As for me I have read the Bible all the way through twice, the Tao Te Ching several times, more philosophy books and books on religion than I could possibly count, about a third of the Book of Mormon, about a fourth of the Qaran, and some book a Hare Krishna once gave me after I gave him some money for lunch back in the 1970's.
I am not so much bragging as simply explaining that I had a lot of spare time to read when I was younger.
I don't go to a church (except for weddings and special occasions). I find it astounding that some of my friends who go every Sunday haven't read the Bible, and I know more about scripture than they do... !! So, I can agree with this tweet; some Christians haven't read the "terms and agreement"... For some, it's family tradition, social, or a crutch- some people need to be involved in a church life, or they would be lost.
ReplyDeleteGryphen. Me too. I've read all those books too, and many more- too numerous to name. "The Buddha Within", by Lama Surya Das, is well written. And I highly recommend "Living in Sin" by Bishop John Spong- he uses scripture and science to make the case for homosexuality, living together without marriage... etc.
ReplyDeleteif you ever get "saved" Gryphen, you will be the sort of "Christian" that actually makes a difference in people's lives
ReplyDeletenot the kind that posts biblical hallelujah's on their Facebook page and then the next post is something derogatory (believe it or not i'm not talking about S.P. here)
one more religious thought but hey this is a religious-y post :D ...
ReplyDeleteIf you haven't heard of him before.. read a little about Keith Green
(NOT the mess his wife Melody has made- she's a nut) but before he died
A musician that spent the better part of his youth rubbing shoulders with the gurus in the music world (bob dylan, joni mitchell, ect) .. all good but nothing clicked for him
then.. and then he died in horrible accident taking 2 of his tiny children with him
I've been to a handful of different churches and everyone I met had no interest in his music.. if the church "today" rejects someone it makes me like them even more :D
Well, NOT reading it used to be a good thing, believe it or not.
ReplyDeleteA few decades ago, most of us belonged to a church, but weren't so "owned" by them the way people are now. Now they tell you how to vote, who to love, what kind of sex to have, whether to use birth control, which neighbor to hate, etc.
It was possible to be Catholic, for example, and receive the benefits of the culture, without getting so nuts about it. My family drank, they gambled, they slipped up in sin occasionally and then went to confession and vented it and got forgiveness. We weren't perfect and didn't expect anyone else to be. The worship itself was spread around, meaning, you had the father, son and holy ghost. You could pray to Mary, or to the saints like Teresa. We used to laugh at the strict Jesus-obsessed Protestants next door to us, who never cursed and didn't let their daughters date.
Now? Even the young kids nowadays are all talking about "Jesus" and being saved and all that. Tebow puts crosses on his head in football games. My brothers used to laugh at guys like that growing up. Palin talks about "prayer warriors." Warriors? My family didn't want to be warriors on Sunday, they wanted to hear the sermon then get back home in time for the football game, and get the lasagna in the oven.
And they expect everyone else to click "I agree" too, even if they aren't using that particular software.
ReplyDeleteSad that you keep this ignorant garbage up, Gryphen.
ReplyDeleteI'll admit that I haven't read the entire Bible, but I can safely say I'm at least a little knowledgeable about it from when I used to be a Christian. Overall, I'd say I read about 2/3s of it, with more important chapters (like the Gospels) several times over.
ReplyDeleteReading that book is what made me realize that I couldn't just "click agree". The Old Testament god is a major jerk. Jesus is a pretty decent guy with a good message, but he's far from perfect.
Anon @ 5:31, you have to back up your claim that Gryphen is posting ignorant garbage - you do your faith no justice by not defending why your knowledge and faith is better - if not superior to us IM'ers.
ReplyDeleteOr is that just Sarah, hit and run and don't make a case?
I agree. It is astonishing the number of christians that hear their pastor read a scripture or two, and think they have "studied" the bible.
ReplyDelete"Have you read the bible, every word from the first page to the last?" is mostly answered "No".
I asked this question of my mom once, and she said "I started to, but then it made me mad and I stopped."
I'm an atheist, but have read the Bible twice--once because I was going through a loss of faith in jr. high and wanted to read the philosophies of various religions and once as literature.
ReplyDeleteI had a wonderful hippy neighbor that had a Masters in World Religions and was kind to a clueless adolescent. And what did I get out of the various books, countless discussions and heartrending questioning? We are all imperfect and are always looking for the answers. Also--most of the books were beautiful as literature.
I chose to look for the answers without the dogma.
Some choose the dogma, twist it for their own reasons and have basically made me fear organized religion.
How did a bunch of fallible men write an infallible book?
ReplyDeleteTo Anonymous @2:46. Oh yeah. Except it was get to the beer, the Cardinals game, and Grandma's roast beef dinner [Irish here].
ReplyDelete'Catholic' then encompassed a huge range of spiritual practice that might wax or wane over time. There was room, and forgiveness, for everyone. No more.
I didn't read any of the books Gryphen listed, don't see the need.
I am a Christian and have also read through the entire Bible twice (including all of the begats). To me, you can't truly understand the religion if you haven't read all of it. It has given me a deeper understanding of the true roots of Christianity, not the crap that is done in Jesus' name today.
ReplyDeleteI am not as well read as you are on other religions, but I have sampled here and there. It is very interesting - religion is our reflection on how we interpret the world.
While I am a Christian, I do not try to convert anyone. I have found that it is sufficient ministry to simply act as a kind person and try to reflect the values that Christ reflected (that is very difficult!). I have also found that by being open about my faith, and by not trying to convert others, I have helped change some people's views of Christians, which have been very negative.
It makes me sad that Christians turn others away by their attitudes and behaviors - just know that not all of us are like this, and many true Christians are repelled by the attitudes and behaviors of people like Scarah.
Question for the group:
ReplyDeleteI am told the Dead Sea Scrolls support the notion that the Bible is the literal Word of God. Apparently the Scrolls are a third-party verification that the Bible is accurate.
At this point in my life, I do not have the luxury of time to read it all myself.
Thoughts?
I don't see a big difference in attitude between this and "muslims are terrorists." This kind of stuff is a disservice. Self-identified Christians are no more easily defined than "Muslims" or "jews" or any other group.
ReplyDeleteThere are SOME Christians for whom I thnk this is true. There are many self-identified Christians for whom this is not true. And I know many ministers who do not seek to have the church members follow this.
ommama sounds like I'd feel just as home at your irish grandma's house with the roast beef as I would be at my italian grandma's with the meatballs and lasagna. And you're right, there seemed room at the table for everyone, just plop down another plate and get the flowered chair from the kitchen and add it to the end of the dining room table.
ReplyDeleteNot everything was taken quite as seriously as it is now....religion, politics, all of it.
You know, I don't think people nowadays understand what liquor is for...lol, every culture has it (Spanish Chianti, German beer, Irish Whisky, Russian vodka, Italian red wine, etc). It's so you can get to know your neighbors.
(All Sarah had to do was bring over a bottle next door to Joe, eh? Maybe the ice queen would loosen up a bit.)
Many Christians positively avoid the Old Testament, which if you open to almost any page is upsetting, but I am indeed surprised that a lot of Christians are quite unfamiliar with the New Testament as well, which is actually quite readable. Isn't it funny that someone believes that the very GOD who created the universe has written a book and yet they never bother to read it?
ReplyDeleteI know why they don't. It is tedious, boring, and disheartening, confusing and contradictory.
I've tried to read the Koran. It's disheartening and scattered.
I've read quite a good deal of it, both old and new testament.
ReplyDeleteI consider the bible similar to the Constitution. Open to interpretation. I take it in context, consider the sources (I.E. not the direct word of God taken by dictation but rather something written by quite a few different authors, all with their own agendas.)
I don't take either documents as rigid or absolute. Rather a guideline and inspiration to do the right thing.