Getting named the local paper's Person of the Year was supposed to be an honor for small-town politician Dean Zuleger. But the award only enraged many townspeople.
Readers anonymously flooded the Wausau Daily Herald's Web site with comments bashing Zuleger's salary, his management style, his weight. One person suggested his third chin should have been nominated.
"I have just two words for Dean Zuleger, and they are ... A) anger management. B) salad bar. C) Rod Blagojevich. D) all of the above. The correct answer is D.," one posting read.
Zuleger, administrator of the Wausau suburb of Weston, demanded to know who was saying all those nasty things about him, and the paper did something unusual: It handed over one critic's e-mail address. The politician then sent a letter on official stationery telling the commenter, businessman Paul Klocko, to stop the personal attacks and "come out from behind the cloak" and meet him.
The episode has added fuel to the debate over anonymity on the Internet and how far readers who aren't willing to use their names should be allowed to go.
My answer to the above query is; "When it comes to simply expressing their opinion, an anonymous commenter should be allowed to say whatever they want as long as they are not threatening anyone, or making up falsehoods about an individual. And if they are found to be doing either their comment should be removed by the webmaster, but their anonymity should remain intact."
The argument for allowing a person to comment anonymously is illustrated quite effectively in the above article. Once the identity of the commenter was revealed the politician immediately tried to intimidate them into silence.
(If that does not do the trick perhaps they will have their lawyer send an e-mail with a cease and desist order. We all know how well THAT works.)
The internet is a place where words are the instrument through which we define ourselves.
It allows the timid to be verbose, the bullied to find courage, and the downtrodden to discover hope. Through the web we can connect with others who feel our pain, share our concerns, and even dream our dreams.
And we can say the things that we dare not say in the presence of authority.
There is a reason that ballots are cast without names attached, why notes in the suggestion box are unsigned, and why "anonymous" is most often the name attached to comments on this blog.
Because anonymity empowers that person to be honest. To say, vote, or suggest what is in their heart without fear of retribution or embarrassment.
Sure there are some who will abuse the privilege of anonymity. They will lie, attack, and insult at will without fear of discovery. But that is just an infinitesimal portion of the people who take the time to write, or post anonymously. And isn't that a small price to pay to allow others to speak openly and honestly?
As for those who DO leave a comment with a name attached, I believe most of us realize that more often then not it is not their actual name. And if it happens to be, then clicking it rarely reveals a great deal about the person. So to one degree or another almost everybody on the internet is pretty anonymous.
And speaking for myself, how anonymous was I really?
The people who visited here knew my views on religion and politics, how I felt about current affairs, which were my favorite movies, and my favorite kind of food (pizza).
They knew the depth of my love for my daughter, how much I enjoy living in Alaska, and how bad I am at marriage. Trust me you all know a lot more about me then the people I work with ever will.
And it is not that I don't take ownership of my opinions, nothing could be further from the truth.
THAT is what the comments section is for. And as many of you know I usually let the bad in right along with the good. (I apparently have a thicker skin than Dean Zuleger in the above article) It does not mater if they know how tall I am or the color of my eyes (baby blue). What they agreeing or disagreeing with are my ideas, not my looks or occupation. And that is just about as personal as it gets.
And regardless of what people have learned (or thought they learned) about me, the fact remains that I will ALWAYS be Gryphen on this blog.
Just like AKM forever remains AKM to her loyal readers, I am now and always will be simply Gryphen.
And I will continue to be defined by what I type on this keyboard, and that is far more revelatory than anything you could possibly learn by meeting me on the street.
But if I failed to adequately make my point about the importance of anonymity allow me to refer you instead to someone far more eloquent than I.
Dean Zuleger has more chins than a Chinese phone book.
ReplyDeleteOn the skeptoid.com site, the top of the comments sections has a statement saying, "Remember, you should always read with skepticism the comments of anyone too lame to put their real name & city." I like that. Doesn't tell any one not to put their name, just gives more credence to those who do.
ReplyDeleteThe only reason I end up posting anonymous on here is that I haven't gotten the site to accept my wordpress name and I'm too impatient to futz around with it. :-)
Oops...I meant it "doesn't require anyone to put their name". Sorry.
ReplyDeleteGryphen are you still working on babygate? in your post about this topic, I believe you said you were getting a headache.
ReplyDeleteYou also said you were on the phone with media to get them to look into it.
Not a presure posting, just hoping for an update soon and really hoping that you are not giving up. Thanks
Gryphen is right on.
ReplyDeleteThere are plenty of people out there who need a voice. Anonymity is a way for people to say what they really think without fear of retaliation personally, politically, professionally, or otherwise.
One reason I don't attend political rallies is fear of retaliation related to my professional position. I can't comment publicly on anything controversial based on my professional position -- no letters to the editor, etc. The internet blog and news site "comments" sections give me a chance to weigh in on issues that are important to me without fear of being identified. I am grateful for that opportunity.
But I have to say, I do wonder if at some point I could be identified. Gryphen -- how do these blogs work? When we comment anonymously (here or elsewhere), is there a way to identify us? I'd really like to know. Thanks.
I am of two minds, having been someone who "sued the big boys" and with whom they "played hard ball" affecting the rest of my life.
ReplyDeleteHowever, IF ONLY comments directly addressing issues were allowed, I would vote for remaining anonymous.
BUT, when snark, snide, facetious (my personal favorite)sarcastic, AS WELL AS IRRELEVANT comments are made, adding nothing to the discussion, then forums become "free for alls" and in situations like that, either the comments should not be published or the writer's name should be posted. (NOT addresses however.)
To have a level playing field, the party commenting as well as the party commented upon need to know who the other party is.
Having said all that, I would NEVER "out" someone and anyone who does is plain wrong.
I don't think "The Alaska Ear" should be anonymous; the author's name should be posted with earch article. All newspaper editorials should post the author's name. ESPECIALLY NEWSPAPER ARTICLES.
I know my comments here will be bashed, but fair is fair and part of the character building that comes from having the courage of your convictions is the risk taken when you speak out loud.
Speaking out loud, speaking up, carries almost nil validity unless the reader knows the writer and has some real reason to invest in that writer's words.
I do understand ---been there done that!-- how standing on your hind legs and opposting city hall, the government, political machines, idiot fundamentalist etc can be scary as hell. Sorry people, that is part of and parcel of "putting it on the line."
Nothing I have said here should be taken as any kind of personal affront to Gryphen. I dont know him well, but know him enough (personally) that he is not "anonymous" to me.
Too often when blogs & the comments are anonymous, things degenerate to the point that I have to check and be sure I am not on c4p. Sorry, but yes, there are "nut cases and whackos" on the left and in the progressive parties as well. I see this happening on all my favorite blogs and it is a lowering of the bar that should not and need not occur.
onejrkitty--so how come you didn't sign your name??????
ReplyDeleteI remember when the other Morgan suddenly took down her website due to threats to her family. (That Morgan was a photo expert who could enhance and change the lighting on pictures of Sarah Palin which showed a flat stomach weeks before a 6 pound baby was going to be born). She may have come too close to the truth for some unhappy readers; we like to think so.
ReplyDeleteI wrote to Audrey, asking her to contact Morgan in regard to the theats. I had assumed that the threats were emailed. We had just had our computer guru here doing some kind of work or another, so I posed the question to him. Can an anonomyous comment or email be traced electronically, and how does that work?
His response was that it could be traced. In Morgan's case, since it was a threat of violence, it would be easy to get a court order from a law enforcement organization, since her safety and the safety of her family was involved. But, he emphasized, that kind of trace required a court order. An individual would not have the technical ability to do it alone. But we should all know that those electrons have a way of being traced; we should all be careful in on-line comments.
I agree with Gryphen's expression of the need for anonymous comments; I choose that profile as well. It is a useful tool for discussion purposes because we concentrate on the value of the statement, not the speaker. And, it is a tool that should not be abused to issue threats of violence, intimidation, hatred. I enjoy reading the comments here so much that I rarely note the blue name of the commenter. I enjoy the humor, the ideas and the fact that there is a good give and take. Thanks, Gryphen, for the format and the meeting place.
I am also able to identify the origin of posters through there IP addresses but would never consider doing such a thing unless there were a very real and very believable threat made here.
ReplyDeleteI have never found the need to do such a thing and doubt I will ever do so in the future.
This is an odd topic for me, as I fought religiously for years on my own community boards against anonymous posting, which was tearing our small town newspaper website asunder.
ReplyDeleteMy argument was that all of us should be willing and brave enough to state our names ESPECIALLY as we all had to bump into each other with our shopping carts at the grocery, or talk about our children at school. . .to do otherwise was to degrade intimate community discourse and render it meaningless. I always pointedly volunteered my real name.
But I don't posit that argument on the national internet scene. It's not out of cowardice: I would gladly post my real name and stand the cost of a plane ticket if you wish to throw a brick at my window or physically wrestle me to the floor. Steal my identity if you want, the proceeds will NOT get you all the way to Brazil. You will fall into the ocean halfway. I'm too old and stiff necked to worry about your passionate response.
And, frankly, think twice if you knock on my door. I'm kinda scary. In a kinda way. . .
I have even, at certain times, posted my full name, my address, phone number and email in response to such foolishness. It still can be Googled by my own bad self, whenever I want to remind myself of how courageous I am.
But you know what moves me more often than not to post Anonymous? It's the darn mechanics of the thing. I can't keep track of all the monikers and the Yahoo and Google and WordPress identities and the various and sundry requirements and hoops to jump through of the different blog sites. . .it makes me dizzy. When I want to respond, I want to respond. I'm tired of asking and reasking what my password is. . .
Damn laziness and inability to deal with delayed gratification! That's what that is!
I LOVE sites that let me rip within seconds with an Anonymous and I figure that folks like Gryph get who I am through the email address. They know I am consistent and honest even if the rest of you don't!
Signed, Anonymous.
When I was an Associate Professor for a university, I had to be very clear that any comments I made were not on behalf of the university. I made a rabid book review for the local paper, and asked them to put in a disclaimer. Perhaps we would have to have disclaimers for every posting on the internet, and that would be tedious.
ReplyDeleteI'm still trying to weigh it all out. Things posted anonymously have to be taken with "a grain of salt" since there is no way to consider the source and evaluate more thoroughly what has been said. Remaining anonymous does give some freedom to let loose and say what's on one's mind, and I would hope that people would post with integrity and honesty; sadly that can't always be counted on. People have become accustomed to posting anonymously online now, so changing it would be a huge uphill endeavor. It's too bad that there are situations where people feel the need to hide in anonymity; I wish people were reasonable and respectible enough so that we could find no reason to remain anonymous, but alas that it not the case. :-(
ReplyDeleteI don't know if there's an open thread on the website anywhere to ask general questions, but I am wondering where to find a copy of Vanity Fair with Levi's interview in it. All I have found on newstands so far is the Sept. issue with Farrah or Michael on the cover.
ReplyDeleteO/T but I thought you might enjoy this letter to the editor of the Santa Clarita (CA) paper. The submission is not anonymous.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.the-signal.com/news/article/18125/
I use my name, but Gryphen is correct. If you click on it, you will not find anything out about me. Ask me nice...I will tell you.
ReplyDeleteI do have blogger account that I use for my own writing. When I first began commenting on the Alaskan blogs, some of the palinites did not like what I had to say. I ended up with some nasty comments on my personal blog. It didn't hurt my feelings. However that blog is one that I discuss bipolar disorder and other personal things. lol..it was kind of embarrassing to have to explain to my friends who visit me there, why these comments were there. Ultimately I deleted them, and made it so that I have to authorize the comments. No big deal...but I just didn't want the likes of some of those nasty folks commenting on my blog, or finding my friends with similar illnesses, and insulting them on their blogs.
We all know just how trollish some of those folks are.
Anonymity is a good thing sometimes.
I deeply appreciate Gryphen letting us post here and not censoring. Palingates also. It is hard however sometimes to discern one anon from another. Some say I am anon@ whatever their fist post is and that helps to know which person you are responding too.
ReplyDeleteThanks Gryphen :)
Gryph, if you create an anonymous blog post, it's not wrong unless you fool yourself into thinking that you will never be outed.
ReplyDeleteOne can never write something anonymously that one would not stand behind in the light of day.That is my only 'rule' regarding anonymity. You have to live with yourself and your own bad words. Into internet infinity. Surely you never thought your anonymity would be infinite? Um, did you?
Your internet presence has never deviated from from Gryph/Anonymous to the Gryph/Real. Not a surprise to me, but do know that, nonetheless, this has been appreciated and admired.
And continues to be.
Just watch out for those shopping carts, willya? They're lethal.
And so what is your point Gryphen?
ReplyDeleteAnyway, here's something for you to post: I'm firmly convinced that Audrey didn't receive threats which caused her to stop her blog. Sure, she has probably received some threats and you would know that that comes with doing this. Rather, Audrey just came to the point where she had spent a great deal of time and effort with her blog and thought that it was time to let it go. Sadly, she didn't fess up to the truth that it was just becoming an albatross around her neck. Not to mention that her husband was probably beginning to object to it too. IMO.
Otherwise, it was the golden opportunity to strike back at the lowlife who wrote the threats. I mean let's face it, who wouldn't give it up after so long with no concrete results and no success in getting the chickenshit media on board?
So good for Audrey, and I appreciate her long involvement and hard work. But I ain't buyin the threat thing!
Blogspot does not give access to IP addresses. Finding the "origin" of a commenter is nothing more than a geographical area. And if an IP address could be seen(which it cant be here) the worst that could be done is a report could be made to their service provider, and they take it from there. But no one, especially not a blogger could find an anonymous poster with thier IP address. Do not let that scare you. Gryphen or any other blogger could not find you by posting on their blogs anonymously.
ReplyDeleteSarah Q, my aren't we the cynic? I feel sorry for you-are you always so mistrustful. It's quite sad that you think people lie so easily. You are wrong ,sorry she was threatened and if you bothered to read a few different websites, you would know that. So Sarah Q, sometimes people do tell the truth.
ReplyDeleteJust an FYI, you cannot find out who someone is by their IP address. I do not think it is that easy. You can usually only find out their provider and very general location. Some IT professionals can find out though.
ReplyDeleteI am glad Gryphen allows us to post anonymously. Most of the time I sign my name but sometimes I don't feel feel like it and appreciate i don't have to write it out.
Love the clip!
ReplyDeleteI use Anonymous because from early on there was a person who made a comment about those anonymous bloggers in pajamas. And during an interview I heard that same person ask for the name of the person who said something negative about her. Well, nuff said.
Without a name, or a face, or any other uniqueness of a person, an anonymous person's thoughts and opinions are not burdened by prejudices. Or distracted by red lipstick and winks.
To Sarah Q, I can't speak for all of the PD followers, but I think that most of us do believe the threats. The reason is that they were posted on several Right Wing Bloggers' websites, and they took particular relish in their dirty work.
ReplyDeleteI will not name the Bad Boys because followers of Gryphen know that they also handed Gryphen the same kind of treatment. If you don't believe me, you can do your own detective work by googling palin's deceptions outed or gryphen outed and follow the links.
Years ago, I met our local TV critic in a social situation. I had written him a funny letter which he mentioned. Then, as the conversation continued, he told me that he used to get three threatening letters a month. By the time we talked, it was more like three a week. He is no longer the TV critic, but I am willing to bet that people who place themselves in any kind of public situation get some pretty vicious hate mail. Can you imagine threatening to murder the TV critic because he didn't like your favorite program?? That was the nature of his mail.
We have all seen the pure hatred demonstrated by the T-Baggers at any of their public meetings. The signs, the hate-filled rhetoric; they come armed and dangerous. So, it is understandable when anyone posts an opinion or blog, they do not want to attract the same kind of nasty comments. People are not getting more civil, and manners have all but disappeared. And we are all a little bit afraid that they may carry their anger to another level. Let's hope not.
O.K. girls, let's try this one more time. I already said that bloggers get threatened and I said that Gryphen could vouch for that. Audrey got threats too of course. What I also did say was that IMO Audrey didn't quit because of some threats. You two anons in fact spelled out one of the reasons why Audrey quit. She was outed and she got cold feet. And the other reason was that she just got tired of doing it and not making any real progress by getting the MSM to join in. It's obvious she couldn't continue to do it forever girls!
ReplyDeleteBut look, if Palin is a nutcase and a dangerous politician then it's not up to Audrey to destroy her. You people have a responsibility to do it and you have failed. Palin will rise again and she will be doubly dangerous because she will have learned to answer questions from people such as Couric and others who want to expose her.
The main problem is that the left has no commitment in the U.S. to any political cause. The left will sit on their hands and be led to the slaughter by the rabid right. Combine that with the simple fact that the left is ashamed of being and showing social responsibility toward others because Americans are born waving a flag and never escape it. For example, mention Canadian healthcare and say that Canadians are commies and leftist Americans slink away with their tails between their legs. No backbone, no commitment, no social consciousness, just very easily redbaited by rightwing Nazis.
(and yes, the Nazis were extreme rightists, not leftists)
If you people sit on your fat asses and sell out your president on healthcare reform then you will be getting just what you deserve.
I use anonymous because my name is not listed in the box. A click is easier than typing. If "Lazy" was in the box, I'd click that one.
ReplyDelete"V" is my all time favorite movie.
Please do not forget,
ReplyDeleteThe writers of the Federalist Papers were initially anonymous pamphleteers.
The rhetoric is quickly ratcheting up and signs are visibly calling for, almost, for civil war. Underestimate these people at your risk.
OK well, I beg to differ.
ReplyDeleteYou'll never be simple or simply Gryphen.
I think you're awesome.
Oh! My favorite movie of all time! V for Vendetta!!
ReplyDeleteI read your blog post this morning, and when I got to work, I read this article from our city's newspaer about people criticizing our police department on sites lik Twitter, facebook, etc. Some were misrepresenting themselves as officers, some were department employees and spreading lies. These people may be sued for libel.
It goes on towards the bottom of the article about anonymous speech online and lawsuits.
Here's the article: http://foxyurl.com/v5q
OK, I've decided to modify my Anon status from now on. . .(I'm the self-described lazy poster above, unafraid of window bricks) because I do see the frustration in people trying to address anonymous opinions and not knowing which ones belong to whom. . .I can see where that is crazy-making.
ReplyDeleteSo from now on I will still post Anonymous because it is easiest, but I will sign myself "Lazy P" for lazy poster, in the spirit of consistency. That way you can all call me out or agree with me properly.
This might also work for others.
Lazy P
Lazy P: Much appreciated :) Thanks for your consideration :)
ReplyDelete