What the hell is happening in Arizona?
I mean perhaps an argument can be made, however flimsy, that the law permitting police officers to request proof of citizenship from suspected illegal aliens is driven by crime statistics, and the desire to locate people living illegally in this country, but how does anybody justify this?
From Politico:
The law prohibits the teaching of any classes that promote “the overthrow of the United States government,” “resentment toward a race or class of people,” “are designed primarily for pupils of a particular ethnic group” or “advocate ethnic solidarity instead of the treatment of pupils as individuals.”
Neither the governor nor the bill’s supporters have identified examples where a Chicano studies class has advocated the “overthrow” of the federal government, and the bill’s opponents in the state have expressed outrage over what they see as a law that unfairly targets Hispanics.
Why even continue to call the state "Arizona"? Why not simply take this new racist attitude to its natural conclusion and call it "Aryan-zona"?
With policies this racist you would imagine that most reasonable people would be fleeing the state by the truckload. At this point I can barely imagine what kind of insensitive xenophobic person would find themselves attracted by Arizona's new policies and the politicians who implemented them.
NBC/WSJ poll out today:
ReplyDeleteAnother significant event in recent weeks was Arizona’s new anti-illegal immigration law, which makes it a state crime for a person to be in the country illegally. It also requires local and state law enforcement officials to question people about their immigration status if they suspect those persons are in the country illegally.
Sixty-four percent favor this law, and 34 percent oppose it.
I support the AZ laws. Your racism label is getting old. We, those who support such laws, are not racist. We value the letter of the law, legal immigration, and outsiders coming to this country to join the melting pot.
ReplyDeleteTea party supporter I am, racist I am not.
kay if not racist, then hypocrite
ReplyDelete"Tea party supporter I am, racist I am not." = oxymoron
ReplyDeleteGryphen...Today is Thurday...You promised us a long interesting post abt Sarah. Hope it comes through.
ReplyDelete@anonymous above: look as usual conservative tea party types miss the point. Liberals are against illegal immigration too. The problem that we have with laws of this kind are that in achieving the end of catching some illegals the means involves the targetting of people that are legal citizens, targetted just bc they are Latino. It's the same unfairness that you are supporting as that you are also complaining about - that the tea partys are accused of racism. In both cases whole groups suffer from the actions of a few. It's hypocritical of you. YOU don't like being accused of racism simply bc there are some racist tea partiers; likewise legal Latinos have the right to be angry that they will be treated differently simply bc of their race
ReplyDeleteThats a new one ( from your poster above). He proudly declares what he believes in without one oz of compassion for people who have had to flee their country for good reason. I bet he doesn't have a clue how much it costs to immigrate legally or how complicated the process is.
ReplyDeleteIn the 30s and 40s millions of Jews from Europe tried to immigrate to the US and only the ones with money got in. America didn't want those dirty Jews you know. Who cares if they were being killed, just look the other way.
What your dense uninformed poster doesn't get is America LET these millions of Hispanics enter legally because some industries wanted dirt cheap labor. And WE used these people like dogs, paid them next to nothing. Now our economy is bad so bye bye Mexicans.
Most tea partiers have a very sefish me,me,me world view. There is so much they don't get and their principles are simplistic and naive. They simply want everything for themselves withoutt regard for others.
The new education law is racist. It's not getting old to say that.
I don't believe the polls and if they are right it's because most people like your self serving poster don't even get that we wanted all these illegals and allowed this.
But don't blame everyone in Arizona. We didn't vote on these laws Gryphen. And many who live here do not agree. We can't just pick up and move. And I could say to you- why do you live in a state that clearly hates gays and has people who elect such rt wing nut job crooked politicians.
I agree with you about the laws but your comments that all of us should pick up and leave Arizona is stupid. Oh sure, we'll desert the houses we can't sell and our jobs and get up and move cuz we hate the new laws. What ridiculous and stupid statements. Why don't you get in your truck and up and leave Alaska. I mean your state is so backwards!!
ReplyDeleteI like most of your posts and agree with the premise of them but then you fly off the handle and act so holier than thou. Then I wonder why I read here.
I guess I had faith you really could get to the bottom of babygate but you haven't and you've made a lot of promises to your readers that have not come true. You've even taken money based on these promises of information that would shock us.
Sorry but your comments about how we should all leave our state just piss me off. Think about it!
Has anyone ever noticed, or is it just me, that in some photos $arah is top heavy...most often when wearing a tight-knit top? Yet in many other photos she has nothing going on in that department. I swear she wears either a water-bra, or some sort of fake-boob get-up! Guess one should not be surprized -- everything about her is FAKE!!!!!
ReplyDeleteNo one who supports the new Arizona laws can say that those laws are not racist - particularly when this new law is added to the mix. Your mind may simply be too concrete, too limited to understand this. You have to be able to see the bigger picture and think about consequences. Concrete rather than abstract thinking precludes the ability to think beyond black & white, here & now. Sorry for you; sorry for all of us.
ReplyDeleteYou go ahead and delude yourself that you are not racist.
I, too, am against illegal activity, but I value the spirit of the law - an abstract concept. You value the letter of the law, a concrete concept. Herein lies the problem --- the spirit of the law is what gets interpreted in courts where all the facts as well as the intentions of the law are weighed against each other if the judges and juries are fair.
If you supported legal immigration and the melting pot, you would stand against this latest law. Many people who support both of those concepts stand against this new law because of the consequences it engenders.
Restricting and constricting what constitutes history along racial and ethnic lines is racist.
But you go ahead, and pat your little head and tuck yourself into bed with a clear conscience. After all, you are probably not a person of color or don't have a person of color in your family or circle of friends. You just go enjoy yourself while the rest of us try to clean up this mess.
BTW, love the "Aryan-izona" Could even drop the "i" and make it work to perfectly describe what's happening.
ReplyDeleteI sure don't notice anyone of color applauding this law.
My step-father was first generation Italian-American. His father committed suicide after trying for years to get a small grocery store to work in Birmingham, AL. But the whites wouldn't go to it because he was "too colored," and the blacks wouldn't go to it because he was "too white."
Dad endured racist slurs his entire life because of his olive complexion. He worked in factories where these wonderful "patriots" didn't like "foreigners" and brown-skinned folks. Why, those folks didn't regard themselves as racist either - they were just being good Americans. Yeah, right.
So, don't go talking to me Anonymous 10:20 about the benign nature of your beliefs. The new Arizona laws are hateful, based on fear and mistrust of "the other."
You'd better face facts: white people are not going to be in the majority for much longer - in fact, in the world generally we are not and in certain states, we are not.
Learn tolerance now or learn it the hard way as you yourself face racism against whites. Sad to say, there will be folks on the other side thinking themselves to be moral and lawful as well when you get the short-end of the deal.
What goes around does come around. At least try to understand what immigrants of color have to go through. Weren't Conservatives calling themselves compassionate just a few years ago? It wasn't true then, and it's just as false now if, by being conservative, you support these short-sighted, mean-spirited laws.
The Tea Party and the Republican Party are disgracing themselves by their misplaced support of these new laws.
BTW, there is a really, really good chance these laws are unconstitutional an then where you going to be?
Anonymous@10:20 tell me precisely how many years you and your family have been within the borders of this country? 100, 200, 500? Call yourself native American? Arizona was Hispanic first. By the way before Hawaii and AK it was the most recent state to come into the Union. Do you know your history at all.
ReplyDeleteThank heaven the Navaho nation is there and the other reservations. Will you set up traps outside their borders to check them out if they dare to leave. Many native Americans are dark skinned and they were in Arizona loooong before you and yourin.
What Arizona has done is a travesty. And yes, it is very racist. Get used to it buddy. Your there.
Value the letter of the law? Laws can be passed that are very racist and prejudicial, that does not mean they are fair and balanced. You know, like all those good German folks who guarded concentration camps. They were just following the letter of the law. They fit what you quoted exactly.
The new AZ laws are racist. I support the boycotts. Wonder if AZ people call Sheriff Arpaio when Hispanics come into their stores to shop? Or when the white companies hire Hispanics? Wonder if the good people of AZ are cracking down on those businesses too? Sheriff Arpaio running any raids on them? It would be just as easy to identify those companies as it would be to identify Latinos because they're all white. I support the boycotts and I'm extending that to businesses in my area when people identify themselves as teabaggers racists. (Okay...teabaggers / racists is redundant. Sorry). By the way, I've lived in border states - down close to the border for 50 years, Phoenix in 3 years and I'm white.
ReplyDeleteWould Anon 10:20 support the Arizona laws if they were targeting Canadians? Of course then any old white person could be asked for ID,
ReplyDeleteand taken off the streets. . . . And it's crap that the law isn't racist. Arizona again shows her true colors. They basically had to go bankrupt years ago because they were the LAST state to deny the King holiday. Everyone boycotted them like everyone will now.
It will be interesting to see who will now visit the state and have their conventions there. There will probably be a lot of Klan and Aryan action going on in hotels in the coming months.
Also--Anon 10:20 admitting you are a teabagger does not help your case. Sorry, it just doesn't. I really tire of people hiding behind all things racist and screaming about the purity of their motives. Gryphen just calls it out. Also--isn't this the meme a lot of your brothers and sister teabaggers have been accusing the Obama administration of? Calling him a Nazi. Saying the government is usurping rights. A police state even. Well, Arizona seems to have that knocked. And no official word from the teabaggers. Hmmmm.
I supposed all African American history classes are to be axed next. Oops--Texas is already doing that in text books. What about history of the Native Americans? Will they be getting rid of American History classes next ('cause let's face it Native Americans are the only TRUE Americans). They already don't want people with accents teaching English in pure Arizona.
Arizona has become a Nazi state. I don't even want to fly over the damned place. Next step--all Hispanics will have to wear certain colored arm bands. Anyone who supports these laws are just fooling themselves that they are JUST worried about illegal immigration.
There's a whole other putrid concoction going on in Arizona.
Interesting responses. To me this law is somewhat amazing. I don't understand people who think like that. Of course the fact that Texas dictates what constitutes US history is also amazing.
ReplyDeleteI could dig up some papers that prove I'm a citizen and cart them along with me to Arizona. I could, but why bother? There are plenty of other places to take my tourist dollars. Arizona is just simply not competitve in the marketplace.
ReplyDeleteKept your law, Arizona, if want, but don't moan about the consequences when your tourist industry shrivels up.
Makes me wish Mexico would just get militant and start a war on the border to try and take back their land - hey, then maybe we can finally get our troops the hell out of Iraq and Afghanistan and back home to defend our borders, eh?
ReplyDeleteIsn't it the Tea Party folks that are essentially trying to overthrow the government? Did the Platinum haired and skin Governor sign a law to tamp down on their birther platform? Cool.
ReplyDeleteI used to live in Arizona. My in-laws still do. I love that state, but it has always been a bit strange. Now its strangeness has gone too far past the "little bit eccentric" label into fullblown racist nutballery. And my in-laws, who have lived in Arizona since they retired many years ago, are seriously considering leaving. As for "well then why don't you leave Alaska...", I lived in Alaska too (lots of family there), and I DID leave Alaska because of one of its state problems: high alcoholism rate. Again, great state, big problems. Each person makes a personal choice when they find themselves a bad match for their state. They either stick around and hope it eventually improves (California, I'm still waaaaaiiitttttiinnnngggggg....), or they move to some place that fits them better. Some people never consider moving. Some people find that it is on their short list. We are all different that way.
ReplyDeleteAs for this idea that a "majority" supports these stupid, unconstitutional laws, that's the beauty of our great Constitution. It is designed to protect the minority FROM THE MAJORITY, when the majority steps over the constitutional line. It would be difficult to find somebody who does not believe our immigration system is a mess and our south border is a problem. But it is how we deal with it that will determine whether we are truly a great nation or just a xenophobic mob.
It's not that I'm psychic or anything, but I got the hell out of Arizona four years ago. Fifty years of Republican bullshit was all I was up for.
ReplyDeleteThe law prohibits the teaching of any classes that promote “the overthrow of the United States government,”
ReplyDelete-----
Duh!!! I suppose there are a ton of schools in Arizona with classes that specify "teach overthrow of US gov.". And tons more were planning to add such a class. So now Arizona is safe from that menace.
To fill that hole in the curriculm, the schools can add classwork on how to decide which people look like they are illegal in this country and police powers in that situation.
I hope Arizona's governor and legislators are stopped and asked for documentation EVERY SINGLE day.
How would present day, lawabiding Arizona citizens feel, if the Native people had required proof of citizenship from your ancestors when they first arrived in Arizona? At that moment in history, this was Native land and YOUR ancestors were the outsiders. Perhaps all nonNative people, should show proof of citizenship to the Original First Nations inhabitants of Arizona. How does that make you feel?
ReplyDeleteNeither the gov of Tx, Perry or his opponent, White wants this law in Tx. They know it will sink them. I wonder about that poll
ReplyDeleteUnder this law, anyone who looks Hispanic can be hauled off to the police station if they don't have their "papers" on them.
ReplyDeleteNot to mention all the "Born in East LA" scenarios that will play out.
Any white person who says "I'd be happy to produce my papers if asked" would sing a much different tune if they had to sit in a holding cell for a few hours just because they forgot their wallet when they left home that day.
jk
I live in a border city (NOT Arizona). I'm white, and a minority in my community. I've been surprised by the number of Hispanics, many 1st and 2nd generation's, who SUPPORT the Arizona law. I am not comfortable with the law, but understand where it's coming from, even if I don't like it. Life down here is so different than other places. I love the unique tri-culture of my state and don't want it to change. Even though my chidlren are "white" and blonde hair /blue eyed, they both identify with the Hispanic culture and speak Spanish fluently. This is such a complicated emotional issue. I do not know what the answer is.
ReplyDelete'we are going to forbid studies that help you to learn about other cultures' - and people defend that????
ReplyDeleteThere are more things afoot in AZ politics than I can explain, but start with the fact that Tucson is an island of Blue, and that this new law aimed at banning Ethnic Studies classes is targeted specifically at Tucson Unified School District's programs. The law also bans teachers with accents from teaching English - and comes on the heels of there having been an effort for several years to recruit English teachers from Central and South America for English as a Second Language classes. The Arizona v. Tucson aspect of this is not new - it's a perennial battle. Also note that it is our (Pima County) Sheriff Clarence Dupnik who immediately and publicly announced his department will not enforce the immigration law. Tucson (UofA) and Flagstaff (NAU), both college towns and both more progressive than the rest of the state, are both suing the state to block the immigration law. TUSD has announced that their ethnic studies programs do not violate the new law, and will continue. Look for that to end up in court also. A few random facts may contribute some insights:
ReplyDelete- Forty % of our state legislators have no education beyond HS
- 75% of the Republican majority are birthers
- (Interim) Gov Brewer, who ascended to the position from Sec'y of State after Janet Napolitano was selected to head Homeland Security, has only some local community college classes beyond HS, and enables a conservative majority in the legislature to run amok w/out adult supervision.
- AZ has a large population of retired, conservative people, a large Mormon population (the Mormon temple in Mesa is probably second only to Salt Lake), a large number of fundies, and a low education level in general.
- Debate on the floor of the House over granting a permit to allow Uranium mining near the Grand Canyon included such intellectual gems as "the earth has been doing just fine for 5,000 yrs w/out environmental regulations." (Thankfully Interior stepped in and blocked that one after AZ granted the permit.)
- I don't often buy beer, but stopped to grab a six pack last Sunday as I was headed fishing. I discovered that I cannot buy alcohol on Sunday until after 10 a.m. Not sure who issued that fatwa.
I could go on for an hour. Bottom line seems to be this - if you want to see what Common Sense Conservative (aka ignorant redneck) governance looks like - watch Arizona. If it doesn't inspire you to appreciate the importance of supporting Progressive governance, you might be a Teabagger.
Anon 10:20...the new law is blatantly racist. If we are serious about taking care of this problem, we would address the source...the people who are illegally hiring illegal immigrants. (And tea baggers, don't give me that 'fake paper/ID' b.s....if bar owners are responsible for underage drinkers with a fake ID, then the same rule applies here.) Just because the people who are breaking the law are white, doesn't absolve them of criminal behavior. In summary, remove the reason they come (work) and they will stop coming and/or go home.
ReplyDeleteRegarding the "new" bill, again, racist..apparently, ethnic studies is okay only if you are white. Case in point....Texas mandates that Tx history be taken by ALL students. Texas also gets to tell THEIR version of said history.
It is beyond pathetic.
While walking my dog, I was musing over the Arizona situation. As I posted above, I live in a predominantly Hispanic town, 40 miles from the border. Anytime I leave my small city in any direction, I am stopped at a Border Patrol station and asked for my citizenship. Sometimes I am asked for my Drivers License. Sometimes my car is checked top to bottom. Two weeks ago, not only was I asked for my citizenship, I also had TWO drug sniffing dogs go over my car while the Border Patrol officer looked in my back seat. I'm a middle aged white woman...about as white bread looking as you can get, but must have fit a certain profile they were looking for that day. I have many stories of being stopped by Mexican Federales armed with automatic rifles while traveling in Mexico. Scary stuff. My son lived in Moscow for a while, and was routinely asked for his papers and harassed on a daily basis. My son-in-law is an Israeli, he is always asked for his papers. We live in a strange world...we only think we are free here.
ReplyDeleteI think people support the AZ law because they don't truly realize how stupid it is. It has all downside and no upside. It makes not having paperwork a misdemeanor and imposes a fine--no deportation. All it does is threaten legal citizens with harassment, add to the burden of law enforcement and not address the real problem of illegal immigration at all. It is poorly written, ineffective and expensive and does not serve the people of AZ or the purpose supposedly behind it at all. It truly is just dumb--regardless of how you feel about illegal immigration. I don't think most people have bothered to look into beyond knee-jerk "illegal immigration is bad" or "racial profiling is bad" reactions. My objection to it is that it is a lousy bill that ultimately will cost a lot of money and solve nothing.
ReplyDeleteIn terms of the banning of 'ethnic studies,' it really is an attempt to rewrite history. The paranoid fringe out there truly believes that there is a 'reconquest' movement on the part of Mexico to retake areas in the SW United States. If there are such movements, they are laughable and clearly no actual threat to the US. For God's sake, the Mexicans can't even keep their own towns from being overrun by drug lords, how in the world would they ever mount a legitimate attack against the US? Again, it is plain stupidity being codified into law. Since there are no classes that support the 'overthrow of the US government' in AZ schools, the clear intent of this bill is to rewrite American history so that the white Europeans who brutally claimed land are cast as heroes and not villains--you know, sort of like the Communists do with their history when they take out anything unflattering. I really don't see how these developments can be taken as anything but an assault on Hispanic heritage. There is no move to rewrite history in relation to our wars and skirmishes with the Canadians up where I live in the north and no laws requiring cops to verify identity for anyone who says 'eh' too much!
I suppose gender studies will be the next target of the AZ State legislature. We certainly don't want women thinking they've made valuable contributions to society over our history because that will just cause us to get all uppity and stuff.
Hoken, I appreciate you pointing out some facts about Arizona. It's like when Alaskans clear up misconceptions about their state. I've lived in Tucson and Flagtaff, as well as out in the boonies near Safford/Wilcox. Arizona is a very strange place, and Tucson is definitely the big blue spot in a sea of red. Personally, I found Flagstaff much more conservative than I had expected, and didn't much like anything about it except the scenery and the weather. We called it "Poverty with a view" when I was a college student there. We lived in Mormon country out near Safford. That's yet another big aspect of Arizona's culture. The reservations are another. The Phoenix vs Tucson thing is another. The water. You name it. Weird state. And yeah, I got stuck with that stupid no alcohol until after 10am thing too. Since I shop in the morning, I was VERY annoyed.
ReplyDeletewhere i'm from, the local pub encourages those of us with irish heritage to band together, make fun of the brits, and advocate overthrow of the government when they make the owner call time. ahhh but i get it ... we're safe can't find much lighter skin than a mick ;-)
ReplyDeletenext thing you know, they'll be banning irish pubs in aryan-zona! as a former bostonian of irish decent, that will be totally unacceptable!
(though i'm of black irish decent and can tan with the best of 'em ... which made my ancestors 2nd class citizens back in the old country.)
but seriously, where do you draw the line? is the italian americans club illegal in AZ? can they no longer have a st patty's day parade in phoenix? these folks are nuts! oh wait, no, they're just racist.
When immigrants came here over 100 years ago they were FORCED to learn English or fail. They had to assimilate or fail.
ReplyDeleteIllegal immigrants today are not assimilating, because they are illegal. Illegality is not a race either, so stop comparing it to apartheid.
Lastly, for those that are so open minded and disagree with borders, do you know what Mexico has for immigration laws? YOU ARE ARRESTED IN MEXICO if you are an illegal immigrant. Lets adopt their laws.