeze. After getting his diagnosis and the efforts of a great special education team, I have a son who is successful in school and has lots of potential.
ReplyDeleteIf I had kept him home, he would never have been diagnosed and would never have developed the social skills that are so difficult for him. He works hard at the social stuff - it will never be easy. But he's an artist, actor, wrestler, and football player - and this is possible because he is in a very good school system that encourages participation. How could I possibly put this kind of a program together for him from home?
It was the opposite for me. I attended public school through 1st to 10th grade, and was home-schooled for 11th and 12th grade, but not for religious reasons. My family are not crazy fundies. I was pulled out of public school because I DIDN'T want to interact with other people, which resulted in me playing hookie, A LOT. I was home-schooled by my mother, who is a liberal, an intellectual, and also a teacher for almost 40 years.
ReplyDeleteI did the SAT thing, graduated, and got a real diploma, and earned an art degree... Online. But still, I am a free-thinking progressive, and I think I turned out O.K. because of the lack of interaction with people. But, that's just my personal opinion, and experience. Which means nothing.
The mother in this story supports the family in style by working half time as an anesthesiologist - Dad stays home. Maybe health care reform should start here. These kids have one and a half homeschooling parents.
ReplyDeleteOK, how's this for a reason ?
ReplyDeleteI homeschooled (unschooled, actually) because the kids and I liked hanging out together in the wintertime. We were very busy farming from about April through October and winter was our downtime. And no, we didn't do a whole lot and what we did was determined by the kids. Oh no, I ruined their lives ! Not. Daughter is excelling as a third year medical school student at Creighton and son is getting ready to join his dad in our delivery business (year round) and taking journalism courses in college.
And yes they had lots of exposure to all kinds of people growing up.
Selling twice a week at farmers market will give you those opportunities. As well as teach you about finances and lots of other good stuff.
Let the religious people do as they see fit. They will anyway. But please understand that secular schooling is a kind of religion too . . .
I knew some college professors who homeschooled their children to decrease exposeure to negative things like drugs and because the schools were crap. They got together with other homeschooling parents, took turns teaching or pooled their money and hired people who were experts in different subjects. They were at different houses on different days of the week. This helped with socialization and childcare also. The parents could still work and homeschool their children by making it more of a cooperative effort. Their motives were totally non religous. When the kids got to junior high age they went to public schools because they had to learn to fit into society and peer groups are very important for adolescent development. They did very well because they were so far ahead of the other kids.
ReplyDeleteWhat an assumption that all radicals are home schooled. I will bet you $100.00 that at least 90% of the teabaggers are a product of the public school system. They may not have all graduated, but it was their only formal education. I allowed my four boys to do self directed learning. All are well rounded and amaze everyone with their outstanding social skills and abilities. No drugs, no smoking, have the odd drink once in a while. Very succesful, very well informed and far from radical. Sorry, not religious.
ReplyDelete@6:35 p.m., your data is old, dated and flawed.
ReplyDeleteMaybe others can point out all of your biases, but here are a couple:
1) Rudner's 1999 study is considered flawed: "a self-selected sample of fewer than 12,000 families recruited from among the membership of the Home School Legal Defense Association."
2) Wash. Times is not considered a legit news source.
Many formerly home-schooled students have confessed to me privately (at the university level) that they feel a certain embarrassment about not having been in real school before. Many have worried that the educational deficit is impossible to overcome socially, academically, and emotionally.
I only know one person who was home-schooled, and she describes it now as a very lonely time in her life.
I am not convinced that most home school families do so to control what their kids learn. Gryphen, I seriously encourage you to get with IDEA or Raven or another home school program and meet some of these families. Many really, really want what is best for their children and they feel they can provide it with the help from the school systems. (I am the Anonymous poster from earlier). I think you latched on to a fringe group of home school families in your mind that isn’t all that many of the home school families-- and I think ADN did a lousy job of reporting. (and why am I surprised about that?)
ReplyDeleteI sent the ADN link to my friends and family outside. And then I had to spend all day yesterday on the phone explaining what it is my school district does for the home schooling families. WOW they said-- what a great support system. And no, I didn’t get that from the article. This type of support system with IDEA, Raven, ETC. doesn't exist in other states. And I wonder why not? Alaska is NOT the wild west of home schooling. And some pretty sane and educated families home school their children. I am a product of public school education. I often wonder why families want to home school their children. It is a tough job. But I support them in making good curriculum choices. I don't think there is any more mind control going on in home schooling than that happens in non-public schools.
Home-schooling in this nation has been "steeple-jacked" in much the same way as the churches. While there are legitimate and well-meaning parents who have a variety of needs to home-school their children, the fact remains that 22 million of this children are the subjects of indoctrination by the Dominionists aka evangelical extremists.
ReplyDeleteEducation vs. Edumucation in this country is now the new battle...sadly
Leah
http://www.godsownparty.com
...p.s. there is a lack of socialization (NOT to be confused with socialism...but you decide
ReplyDeleteThere was a court case in my area where parents of a home schooled student wanted their child to take part in the school district's sport programs. The local court ruled against the parent stating the student could not participate because he was not enrolled in the district. A similar ruling occurred a few years ago when a private school student wanted to play on the public school football team for a better chance at a sport's scholarship.
ReplyDeleteI applaud these rulings. The parent chose to not have the child attend the public school. Public school is all or nothing.
Unfortunately, a home schooled student loses many extra-curricular activity opportunities which no parent can duplicate.
Even if a parent can teach his child AP Math, AP English, Honors Social Studies, and Honors Chemistry (classes my son is taking at the public school), the child is still missing Speech and Debate, Orchestra, Chess Club, Robotics, Year Book, Cheerleading, Dance Team, Theatre, Swim Team, or French Club, but mainly, the chance to find their own interests.
However, if my public schools were lousy and the choices were all bad, I would consider home schooling my children.
Hmmm. I do believe Sarah Palin is the product of the public school system. Please don't tell me that public school ensures that a person will be properly socialized or smart enough to function. My twelve year old's writing and speaking skills put hers to shame.
ReplyDeleteAnd to the commenter who criticized the "faulty" data. I'm rather surprised that the irony of his own tactics escaped him since after criticizing the other poster he went on to use his vague and suspect data (he admits to knowing one homeschooler) as proof of anything.
I could easily point out plenty of publicly schooled students critical of their educational experiences in underfunded or dangerous schools. But I don't because I'm not ignorant enough to assume that this issue is black or white. That's not how truly educated people see the world.
R U flipping nutz?!?!?! I've got 7 kids in school! When would I have time to do squat, if I homeschooled? Now, if I lived somewhere where the schools were bad, say the inner city in Los Angeles, I might be tempted just to be sure my kids are safe. But not because I wanted them away from the world. I have a sister in law who homeschools. She has no life. She is dedicated to her children 24/7 and they are the most socially backwards kids I know. and can someone please sit the Duggars down and discuss how babies are made? And this woman homeschools when she's not giving birth. ughhh.
ReplyDeleteI, too, homeschooled my kids. I am ultra liberal. Didn't use textbooks. Kind of "unschooled." The kids had massive amounts of time to interact with others via 4H, volunteer work, etc. One is a senior in college, the other attended shcool for high school & got a full scholarship to PSU main campus (a big deal).
ReplyDeleteBUT...I did meet lots of fundies who homeschooled so their kids were never exposed to condomes, evolution of the F word. Some of these kids were the weirdest people I ever met, they knew nothing beyond what their church & parents allowed.
I must say, however, PA has homeschool law that requires teaching each subject, testing, kids must read 25 books a year -including 3 classics. All mustr be reviewed annually by a state certified homeschool teacher. Then the local school district reviews all of your stuff -in a portfolio. Very stringent.
Though it does take away a bit of your freedom, it does protect the child & once in a while a homeschool reviewer or district will call a parent out.
Otherwise, I think homeschooling is the bomb. Our son, who has a very low immune syatem spent his first 3 years in school & was deathly ill several times. Our daugher, who had a learning disability, did better at home working at her own pace.
Both were socialized and teaching classes to school students at a museum at the ages of 7 and 9. Both were out and about & active. But that was us...
Just like we've decided we don't need to go to church to be a spiritual family, we also don't feel we need to go to a traditional school to be educated. Since this is one of my favorite progressive blogs, it was disappointing and surprising to read your negative summary of homeschooling. Although there are families out there that would fit that bill (just as there are families in the school system), stereotyping is just not progressive!
ReplyDeleteKelly
I agree with one poster, my kids would NEVER want to stay home all day - they want to be in school with their friends. For my daughter, especially, she counts the days until school starts in September - even though we have a great time together in the summer - 3 kids, mom and dad.
ReplyDeleteAn aside: when, oh when will people stop bragging about their "brightest kids" - ? Face it folks, no one really wants to hear you talk about how bright and advanced and top of the class your kids are - no one, but you. It is a huge turn off to hear boasting. I love my kids to death, but I try to speak of them in humble terms. I keep their brilliance a family secret!
Q. "I don't understand how homeschooling works. When the child applies to college, what high school grades can they show? How can they ever compete in sports or debate club, chess team, etc.?"
ReplyDeleteMy kids were in 4H and FFA. Daughter figure skated, taught classes weekly, also played ice hockey. Son was involved in science clubs and attended many 4h camps and outtings. Both volunteered at a historical museum weekly teaching claased in period costume to school kids. A friend -who is a reading specialist for the local school, always ran a reading and writing summer camp. The kids went to that and met lots of other kids. They always had friends over, we always had a housefull of kids.
When we started homeschool most other homeschoolers in our area were total fundies. We did some things with their group like sports, disection classes, etc. But other stuff we avoided.
There are indeed crazies out there, but I think homeschooling has grown among the noncrazies. If done right, it is successful. The crazies kids would be screwed even if they were in school because they send them to crazy fundy schools. There are a few around her that I find downright scary. But, what they hey, gotta have crazies for the future, right?
I think a lot of the regulars of this blog are intelligent and properly home school their children for very good reasons. Their progressiveness draws them here. We should get home schooling opinions from the gang over on "the other" boards. Dollars to donuts, the main issue with public schools would be religious freedom. Or, perhaps, President Obama's brainwashing attempts.
ReplyDeleteIt's another misconception that homeschooled kids are "home all day." One of the things good home schoolers teach their children is the importance of community. That means they get out there in the community and interact with people of different ages and backgrounds. Like another poster here, we are vendors at the farmer's market and our kids enjoy a wide range of experiences both here in our rural community and in the city. The world doesn't consist of one peer group comprised of people all your age. Kids should be prepared to interact with everyone.
ReplyDeleteWhether homeschooling is appropriate is entirely dependent on the facts and circumstances. Some kids need the interaction with other students, while other kids prefer working on their own. Some parents will research the best home schooling methodologies and form coalitions with other parents for social interaction, while others send their kids to work on the computer with little supervision. Some areas have great schools easily available, while others have lousy schools or schools that require the kids to travel 30 miles or more.
ReplyDeleteAs a single working mom, I don't have the option of homeschooling, so I made sure my home was in an area with good public schools. But if I were in an area with bad schools, I would want to do as those professors Celia mentioned did. I would want to form a coalition with other parents and divvy up the teaching to whichever parent can best handle the subject. So I might teach math, while another parent handles history and another covers biology. This way the children would have social interaction, albeit in smaller doses than public school would allow and get thorough coverage of each subject without any one parent being overloaded.
Well it is obvious that home education can work great & not so great. As one poster commented about the bragging (and doesn't want to hear it) I just want to clarify why the posters were saying it. It is proof that it can work. Unfortunately you can't see our kids so that is how we show proof.
ReplyDeleteMy story: I did home school my kids. The oldest from 3-9th and then he went to our public school from 10-12th. The youngest from 1st-8th and then he went to our public HS as well. I took & take education very seriously. We did more at home than my kids did at school once they got there. They never finished one book ever in HS. I am not complaining I am just using this for comparison. Plus all that work your kids are doing at home - we finished during the day so that we had a LIFE!
To make a long story short we did it because my oldest was very bright. He was bored out of his freakin' mind in school. The younger one was very bright as well but he needed more help to stay focused. Had either of them stayed in school in their younger years I think they would have turned out completely different and not for the good.
In OH we had to notify the school board & let them know what we were teaching with a table of contents for each book. They did not require any testing but I had my kids tested with the Iowa Achievement Test every year to make sure we were on track & for proof that I was doing my job.
It also gave us the freedom to travel extensively & they got to see places we studied. We also belonged to a home school group (large one). The only thing bad about it was there were mostly fundamentalist people but their kids were very nice. It always amazed me that some of these people didn't care if their daughters were well educated because they were not going to college but would get married young. Insane!
When I went to register my oldest the counselor was very very against it. Thankfully I had the testing because once she saw he was in the top 98% it was a completely different story. His HS teachers were very skeptical of home schoolers too. To make a long story short the kids did great and both graduated at the top of their class (not bragging I swear - I am the first to throw out the ridiculous Xmas brag letters). The teachers loved them & they still keep in contact with them. They were in all kinds of clubs and had many friends.
They were both accepted to one of the top unis in country with free tuition. One just graduated and is headed to London to get his masters in a couple of days. He did great in college, had a double major, and was in a million clubs (the president of some too). The youngest is getting a double degree in mathematics & physics with a minor in philosophy. He is the VP of his favorite club.
I have NO qualms at all if people have to prove that they are doing a good job unlike many people who didn't want the big gov in their business. All in all I still think that any kid will be successful if their parents love them. How many kids are being abused at home in public schools? Lots!
Love ya Gryph - I am not offended in any way. I wish their were no bad parents at all. I think that you should have to have a license:)
I also agree with Geoffrey Dunn's article about the fundies home schooling with every intention to add more teabaggers to their crazy train. These people would do this whether they are in any school setting or non-traditional school setting. Scary! Scary! Scary!
Oh, I forgot to mention this in my previous post. IMHO, regardless of who is conducting the homeschooling, there should be some monitoring by the state. At least once a year (preferably 2-3 times) the child should be tested academically and meet with a counselor. If the child is not keeping up with or surpassing his/her grade level, the parent will need to provide a plan that will bring the child up to grade level or place the child in either a public or private school. If the counselor notes any signs of abuse (physical or emotional) CPS should be called in.
ReplyDeleteMy anecdotal evidence is not "faulty." My anecdotal evidence, from working in classrooms and in my personal life, was not compared to the studies.
ReplyDeleteIt was in the paragraph below it. If you do a bit of research on the data presented by that poster, you will see how old and biased it is. (If you want to claim the Wash. Times as a go-to source, be my guest.)
However, YOU are presenting anecdotal evidence here as well, talking about your own kids; your data is just as faulty as mine. Or, in other words,: my personal experience with home-schooling is just as valuable as yours.
Controlled studies do not count in the same category as anecdotal evidence from educators, and I never claimed they did.
It is obvious that those who home-school feel defensive, and like others, I don't really enjoy offending you. But as an educator, I do have considerable experience seeing it on the other end.
Oops this thread kind of got away from me.
ReplyDeleteEverybody take a breath.
Now look we CANNOT lump all home schooling parents into the same category. I tried to define the difference between those who choose to homeschool because of safety concerns, poor local school choices, and academically gifted children whose needs are not met by the public school, from those who choose it to keep their children from learning anything that will make them resist the prejudices and superstitions of their parents
I have allowed the debate on this thread to happen organically, as much as possible, but now it seems to have taken on a negative attitude toward ALL homeschoolers.
There are plenty of wonderful parents that homeschool their children, and are visitors to this site. They are not the subject of my post.
We cannot, and should not, condemn all people who chose to homeschool their kids. That is not a progressive value. And it is false to make the assertion that everybody who keeps their children out of public school does so for nefarious purposes. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
So please make sure that whatever opinion you share on this thread takes into consideration the feelings of those who are teaching their children to be smart, capable, and open minded in the comfort and safety of their home.
Namaste.
"Communism! "Save our democracy!""
ReplyDeleteWe have a republic, not a democracy.
Oops, In my post I said Geoffrey Dunn's article I think it was actually the Schaeffer dude.
ReplyDeleteAnd I also noticed that I used "their" instead of "there". I hate when I don't notice things like that. Thankfully my kids don't follow my bad examples!
By the way, did anyone read the (name?) Bagala (I think that's how you spell it) on HuffPo yesterday. Great zinger about Palin & her death panels. Very good article. If you look for it it was about the teabaggers.
Anaonymous@ 8:29
ReplyDeleteClearly, your knowledge of statistics does not exceed the most elementary level of knowledge.
The size of a population to insure confidence levels can be as small as 50.
How many subjects do you think MercK reexamined the problems with Vioxx? Twelve thousand?
Hardly.
The new study funded by Merck employed six scientists who worked on plus two statistics experts at the University of Wisconsin who were not involved then, the company .
The number of subjects studied was 2,587 but the study was halted
after 34 people taking Vioxx suffered heart attacks.
More recently a phase-II single arm study study funded by the FDA to establish a correlation between Thalidomide and Lymphoma Patients had a target sample group of 16 patients.
Longitudinal studies clearly are approached differently. Nonetheless, a sample size of 7,500 is far larger than necessary for hypothesis testing.
A longitudinal twin study to determine personality and major depression in female women was conducted on 1733 twins.
I could fill an encyclopedia with such examples--if not the entire wing of a library.
Insofar as the Washington Times goes, could you exhibit bias any more
acutely. If that paper came out with documentation suggesting Palin did fake her pregnancy, you and others with your prejudices would elevate it as a source of impeachable information on the level with Einstein's Theory of Relativity.
"I don't understand how homeschooling works. When the child applies to college, what high school grades can they show?"
ReplyDeleteHomeschooled kids we know in several families (in KY) are taught that way because of their parents' ultra conservative religious beliefs. Their plan is for their children to attend an ultra-conservative college or university, such as Oral Roberts U, or Liberty in VA. I imagine even a not-too-bright evangelical Christian homeschooled kid would have very little trouble getting into college...provided, of course, they had the right point of view. ;-)
Re: "Anecdotal evidence".
ReplyDeletePerhaps Gryphen has met enough home-schooled children to make his
"anecdotal" evidence worth considering.
Such evidence, even if limited to the observation of a single person, may portend something much larger.
When Semmelweis noted ONE small group of doctors and medical students proceed from the morgue to the wards without washing their hands he intuitively suspected he might have discovered a contributing factor to the epidemic of childbed fever.
Just ONE creditable witness is enough to put a defendant on death row.
"Anecdotal" evidence should not be dismissed out of hand because it has not been subjected to experimental design which has had collosal
failures (i.e., Thalidomide and the teratogenic potential of numerous class III-antiarrhythmic drugs. ...).
Here is the article I was talking about above:
ReplyDeletePaul Begala, A Sign of the Times, HuffPo
Well, Anon at 11:52, by your own admission the anecdotal evidence of students who graduate from the public school system unable to read can hardly be dismissed either.
ReplyDeletePfft. Please....
To Gryphen: Thanks. You are a real class act. We appreciate your fairness.
Anecdotal evidence (for the poster who don't seem to know what it means in this context) ="Based on personal observation, case study reports, or random investigations rather than systematic scientific evaluation: anecdotal evidence." Look it up.
ReplyDeleteFor the poster who doesn't understand why the Rudner study is considered biased, it is not the # of people involved, it is the source who funded it, and the fact that it is 10 years old. It has nothing to do with statistics.
For those who defend the Wash. Times, that's the same paper R. Stacy McCain worked at...You know, the terrific guy who went after Gryphen and is going after Audrey. So please, go ahead, keep defending those stats and that source if you want to....
Morgan: You're right. The problem, I think, is one of determining causation.
ReplyDeleteWould those who have benefitted from home-schooling done equally well in public school and would those who seemed somehow harmed by public schooling been any better off if home schooled?
I don't think there are simple answers. On balance, it is my opinion public school poses more problems than the alternative but that is only a theory that I can never prove simply because I may be wrong.
Wow ! Hot topic ! I am the poster above who just hung out with the kids in the winter after farming all summer. (Well, they did lots of other stuff too and it was their choice whether to go to school or not.) The thing is, 'school' is a sort of indoctrination too. Just of a different sort. I attended a fundamentalist school myself as a child (not from a particularly religious family, for some reason my parents thought the teaching was better altho it wasn't) and I know firsthand what the fundies are all about. If you got that at both school and home, or through religious based homeschool, it would be pretty intense. But I do think humans come here to learn certain things through the situations they find themselves in, and that's just how it is. I have serious issues with public schools too -- they are funded by my tax dollars, why are they only available to the public on the school district's schedule ? Where are the summer programs and the evening adult learning programs ? Why shouldn't home schooled kids be able to participate in school sports ? Don't their parents pay for the schools too ? Why do we treat these public facilities like some sort of secular churches, which only outsiders dare to criticize ? The schools are still in the 20th century, but we are not. (This from someone who remembers hiding under her desk from the Bomb during the Cuban Missile Crisis -- basically how schools function is pretty much the same now as then).
ReplyDeleteAnon at 5;31, my thinking on this is that a child with committed parents is going to do well no matter where they are educated because parents are always such an important factor in the equation.
ReplyDeleteI'm not afraid of the public school system because - unlike some of my paranoid homeschooling acquaintances - I don't fear that putting my kids in the system would mean "losing" them. I haven't lost my grown children to adulthood. We're as close as ever!
I will say that more parents are able to deal with public school as a support player than are able to take the homeschooling route, where they are the primary educator. It is a LOT of work. And curriculum gets more expensive each year. If I were to put a value on the time I spend teaching....I don't even want to think.
But it's so rewarding to our family to do it this way and each year the kids - who have the option to go to public school if they want - choose this route instead. I think they enjoy the freedom, the chance to learn at their own pace and the chance to travel or do other things that a regular school year wouldn't allow.
To FYI: I'll simply repeat my earlier point that truly educated people do not shade things in black or white. There are home schoolers who excel. There are home schoolers who fail. There are public school students who excel. There are public school students who fail. I don't think you can convince anyone here that qualified parents should not at least have the option to make the educational decisions that are best for their families.
And yes, McCain has gone after Gryphen and Audrey and even me. But to say that because McCain worked for a paper that printed a pro-homeschooling study that the study is therefore invalidated hardly sounds like scientific reasoning. It sound more to me like a bit of twisted logic from someone who has failed to prove his point.
The Washington Times has been invalidated for many, many articles. Do you know who owns it?
ReplyDeleteFrom Wikipedia: "The Washington Times is a daily broadsheet newspaper published in Washington, D.C., the capital of the United States. It was founded in 1982 by Unification Church founder Sun Myung Moon and is subsidized by the Unification Church community. The Times is known for its conservative stance on political and social issues."
ReplyDeleteSo a paper owned by Moonies runs a pro-homeschool article. Therefore homeschooling is wrong...
ReplyDeleteSeriously, that's the best argument against homeschooling that you can offer?
Please tell me you aren't a teacher. If you are please tell me you don't teach a class in logic.
@Morgan, with all due respect. You have been unable to track my specific points from the start. I realize you are very defensive on this issue. Perhaps that is why you are using ad hominem attacks (which, by the way, are categorized under "logical fallacy"). Please stick to the points I am actually arguing if you continue to respond; I would greatly appreciate that. Thanks.
ReplyDelete1) As an educator, I have seen the "other side," that home-schooling parents do not see. Some home-schooled kids I have taught at the undergraduate university level (have not seen any grad students who were home-schooled) express enormous insecurity and embarrassment at their lack of experience with "real school."
2) One study cited by a poster above is considered out of date (10 years old) and biased due to the funding source. The Wash. Times is not a good source either. I did not post these sources; I commented on them.
3) My anecdotal evidence is just as valid as anyone else's. My 25 years experience teaching at the undergraduate and graduate level in the American university system does qualify as "anecdotal evidence." It is just as valid as any testimonial from a parent who has participated in home-schooling.
4) I mentioned only know PERSONALLY one individual, a hairdresser, who was home-schooled. (All my other friends went to public or private schools, as did every member of my family.) This home-schooled person expressed to me that it was a very lonely time in her life. She is entitled to her opinion as well, even if it does not corroborate your hopes and experience.
5) I have not tried to disabuse you of your notion that home-schooling is good. I have expressed my own opinion based on my experiences. Please, continue to think that it is good. At this point, I don't care what you think, but I do care that you carelessly continue to mischaracterize my remarks.
I have shared my experience from "the other side," as an educator, who hears from students the things they might not want to share with their parents. It is not up to me to prove, via studies, that home-schooling is good or bad. I did not introduce the topic (Gryphen did). I did not bring up statistics first; that was another poster. Perhaps you should speak directly to them about the sources they are using if you admire them and their post.
Morgan:
ReplyDeleteI think my beliefs have been skewed by of all things a line from an episode of "Mash".
Hawkeye came down with a virulent rash that closed down his airways. Sidney, the army shrink in the area pays him a visit. They were friends although Sidney knew little about his past.
Sidney discovers something buried in Hawkeye's unconscious: Hawkeye's cousin an older boy who Hawkeye worshipped pushed him out of a canoe one day, held the panicking kid's head under water, and laughed.
Hawkeye said, "Sydney, the things I see here--the horrors of war...the carnage...the loss of life every day--they've never "scarred me".
Sydney said something that was profoundly insiteful,
"Hawk," he said somewhat paternally. "The worst wounds are suffered in the school yards."
An overgeneralization? Sure. In fact, however, the kid in public school must confront a caste system, frequently seriously disturbed bullies,
teachers who for no apparent reason dislike them and hold others in high regard, and more devastatingly, often allow certain kids to be ridiculed by classmates while teachers either join in the sport or look away.
I think home-schooling is as much pre-emptive as it is exclusionary.
Anonymous @ 8:12
ReplyDeleteFirst, one cannot discard a study because it is 10-years old, particularly
if it has been replicated. (I may be guilty of misattribution here but I believe it was you who dismissed the study because of it's sample side, which is a comprehensively weak rebuttal.)
How many years ago was it that the experiments of Heisenberg lead to the "Uncertainty Principle"?
Second, while the source of funding for an experiment could cast suspicion on the results, if we summarily throw out experiments funded by pharmaceutical companies in the development of drugs or companies that develop medical technology, we probably would be left with a pharmacopeia that consisted of aspirin and cod liver oil and surgical suites that allowed doctors to only use a scalpel and sutures.
Again insofar as the Washington Times goes, your argument in that case is particularly hollow.
Consider this opening paragraph from an editorial today:
"Democrats pushed through a resolution yesterday rebuking Rep. Joe Wilson, South Carolina Republican, for breaching House rules when he shouted "You lie" during President Obama's Sept. 9 speech to Congress. This was nothing more than a cheap political stunt based on cynical, race-baiting politics."
Does this paragraph have any less merit because it appeared in the Times as opposed to the Christian Science Monitor?
If anecdotal evidence is a litmus test that you believe infallibly supports wider generalizations than I shall counter your "hairdresser" anecdote with one of my own.
This home-schooled 17-year old attended a local junior college, from there proceeded to Annapolis, subsequently entered Naval Aviator Training and is today serving as a Hornet pilot aboard the U.S.S Ronald Reagan.
Another followed a similar career path but was accepted to Harvard after scoring just this side of 1400 on his SAT test and, I believe, is a lock to get into medical school at Chapel Hill.
The list of those I've met while serving in the Air Force and travel;ling a great deal is impressive. I suppose there are many I will never meet who
are psychologically inhibited.
The question remains one of correlation and that question remains unanswerable since you can never put the genie back in the bottle.
Would the "lonely" individual have been any less lonely if attending public school?
The loneliest period of my life was when I was attending University.
I do not doubt the integrity of your "anecdotal" experience. I have conceded it may contain the seed of the greater truth.
You, however, have yet to respond to the deficiency of the study I produced with any form of empiricism.
If there are holes in the research I cited--other than your unsupported opinion--I am open to reviewing research which contradicts this longitudinal study and if on the merits, the study you produce seems
more persuasive, I will acknowledge that.