The life of an Alaska blogger is never dull.
Okay well sometimes it is dull, but when it is not dull, it is REALLY not dull!
About two months ago, I received a call from a friend asking me if I wanted to bid on a lunch with Sarah Palin's attorney which was being offered at a silent auction to raise money for a Japanese immersion program at a local elementary school.
Me? Bid on a lunch with the lawyer who threatened to sue me and who may have been instrumental in outing my true identity? Well of course I would!
When I arrived at the school I found that only one person had made a bid on this lunch, and that was a member of the family who had put the packet together. I made my bid and waited to see if anybody else was going to outbid me.
Nope, my bid, the only real bid, was the winner and I picked up my packet and went home.
I had previously contacted my friend Linda, Celtic Diva, to ask if she wanted to go "halfsies" with me on the lunch. No hesitation whatsoever...yes she did.
A day or two later Linda contacted the person setting up the lunch and gave a nom de plume (We assumed that if we had identified ourselves as Alaskan bloggers Gryphen and Celtic Diva we would have received a refund and a "thanks, but no thanks"). After a number of false starts I finally received a phone call from Linda saying that we had a date for 11:45 yesterday, at a restaurant downtown.
I arrived early, which is my habit, and waited for Linda and Van Flein to arrive. Van Flein arrived first and sat down at a nearby table. I had hoped that Linda would have been there by then, but when I called her she was still several minutes away. Throwing caution to the wind I went up to Van Flein's table and introduced myself, by my real name, and said that I was his lunch date.
It took a second or two for him to understand just who was sitting across the table from him, but then I could see the realization slowly dawn over his face. For a moment he looked a little constipated, but I assured him that I was not going to make a scene or become aggressive.
"So you are Gryphen." He said.
"Yep, I am Gryphen." I replied. I did my best to smile and be as non-threatening as possible and he seemed to relax relatively quickly.
We talked about a few innocuous things for a minute or two until Linda arrived and then ordered our food. As we waited for our food to arrive the discussion turned to weightier topics.
We discussed blogging and the difference between that and journalism. Both Linda and I dismissed the notion that we were journalists, however I did add that we HAD done investigative journalism in the past though it was not strictly my comfort zone. I could not help but notice Van Flein kind of giving me a sideways glance with that statement, no doubt remembering when my "so-called journalism" brought us into direct conflict.
We covered a number of topics. Linda asked some questions pertaining to her specific e-mail request, which I will let her cover more fully in HER post about this lunch date. I will volunteer that he asked her if she had received her documents, at which time Linda was able to smile and say "Why yes I did."
Both Linda and I offered some advice for Van Flein to take back to his client. We talked about the perception that people had of her as a mother based on the photographs of her constantly carrying little Trig off of planes and buses in her high heel shoes and with his little legs exposed. I also suggested that she develop a thicker skin concerning news reports. I made the case that if they had ignored my story about their marital trouble it would have blown over in a day or so, but since Meg Stapleton issued a statement, and he sent me a letter threatening to sue me, it had validated my post and made national news.
Van Flein did not verbally respond but it did appear that he was listening.
Probably the most interesting exchange came when suddenly Van Flein leaned toward me and asked point blank: " Do you sincerely, honestly believe that Trig is not her baby?"
To which I replied: "Yes, I sincerely, honestly believe that Trig is not her baby. Do you sincerely honestly believe it is her baby?"
VF: "I have no doubt."
G: "No doubt because you were there and watched it pop out?"
VF: "Have you been in a hospital room for the birth of a child? There are usually three nurses, the anesthesiologist, pediatrician, maybe three MDs. Somebody is obligated under the laws of the State of Alaska to fill out an accurate report for Vital Statistics..."
G: "...right...the birth certificate...where is that?"
VF:" ...and they could lose their medical license if they falsify that. They'd need to have a whole bunch of people lying about something and willing to put their careers on the line."
G: "During the pregnancy, how often did you see her?"
VF: "I did not see her during the pregnancy at all. Whose baby do you think it is? What woman would give up her baby?"
G: "I do not know. That's one thing I actually cannot put together. I've said that point blank...I have no freakin' clue."
VF: "Just so you know, if you have convinced yourself this is the case and are trying to find proof of it, it undercuts everything else that you do. It's kinda like saying "9/11 is an inside job" or that OBAMA IS NOT A US CITIZEN. There's just some instances where rational people take a step back. This is fun to think of maybe but it's crazy."
VF: "You're asking for something short of a DNA test..."
G: "...birth certificate..."
VF:" ...that's a matter of public record...Isn't it recorded in the Mat-Su records with the other births recorded that day?"
G: "We're not talking about birth announcements but there never was a birth announcement and there was never a birth certificate provided by Sarah. Though she was asked by the McCain Campaign it was never provided." (To be honest this is a rumor that I heard, and not a verified fact. However does it not seem reasonable that the McCain campaign would have asked her for a document that would have put the whole baby story to rest? Instead she offered up her daughter's "pregnancy" as proof that she must Trig's mother. Now of course we realize that there were more than just two options.)
I have to say that Thomas Van Flein seemed genuinely to be under the impression that those records were readily available by request. And when I explained that we had tried and been unable to get ANY documentation he seemed mystified by that information, which I found sort of puzzling. He may have been lying, but my initial impression is that he was not.
Of course those of us who have been following the "babygate" story know there is much more to it then simply missing a certificate of live birth, or witnesses to the delivery. There are also pictures of a woman not visibly pregnant less than a few days shy of giving birth, the bizarre wild ride story, the disappearance of Cathy Baldwin-Johnson, not to mention the fact that Sarah's story keeps changing, (for example telling the ADN on April 21st, 2008 that there were no visible signs of Down's syndrome, and then telling People magazine that thirteen year old Willow had identified him as a Down's baby by simply looking at his little newborn face). I did not have time to bring up ALL of the inconsistencies in Sarah's stories, as we had finished eating and everybody had places to go.
We left the restaurant and said our good-bye's on the frigid Alaskan street. Van Flein seemed in no hurry to make his escape and even engaged in a little small talk before walking off toward his office.
My impression overall was that he was not a necessarily villain, though he had clearly played the part for Sarah Palin more than a few times. His threats against Shannyn Moore and myself being just two examples. Ultimately, in my opinion, he is like a Mafia hitman in that is it is not personal, it is just business.
And Thomas Van Flein is just another person caught up in the bizarre, not quite reality based, world of Sarah Palin. Unfortunately, for him, he has the unenviable job of trying to insulating her against the people who are going to recognize her lies and half-truths, and wish to confront her on them.
Perhaps it helps Thomas Van Flein not to know too much about the truth that Sarah Palin is trying so desperately to keep secret, for he seems to have little understanding of how many layers of obfuscation that Palin has applied to separate herself from the reality that threatens her personal mythology.
It must be nice to be so lacking in curiosity that you can ignore the logical inconsistencies in Sarah Palin's life story. Perhaps sadly for me I have an overabundance of curiosity an it will simply not be satiated until, I and everyone, else know the truth behind one the biggest lies ever foisted upon the American people.
Update: Here is Celtic Diva's post on our now famous lunch date.
As you indicate it doesn't pay an attorney to know too much about his clients problem.
ReplyDeleteIt simply doesn't pay.
He sounds genuinely unaware, and really believes Mrs. Palin.
And he will be shocked when he finds out he is a dupe.
Thank you for the Christmas present. I loved reading this post and am hoping that soon we will see $arah being represented by someone else. Hopefully you have planted a few questions in his brain that will make him see what $arah is really like. I hope he jumps ship before it sinks.
ReplyDeleteCarrie
Holy CRAP, Gryph! Man, how did you manage to keep this pending lunch date quiet for so long? I would have been bursting at the seams!
ReplyDeleteWell, well, well....he really thinks Trig is her baby. Is he a parent? Because I can't think of a solitary guy who's been thru pregnancy, labor & childbirth with a partner who can say with a straight face that they buy that wild ride story.
Can't wait to read Linda's take on the whole thing, too!
But, dammit--can you give us even a teeny tiny itty bitty clue as to WHEN someone's dropping a shoe? Even my most avid fellow believers here in SC are starting to think I'm a looney.
Keep on keepin' on, man.
(Sarah in SC, posting anon b/c of stupid google)
Interesting that he had NO evidence that Trig was actually hers other than it had to be, too many people there, legal forms, etc. But he had nothing else. Her personal lawyer.
ReplyDeleteHe really didn't know that she had not proved it with a birth cert or anything, it seems.
He said a lot without saying anything.
WOW, Gryphen, WOW! As Ms. Bachmann would say, "You da man! You da man!
ReplyDelete"There are usually three nurses, the anesthesiologist, pediatrician, maybe three MDs.
ReplyDeleteDoes Van Flein have any children? Has HE been in the delivery room?"
I've had two kids. One nurse in the delivery room, the doctor shows up sporadically. Not everyone wants anesthesia. Often times in a small hospital, the anesthesiologist is on call and doesn't make it in on time. Pediatrician?? I don't know any mothers who had a pediatrician in the delivery room.
So it is completely reasonable that there could be only two medical people in the room with the delivering mother, the nurse and the doctor, assuming that the mother declines an epidural.
Unbelievable, that she's deceived her personal atty.
ReplyDeleteWell, the mother would definitely decline an epidural if she's not really pregnant, right? ;) So no need for all those doctors and nurses when there's no delivery. Just some signatures, a handover, and probably a whole lot of tears for someone.
ReplyDeleteHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAA!!!! Wait till Mrs. Todd Palin finds out that her lawyer had lunch with you two! HAHAHAHAHAHHA!!! And when he starts asking her questions about the BC, sh'es going to FLIP!!! He'll be fired, no doubt.
ReplyDeleteWell done, my man... excellent work!!!
HAHAHAHAHHAHA!!!!
Point being, is that you would need only the cooperation of two people, Dr. CBJ and the nurse to pull this off. They would deliver Sponge Bob sans epidural and the rest is history!
ReplyDeleteGryphen, I commend you for your grace and compassion. I wish I could view Van Flein so sympathetically, but I don't. I saw a lot of harm done to citizens (you and others) and to civic discourse with Van Flein's letters threatening those who were trying to uncover the truth about Sarah Palin's actions.
ReplyDeleteGreat lunch score there Gryphen...
ReplyDeleteIt sounds like you may have opened a set of eyes there mate..:)
.
Next one under the bus will be Van Flein if he starts to ask any questions, or gawd forbid brings up the way she clothes and treats Trig. Squish
ReplyDeletethis is the same VPchaserattorney that billed Palin for 50 grand to answer the McCain camp vetting questions.... LOL
ReplyDeletehe will probably bill $carah for the lunch...LOL
and he knows she won't know...LOL
hey, what can we say, cept he is a Alaskan attorney...
Hey, VanFlea, do you see this? I'm waving at your VPchasing ways... you give new meaning to "car wreck chaser", "ambulance chaser"...
And of course, Levi makes Wasilla a better place for all of us real Alaskans.
He, he...I would have loved to see Van Flea's face when you told him who you were....priceless. I was a little disappointed when you said he walked back to his office, because I was kind of wondering what make of car he drives. I picture him in that huge Mercedes G class SUV, courtesy of Sarah and her rice eating disciples.
ReplyDeleteVan Flea meet the underside of the Going Rogue bus in 5...4...3..2..
Gryphen, you crack me up! I would love to be a fly on the wall when Ms. Former Gov. finds out her lawyer had lunch with you and Diva. I know many lawyers, and most do not care if their clients are guilty of anything. They prefer NOT to know. It's strictly business for them. I have a feeling Van Flein may have enjoyed the lunch.
ReplyDeleteBoy, what turnip truck did he fall off? "Do you know how many people are in the delivery room, how many people" would have to be in on the conspiracy?
ReplyDeleteAnd every one of them bound by HIPAA. They can't talk without risking their jobs. Same with the medical prefessionals who actually attended Trig's birth. And then, if Sarah did actually adopt Trig, adoption records are sealed & lawyers can't talk. (I'm actually beginning to have some doubt that Sarah legally adopted Trig. She is so disrespectful of the law and lying is like breathing to her that I could see her never getting around to that detail. Yeah, this is pretty far out there.)
"What woman would give up her baby?"
ReplyDeleteMr. Gryphen, did he really ask this? I mean thousands of women have given babies up for adoption -- sometimes by force. Where did this critical thinker attend law school again?
OMG how I would have loved to have been that salt and pepper shaker at lunch!
ReplyDeleteGreat Job!
I'm impressed - thanks for doing this, Gryphen & Linda!
ReplyDeleteVan Flein makes the point I've been making for a long time when people ask, "if she's not the mom, how come there aren't people coming forward to say so?"
I ask, "If she IS the mom, how come people aren't coming forward?"
Not one nurse, orderly, family member of another patient in Mat-Su, fellow Lamaze class attendee, clerk at Target where a breast pump was purchased, member of Palin's staff who logged prenatal visits into her calendar, ANYONE, has ever confirmed that Palin was ever pregnant.
Gryph - what did you order for lunch? Was it good? How about VF? What did he order? Did he seem to enjoy it?
ReplyDeleteThis has got to be the funniest and most ironic twist yet in SP blog land.
Mr. Van Flein:
ReplyDeleteReally? I mean really?!! You actually believe your client. Not that you need to, to do your job. Sharks are scavangers/bottom feeders after all.
Playing stupid about the BC and acting like we all don't know about HIPPA?! REALLY!
You must think we are all stoopid. WRONG! Nice try though.
This is a very, very curious observation to make in connection with an assertion of belief that a baby belongs to a particular mother:
ReplyDelete"Have you been in a hospital room for the birth of a child? There are usually three nurses, the anesthesiologist, pediatrician, maybe three MDs. Somebody is obligated under the laws of the State of Alaska to fill out an accurate report for Vital Statistics..."
Like his client, he raises more idiotic questions with his own question, starting with: What the hell does the number of people in the delivery room have to do with the accuracy of the birth certificate?
While the delivering physician attests to the live birth in my state, all "historical" information is filled out by the parent(s) on the form that is then submitted to the state.
The physician can only attest to the live birth. The parent(s) filling out the form are responsible for the accuracy of the additional information, like parental birthdates, places of birth. I suspect this is the same procedure used to execute birth certificates in most, if not all, states.
By the way, in an ordinary delivery there is not likely to be anything like the cast of characters this guy describes. I had three MDs present only for pre-term C-sections, major surgery, counting the OB performing the surgery, the anesthesiologist, and a pediatrician who was there only because the babies were being delivered so early and therefore were at high risk for immature lung development and other complications. But I guarantee you that my OB was the only person attesting to the live births on an official state form, and I guarantee you that if my lawyer were asked why he believed I was the mother, he wouldn't "answer" with a question about how many people were in the operating room.
I'm a lawyer myself and I can't say that I'm overly impressed with Van Flein's logical thinking. Whether there are usually 8 or 9 people in a delivery room is moot-- we don't think that Mrs. Todd Palin ever WAS in a delivery room delivering Trig. So how could there be all these people out there keeping a secret and possibly ready to violate HIPAA?
ReplyDeleteYeah, he is definitely exxagerating about how many personnel would be there, especially in a tiny hospital. A nurse or two and a doctor, that's it. Anesthesiology would only be on hand for a cesarian.
ReplyDeleteVery well done, Gryphen and Linda!! That was a very impressive action! Sarah Palin surely won't be pleased - as there is no documentation available which could prove that she has given birth to Trig. Sarah has faked the pregnancy, and I have the feeling that more and more people will start to ask questions soon.
ReplyDeleteWell Bill since you asked, both Van Flein and I had omelets. I don't remember what kind he had, but I had a cheddar cheese omelet with some delicious buttery hash browns.
ReplyDeleteI think Linda had an omelet as well but I cannot swear to that.
I'm with Anon above: this is all lawyerly misdirection. I don't know who could seriously believe this lawyer doesn't know his client hasn't produced a birth certificate.
ReplyDeleteMrs. Todd Palin never gave birth to the baby, so there were no medical witnesses--except to the actual delivery from the actual birth mother, and even she may not know who ended up with her baby if he was relinquished for adoption. The only medical witnesses are to the real mother giving birth, and that wouldn't involve any conspiracy or any fraud by them.
Van Flein was "fishing" to see if a Birth Certificate would suffice - HE brought up DNA!
ReplyDeleteAs for asking "what mother would give up her baby," is he joking? Thousands of babies are given up for adoption - many thousands. I think VF was playing dumb for a reason - and with full permission from his client.
Interesting that he said he never saw her when she was pregnant.
ReplyDeleteSo let's have a show of hands: how many people think that the same lawyer who practices in a state where birth certificates don't become public years for 100 YEARS after the birth and who has threatened lawsuits against bloggers for just about everything OTHER than babygate really is surprised to find out that his client hasn't come up with a birth certificate?
ReplyDeleteIf she could prove she gave birth to this baby, wouldn't babygate be the first thing her lawyer started threatening to sue over?
If he didn't know full well his client can't come up with a valid BC that conforms to her crazy April 18 story, don't you think you would have got one of those lawyer letters a very long time ago? He's yanking your chain.
Sarah Palin is my new Kwame Kilpatrick! I followed his story through until he went to jail after falling on the sword of his own hefty sense of entitlement and lies (it's amazing that these people never think they'll get caught, and when they do, they don't think they've done a damn think wrong). I see a lot of him in her. Who needs soap operas when every day I check into these SP blogs and ask 'what's this brain dead dolt done this time?'
ReplyDeleteSorry, I meant a damn THING wrong. Typing too fast...
ReplyDeleteAnonymous Lawyer at 12:30 hit the nail on the head. It is one thing to HAVE a baby and cover it up when there may be five or six professionals involved. If they misrepresent any detail of the registration requirements of the birth, they risk their careers.
ReplyDeleteIf, however, there was no birth, at least involving Palin, who is risking what. Has ANYBODY, on the other hand, actually said they WERE there for the birth. If there were infact the number of people involved as he stated, certainly one of them would come forward and say, "yes I was there for the delivery". I have yet to see that happen. One would think that would warrant bragging rights.
I can't stop laughing!
ReplyDeleteThis is the same attorney that billed $arah for answering to the McCain campaign vetting and charged 50 grand. Lest we not forget, that 50 grand was disputed by the McCain camp. It only get paid by the McCain camp if they won!
My god! I can't stop giggling!
First off he offered his ass up as $arah's attorney.
Second, there was only one bid.
Third, he was and IS punk'd.
Fourth, the slime ball charged 50 grand for VP vetting.
Fifth, his charges are disputed.
Sixth, YOU, gyph, YOU (and DIVA)!
I can't stop giggling.
Keep it up Gryphen. It is fantastic that this Alaskan lawyer now has faces and real people to attach to both of your blogs. Very karmic as well - since he helped out you he might as well face you as a "real" person not just a blogger.
ReplyDeletePutting a reasonable, personable, gracious and human face to the questions that are posed on this and other blogs on behalf of other like-minded citizens to the very attorney that is ordered to summarily dismiss these questions is a triumph.
It is also important for us to see the human side of those who oppose this pursuit of justice and the simple truth.
Mr. Van Flein, clearly your arguments are incredibly weak, relying on intuitive deduction rather than facts, IE "there MUST have been a bunch of people in the delivery room and they can't all be lying", and "Babygate sounds like a wacky conspiracy theory so it MUST be one." Protect your career and your reputation now - take the questions raised about the Trig birth seriously because when this blows everybody in the vicinity of Palin will get hit with the shrapnel.
Good gazzump, Gryph. Kudos to both of you.
ReplyDeleteAnd also credit given to Van Flein for not jumping ship. Grown up behavior on everyone's part.
Not surprising he didn't see her pregnant, he only came into the story in the early summer of 2008, and would have played a rather limited role had the McCain campaign not pulled the anti-terrorism big gun O'Callaghan from NY to ramp up and redirect the Troopergate investigation, involve Colberg in the 'ignoring subpoenas' debacle and then create a new legal relationship between Palin and Van Flein that racked up entirely unnecessary legal bills. . .which they then suckered Palin supporters into paying for through the ATF.
I think you should cobble together a nice chronology of PalinNotPregnant photos(don't forget the one in the red shirt from the previous pregnancy) and links to the videos that show her flat stomached in the last trimester - Hike Around Juneau, the Israeli video - and send him a nice little, polite package, thanking him for the lunch. Something he can't ignore.It's all public record.
Additionally, Palin no doubt will be made aware of it.
Great story Gryphen. One comment. In referring to Sarah it should be specifically stated that she is not the BIRTH mother. She's always used the cover "of course I'm his mother". That is a true statement if she adopted him.
ReplyDeleteBeing that you can have the names changed on a birth cert to that of adoptive parents, you would have to rely on the fact of the birth date not being what she has said, or the hospital name or city/town. If those 3 do read as has been stated, as times have changed and many times adoptive parents are at the hospital when the baby is born. DNA would then be required to prove it.
ReplyDeleteOMG Gryphen, I just practically choked trying not to spew water all over my computer afater clicking on IM for an update!! Holy cow, I too would loved to been there to see his face when he realized who his lunch mates were. Well done. I certainly admire your control, I don't think I could have been quite so nice to Mr. Van F. But what I really love is the fact that the Quitter Queen will be apoplectic over this! Can't wait to read Linda's take on this. Okay, ready for the next surprise!
ReplyDeleteGryphen, Did you refer the attorney to any of the sites with time-dated pictures? If I were you, I would write him a nice thank you note with some enclosures.
ReplyDeleteafter, sorry...
ReplyDeleteInteresting encounter. Most lawyers would never discuss their client's affairs with ANYONE without express authorization by the client. Stuck in that awkward situation, most lawyers would have either politely left, or kept the conversation to football and the weather. I don't expect the Queen to be pleased when she reads this- and you know she does!
ReplyDeleteI thought of something else, maybe her medical records would say she had her tubes tied after piper was born.
ReplyDeleteGryphen - This is scrumptuous! I'm so glad you took advantage of the lunch and shared the results.
ReplyDeleteGotta laugh at VF's questions and comments to negate a fake pregnancy. If she didn't birth TriG, there were no nurses or doctors, so which med. professionals were risking anything? And what kind of a question is "What woman would give up her baby?"? Has he never heard of adoption?
Gryphen - It seems you have information that allows you to be satisfied with requesting just a birth certificate rather than DNA, which I don't think would be unreasonable. (Sarah jokingly suggested DNA herself in an email to the ADN editor.) I guess you have info that TriG wasn't born on 4.18.08 at Mat-Su so I'll wait patiently and won't freak that you didn't ask for DNA. But, at the risk of being a bore and repeating myself and/or being a dumb fool, I don't understand why Palin wouldn't have a forged birth certificate that she could flash in our faces. I do realize it would be tricky for her to have AK officials verify it's accuracy but, hey, she's Sarah Palin.
I'm not an attorney, but work with them. The job of an attorney is to be a zealous advocate. They aren't really interested in any "truth," but what their clients tell them. I'm convinced it's why their hourly rate is so much. How else can you go to bat for someone you think is batty without a big reward at the end?
ReplyDeleteVF: "Have you been in a hospital room for the birth of a child? There are usually three nurses, the anesthesiologist, pediatrician, maybe three MDs. Somebody is obligated under the laws of the State of Alaska to fill out an accurate report for Vital Statistics..."
ReplyDeleteHave ANY of these so called people actually said they were there for Trig's birth from Palin? Even one such person? Any one? Nurse? Doctor? Janitor? Of course nobody lied about it, not one person said they were there.
Gryphen, You did real good! You met one of the men behind the curtain and made him think about it all! You may have even convinced him to just open up his eyes and ears and to not believe every thing Mommy Dearest wants him to.
ReplyDeleteI'm really impressed.
Maybe, $arah, one on one, is really convincing. Maybe she sparkles as she lies and that's one of the major reason's that some intelligent people fall for her bullshit.
You really, really did good.
"What woman would give up her baby?", interesting Van Flein, interesting. So he knows Bristol is not the mom.
ReplyDeleteHe knows that Sarah did not adopt Trig legally...but he wants you to check the public records. Is he telling you to look for a BC now?
NO, the question, Van Flein is what woman, elected governor, will deceive the public pretending to be pregnant and bypassing the LAW of the land in obtaining legal papers claiming to be the legitimate parent of a baby.
No, what woman would take a baby and negate his identity?
Gryphen I thought you were serious about this. Did you and Celtic Diva really need to have this litle fun?
Sorry, I'm not happy with you.
Fascinating read! I'm sure it was an interesting experience for you, and maybe for Mr. VF also,too.
ReplyDeleteHere's the thing, about any birth certificate. Once an adoption is made final (usually 9-12 months), the birth certificate is changed *permanently* to show the adoptive mother as the mother of the adopted child.
ReplyDeleteMy own brother was adopted by my parents, and eventually, his birth certificate showed [our] parents as the mother and the father on his birth certificate. NOTHING to indicate that it was not a live birth from anyone other than my mother. Period.
By now, any adoption would be (probably) final - and finalized - and the birth certificate wouldn't necessarily show a dang thing off kilter.
OTOH, IF there was anything hinky about the paperwork for that delivery, that could be a very compelling reason for the attending physician to clam up.
Just sayin...
First, amazing and funny! I can't believe you did this!!
ReplyDeleteSecond, I do not believe him sorry. I think he knows the truth about Trig and was trying to find out how much you really know and how easily you would back down. I know I wasn't there with you but I agree with the popster above who says he was yanking your chain. I mean anyone who has read the wild ride sort and was intelligent would know that story is full of holes.
All very strange but I think he knows Sarah is lying and he's a sleeze doing his sleezy cover up for Sarah. He can't be that stupid!! There are a lot of Trig Truthers that are smart.
I think you should write him and thank him for the conversation. And tell him you
would be glad to stop writing about this if he and Sarah provided proof of parentage and the birth certificate. Proof is DNA and I'd like to see dr CBJ make a live (video) statement that she delivered Sarah.
Also doesn't he know daddy Palin was there "when Trig popped our?? Sure he was....
I meant when Trig popped OUT!! Typo!!
ReplyDeleteInteresting that he asked questions and did not arbitrarily blow you guys off!
ReplyDeleteVF:" ...that's a matter of public record...Isn't it recorded in the Mat-Su records with the other births recorded that day?"
Huh! He must of been surprised that it wasn't there...maybe he will ask Sarah to show the BC?
Interesting...it will be very interesting where this may lead....Good job Gryphen & Diva.
Speaking for myself, I would be satsified with a video statement from Dr. Cathy Baldwin-Johnston that she delivered Trig Palin from Sarah Palin's womb on 4/18/2008. Dr. CBJ could do this without violating HPPA rules - IF she has patient's (Sarah's- permission to do so.
ReplyDeleteBut Sarah will NOT give permission, and CBJ will NOT confirm the birth as told by Sarah.
WHY IS THAT?
You're not going to like this and you might not print it, but I have to agree with anon 1:10. You want to be a journalist, but you don't play like a journalist. Real journalists don't do this kind of set up and then spring their true identity on someone at the last minute. It's duplicitous. I'm amazed the guy stayed. That he did means he wanted to sniff something out from you. I find it truly hard to believe that he didn't know who you were by your real name. Didn't they out you at your job? No real journalist brings along a friend to lunch. That's hackneyed. He just wanted to know how much you knew. The course of questioning was amateurish at best. What was the point? Whenever anyone asks in that passive/aggressive voice about DNA, would someone finally please say, yes, we would like that? Pops out is a crass term. That birth room scenario is crazy and inaccurate. And women give up their baby all the time. And why didn't you point out the various firm talking points about this story. I'm not sure what the game is here, but I think you blew a serious opportunity. And I suspect his services will no longer be needed. Either that, or they are setting you up to use you. Oh and one more thing: why would anyone pay to have lunch with a famous person's attorney? Husband, family member, perhaps, but attorney? Too weird.
ReplyDeleteI cannot help but notice that Van Flein gave away the meme to be used by Palin and her bots:
ReplyDeleteTrig's birth story is akin to conspiracy theorists who believe 9/11 was an inside job and Barrack Obama is not an American citizen.
THAT is the gameplan everyone. Just dismiss us as conspiracy theorists.
Even though simple paperwork/pictures/dr. statement could prove us wrong, no need to provide those things.
SoCalWolfGal: ditto, ditto, ditto. Gryphen, this is so cool. You and the Diva have gone beyond cool. Ok, now I'll scroll back up, read more of the comments and read the post again.
ReplyDeleteSplendid. Though if TVF was sincere about his questions, he's not only ignorant but thick, and Sarah Palin will be furious that her disciples' money is being wasted by a lawyer who hasn't been keeping an eye on the arguments of the opposition.
ReplyDeleteHey, maybe Triggy Bear will at least get warmer tootsies out of this.
Mouse
Yay Gryphen. In the words of Van Flein himself, it was a "teachable moment" (VF's letter on Palin's facebook). You are truly an educator.
ReplyDeleteI very much doubt VF is as dense as he tried to appear, but I give him credit for a good acting job. You were far kinder to him than he deserves. Many people would have sent him back to Palin with singed eyebrows and glowing ears.
On another note, how did you mange to keep lunch down when confronted with such determined stupidity?
There's a lesson to learn from this lunch that, sadly, Palin will never learn- when you sit down with an adversary you often walk away with, if not a mutual respect, at least a better understanding of each other. Sadly, sister Sarah is too much of a coward to engage in any dialog with those that dont drink her kool-aid. As always Gryphen, great post.
ReplyDeleteGryphen - What a fantastic coup! Can't wait for the fallout!
ReplyDelete"Grown up behavior on everyone's part."
ReplyDeleteI agree. And Gryphen is a blogger; he didn't claim to be a journalist (otherwise Mrs. Todd Palin would have been trying to sue whatever organization hired Gryphen as a journalist). I'm surprised that Van Flein stayed and glad that things stayed civilized. I think you might have given him something to think about. And I also think that you put a face to bloggers-- I hope that VF will think twice before he sends any more letters on behalf of Mrs. Palin.
I betcha little old Sarah got all "we-weed up" when she heard about this lunch. See her use of this popular C4P term below...
ReplyDeleteINGRAHAM: Would you agree to a debate with Al Gore on this issue?
PALIN: Oh my goodness. You know, it depends on what the venue would be, what the forum. Because Laura, as you know, if it would be some kind of conventional, traditional debate with his friends setting it up or being the commentators I’ll get clobbered because, you know, they don’t want to listen to the facts. They don’t want to listen to some reasonable voices in this. And that was proven with the publication of this op-ed, where they kind of got all we-weed up about it and wanted to call me and others deniers of changing weather patterns and climate conditions. Trying to make the issue into something that it is not.
INGRAHAM: But what if it’s an Oxford-style, proper debate format. I mean, he’s going to chicken out. I mean, if you challenge him to a debate, do you actually think he would accept it?
PALIN: I don’t know, I don’t know. Oh, he wouldn’t want to lower himself, I think, to, you know, my level to debate little old Sarah Palin from Wasilla.
VF put a lunch date out for open bid to the public. He may think only "friendlies" would bid but that is stupid beyond normal. VF thought his august presence at a lunch had monetary value. So he should pay the price of his own self-regard.
ReplyDeleteSome of the other recipients of his sarcastic, unlawyerly, vindictive missives might not be such comfortable lunch companions.
I'm betting it will be a LONG time before VF risks an open invitation lunch again. He does not sound like the kind of guy to tolerate constructive criticsm well.
Good for telling Van Flein to tell Sarah to dress Trigg properly, but as far as giving her any hint to help herself (i.e. develop a thicker skin), I would not do it. Let Sarah hang herself. Why give her advice that would help keep her around as dangerous as she is? Now that's logic I can't understand.
ReplyDelete2:21, don't worry. Her skin will only get thinner.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Anon@1:10 and L.A. in S.F. Maybe Gryphen isn't so serious about his "quest for truth" after all. Is IM simply part of the huge blog-as-entertainment industry? Sort of like cable TV "news" shows? I'm going to take some time to think about those questions--and about my own reasons for visiting this site over the past year.
ReplyDeleteGryphen, Good job! I believe he does know the truth about Trig. Lawyers are very good at not giving away too much...
ReplyDeleteQuestion - if she didn't legally adopt him, how would she handle the paperwork for the state in identifying number of dependents? Didn't she leave this as very confusing on her final disclosure forms?
Anon 2:16, thanks for posting that. So she's basically saying that she's not worthy of debating Al Gore. "Little old Sarah Palin from Wasilla". Give me a break. This woman is beyond insane and so is Ingraham. Al Gore would chicken out? Good Lord!
ReplyDeleteFascinating, Gryphen. What an opportunity for you and Linda. Thank you both for taking a chance on this. I agree about the karmic ramifications, and about the potential power of the fleeting personal connection you have now made with Mr VF. Putting a name with a face, having an exchange of ideas, this makes it harder for Sarah to demonize you guys, to him. Who knows what will happen as a result of this event? The longer I live the more I realize that truth is often stranger than fiction. While I can understand that people would rightly assume this guy has all the critical information on this entire topic - maybe, just maybe, he doesn't. The point about his lack of professionalism, or lawyerly discretion, is well taken, for it is indeed surprising that he would sit there and have a conversation with the two of you. In some ways, though, this says more to me than anything. He may not be as savvy as we want to give him credit for being. I don't know why we make the assumption that he is a skilled or sophisticated lawyer... I think it is quite possible that he does not know all of it, and he could very well be engaging in that old rationalization of plausible deniability - he has never really forced Sarah Palin to prove to him that she gave birth to Trig. Call it laziness or sloppy procedure, call it just making things easier on his own conscience, or call it convenient. He just doesn't seem clever enough to on the spot, under those circumstance, have been pumping the two of you about what you know and what you don't know. And as far as this stuff about "is blogging the same as professional journalism" goes, I think it's an irrelevant argument/question at this point in time. If it weren't for people like Gryphen and Linda and others, we wouldn't have gotten this far. Journalists today have by and large failed our country, on this and many other topics. They need to re-examine their true purpose and mission. They need to remember that their independence, their integrity and their investigative instincts are supposed to be the hallmarks of their profession. But in the meantime, while they slowly figure this out (we can only hope), people like Linda and Gryphen will pick up the slack, as concerned citizens desperate to hold on to our democracy. Thanks again, you two!
ReplyDeleteAll VF needs to educate himself is Google or the search engine of his choice. Absolutely no need to for any followup note from Gryphen with a simpleton's guide to the "odd lies" and many gates of the ex-Gov. of Alaska.
ReplyDeleteIf VF needs more help, there are plenty of people in Wasilla alone with a list of blogs to read. Even some moderately famous people with the initials SP could give VF a running start.
Gryphen: I am bothered by the phrase you attribute to Van Flein when he says that Trig Truthers are kind of like saying 9/11 was an inside job and that Obama is not a US Citizen. That same phrasing was used somewhere (an interview; a quote?) over this past weekend: was this the exact phrase Palin or who used to comment about the Trig story being in the news for the last few days?
ReplyDeleteEvery pregnancy is different, we all know that.
ReplyDeleteEvery delivery is different, we know that, too.
Way too much information, I know, but...my own experience proved to me that with each successive pregnancy, each delivery can be progressively faster.
I gave birth three times:
First, 28 hours, second, 7 1/2 hours
With the third, I was eating dinner at a local restaurant at 7:30 and was holding my newborn in my arms, three hours later, at 10:30. My contractions only came when I stood and took a step, otherwise, nothing--but all the time, dilation was occurring. It wasn't until just before the baby was born that my water broke.
Sarah's wild ride, especially after having given birth several times before, and while leaking amniotic fluid, was not just foolish--if it actually occurred--it was flat out irresponsible, if not insane.
No doubt, after yesterday's luncheon, Mr. Van Flein's ego and curiosity will get the best of him and he will pop in to see what you have written about him. So, here's a little reality check that I would like to give Mr. Van Flein:
If he (you) believe your own song and dance about the number of medical personnel present during a birth, he (you) has/have never stepped foot into a maternity ward, let alone into a delivery room. In such a small facility, aside from an anesthesiologist prancing in to administer an epidural, his/her presence is non-existent during the birthing process. Maybe a nurse or two might be present in the birthing unit--dividing their time among the patients. Finally, a doctor meanders in--just in time to catch the little bundle.
As to the availability of public records, specifically a birth certificate: It seems that an attorney who is licensed to practice in the state of Alaska would have, at least, some idea of the strictures placed upon the access of certain documents, such as adoption records and birth certificates.
As to the reluctance of women to place their children up for adoption: While the fact is that the process is painful, the fact is that, in reality it happens.
Gryphen indicated that you asked something to the effect of: What woman would give up her baby? Indeed, under what circumstances would a woman feel compelled to give up her baby? And why? Well, apparently many women and for many reasons, otherwise, there would be no need for adoption laws in the State of Alaska.
I've known several people in my lifetime who were adopted. Their mothers all gave them up for adoption--you ask: what woman would give up her baby? A mother who, for her own reasons, concluded that it was best for both she and her baby. That the question is asked at all reflects someone who either totally inexperienced and ignorant of these facts of life, or perhaps more likely, the judgmental sort. Either way, it is not a logical question to be asked by an Officer of the Court.
Whether Sarah took a wild ride, or adopted someone else's child, it doesn't matter--it seems that your working knowledge and legal expertise, in these areas, is lacking, Mr. Van Flein.
Thank you Gryphen.
Oh Gryphen what a coup! I bet he gets an earful as soon as she finds out. Oh yeah, she knows already, I'm sure Ivy has checked your post by now.
ReplyDeleteI think it's telling that Mr. VF asked "what woman would give up her baby" rather than "what woman would PRETEND to have a baby?" I think he knows full well what kind of person he has for a client.
ReplyDeletelove the snide comments! touching some nerves I think.
ReplyDeleteGreat story Gryphen, it made my day. Thank you.
For Sarah's people who are reading this blog, I'd like to mention another issue.
ReplyDeleteI am concerned about what we learned from the BW interview that Trig is not yet eating solid food. I know a little one who overcame a similar problem. He had therapy 3X a week...physical, occupational and speech with cranial sacral therapy during at least one of the 3 sessions...and home exercises. The cranial sacral achieved remarkable results. He started therapy when he was probably about 7 mos.
And by asking "what woman would give up her baby," I wonder if VF is testing the waters for a possible "I took this baby from an unfit mother" defense by Mrs. Todd Palin.
ReplyDeleteGryphen ... Daisydem here whispering ...did you think to ask him if he has seen Meg? [I don't know why I am so worried about her; it's not as if I like her).
ReplyDeleteI would love to see VF's face when it occurs to him that if he persists in the "she birthed the baby" line he is going to have to subscribe to whole absurd wild ride story. Amniotic fluid leak and all. VF knows about all the people in a delivery room so he must be up on other messy details like high risk births and NICUs. Sorry, VF, either way you look like an idiot.
ReplyDeleteI agree with LA in SF.
ReplyDeleteVF is a slime ball and let's not forget who he works for.
I think you and Diva have been punk'd
Gryphen, get a lawyer and fast dude.
Methinks what is coming your way will not be good
This is not on subject but, I called Elmendorf today about the Sunday book signing. They base commanders office was unaware of federal regulations prohibiting campaigning or the controversy at Ft. Bragg with Chuck Heath and Sarah PAC. They also had not received any calls about the book signing. I told them that it gave the impression that Elmendorf supports and endorses Sarah Palin. Here is the number to the base commanders office 907-552-0300, please call.
ReplyDeleteI truly doubt the lawyer was clueless about who his lunch date would be. And he's the one who brought up Trig. Fishing, fishing. He got G to say he'd be happy with a BC, so if that comes out showing SP and Terd as parents...then what? You try to show it's false, and you become a real "birther," just what Van Flein wants you to be. Irrational. Fringe. Out to get SP and her poor family. Watch out, G.
ReplyDeleteIsn't the essence ot the pro-life movement that there are loving adoptive parents awaiting each and every baby that is not aborted? If VF thinks it odd that a women should give up her baby for adoption then his pro-life credentials may be suspect. Isn't VF's client vehemently pro-lofe? Better be careful, VF. You could lose a lucrative income stream.
ReplyDeleteDid you get even the slightest sense that he was pleasantly amused by your thoughts, suggestions, accusations?! Did he laugh? Smile? Did he look like he wanted to engage in the slighting of the troll, but restrained? I bet he did!
ReplyDeleteTee hee. Too funny, Gryphen. What I find most fascinating is that he simply assumed that you were only pretending to believe she didn't birth Trig as part of an attempt to smear her. I wonder if he'll look into the facts now.
ReplyDeleteI'm always amazed when I talk to people--even people who intensely dislike Sarah--who don't question the "five children" line. But unless you're paying attention, you don't know. And how many people are paying attention?
VF may make it his business to find out some things about Palin now. Remember, lawyers are people too and when they are people they stop being lawyers. And vice versa. He will probably also be concerned about looking after his reputation.
ReplyDeleteThose who took part in all the Van Flea shit, etc. should be ashamed of themselves now. You Gryphen especially.
Gryph:
ReplyDeleteYou got played. He knows your entire hand. He knows you don't know shit.
You should have kept them wondering what you know that you didn't know.
Dammit
Just wanted to let everyone know that the term "wee-weed up" was a term the President used regarding healthcare and C4P did not understand what it meant so they decided to use it as a stupid comment by the President. What he really meant was people were getting nervous for no apparent reason.
ReplyDelete--------------------------------
"So what did the president mean when he said this week that everyone's getting all "wee-weed up'' in Washington?
"It's a phrase I use,'' White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said today, hesitating at his press briefing to offer a physical demonstration of the phraseology.
"Let's do this in a way that's family friendly,'' Gibbs said. "I think 'wee-weed up' is when people get all nervous for no particular reason....
"August of 2008, everybody was nervous about whether the entire presidential campaign was slipping out from the hands of the president,'' Gibbs said, turning the page to this August, in which all the president's critics are declaring his health-care initiatives in peril. "This is sort of an August pundit pattern of people getting overly nervous about something that has a long way to go...
"Bedwetting would probably be the more consumer-friendly term for it,'' the press secretary said."
http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2009/08/weeweed_up_white_house_explain.html
Geeezz Guys are you so blind you can't figure out what is going on. I have posted this several times and no one believes me. Of course, Sarah is not going to produce any BC, why should she??? With all of you writing about this all the time it just keeps the truth about OBAMA's BC an issue too. It just makes lots people on both sides look stupid. Why just have the Republicans looking stupid about questioning OBAMA's BC, when you can have you liberals looking just as stupid questioning Trigg's BC.
ReplyDeleteYou notice none of the MSM ever pick up on these issues for more then a day or so....because they don't want to question OBAMA about his long form birth certificate either. If it was just Trigg's BC the MSM would be all over this story. Sarah is playing you all like a fiddle.
I would like to add another thought because I too now need to ask myself why I have spent so much time on this blog waiting for this story to advance or finally break. What is up with giving advice on behalf of or to benefit the very woman you have been trying to bring down? How passive-aggressive is that? Your role, as I see it, is not to offer personal advice on how to improve her image. Your role has been as a journalist, real, pseudo or otherwise. You have been supposedly working behind the scenes, holding in check private proof of her duplicity, and yet you reveal info about this lunch? Did you tell him you were going to report on this lunch? Did he think it was off the record? This is precisely what I've asked in the past: have sources spoken to you as a blogger with the understanding that you are trying to put together the mother of all stories? Or do they just think you're a nice guy? Did VF just think you were a fun date? Or did he realize you'd go home and type this up for public consumption. I hope you print this email. It may well be the last one I write here.
ReplyDeleteblah blah blah,
ReplyDeleteThe truth will come out on $P...this is a start. The snakes are being beating out of the bushes...
Amazing that you make damaging admissions that you are posting items as fact when, in fact, you have no facts to back up your assertions. If there is anything which cuts the legs out of the legitimacy of Alaskan bloggers and gives S'error Palin a leg to stand on with respect to making herself appear to be the victim, it is the unabashed and factually unsupported conspiracy surrounding the youngest Palin.
ReplyDeleteYou should apologize the Palin for the allegations you made re her marriage. And the baby stuff makes all the rest of us look stupid.
regards -
Sauerkraut
ht tp://run4chocolate.wordpress.com
Actually Daisydem, I did ask Van Flein about Meg.
ReplyDeleteI forgot to add it into my post but I asked if she was still working for Sarah, and where she was. He said yes she was, and that she is here in town.
I hear a lot of talking about my need for a lawyer and I do not see the need right now. But if Van Flein decides to be the villain then I will have little trouble in finding representation.
I promised Van Flein I would not vilify him, and I did not. He stayed for the entire lunch and was reasonable and appropriate throughout. As I said he was in no hurry to get away after the meal and we stood outside talking for several more minutes before the cold got the better of us. If he was concerned about how Sarah would respond he did not show it.
I have accurately posted our conversation and taken nothing out of context. It would a stretch for him to turn this into an ambush. These are the same questions anybody might ask him on the street or in line at a grocery store.
Frankly, this isn't about whether or not Gryphen knows "shit". All that matters is that Gryphen knows there is "shit" to be known. And also, explain to me why Thomas Van Flein is necessarily such a shark? Why does everyone assume he is all over this? I found this, and nothing about his connections really jumps out at me...Arizona? (McCain?) The Zoning Board? What am I missing? I am not familiar with his bio. http://www.muckety.com/Thomas-V-Van-Flein/144525.muckety
ReplyDeleteFor the life of me, I can not understand the posters here who are so upset with Gryphen. The guy is a blogger for cripes sake - one who is a thorn in SP's side, but still a blogger. He's not Andrew Sullivan (sorry Gryph), he's an ordinary guy who feels passionate about politics. If you think you can do a better job, then start your own blog and start doing some investigating. If it's so easy do it!
ReplyDeleteFor anyone critical of Gryphen's lunch with Van Flein - what did you want him to do? Piss the guy off to the point of having Van Flein walk out? I think Gryph did a great job by keeping the discourse polite.
ReplyDeleteSauerkraut - have you been to Palingates and seen/read all the evidence? If not, I politely request you do so.
I second that, Anon @ 3:30 PM!
ReplyDeleteJuju, go back to whatever hole you crawled out of.
ReplyDeleteNice work Gryphen...we'll see what comes of it.
Go Sarah
ReplyDeleteStop the Kenyan Muslim Socialist
Kill the HCR Bill
Stop all the socialists in Copenhagen
GW biggest hoax ever
Take back the House in 2010
Sarah in the WH in 2013.
Poor Mr. Van Flein. It sounds like he never questioned Sarah's story at all. I bet she whined and winked at him, and he fell for it. I bet he's never read through the story of the Wild Ride and actually compared it to real human labor and delivery.
ReplyDeleteMr. Van Fleinn, please. For your own sanity, you need to realize one thing. Sarah Palin is a liar. It shows up consistently in her communications.
Sarah got the nom because the right-wing liked her prolife creds- which are phony, because she didn't give birth to Trig.
Please go to palindeception.com and read Audrey's well-researched data about the completely bizarre story of an woman in a public position who faked a pregnancy.
If Sarah wanted, she could easily put the story to rest. She could ask her doctor to confirm it. She could ask the nurse in the delivery room to confirm it. Let's have some nurse put her license on the line and say "I was there, and I can confirm that Sarah is the birth mother of a baby born on April 18, 2008."
Don't ask us to believe a birth certificate now. Even if Sarah had produced one (and it sounds like she told you she had, but again, Sarah's a liar), a legal adoption would mean that Sarah and Todd's name are on it. At this point, we need DNA.
Oh there is ONE thing I'd like to add. In a high risk birth, the delivery room WOULD have a number of people in it. There would be the OB. There would be a scrub assistant, ready to pass instruments and assist as needed. There might be an anesthetist or anesthesiologist, in the event that a crash-and-burn c-section has to be done at the last moment.(High risk, remember.) Then there would also be a nurse there to support the birth mother. If it was a true high-risk birth (as a known premature birth of a DS baby) there would be a respiratory therapist to assist in ventilating the baby as needed (my husband is a respiratory therapist and has done his share this) and there would be, this is CRUCIAL, a neonatologist.
Given the premature birth of a known DS infant with a cardiac anomaly, an expert must have been available to provide emergency intervention, to support the infant in those crucial first hours after birth, while Trig was being closely watched for signs of cardiac failure... since you can't really be sure how damaged the heart is prior to birth... no. A neonatologist must have been there to supervise the child's care in a level III NICU. To keep him alive. Hopefully not needed, but there's no way to know, in a high-risk birth.
What's that you say? Sarah and Todd drove out of Anchorage and 60 miles away from the ONLY Level III NICU in Alaska? From the NEAREST neonatologist?
And you think we ought to believe her? NOTHING Sarah and Todd did is consistent with labor and delivery of a high-risk baby to a normally intelligent woman. If we believe the story, then neither Todd nor Sarah were remotely concerned with the safety of the baby, and the only reason that's been given us? Well, Todd says you can't have a fishpicker born in Texas! Yeah, that's a real good reason for risking your baby's life.
Ivyfree
JuJu says "I have posted this several times and no one believes me."
ReplyDeletePosting something many times does not make it true.
What a coup ! I suspect that VF is busy on his computer tonight, maybe even reading this blog . After reading all the comments, I can't decide if Mr. VF knew who you were and decided to go to the lunch anyway, to find out what your position was - like a lawyer in litigation would meet cordially with the opposing lawyer to sound him out. Either that, or he genuinely didn't know and once he met you both he decided that it might be interesting to stay, since you and Linda were not wild eyed monsters as he had been led to believe.
ReplyDeleteIn my experience, litigation lawyers generally accept what their clients tell them, especially if that client is the governor of the state. Put yourself in his position as a lawyer. There's no reason for them to take the initiative to investigate his own client. So he might genuinely believe SP.
One group of people who do investigate their clients is political campaign consultants. I live in Texas and it is well known that Karl Rove hired a private detective to investigate W. The purpose was to see what dirt the opposition might find.I believe that at some point ,( not soon enough !), the McCain campaign did an investigation of SP and found so much that they didn't know what to do with it. It was so bad that McCain would have been revealed as incompetent if she was forced to resign from the campaign as Thomas Eagleton was years ago.
When McCain says he is proud of her, he is bluffing, because what is left of his reputation will collapse along with hers. Isn't it interesting that McCain's daughter who is prodigious blogger and quite outspoken, has said the one thing she won't discuss about the campaign is Palin ? Very interesting. It makes me wonder what she saw or heard during the campaign.
Well done Gryphen and Linda !
Go Sarah
ReplyDeleteStop the Kenyan Muslim Socialist
Kill the HCR Bill
Stop all the socialists in Copenhagen
GW biggest hoax ever!
Take back the House in 2010
Sarah in the WH in 2013.
Those that are saying Gryphen's actions were basically unprofessional are totally wrong. These actions have been done by journalists/reporters numerous times, otherwise the meeting would never have happened. That's the difference with people that have the ability to think outside the box. Good on you Gryphen.
ReplyDeleteIt also is the point that this lunch was won in a silent auction for charity. If VF, had up and left, Gryphen could easily have written articles online, to papers, to TV in AK. It being a small state in population, it would not have looked good on VF.
Also from what Gryphen has disclosed, it does not appear that VF has disclosed any info on Palin as far as solicitor/client, so it too is no big deal.
Go Sarah
ReplyDeleteStop the Kenyan Muslim Socialist
Kill the HCR Bill
Stop all the socialists in Copenhagen
GW biggest hoax ever
Take back the House in 2010
Sarah in the WH in 2013.
Teabagging forever
anon 3:52
ReplyDeleteSo you want someone's balls on your face forever?! awesome! (Just in case you didn't know what teabagging was)...
Gryphen,
ReplyDeleteWhat was your $ bid for the lunch?
I think that some dummy has taken some advice and changed "Sarah in the WH in 2012" to "Sarah in the WH in 2013".
ReplyDeleteAll I want to say is why stop being stoopid now.
"Good for telling Van Flein to tell Sarah to dress Trigg properly, but as far as giving her any hint to help herself (i.e. develop a thicker skin), I would not do it. Let Sarah hang herself."
ReplyDeleteSarah doesn't take advice, remember? Nobody bosses Sarah around, and even the McCain campaign had trouble trying to get her to cooperate. Gryph took the high ground, and he established a concern for Trig. Lots of us realize he doesn't seem to be getting proper care.
Ivyfree
Go Sarah
ReplyDeleteStop the Kenyan Muslim Socialist
Kill the HCR Bill
Stop all the socialists in Copenhagen
GW biggest hoax ever
Take back the House in 2010
Sarah in the WH in 2013.
Replace Sasha and Malia with Piper and Willow.
Take back our America
I guess Gryphen might have to go back to moderated comments.
ReplyDeleteTeabagging forever! LOL!
ReplyDeleteNow onto the subject at hand:
Some people here are too invested, crying for Gryphen to do more! you were set up! tell the truth! (paraphrasing)
Geeze, relax folks. It will all play out however it does. I think this lunch date was fantastic!
JuJu, first of all fact checkers have touched, felt, smelled, and handled Obama's birth certificate, they did NOT just call Hawaii for confirmation. They had/have his bc and all verified it's legit. Keep in mind JuJu Obama wasn't plucked out of obscurity in 2007 to run for President. Obama was a IL State Legislator for 11 years a seat he took from a woman who held the seat for many years and planned on running for the next rung up. She personally asked Obama to run for her seat which he did. She changed her mind midway when she realized she wouldn't have the cash for the run she wanted to make and asked Obama to get out of the way and let her have her seat back. When he chose to stay in the race, she forged signatures trying to get the seat back, he proved it, won the seat. Ya think she didn't go out of her way digging for all she could to get back at him? Think they didn't vet him then? Then he decided to run for Senate. Again think he wasn't vetted?
ReplyDeleteI'm from Illinois originally JuJu spent many years there and have many adult friends whose parents are in IL politics. Some have been in IL politics since I was a child and I'm in my forties now. My parents still living in IL are even personal friends of some IL State Legislators and Represenatives and I've spent the night in some of their homes when I was growing up.
I can tell you this, just as your idol and many others in the GOP, many, many in IL politics (including those who are dirty as they come) were very jealous and angry that he not only stayed above the fray, but also was able to succeed without the all the friends and cryonyism they had used to succeed. Many he had to work with hoped he failed because they had to watch him sail right by them. Not to mention that he was also effective and voted in support of IL citizens not IL politicians.
It's no secret to those in Illinois that they would have KILLED to find a way to take him down, but lo and behold JuJu.............NOTHING to take him down with..........NOTHING! NADA! ZIP!
Very reason he makes your idol Sarah crazy JuJu because their isn't one ounce of anything to bring him down, unlike Sarah. At least with Clinton his previous personal failings showed a sign of weakness so they exploited his weakness..........women.
Obama, not so easy. If the proof was there JuJu they would have taken him out YEARS ago when they saw his star rising faster than theirs had with 30 years in.
It's just not there JuJu. Might be hard for you to accept but even the dimmest of bulbs can figure out after 11 months of daily attacks on this man they haven't really succeeded in taking him down have they? Instead they've destroyed themselves in the eyes of the voter.
If there was anything they could use to destroy him they would have used it long ago. So instead they've spent 11 months spouting every crazy theory, complaint, lie, propaganda they can come up with and hoping something sticks.
But Superman just keeps doing his thing and paying attention to the Americans he represents, not the politicians that represent themselves. You see JuJu we voted for Obama because he cares more about us than he cares about his political peers.
Ya know like the kind grifting money from their followers becasue poor little thing is attacked while building themselves a mansion and using followers money to keep others quiet so they don't expose their secrets. Face it JuJu you've been conned.
It might not be Gryphen or any other blog that proves the case that Sarah Palin Did Not Give Birth to Trig, but it will come out JuJu, it will.
Gryph,
These are for you!
Wasilla gays invite Levi out for a night!
http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2009/12/10/Wasilla_Gays_to_Levi_Go_Out_With_Us/
Sarah struggles with Women, African-Americans and Non-ederly. Duh ya think?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/10/palin-poll-struggles-amon_n_387501.html
Willow's the one Palin child who I can see going to college. No way she'd want to be in the fantasy white house that Mrs. Todd Palin would live in.
ReplyDeleteGW biggest hoax ever
ReplyDelete***********
GWBush biggest hoax ever - Had been true at one time, but now the biggest hoax ever IS Sarah Heath Palin!!!!
I could care less about birth certificates at this point, but to each his own. Nero fiddled, too.
ReplyDeleteI would like to know that Trig is properly cared for. Including his glasses and winter clothes when appropriate. The pod-people are too obsessed with Sarah to notice him beyond a cute prop, so they won't get it. Let them bask in their end time that is coming soon.
The lunch sounds like a hoot. Whatever is made of it I don't think anyone gave away anything. Palin would arrest or sue anyone she wants if she can get by with it. She likes to fluff it up. I'd like to see her sue someone, what's the problem with that? I don't mind that VF makes bank off of her either. He should ask for a raise.
Anon @ 3:52..Teabagging forever.....
ReplyDeleteI assume that you do not know what the term teabagger means. I am glad that you admit that you and Sarah Palin are teabaggers because no intelligent person would admit to such a thing. Only an ignorant, stoopid person would admit that they suck......
-----------------------
Definition of Teabagging/Teabagger
An adult act performed by consenting republican/conservatives on each other to express their fake outrage to imaginary tax increases (most of these idiots actually just got a tax break)
During this act one republican/conservative nut job (pun intended) drops his pants in public and slowly lowers his scrotum into the eager mouth of another right wing nut lover.
Some basic Teabagging participation rules
1: Participants have to be very low income preferably on welfare)
2: Participants have to be avid Fox News watchers (this makes certain the participants are brainwashed to the extent of being borderline retarded)
3: Participants have to be republican/ conservative
ressie - good catch - yes the trolls can learn.
ReplyDeletei think gryphen and diva having lunch with van flea is rather breath-taking. i have no quarrel with gryphen and applaud both his and diva's efforts to search for facts.
thanks for sharing what you learned at the lunch and all throughout this past year.
high fives Gryph, what a great post this is. I would have loved to been a fly on the wall for that lunch.
ReplyDeleteI know that you still have unanswered questions about Trig's BC ect. and there seems to be circumstantial evidence pointing to the fact that she didn't give birth to Trig, however, I still keep going back to Anne Kilkenny's open letter. I can't reconcile the two sides. Do you think Anne is wrong when she says that Sarah gave birth to Trig?
About Sarah Palin: A Letter From Anne Kilkenny
3 Sep 08
"It is astonishing and almost scary how well she can keep a secret. She kept her most recent pregnancy a secret from her children and parents for seven months. She is “pro-life”. She recently gave birth to a Down’s syndrome baby. There is no cover-up involved, here; Trig is her baby."
I don't get it!!! I believe Anne, I really liked her when I saw her the first time on Moore Up North. And I like reading what you have to say on your Blog, but I don't want you beating your head against the wall over something that may be a non issue
I'm in no rush for the info to come out. Obama is in office for 3 years yet. Still time for Palin to hang herself.
ReplyDeleteIn fact, if the info comes out too early, there is too much time for it to slide and therefore time to possibly recover. It's all in the timing people, all in the timing.
Another exciting episode of Van Flein, Facebook Lawyer.
ReplyDeleteWhen is Celtic Diva going to post her lunch report?
ReplyDeleteOh, and anonymous at 4.00p who wrote the long post about Illinois politics is spot on in her assessment. Obama was on the political radar in Illinois and political enemies would have used any negative info to bring him down. As would the Hillary Clinton campaign in the Dem primaries and the McCain campaign in the November race. There hasn't been anything found because there is nothing TO be found.
I think he's doing a very good job so far. So many problems inherited from the past eight years have turned him gray already. I can't stand hearing fellow progressives and liberals putting him down after ten months in office because he hasn't done everything he promised in the campaign. Get behind him; it will take years to clean up the Bush/Cheney mess.
Oh, and Gryphen, you might want to start moderating your comments again. Sorry to say.
Bawhahah Thanks SOOO much Gryph, "House" and "Lie to Me" are over for the season!
ReplyDeleteGreat entertainment!
Teabagger def. before the "nutjobs" claimed it: Dangling your scrotum on your buddies face while they are passed out and possibly taking a picture for later bribery. A "hazing" tactic...
GO TEABAGGERS!!! BaHahahahhhahha
A friend of mine had no choice when he was starting out as a lawyer with no connections to a big law firm. He found himself defending gang members, becasue they are entitled to a fair defense in a court of law, and they did pay well.
ReplyDeleteHe had a standard way of dealing with known gang members, starting every encounter by advising them not to tell him anything. If he didn't have any knowledge of a crime, he could defend the gang member based on a poor eye witness, poor evidence, you name it. But, even if he had suspicions, he never really knew about the nature of the crime the guy was accused of.
It is good to know that when he had made enough money to afford a better choice of people to represent, he stopped representing gang members. But, I believe that VF just does what Sarah tells him to do; he may not be aware of certain facts that would compromise his ability to practice law (knowledge of a crime, for example).
Your point was made very well; no one has seen Trig's birth certificate. VF did not see Sarah pregnant. And, your point was perfect: without VF's threats, you wouldn't have garnered all of this attention. Hope you ordered something expensive for lunch!
G-man....Good stuff and Be CAREFUL. Do not go fishing with anyone!
ReplyDeleteTo compare SP with 9/11 or Obama is so blind on VF's part....Trig's parentage is in no way on the same scale as 9/11 or OBAMA. . . . . .Snarah is a small potato where these other two items are much bigger. .
ReplyDeleteInnocent people were killed by terrorists in 9/11, OBAMA's citizenship is ludicrous . . . . there are too many factors not right on the trig story
Well done, Gryphen!
ReplyDeleteYou can always tell when a blog is right on point when discussing Sarah Palin (and her lawyer). It's a delightful post, and you must have hit a nerve, Gryphen, when you bring out all of the trolls. (Or one or two very busy trolls).
ReplyDeleteSome time ago, we had dinner with friends who had turned into Fox Talking Points Fanatics. One comment was that Obama was just another Daley Machine Chicago crooked politician.
The problem is that I live in Illinois, and I remember when Obama was one of a number of Democratic candidates running for senate during the primary. Mayor Daley backed a party regular. Obama was considered an outsider. Only when Obama won the primary, and was out campaigning for a while did Mayor Daley offer his endorsement. Daley held it back until things looked good for Obama. That means that Obama was not a machine politician, but fact don't get in the way of Right wing GOP thinking.
Exactly anon at 4:57. I'm the one who posted the long thing to JuJu about Illinois. Everyone keeps spouting this Chicago mafia stuff, trying to tie him to Blago and other corrupt pols in that state. Obama moved swiftly (minus 11yrs in the leg) to get the hell out of there. He didn't want to be sullied, tainted or pulled into anything going on there. Not the only reason of course because the last presidential election was his time so to speak.
ReplyDeleteJust like all the other backwards things they try communist/socialist/facist all in one they don't even understand the 'mafia' crap they throw around about Chicago. They don't understand that very 'mafia' of politicians would have done anything to wipe out the one guy who wouldn't join in all the bullshit. They would have been the very ones to take him down not prop him up.
I thought it was interesting that Mr. VF compared doubting that Trig is Sarah's to 9/11 and birther conspiracies. Doesn't he know that Sarah recently became a birther herself ? I've forgotten which recent interview it was in, but she definitely said that the public was rightly making an issue of Pres. Obama's birth. I thought was rather reckless of her to bring up a birth. Is she testing to see how much she can get away with ???
ReplyDeleteGryphen, I think that your lunch today was like a stone thrown into a certain lake. It will be fascinating to watch the ripples !
poor juju and the rest of the c4p sycophants really and TRULY believe they will all have cabinet and WH positions come January 2013.
ReplyDeleteThey are wetting themselves all over BELIEVING that the queen listens to and acts their every word and suggestion (and they have a video to PROVE it!!!!)
Sadly, all the queen listens to is their $10 here and there.
O/T - Send the IM trolls BACK to troll school! That's right, this blog needs better trolls: That means new memes, better spelling and more authentic voice. They are all so boring & repetitive that I skip over their entries now.
ReplyDeleteGryphen, you have a good heart and much intelligence and insight. You challenge me, console me, inspire me and you always make me think. I'm grateful that something good--discovering this blog and being able to read your commentary--has come out of the mess that is Sarah Palin's career.
ReplyDeleteGryphen,
ReplyDeleteThank you for doing this. I've seen charity auctions where they offer the strangest of things because that what they are given. I don't think that a VF lunch was too odd.
I also agree that I'm sure he is not really a villian. Most lawyers just like to win, they tend to be more competative than judgemental. He probably did dismiss anything said about the controversy about Trig as just normal conspiracy talk and never even gave it a second thought. The major flaw with most popular conspiracies is that there are tons of counter evidence. Most people just assume that Sarah gave other evidence but she really didn't. It is only her word and saying "Bristol is pregnant" It's so incredibly thin that people can't believe that it would not have been exposed by now.
I too believe that you should send him a packet of photos and those "wild ride" summaries. The post on Palingates with the excerpt from Ozmud about Todd not being concerned enough about his wife's condition to actually drive an hour past NICU equipped hospitals to get to a small rural hospital with a high risk pregancy. As a man, VF surely could relate to what he would do as a husband/father in that situation even if he could buy the whole wild ride as some tough frontier woman story.
There really are no "villians" or "good guys v bad guys" We are all flawed humans of various degrees of integrity and courage. We all think that we are standing up for what's right (even our poor deluded palinbots) It's whether we can see outside of ourselves that seems to make the difference.
I agree with others... sorry to say but you need to moderate again. Debates and intelligent conversation are one thing, but trolls are breeding on here because they are getting fed.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad you were able to meet with this attorney with nothing but good things to say upon your return. Just be careful out there!
-ske in atx
Just wanted to add my congrats...Good things happen when bloggers come up out of the basement...
ReplyDeletelexky
Juju is incredibly dense. If Sarah is playing anyone it's her stupid fans like you who are incapable of seeing what a complete fraud she is. You are pathetic and so are other Palinbots. You guys are in for a rude wakening.
ReplyDeleteAnd this has nothing to do with President Obama! The media knows he is a citizen. That is why they don't bring that up. And Sarah is the queen victim and drama queen. They don't bring her up because they don't want to give up the attention brings to their stations. They see her as a money maker but not a serious politician.
Slither out of here. You are pathetic sorry you and the other Palinbots treat our president with such disrespect. You blame him for things that have nothing to do with him. Frankly the Palinbots appear unAmerican because of this constant disrespect and you are an embarrassment for our country as is Sarah. Most of the country can't stand her and for good reason. It's one thing for people to intelligently talk about their beliefs. It's quite another to berate the President in such a treasonous manner. Sarah is jealous of Barack Obama and she is obsessed with telling him what to do and putting him down. And a lot of people right and left have had it with her. She has no political future and both parties AND independents will make sure she is through. Wait and see.
You can always tell when someome get close to the truth, Sarah sends the peelanders out, JuJu- go back to Peeland, Sarah needs you to send more money!! Wigs, personal hair fluffer, purple boots, new Big house, Todd's "beautiful" cummberbund- but no hat, coat or shoes for Trig.. show's where her priorties are-EVERYTHING FOR SARAH.
ReplyDeleteI thought it was interesting that Mr. VF compared doubting that Trig is Sarah's to 9/11 and birther conspiracies.
ReplyDeleteDoesn't he know that Sarah recently became a birther herself ?
ROTLMAO!!!!!!!!!
Laffs o' the day!!
This is hilarious.
Miss little old Sarah Palin from Wasilla.
Great write up Gryphen! It's all good. A little controversy won't hurt.
Keep it coming Gryphen-their wee weeing all over themselves, trying to cover for their icon. Love it!
ReplyDeleteYup, that's their whole strategy to keep this out of the MSM. Compare the questions about the "birth" to questions about Obama's birth certificate and/or denials of Al Qaeda's responsibility for 9-11. It's actually a very smart strategy on their part - maginalize anyone who has questions. In fact, I believe one of their lackeys warned Andrew Sullivan - keep this up and you'll be completely marginalized. Thankly, Sullivan went to Oxford (where they still seem to be able to produce critical thinkers) and is not easily intimidated by his intellectual lessers.
ReplyDeleteCheck out the website for Van Flein's firm. One of their specialties is representing health care providers. He knows the score. (I'm a health care lawyer myself).
As lawyers (or at least those of us who are not independently wealthy), we represent anyone who can afford to pay our hourly rates and we do it to the best of our ability and it doesn't matter if we think our clients are lying or are not upright citizens. Of course, we all have a personal moral line - some client that we wouldn't represent, no matter how good the money.
I personally wouldn't represent Sarah Palin, even if the big bucks that she is paying Van Flein's firm, because I wouldn't want to do anything to help her succeed. I both disagree with her policies and believe she is mentally unstable. The thought of her being in charge of the nukes gives me the creeps.
I suspect Van Flein is a anti-abortion, climate warming denier conservative Republican and thus feels just fine taking big bucks from Mrs. Todd Palin. I mean if global warming is a big myth and all we have to do is drill baby drill and if Obama is a socialist who is going to take away all of Van Flein's hard-earned bucks, then better to have Sarah in power. Sure, she may be a little bit mentally unstable, but a shadow government ( a la Dick Cheney) can always control the puppet behind the scenes(or so they think).
This reminds me of the song about German and American troops during WWII who stopped fighting around Christmas, came together and played soccer and enjoyed the holiday.
ReplyDeleteVery interesting story Gryphen (And Linda)
I have a little prediction: Van Fleen will no longer be associated with Scarah by Mid January.
VernD
Vern D @ 5:50- Wow, I hope your prediction is right!
ReplyDeleteAnother thought-- Do we know for sure where SP was born? Idaho or Canada ? Has anyone seen HER birth certificate ?
Re: Trig-- by this time, I would not believe that any birth certificate SP came up with would be genuine.
I wish the MSM would understand that faking a birth bears on a candidate's judgment, mental stability and fitness for office.
ReplyDeleteOf course, I diagree with Palin's policies and positions. But, I am sick of hearing about "left wing bloggers." Let's imagine a Democratic candidate for president or vice president whose policies I fervently agreed with, and who had faked a pregnancy and birth. Would I look the other way and say, "hey, but she is right on every issue that matters to me." The answer is a resounding no. We cannot afford to have anyone in office, Democrat or Republican, right-winger or left-winger, who would have the poor judgment to fake a pregnancy. That's what the MSM seems to be missing.
The only talent Sarah Palin has is taking money from incompent attorneys and from her ignorant, hypocritical teet-sucker followers.
ReplyDeleteSarah Palin is a liar, a fraud and a hoax. This is fact.
It really is as simple as that.
Gryphen,
ReplyDeleteDid you ask TVF if he reads the blogs that discuss SP and her many issues, which of course include the number 1 issue - babygate?
I am confident that he will be reading this post and comments so, a note to you TVF: I hope that SP does not owe you a bunch of money, cause I would bet that she is going to be so pissed at you for "giving aid and comfort to the enemy" that she will put you out on the curb.
There's a great article on OZ-Mudflats by Denaliorbust. She-he has the real incite into Sarah of Wasilla and what makes her tick. Oz-Mudflats is listed on the left side under Sarah's least favorite blogs.
ReplyDeleteGood Going, Gryphen and Diva! Sounds like her lawyer dismissed the story as fiction, taking his client's word as fact instead of doing his own homework.
ReplyDeleteSomething's fishy about this lunch date, but I'm not sure on which end.
ReplyDeleteVernD@5.50p - good thoughts, but the "Christmas Truce" was in December, 1914, the first year of WW1. The truce lasted three days and was never repeated during the war.
ReplyDeleteGo Sarah, go far away to a land like Russia which you can see although from your backyard or the turret tower of Bristol's Bribe House under the frost heaves there also!
ReplyDeleteStop the Kenyan South American Muslim Socialist Nazi Sarkozy Lunar Module Under the Umbrella of Real Pro-America, and Good Hardworkin' Soldiers there so let's give 'em a shout-out!
Kill the Polar Bears! Or anything endangered also which is taking up space where we could be driving a ginormous SUV there.
Stop all the socialists from doin' those evil Contra-American kinds of things like medicare and Socialism Security! Also socialist networking like facebook because that is related probably as well too.
Take back the House from Bristol in 2010 when she spills the beans!
Sarah in the WH in 2013....would be quittin' it by 2013 and a half!
Teabagging forever except only the Pro-American Republican Evangelical Conservative kind with like tea bags stapled on a cute hat, not the kind those preverted Post-American gay people do although I do have a gay friend ya know and boy does he have an eye for decorating!
PS: SP biggest hoax ever!
Who better to clear doubts of a baby's origins than his mother?
ReplyDeletePalin would not pass king Solomon"s test.
Well, she didn't even pass McMacain's, she offered Bristol.
I'm still enraged that Vain Flein would ask what mother would give up her baby as if the story was the Trig was found on Sarah's doorstep.
The story is that she faked a pregnancy and presented a baby as her own. Now that is a pregnant allegation, and as her lawyer, He should have let you know how ofensive your allegations are or am i missing something?
Often a neighbor used to claim that she had a miscarrage and people would laughed at her, including my mother, I was eleven and didn.t know that a couple in their late sixties simply can't get pregnant, if she would have showed up with a baby, people would have been alarmed and call the police.
Is Palin a baby snatcher?"
If Mrs. Todd Palin ever did produce a birth certificate for Trig it would need to be carefully examined for white out...
ReplyDeleteI wonder if Orly Taitz is busy cranking up her birth certificate machine ?
Faking a birth is fraud. Palin supporters do not care. If SP was Trigs bio she would have verified fact. As a charlatan she does what she does until it catches up with her. VF is doing what lawyers do. Palin has to be on meds and depending on that is how she will react. Gryph could bring VF and SP closer together.
ReplyDeleteShe grows unnaturally attached to some people.
Wow, Gryphen, I am impressed!
ReplyDeleteOne thing I've learned, you don't ask a question unless you know the answer. VF did that. And I suspect he knew you purchased that ticket.
The photo dated 03-14-08, of Sarah Palin standing on steps shows no pregnancy under that scarf. Push that photo into the public, that is the nail in the coffin. And there are other photos that support a hoax as well. There were no doctors, or nurses, except CBJ who evidently signed a statement making her a part of the hoax. The local church has connections to the hospital board. A baby could have been flown in from out of state. Her prop had to be a child with special needs in order to promote her as a pro-lifer (who allegedly had an amino test and knowingly had a child with DS), to pull pro-lifer votes, to attract women votes. Without that prop, she would still be in Wasilla. Instead, Susan B. Anthony group sponsors her pac. Narrow the focus and stay on target.
Thanks, Gryphen, and Celtic Diva, for such courage and sharing your experience. And for saying something about Trig.
Keep up the good work!
First of all anyone who has studied what went on during JFK's presidency with regard to Cuba and many of the other antics of the CIA to manipulate presidents knows that 9/11 could very well be an inside job. They had a hand in developing Al Quaida for instance. We have a long history of developing revolutions and then waring against them at a later date.
ReplyDeleteSecond, that story is hillarious. One of the huge problems with justice in Alaska is the lack of a law school. Without a body of knowledge to focus on issues and call BS on misinformation and illogical thinking the lawyers in his state have become intellectually lazy, corrupt, and rather than protect us from injustice cause it themselves.
Look, If the Palins adopted Trig - it would have been done at the Palmer AK courthouse. She and Todd would have shown up for a court hearing. Adoption hearings are closed but someone would have seen her and Todd and a baby milling about outside the courtroom. The Palmer courthouse is a very public place and lots of court clerks and lawyers and paralegals are friendly and chat...someone would have revealed something...So, there was NO ADOPTION.
ReplyDeletePearlygirl @ 5:23 wrote about VanFlein:
ReplyDelete"I also agree that I'm sure he is not really a villian. Most lawyers just like to win, they tend to be more competative than judgemental. He probably did dismiss anything said about the controversy about Trig as just normal conspiracy talk and never even gave it a second thought. The major flaw with most popular conspiracies is that there are tons of counter evidence. Most people just assume that Sarah gave other evidence but she really didn't. It is only her word and saying "Bristol is pregnant" It's so incredibly thin that people can't believe that it would not have been exposed by now. "
Well said. I doubt that Van Flein ever really mulled it over. I imagine he just does his job and doesn't really, deeply read the blogs. I am glad that he, Gryphen and Linda had that civil lunch together. Interesting.
Anon @ 6:59-- Thanks for that- I laughed so hard that I woke up my cat!
ReplyDeleteI found the quote where Sarah endorsed the birthers. Andrew Sullivan posted in on Dec. 4th. I 'm sure it's here as well :-)
ReplyDeleteThis is from the transcript of the Rusty Humphries radio interview in which Sarah said that she had already produced Trig's birth certificate, also, too.
Would you make [Obama's long form] birth certificate an issue if you ran?
I think the public, rightfully, is still making it an issue. I don’t have a problem with that. I don’t know if I would have to bother to make it an issue ’cause I think there are enough members of the electorate who still want answers.
Do you think it’s a fair question to be looking at?
I think it’s a fair question, just like I think past associations and past voting record — all of that is fair game. You know, I’ve got to tell you, too: I think our campaign, the McCain/Palin campaign didn’t do a good enough job in that area. We didn’t call out Obama and some of his associates on their records and what their beliefs were and perhaps what their future plans were. And I don’t think that that was fair to voters to not have done our jobs as candidates and as a campaign to bring to light a lot of the things that now we’re seeing made manifest in the administration.
I mean, truly, if your past is fair game and your kids are fair game, certainly Obama’s past should be. I mean, we want to treat men and women equally, right?
Hey, you know, that’s a great point, in that weird conspiracy-theory freaky thing that people talk about that Trig isn’t my real son. And a lot of people say, “Well you need to produce his birth certificate! You need to prove that he’s your kid!” Which we have done. But yeah, so maybe we could reverse that and use the same [unintelligible]-type thinking on them.
Please compare Sarah's words with what VF said to Gryphen :
"Just so you know, if you have convinced yourself this is the case and are trying to find proof of it, it undercuts everything else that you do. It's kinda like saying "9/11 is an inside job" or that OBAMA IS NOT A US CITIZEN. There's just some instances where rational people take a step back. This is fun to think of maybe but it's crazy."
Sarah will not be pleased ! It's getting crowded under that bus LOL!!
Hey people, Van Flain never saw Palin pregnant, was he living in Alaska in late 07, early o8?
ReplyDeleteOh he missed the only ocassion she appeared suddenly, embarassibly pregnant, March 13, 2008. The gutsy pic. She never looked that big before or after.
Phoebes@6:49.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the correction. As i was writing that post, I had a feeling I was wrong on a couple of points, but "what the hey" I was on a roll...LOL
VernD
Juju , instead of sending Sarah cash next month please consider sending a winter jacket for Trig.
ReplyDeleteGryphen, First of all ty for participating in a charity silent auction and thank you for bidding on Van Fleas lunch. Is hew that much of a hick lawyer? My gosh he sounds like he just fell off the turnup truck!
Any BC for Trig, even if they legally adopted him would hold his original birth date and thats why S'error hasn't released it, it doesn't take a rocket scientist.
As for Sarah, I hope she saved some of this last "big check" she received. Only 550 fans in Utah, her star has turned into a falling star. So glad though that also too Tawd got off the roof.
Gryphen,
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure if this was considered as a possibility already, but is it possible that Trig was adopted by SP on the night she claims to gave given birth? That, in fact, another woman gave birth to baby Trig? Were there other babies born in that hospital on the night or that Sarah allegedly gave birth?
If so, could any of them really be Trig? Can you find out who the parents are of the babies that were born that night.
If this were the case, it would make sense that Sarah would insist on going all the way back to some clinic in Wasilla "to give birth" instead of having the baby in Anchorage. If her reason for flying back to Alaska to give birth was so that Trig would be born in Alaska, why not just deliver in Anchorage, where the facilities are much better for high risk pregnancies?
Attention all trolls!
ReplyDeleteTime is of the essence! It isn't safe here. Quick! Run, run juju, etal! There is a bridge to nowhere that you should be hiding under. Just follow Sarah--she'll lead you right to it.
Oops! There's no bridge there, you say? My bad.
Okay, then, make a run to her house(s) in Wasilla--plenty of room for you all, there--besides, she built it with your hard earned money, didn't she? Sorry, did she lock you all out, again? That's too bad.
Well, darn, there's only one place for you all to go--hurry, climb on her bus. Oh, come on now, no need for pushing or shoving, there's plenty of room for all of you--since she and her brood fly everywhere and it's empty most of the time.
Okay. Is everyone comfortable? All together, now...1, 2, 3!
The wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round, round and round, while the engines on the plane go vroom, vroom, vroom...and Sa-rah looks down.
The trolls on the bus sing dumb me down, dumb me down, dumb me down! The trolls on the bus sing steal me blind--Sa-rah here's my purse.
Actually, it's difficult to say which is more unbelievable: Sarah's Madonna/Whore routine or the numb skulls who (literally) buy into it.
I'm not a lawyer, but I have been support staff for many of them. Private practice is where you can make the money if you're lucky. You don't turn away business. I would like to give a shout out to the public servants, assistant DA's and assistant PD's. Most move on with their court experience, but the ones that stay are the heros - on both sides. Cheers to the public servants who never get any credit for the work they do. I know, OT, but it must be said.
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone know if Alaska State Representative Carl Gatto was at the hospital with Sarah during April when Trig was said to ''pop out?''
ReplyDeleteI heard that she worked during that time and a state legislator brought her papers to sign. Would anyone know what bill she signed and if it was Rep Carl Gatto who was at the hospital with Sarah? That would have been a good question for VF. He based his opinion of gave birth on who was at the hospital. He may want a list.
I've heard of Chuck and Sally Heath, Bristol Palin, Levi Johnston, Willow, Piper and Todd Palin, Dr. Cathy Baldwin-Johnson and possibly Alaska State Representative Carl Gatto.
Gryphen.......I remember you telling us that there may be a big "story" coming out about MsPerfect around December 17th. Is that still in the works? I'm sitting on pins and needles waiting for the scoop !!!
ReplyDeleteIf Sarah simply had herself named Trig's guardian, he would then have been covered under her insurance--or at least, under most insurance plans. It's done all the time in families when a dependent minor daughter has a child. Not a formal adoption, just a guardianship.
ReplyDeleteNot saying Trig must be Bristol's, but only that they wouldn't have had to go through an adoption procedure.
And there's a very, very interesting comment from someone who's know Sarah for years over at http://ozmud.wordpress.com/ Do go read it.
I think many suspect that Sarah's rush home was for another woman's impending delivery of Trig, because she already planned to adopt, or take him. At least she and Todd planned to present him as their biological son. But we also wonder if the baby arrived earlier than the date given - the dates surrounding the Wild Ride - and if there might have been additional circumstances of some kind which forced Sarah into the timeline she presented to the public, specifically about his delivery date. Meaning, why the sudden rush back to Alaska saying the baby was coming? Did she always plan to fly home after her Texas meeting, and then say she delivered Trig? She may have just erred by not thinking through the believability, or not, of her story. Then there's the part about her Dad adding details to the story for the press, which forced her into more particulars than she may have planned on sharing with the public. It makes my head spin, did you hear that Sarah?
ReplyDeleteAnon@7:37, I agree that Sarah and Todd may not have actually adopted Trig. I would imagine you are correct that something would have leaked out about any legal proceedings, or someone would have confirmed it on the record by this point.
ReplyDeleteI would like to know more about adoptions. If that is a possibility regarding Sarah it is important. Not all adoption happens in Wasilla and you don't always have to go to a court house. You can sign papers in a hospital and other places. Parents can pick up a baby in Fairbanks, Seattle or Calgary. A mother and baby can be transported to be born in a specific place. A church adoption may be quiet different from another. Those who are against the government may want little state involvement. Illegal or shady adoptions are more prevalent than we want to know.
ReplyDeleteVan Flein focused on who was at the hospital, that seems more important now. Both Dr. Cathy Baldwin-Johnson and Alaska State Representative Carl Gatto are long time church going members and residents in the Wasilla area. If Rep Carl Gatto or another legislator worked with Sarah April 17-18 what were all the papers she signed?
CR46 said... a jacket for Trig.
That is a great idea. When he is dressed bots can continue to donate to the children who can't afford winter wear.
Mr. Van Flein ~
ReplyDeleteThank you for having lunch with Gryphen and Celtic Diva. You are not so evil in my eyes, now. Crafty, slick, deflective (after all, you are a lawyer) ~ yes, but evil ~ no.
I understand your defense of your client. But her not looking out for Trig's best interests is indefensible (realizing, of course, that Trig is not your client).
From the way she treated her pregnancy (at the least), to callously pulling him off of a bus for a photo op, she over and over has behaved as if she does not like Trig.
If she produced, directed, and starred in a reality show focused around Trig's intense therapy, i would breathe a sigh of relief for two reasons: Trig and Mrs. Palin each getting the different kinds of attention they need, and Mrs. Palin being duly occupied.
Do you think she would like doing a reality show? Focusing on Trig's needs? On Fox, of course?
Sincerely,
A Real American Concerned Mom In A Red State
Levi does keep saying he will not tell
ReplyDeleteeverything... a-d-o-p-t-i-o-n ?
Anon @ 8:48, I am assuming Sarah and Todd could have easily become the guardians of Trig if he were either Bristol's or Track's son. (I have never thought Willow was involved.) I do think people tend to forget that Sarah and Todd may possibly be related to Trig through their son, not necessarily through their daughter.
ReplyDeleteanon at 7:37
ReplyDeletewhat an inane statement. You do not have to adopt a child in the county you live in.
Gryphen...WOO HOOOO...You went into the lion's lair! Awesome! Van Flein won't be on the payroll long now! KUDOs!
ReplyDeleteSherlock
After all is said and done, isn't it pretty clear that Palin adopted a special needs baby for political purposes - specifically to parade it around as pro-life credentials to find a way onto the Republican 2008 ticket?
ReplyDeleteThis is pretty easy to grasp.
When people say its complicated or that their eyes glaze over, I think they are just being a bit lazy. It's not that much of a leap to consider that a corrupt female politician would do what she could to grab power - we are just used to the corrupt ways men grab power and this is a bit of a twist, but nothing new really.
Mr. Thomas Van Flein:
ReplyDeleteSarah Palin, Trig, Dr. Cathy Baldwin-Johnson, Alaska State Representative Carl Gatto at(Wasilla Teabagger Picnic)
Mat-Su Regional Medical Center in Wasilla
So Many Questions About Palin and So Few Answers
ReplyDeleteCarol Roye, EdD, RN, CPNP | Women's Health is a Family Issue
When the blogosphere filled with stories that Palin was Trig’s grandmother, not his mother, why didn’t she just ask her doctor, Dr. Cathy Baldwin-Johnson, to back up her story and save Bristol the embarrassment? Well, for one thing, Dr. Baldwin-Johnson may be MIA. Her name no longer appears on the website of the Mat-su Regional Medical Center where Gov. Palin is purported to have delivered Trig. And, there is no record of the baby’s birth there. Of course, Dr. Baldwin-Johnson does not want to be found. If she had really told this 44 year-old mother with pre-term, premature rupture of membranes to get on a plane and fly 4000 miles, she could lose her license. That would be malpractice. And Palin says she called the doctor from Seattle to check in. Do you think that Dr. Baldwin-Johnson could do an internal exam via the phone to see how dilated the Governor was? It is preposterous.
"...sadly for me I have an overabundance of curiosity an it will simply not be satiated until, I and everyone, else know the truth behind one the biggest lies ever foisted upon the American people."
ReplyDeleteWell, Gryphen, it certainly seems like you're willing to go to your grave with the what you consider the "truth" of the hoax unproven.
Let me cite a few precedents:
The identity of "Jack the Ripper", even though investigated by thousands of individuals and organizations such as Scotland Yard, has not been established since his serial killings of 1888.
The "Zodiac Murders" committed in Northern California in the 1960's--almost a half century ago--remain unsolved.
In January 1947, 22-year-old Elizabeth Short, "The Black Dahlia" was discovered nude and mutilated in a vacant lot in the Leimert Park area of Los Angeles. Her murder is considered the worst case of a sex crime in the history of Los Angeles County and it remains unsolved.
Amelia Earhart's disappearance in 1937 still defies explanation.
Despite the conviction of Bruno Hauptmann in 1932, modern forensic evidence suggests the true kidnapper of the Lindbergh baby was never
apprehended.
Finally, despite one of the largest international manhunts of the 20th century involving intelligence experts from many nations, Josef Mengele capture for 34 years and his whereabouts where only made known after he drowned in South America.
Yeah.
You and Andrew Sullivan with your limitless resources are going to get to the bottom of the crime of the century.
Again, have a great life. You'll wind up like Orson Wells did in "Citizen Kane". On your deathbed you'll be muttering "Trig...Trig...Trig... ."
I think it's extremely significant, if we are to believe VF, that he has not seen a birth certificate for Trig either. He seems convinced by Palin's word only. He, apparently, has not seen proof either and admittedly did not see her during her pregnancy.
ReplyDeleteTo, me, this strenghtens the theory that Trig is not her bio child.
Well good job, Gryphen and Diva!
ReplyDeleteVF is a lawyer. He gets to be the Governor's lawyer. OF course he's going to take that gig, and he doesn't care or even SHOULD care about the facts as she tells them. His job, is to do her bidding, within the law.
I thought it was rather NAIVE of him though, to assume that Trig-Prop MUST be hers, because so many people are in the delivery room. WOW ... does he have kids? Does he think a delivery is like open-heart surgery? Amazing.
BTW ... according to Sarah, there was CBJ, who is not an OB-GYN .. and I doubt an anesthesiologist would be there, unless they knew there would be a problem. Even C-sections are not under a general anymore, anyway.
He seemed surprised that Gryphen 'really believed' this? Interesting ... I bet he's never thought about it much, he just dismissed it as a hoax that couldn't possibly be attempted; hey, I thought that too at one time, before I realized how easily Sarah just believes her lies will never be challenged. It's as if she never considers Video/published quotes/records/witnesses actually exist! Her attitude seems to be 'if I say it, they'll believe it' .. she must have been a VERY CUTE little girl, to be so secure in that idea of 'I can get away with anything' ...
Gryphen ... I really do hope the thing unravels soon. I really do hope that you 'know' what you 'know' ...
However, I don't for a moment believe that her Palinbots will see this as a betrayal or that she will lose support from them. From the Republican party, yes. From thinking people?? Of course. Had this story concluded even 6 months ago, it would be a different story; but now, her Palinbots are SO INVESTED in her, that nothing will shake them loose!
AND >>>>>>>> it's going to be SO MUCH FUN to watch it!
DO HURRY!
Impressive even if a bit polite. Novel investigative opportunity. Kudos to the prson who recognized the value of that auction item. Progreess this week-this lunch,Andrew Sullivan and Levi on Joy Behar show. Even Mercede fed up. Keep up cracking the Babygate dam.
ReplyDeleteGeeezz Guys are you so blind you can't figure out what is going on. I have posted this several times and no one believes me. Of course, Sarah is not going to produce any BC, why should she??? With all of you writing about this all the time it just keeps the truth about OBAMA's BC an issue too. It just makes lots people on both sides look stupid. Why just have the Republicans looking stupid about questioning OBAMA's BC, when you can have you liberals looking just as stupid questioning Trigg's BC.
ReplyDeleteYou notice none of the MSM ever pick up on these issues for more then a day or so....because they don't want to question OBAMA about his long form birth certificate either. If it was just Trigg's BC the MSM would be all over this story. Sarah is playing you all like a fiddle.
Excellent post, Juju.
I'm not going to argue with anyone here, but I will point out a few things for people to chew on.
If you were Sarah Palin, would it not be a sign of political weakness to deliver a birth certificate on the request of only a few bloggers?
In addition, would it not also be politically advantageous to keep this story alive in the media? It would allow you to stereotype your political opponents while at the same time setting up a trap for those journalists who would take the bait. It would be Dan Rather 2004 all over again.
For me....the proof that Trig is NOT Sarah Palin's BIOLOGICAL son is.......the single facvt that Levi has had to hire a bodyguard. that boy is holding one mighty big secret. That says it all folks.
ReplyDeleteI find the rhetorical question "what woman would give up her baby" interesting for two reasons.
ReplyDelete1) Yes, it deflects the question about from Palin's accused behavior
2) Palin is supposed to be rabidly anti-abortion. In addition to the ever-popular push for abstinence, the glory of adoption is always the default back-up plan (after marriage, of course).
Why would Palin's attorney be baffled by the concept of a woman giving up her child for adoption, especially a special needs child in a low employment/income high rape/drug & alcohol use state?
It's not that they lie. It's that they lie so badly and still get away with it.
Jesse, Jesse, Jesse ... you are too cute! And now you have your friends here, helping you rant!
ReplyDeleteListen, Jesse. Rant all you want! Stomp those feet! Won't change a thing....
NO woman behaves as Sarah did, according to her story
NO Doctor would advise her patient the way Sarah says her doctor did.
Even her Palinbots KNOW it, Jesse. Usually, when someone says anything against Sarah, the Palinbots are screaming for blood! On the Sullivan interview??? NOTHING, Jesse!
They are ignoring it, because they KNOW her birth story just ... hmm .. doesn't hold water! (pun intended)
I am hoping for a Xmas present from Santa Sullivan and his hard working elves, Regina, Patrick, Bree and Gryphen!
Well, aren't we all??? (wink!)
Re: Sarah and lawsuits. I know she has had Mr. Van Flein write nasty letters. Does anybody know if she's ever actually sued anyone? I think even she realizes that if she did, she'd be deposed under oath. I don't think she's going to sue anyone.
ReplyDeleteI think Van Flein was working you, Gryphen. On behalf of his client, he wanted to know what YOU know so he could report back. He was, after all, not under oath, and could try to lead you in all directions to get information out of you and Linda.
ReplyDeleteI truly believe that Sarah has said, "We don't respond to babygate issues, but I need to know what THEY know.
Think about it.
VF didn't arrange the lunch.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous at 1:32 AM said, "VG didn't arrange the lunch."
ReplyDeleteThat's right, he didn't. However, he's a lawyer. Stands to reason that as soon as he realized what was going on, he would seek as much info as possible on behalf of his client. Any smart lawyer would.
Anon at 10:25pm said "You'll wind up like Orson Wells did in "Citizen Kane". On your deathbed you'll be muttering "Trig...Trig...Trig... ."
ReplyDeleteNaah. By them Sarah Palin, her half-baked supporters, and her entire self-absorbed dysfunctional dog and pony show will have been relegated to the ash heap of tabloid history, where they rightfully belong. (We do hope Trig has some glasses, hearing aids, and a jacket to wear by then.)
Well done, Gryphen and Celtic Diva! I think this lunch clearly paves the way for you to send the aforementioned packet of info -- focusing on the very best photos -- to VF for his edification. I wondered why he said that the birth records are public record -- I thought this was not true? But I have always been curious about how AK can provide a dividend check for all Alaskan citizens, when it does not require a birth certificate? How can that be? It seems like an invitation to fraud. In any case, I would think that his statement would also allow you to ask him to please follow up by obtaining the original (certified) birth certificate, and making it available for inspection.
ReplyDeletejuju, come back when your 2nd brain cell is fully developed. right now you are playing with adults and your child like view of s'arah is silly at best
ReplyDeleteAnon at 7:58: You helped me realize another item that hasn't been widely posted and considered: While original birth records are sealed for adoptees, we have been assuming that while Trig's birth certificate, if he were adopted, would show Todd & Sarah as his parents, the date of birth would show the original date of birth, and many have spaculated that Trig was not born in April 18th or whatever alleged date Sarah has been spouting. This has always been why we have not seen Trig's birth certificate. But anon's 7:58 post has me thinking that the wild ride may also had to have happened if adoptee's birth certificates ALSO are required to show the true place of birth. So in that case Texas or Anchorage would not do if Trig was wombed in Wasilla. Maybe, Todd and Sarah were considering this in performing their scam and the wild ride. Just failed to consider the date of birth issue or thought that it would be easily be overlooked until the national Trig birther movement started. Anyone know with certainty whether adoptee birth certificates are required to show the original PLACE of birth?
ReplyDeleteWas Shannyn invited to dine with VF?
ReplyDeleteMaybe she should invite him to be a guest on her show...
Since VF may be paid by the legal slush fund.. were there any questions about the fund?
@Anon at 8:33--Thanks for the link to the Oz blog. That comment--an essay, really, is well worth reading. This is just a snippet:
ReplyDelete"This very act of questioning is what annoys – well, it’s more than annoyance – it’s what infuriates her family members and her too. They have this attitude like it’s her right – she has ascended to a position that is her right and how dare anyone question how she got here, if she’s fit, what’s she’s doing, why she’s doing it.
You see, Sarah lived virtually the whole of her life not being questioned. … She was never treated like a mayor – she was always treated much more like a queen who would, out of the majesty of her own heart, deign to speak with her subjects – and they should be so grateful for her attention."
It's a fascinating portrait of how Palin's "reign" as Mayor of Wasilla and the creation of a "glamourous" public persona laid the foundation for the malevolent demagogue we see today.