Morality is not determined by the church you attend nor the faith you embrace. It is determined by the quality of your character and the positive impact you have on those you meet along your journey
Tuesday, July 06, 2010
Now see this is just ONE reason why I can never take people like Glenn Beck and Mitt Romney seriously. One BIG reason.
I'm no lover of organized religion. But there's no more call to make fun of special Mormon garments than there is to make fun of Jewish ones or Islamic ones. They all seem just as crazy to me, but they have their meaning to adherents.
Okay. I was raised Mormon, and honestly, the magic underwear is only one of the small absurdities. Basically Mormonism started out as something much more akin to our new age crap. For instance, Joseph Smith "translated" the golden plates by means of crystal gazing. Supposedly. Joseph Smith was actually a grifter like his dad. They had a con where they would take their crystal out to farms and tell the land owner that they could use it to locate the buried treasure on their land. The crystal already indicated that there was buried treasure. Then they collected fees for looking for the treasure. Joseph eventually hit on the idea of saying he had found the gold, but it was hammered plates containing the word of God. Better con. Longer con. Still going.
4;07 is correct, though. The Mormon BS is no thicker than the BS of, say, these people: http://www.jesuscampthemovie.com/ Frankly, having been around Mormons all my life, I can say at least most of them are decent people.
Ironically, the Mormons have also tended, in modern times, to be very moderate. In about the last twenty years, however, they've been trying to scurry under the same rock that the Evangelicals live under. Romney is still more of an old-school Mormon. But he's under a lot of pressure to abandon his moderation and go bat shit crazy with the Beck crowd.
Magic underwear, virgin births, sacred cows, Chosen People, Xenu, child brides, indicate how desperate people are to believe in something that does not exist just for the chance to "go to heaven". And if it means slaughtering, abusing, defiling and bombing the crap out of everybody else to make the point, then let the games begin!
Those who insist on chanting "god's will" from the rooftops stand out as the worst of the offenders. It is just an excuse to bring out the abomination that goes uncurbed all in the name of "religion". Absurd.
Agree with Anon@5:50 AM. Not a repub, but I always thought Mitt was a decent person. If magic underwear helps him why not. Certainly not as bad as the riff raff the public has rammed down their throat by a certain grifter.
I don't beleive in any god but I do know some Mormons. Like any belief they have their extremists. The ones I know don't wear them and if they did I wouldn't care. Least of my worries. They don't hate gay people, are really decent, give you the shirt off of their back, and I know one has a gay daughter who is not disowned.
They are really nice to me and I have discussed my non belief. They don't curse me to hell like some KJV fundies I have run across. Then don't like Glenn Beck either. I guess like anything else there is a middle ground. shrug
How is making fun of someone's religious practice different from any other example of intolerance, from teabaggers, Palin, people who tell ni--er or Polish or sexist jokes, to Glen Beck and Rush Limbaugh? You've really lowered the bar this time.
You know, griff, I'm LDS, and had a lot of respect for you. But his is offensive. You are making fun of something I hold sacred. This is not a joke. Millions of members feel the same way I do. My bishop had an obama sticker on his car. I voted for Obama. (because Palin was on the ticket). Please, remove this.
Grypen, who is sponsoring Beck's appearance in Alaska on 9/11/10? The ADN mentioned it & where it will be held,the Denali(spell?) Center, but not who's paying him.
Shame on you. I thought that you were better than this. While you (understandably) may not trust Glenn Beck and Mitt Romney, I fail to understand how this intolerant piece of youtube trash justifies that distrust. You have not only insulted all Mormons, but you have insulted me (an agnostic), who prides herself on the tolerance (and respect)of others' religious practices provided they hurt no one. The wearing of these garments and believing in their sacredness is a part of every practicing Mormon's life, not just Beck and Romney. So in essence, you have just insulted all Mormons. Again, I repeat, shame on you. You disgust me.
Believe me, I am no fan, even remotely, of Palin. Or any of the others of her ilk. But I ask a serious question: how does intolerance breed tolerance? And aren't tolerance and community more or less what we are about? I take issue with calling anyone on their religion unless the religion wants me to change or die. I would appreciate it if you would post this so that the discussion can continue. Thanks.
As some of you may know I am absolutely fascinated with religions. Their origins, their superstitions, and their rituals.
As matter of fact before Sarah Palin burst onto the scene I spent a lot more time blogging about religion then I do today.
One of my focuses has always been on the absurdity of certain religious beliefs and practices. Whether it be Scientology's belief in a galactic ruler called Xenu, who brought billions of people to earth and blew them up with hydrogen bombs, or the Jehovah's Witnesses who believe that the eschatological events predicted in Revelation began in 1914, or the Wiccan rituals which encourage members to dance around "skyclad", without clothes, to be reunited with "their natural selves".
If these beliefs inform a politician or influential person's worldview or potentially discourage them from relying on a logical thought process in their decision making, I believe it is valid to discuss it.
To me there are virtually no "sacred cows". If you embrace a religious belief or philosophy you should be not only prepared, but eager to explain it to the uninitiated and ignorant.
People had no problem exposing Sarah Palin for allowing herself to be blessed by a with hunter and for accepting that the Genesis story of creation was just as viable as evolution, so why would we not ask similar question about the religious or spiritual beliefs of others?
Gryph I agree some things just cry out to be mocked and magic knickers are one of them. I suggest that one reason Mormons are so sensitive about this is that they have been trying to pass themselves off as just another Christian denomination for some time now. Their actual beliefs put them well outside the Christian rubric. I mean, they believe that God lives on a planet called Kolob and was once a human. They're entitled to their beliefs but to think they are Christian is ridiculous. Don't get me wrong I think Christianity is also ridiculous - it's just that Mormons aren't Christian.
I don't beleive in any god but I do know some Mormons. Like any belief they have their extremists. The ones I know don't wear them and if they did I wouldn't care. Least of my worries. They don't hate gay people, are really decent, give you the shirt off of their back, and I know one has a gay daughter who is not disowned.
They are really nice to me and I have discussed my non belief. They don't curse me to hell like some KJV fundies I have run across. Then don't like Glenn Beck either. I guess like anything else there is a middle ground. shrug
8:29 AM ~~~~~~~~~~~ The Mormon Church was very much behind the Prop 8 or Prop H8 initiative in CA against gay marriage that passed by having stupid and wrong commercials, trying to scare the crap out of minorities.
I know a few and worked for one as a Jr Hi kid, but I also worked for a co where I was the only non-Mormon until I hired my own assistant. All I can say is the founder was "levitating above the bed" when he came up with the idea to start the business. He "fell back onto the bed when my(his) wife asked, "B, what are you doing?' " My much-older-than me assistant said leave this company before your career is damaged by the association.
Mitt Romney was heavily involved in the 2002 SLC Olympics: "The 2002 Olympic Winter Games bid scandal was a scandal involving allegations of bribery to obtain the 2002 Olympic Winter Games in Salt Lake City, Utah."
LDS rituals are no stranger than any others. Religions always look stranger from the outside.
One thing I always appreciated about the LDS church, they have traditionally distanced themselves from politics (with the exception of the ERA and prop 8 of course). This has served them well; they should stick to it.
I was raised LDS. I never actually wore the magic underwear, (I stopped attending when I turned 18, before I was issued mine), but having done the parent's laundry I was familiar with the magic undies. Funny, I always thought those stitches on the nipples and navel were just poorly sewn reinforcements.
I'm no lover of organized religion. But there's no more call to make fun of special Mormon garments than there is to make fun of Jewish ones or Islamic ones. They all seem just as crazy to me, but they have their meaning to adherents.
ReplyDeleteOkay. I was raised Mormon, and honestly, the magic underwear is only one of the small absurdities. Basically Mormonism started out as something much more akin to our new age crap. For instance, Joseph Smith "translated" the golden plates by means of crystal gazing. Supposedly. Joseph Smith was actually a grifter like his dad. They had a con where they would take their crystal out to farms and tell the land owner that they could use it to locate the buried treasure on their land. The crystal already indicated that there was buried treasure. Then they collected fees for looking for the treasure. Joseph eventually hit on the idea of saying he had found the gold, but it was hammered plates containing the word of God. Better con. Longer con. Still going.
ReplyDelete4;07 is correct, though. The Mormon BS is no thicker than the BS of, say, these people:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.jesuscampthemovie.com/
Frankly, having been around Mormons all my life, I can say at least most of them are decent people.
Ironically, the Mormons have also tended, in modern times, to be very moderate. In about the last twenty years, however, they've been trying to scurry under the same rock that the Evangelicals live under. Romney is still more of an old-school Mormon. But he's under a lot of pressure to abandon his moderation and go bat shit crazy with the Beck crowd.
ReplyDeleteMagic underwear, virgin births, sacred cows, Chosen People, Xenu, child brides, indicate how desperate people are to believe in something that does not exist just for the chance to "go to heaven". And if it means slaughtering, abusing, defiling and bombing the crap out of everybody else to make the point, then let the games begin!
ReplyDeleteThose who insist on chanting "god's will" from the rooftops stand out as the worst of the offenders. It is just an excuse to bring out the abomination that goes uncurbed all in the name of "religion". Absurd.
I guess that answers the "boxer or briefs" question.
ReplyDeleteAgree with Anon@5:50 AM. Not a repub, but I always thought Mitt was a decent person. If magic underwear helps him why not. Certainly not as bad as the riff raff the public has rammed down their throat by a certain grifter.
ReplyDeleteHmmm... reminds me of the moonies with their strict underwear/hygiene/etc rules from their anointed one.
ReplyDeleteAlso kind of makes me wonder if $P will eventually veer towards this - open her own religious cult...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI don't beleive in any god but I do know some Mormons. Like any belief they have their extremists. The ones I know don't wear them and if they did I wouldn't care. Least of my worries. They don't hate gay people, are really decent, give you the shirt off of their back, and I know one has a gay daughter who is not disowned.
ReplyDeleteThey are really nice to me and I have discussed my non belief. They don't curse me to hell like some KJV fundies I have run across. Then don't like Glenn Beck either. I guess like anything else there is a middle ground. shrug
Sometimes we can be prejudiced and not know it.I see no difference between a Yarmulke and magic underwear.
ReplyDeleteOne more thing. The image of Glenn Beck in any type of underwear is enough for me to heave. ;-/
ReplyDeleteHow is making fun of someone's religious practice different from any other example of intolerance, from teabaggers, Palin, people who tell ni--er or Polish or sexist jokes, to Glen Beck and Rush Limbaugh?
ReplyDeleteYou've really lowered the bar this time.
Actually, it reminds me of the top middle picture of Sarah's miraculous pregnant with Trigger.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.palindeception.blogspot.com/
You know, griff, I'm LDS, and had a lot of respect for you. But his is offensive. You are making fun of something I hold sacred. This is not a joke. Millions of members feel the same way I do. My bishop had an obama sticker on his car. I voted for Obama. (because Palin was on the ticket).
ReplyDeletePlease, remove this.
Grypen, who is sponsoring Beck's
ReplyDeleteappearance in Alaska on 9/11/10? The
ADN mentioned it & where it will be held,the Denali(spell?) Center, but
not who's paying him.
Sharon TN
Gryphen,
ReplyDeleteShame on you. I thought that you were better than this. While you (understandably) may not trust Glenn Beck and Mitt Romney, I fail to understand how this intolerant piece of youtube trash justifies that distrust. You have not only insulted all Mormons, but you have insulted me (an agnostic), who prides herself on the tolerance (and respect)of others' religious practices provided they hurt no one. The wearing of these garments and believing in their sacredness is a part of every practicing Mormon's life, not just Beck and Romney. So in essence, you have just insulted all Mormons. Again, I repeat, shame on you. You disgust me.
J. W. Morgan
Believe me, I am no fan, even remotely, of Palin. Or any of the others of her ilk.
ReplyDeleteBut I ask a serious question: how does intolerance breed tolerance?
And aren't tolerance and community more or less what we are about?
I take issue with calling anyone on their religion unless the religion wants me to change or die.
I would appreciate it if you would post this so that the discussion can continue.
Thanks.
Hmmmm . . . . .
ReplyDeletehttp://flyinureye.wordpress.com/2010/07/06/when-fascism-comes-to-america/
Do they come in black? I thought not.
ReplyDeleteAs some of you may know I am absolutely fascinated with religions. Their origins, their superstitions, and their rituals.
ReplyDeleteAs matter of fact before Sarah Palin burst onto the scene I spent a lot more time blogging about religion then I do today.
One of my focuses has always been on the absurdity of certain religious beliefs and practices. Whether it be Scientology's belief in a galactic ruler called Xenu, who brought billions of people to earth and blew them up with hydrogen bombs, or the Jehovah's Witnesses who believe that the eschatological events predicted in Revelation began in 1914, or the Wiccan rituals which encourage members to dance around "skyclad", without clothes, to be reunited with "their natural selves".
If these beliefs inform a politician or influential person's worldview or potentially discourage them from relying on a logical thought process in their decision making, I believe it is valid to discuss it.
To me there are virtually no "sacred cows". If you embrace a religious belief or philosophy you should be not only prepared, but eager to explain it to the uninitiated and ignorant.
People had no problem exposing Sarah Palin for allowing herself to be blessed by a with hunter and for accepting that the Genesis story of creation was just as viable as evolution, so why would we not ask similar question about the religious or spiritual beliefs of others?
FYI. Harry Ried wears 'magic underwear'.
ReplyDeleteI guess he's on Griff's list now too.
Anonymous @9:40 AM
ReplyDeleteEven though I am an ex-mormon, I agree with you 100%.
Shame on you,Griff!!
"or the Wiccan rituals which encourage members to dance around "skyclad", without clothes, to be reunited with "their natural selves".
ReplyDeleteAs A Wiccan, I take issue with your broad inference here. As a matter of fact, a very small fraction of Wiccans go 'skyclad'. Most do not.
Thank you for letting me take the time to correct this fallacy.
I have actually observed and briefly participated in a "skyclad" celebration with a few nubile Wiccans. One of my fonder memories of the early 80's.
ReplyDeleteGryph I agree some things just cry out to be mocked and magic knickers are one of them. I suggest that one reason Mormons are so sensitive about this is that they have been trying to pass themselves off as just another Christian denomination for some time now. Their actual beliefs put them well outside the Christian rubric. I mean, they believe that God lives on a planet called Kolob and was once a human. They're entitled to their beliefs but to think they are Christian is ridiculous. Don't get me wrong I think Christianity is also ridiculous - it's just that Mormons aren't Christian.
ReplyDeleteBlogger FencePaylin said...
ReplyDeleteI don't beleive in any god but I do know some Mormons. Like any belief they have their extremists. The ones I know don't wear them and if they did I wouldn't care. Least of my worries. They don't hate gay people, are really decent, give you the shirt off of their back, and I know one has a gay daughter who is not disowned.
They are really nice to me and I have discussed my non belief. They don't curse me to hell like some KJV fundies I have run across. Then don't like Glenn Beck either. I guess like anything else there is a middle ground. shrug
8:29 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~
The Mormon Church was very much behind the Prop 8 or Prop H8 initiative in CA against gay marriage that passed by having stupid and wrong commercials, trying to scare the crap out of minorities.
I know a few and worked for one as a Jr Hi kid, but I also worked for a co where I was the only non-Mormon until I hired my own assistant. All I can say is the founder was "levitating above the bed" when he came up with the idea to start the business. He "fell back onto the bed when my(his) wife asked, "B, what are you doing?' " My much-older-than me assistant said leave this company before your career is damaged by the association.
Mitt Romney was heavily involved in the 2002 SLC Olympics:
"The 2002 Olympic Winter Games bid scandal was a scandal involving allegations of bribery to obtain the 2002 Olympic Winter Games in Salt Lake City, Utah."
They aren't perfect.
LDS rituals are no stranger than any others. Religions always look stranger from the outside.
ReplyDeleteOne thing I always appreciated about the LDS church, they have traditionally distanced themselves from politics (with the exception of the ERA and prop 8 of course). This has served them well; they should stick to it.
I was raised LDS. I never actually wore the magic underwear, (I stopped attending when I turned 18, before I was issued mine), but having done the parent's laundry I was familiar with the magic undies. Funny, I always thought those stitches on the nipples and navel were just poorly sewn reinforcements.