Saturday, February 12, 2011

Kentucky Senate approves law to teach the Bible in public school. Hmm a religious book taught in public school, what could go wrong?

From the Huffington Post:

In Kentucky, the Senate has approved new legislation allowing the Christian Bible to be studied in public school. It has been submitted for House review.

Kentucky Sen. Joe Bowen told WLKY that he believes biblical rhetoric has played a huge role in the development of the modern world.

"No doubt about it, the most important book ever written and obviously, it's had so much influence on our society and all of Western civilization."



Now I am sure that all of you automatically assume I would be against this law, but you would be incorrect.

In fact I am completely in favor of introducing a class that REALLY examines the origin, politics, and disagreements over content, that occurred during the writing of the original Greek manuscripts that make up the new testament.  As well as how its various translations have modified its content into what we now recognize as the "Word of God."

After all I took a class in comparative religious studies while I was in college and it completely altered my view of religion. Of course it also made it completely impossible to EVER be a religous person myself. But hey, that is always the risk of learning TOO much about religion, or their holy books.

In fact let me make a suggestion for a book that would be extremely eye opening for some of these young students. It is one of my favorites called "Who Wrote the Bible?"

Here is a review:

No matter how strongly you believe the Old Testament to be the word of God, there is no denying that the hand of man wrote it. In this book Richard Elliot Friedman sets out to see if he can identify specifically which hand. Now this may seem futile and even sacrilegious depending on your viewpoint but on closer examination of the nature of the books creation shows that it may not be such an impossible task. As for the argument of sacrilege, might not knowing the author even strengthen the character of the book, especially if it turns out that a well respected and easily recognisable name is actually responsible? I will say as part of this introduction that the although this book is penned from a historical and scholarly viewpoint, it is at no point trying to impose any religious ideas, beyond those which deal with the job at hand. Friedman retains a healthy respect for his subject at all times as you would expect for such a well respected writer, a writer who also happens to be a Professor of Hebrew and Comparative Religion. If anyone is best armed to undertake such a quest to find the Old Testament author, a task that needs to combine sensitivity with superior scholarship, it is Richard Elliot Friedman.


There are certain traditions in place regarding various authors, Moses, Jeremiah and David are all supposed to have had a hand in the penning of certain parts, but are these assumptions correct. Like all good authors Friedman sets these assumptions aside and starts from scratch examining firstly the world that created the book and importantly the reasons why these various oral teachings were assembled in one place in the first place. With an understanding of the events of the ancient Middle East the reasons for its creation and evolution can be seen more clearly. A lot of store is put by the specific viewpoint that a particular piece of writing shows. If a story makes detailed reference to particular religious rituals or the inner workings of the temple, as some clearly do, then it follows that the author was probably a priest. Similar lines of thought can be upheld for tales more militarily or agricultural based themes. With this in mind it is possible to argue for a number of different authors to the stories. Similarly an understanding of the political set up of the area is important. The lands of the Hebrews was based on twelve tribal groups aligned with one of two kingdoms, Israel and Judah and the allegiances of the writer also has a bearing on the way many tales seem to have been written. There is also a visible evolution of the stories over time, as you would expect from texts rewritten through out successive generations, the changing mindsets, political considerations and important events all playing their part in this.

And that is just ONE possible textbook that could be used to help these students to better understand the book that has had such an impact on our modern world. Just imagine how well versed these young people would be in exactly how the Bible came to be if they could read this book, as well as other scholarly works on the creation of this most inspiring book?

Or is that NOT what Sen. Joe Bowen and the Christian population of Kentucky who are pushing for this law have in mind?  Could it in fact be less about "education." and more about "indoctrination?"

Well this IS Kentucky we are talking about so I think you can decide that for yourself.

48 comments:

  1. Anonymous2:27 AM

    Politico is saying Palin has hired a chief of staff, Mike Glassner?

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0211/49390.html

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  2. Anonymous2:51 AM

    Good grief. I was born and raised in Kentucky. Some of my ancestors came through Cumberland Gap with Daniel Boone. I love Kentucky with all my heart. I attended her schools as a child, and her Universities as a young adult. I received an outstanding education that has served me well as an adult.

    What Kentucky is going through is similar to what other states are dealing with now in their Legislatures. The Representative's districts are maybe two or three counties. Small.

    If you know history, you will remember that Kentucky was not always this Republican. Just as other states, Kentucky was once a solidly Democratic majority. The drift to the other side of the aisle began in the 1980's. Many states saw this happen.

    Yes, the proposed law is just stupid. It really is. Bowen is an Evangelical crusader with a very narrow mission, and that is wrong. The district he represents is now very Evangelical, mixed with very Liberal Christians, and members of other Belief systems. But, there are more Republicans than Democrats in his district.

    I am hoping this bill does not make it out of the Senate. It may not. If it does, I believe it will be struck down in litigation.

    I am writing this because of the last bit of your post.

    Well this IS Kentucky we are talking about so I think you can decide that for yourself.

    Pot, meet kettle. That kind of "journalistic" swipe is so Palin. Thank you.

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  3. Anonymous3:21 AM

    I don't want a public school to start teaching kids about religion as I feel they would screw it up or insert a "right religion" instead of all religions.

    There is no one way to believe.

    Hell they cannot even teach basic sex ed without screwing the pouch.
    My 11 year old was not told about the a lot of things that I TOLD HER. My 13 yr old was not told about condoms-I am sorry but in this day and age EVERY kid should know HOW to use one. Waiting is fine but hormones can supersede that thought.

    Yes, it doesn't shock me that this is the south or even the middle America (Sarah's real America?)pushing this crap.

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  4. Egad, my life has come full circle in just 6 decades. Say it ain't so!

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  5. Anonymous3:37 AM

    I have this excellent book in my personal library, and am always on the look out to pick up a used copy at thrift stores to give out as a gift.

    Richard Friedman makes his points in a clear, logical manner and it was a joy to read.

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  6. Ted Powell3:56 AM

    I second the recommendation of "Who Wrote the Bible?" I find it amusing that on the linked review page, "a lot of scholarly information to be taken in" is listed under "Cons"! That was what I bought the book for.

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  7. Anonymous4:21 AM

    Funny Gryph, I took a comparative religion class in a Catholic High School!! In retrospect it was really a bashing of all other religions and indoctrination into why Catholicism is THE BEST!! It took a few more years for me to escape lol.....
    I'm OK with them teaching the bible, as long as they do it truthfully like you stated, including the Agnostic chapters, and also too as long as they teach the Koran, the Torah and whatever books other religions rely on to control their congregations!

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  8. Anonymous4:34 AM

    In the 90's when I was in high school, we had a class about the Bible in my Long Island school...but it was about the Bible as literature and focused on the literary references that came from it.

    I think this is the only way the Bible is relevant in public education.

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  9. Anonymous4:46 AM

    Wouldn't that be fabulous if they were open to unbiased texts? Alas - I can't imagine that to be the case. What is happening to my country??

    T

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  10. I just found out from a friend's high school kid that her Epic Traditions teacher told her class that it's important to learn about myths from around the world "because they're based on Christianity," (wha??) and, the usual, that our founders wanted the U.S. to be a Christian nation. AAAAA!!!! Looking into this.

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  11. Anonymous4:55 AM

    You nailed this issue!

    Well done, Gryphen, well done and with such style and humor as well.

    You are simply one of the best!

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  12. The only problem with this is that they WON'T use it as a comparative religion class would. They'll use it as the basis of a religion class and won't give equal time to other religions. I'm Wiccan and I know the hissy fit they'd throw if I tried to introduce a Wicca class. I have a son in preschool. I considered sending him to a school in KY (We live across the river in WV - as a matter of fact, we go to KY to the grocery store and my husband works in KY). My sons are being raised in my faith, yet if they tried to express that around here they would get harassed and treated poorly, not just by students but by teachers as well.

    Homeschooling is looking better and better.

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  13. if the boible were taught like this, g, i would say go for it. but i would also add that classical greek literature and philosophy ought to be taught since it is more off an influence on or democracy than the bible even. besides, every kid should be blessed with homer's image of "the wine dark sea." gets me every time.

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  14. oh, and i meant to add that i went to catholic school for 13 years(!)and only studied the actual bible when i went to a jesuit college for my freshman year, and then we studied it as an historical document (i love those jesuits). there was plenty of indoctrination, in grammar and high school, but that was to be expected. i did have some church history in high school in an honors course and the teacher was honest about some of the awful things done in the name of christ. he was an ex-jesuit as well.

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  15. angela5:21 AM

    I took the The Bible as Literature in the 70s in the tenth grade. Our parents had to sign a consent form for us to even take the class. It specifically said no doctrine would be taught or discussed. And it wasn't.

    That class helped make me the atheist I am today . . . . and a voracious reader.

    I pity Kentucky if this idiocy continues.

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  16. Olivia5:32 AM

    Yeah well, I guess we wouldn't want any kind of Sharia law creeping in, would we. If all these attempts to Christianize the state and federal governments succeed, then the various religions will be warring against each other. It won't be Muslim vs Christian vs Jewish, It will be Baptists, vs Catholics vs Lutherans vs Mormons vs Methodists, etc. Agnosticism and Atheism will look like the only sane beliefs. Many think that last statement is true now.

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  17. Anonymous5:39 AM

    and suing and getting that teacher fired, I hope ckennedy.

    document, document, document and file it with your state's aclu.

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  18. Anonymous5:41 AM

    Go for it SaPPHire. Public school would be appealing if I were looking for a full time job fighting their bs. As it is, it takes less time to hs.

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  19. Anonymous5:42 AM

    Gryphen, this post (and others where you explain your enmity against religion) does not seem to me to be within the scope of your mission statement.It's also shallow and one-sided.

    I come here (a lot!) for Palin news and political comment, as I believe most do. It's not in support of your anti-religious views.

    I know, I know, you'll say STFU and write your own blog, but I'm guessing I speak for a lot of your readers.

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  20. Anonymous5:51 AM

    I graduated high in 1981 from Dallas suburb. There was a class called "The Bible as Literature". I didn't take it. I don't know much about it.

    But there's been a public school class on the Bible before.

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  21. Anonymous 5:42, it is not anti-religious to ask that a certain religion's holy book not be used as a textbook in public schools.

    I have to believe that if we were talking about the Jewish Talmud, or the Islamic Koran, the Hindu Veda, or Five Classics of Confucianism we would be on the same page.

    People only seem to get sensitive about religious intolerance when there is resistance to allowing THEIR religion to be inflicted on other people. Isn't it odd how that works?

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  22. Gryph you forget that KY (funny that would be its abbreviation) is the state that also gives us the infamous creationism museum and soon also to host the Noahs Ark theme park. Do you really believe that they would allow an honest and critical debate on the bible?

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  23. Anonymous6:59 AM

    While I was in High School in the late 80's, I took a class called World Religions taught from the perspective of history rather than literature. I loved this class. We learned about the history, basic tenets and belief systems of ancient and contemporary religions from around the world. No proselytizing allowed. Everything from the Vikings, Greeks, Native Americans to Christianity, Hindus and Taoist. Very enlightening to compare and contrast "religious" beliefs. If this type of class was taught, I would encourage anyone to take this class, but then again I am a bit of a history geek. I have a very bad feeling about this. I fear it will not end well.

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  24. Anonymous7:17 AM

    Thanks for bringing this up from that other site. I don't click there anymore.

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  25. Anonymous7:19 AM

    Are they going to leave in all the juicy R-rated bits when they teach the 'Good Book' in their classes?
    Plus the Begats alone would make your eyes roll into your head.
    M from MD

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  26. Anonymous7:32 AM

    There's reason #87 for homeschooling my daughter.

    AmandainKY

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  27. Anonymous7:52 AM

    Sounds to me like Kentucky wants to use the Bible for "indoctrination". It would be great, if it were for comparative study and analysis. You know that is not the intention.

    After a lifetime of comparative religious studies,(I studied or attended, literally, everything!). I think "religion" is a personal journey. I have my own "religion", that is based more on the universal spiritual teachings of Morihei Ueshiba, the founder of Aikido (The Art of Peace).

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  28. Anonymous8:22 AM

    I wonder if it would be an elective or mandatory course, and if the student would fail if his/her interpretation of the bible isn't the same as the teacher's?

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  29. Anonymous8:31 AM

    5:42 doesn't speak for me.

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  30. Anonymous8:53 AM

    I can just imagine the fights that will erupt in the classroom and the ostracism that would occur when a student disagrees with the majority.

    It's a sucky idea to have it in today's classroom when the kids are not even graduating HS. Did you know Wasilla is known as the drop out capitol? I know this is Kentucky that approved the law, but it sets precedent. I hope someone challenges it. Public schools have become the training ground for future soldiers.

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  31. Chenagrrl9:14 AM

    Just wait until the Muslim groups in Kentucky want a law demanding that public school students study the Koran, and the Jewish groups demand study of the Torah.

    Why we could just let math and sciences go and start madrassas.

    So this means that parents who home-school can now substitute world history with bible study, koran study, torah study.

    In 20 years, our economy will be on the level with the tribal lands that separate Pakistan and Afghanistan.

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  32. Wasilla High has a class "Bible as Literature". I have no clue what the actual curriculum is, or how it's taught because my kid would never take it, but it IS taught.

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  33. Anonymous9:40 AM

    That book sounds like a good one. I'll have to pick it up. I'd like to see the works of Bart Ehrman be part of the curriculum too. Bet that would get the fundies going. :)

    http://www.bartdehrman.com

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  34. Anonymous9:50 AM

    I agree Gryphen, the Bible we now claim is extremely un-authentic.

    It, in its hundreds of manifestations, is at best a cut and paste job.

    My problem with accepting it as literal, is that much of the old testament is obviously myth, and it is written from only one vantage point.

    It is like the blind men and the elephant. None of them is wrong in their interpretation but all of them are wrong in their interpretation. And even combining their interpretations they still are not "seeing" the entirety of the elephant and what its role in the cosmos is.

    My other major problem is that no translation is accurate, ever. Short statements are but not long statements and certainly not philosophical ones.

    Language is just too idiomatic, and too emotional and reliant on creating mental images and electing emotional responses.
    It also is extremely regional and meanings change rapidly over time.

    Also too, and most important we do not have first hand witness accounts (we know how diverse those can be). Possibly we have some near originals of Paul's letters but the words we have are his interpretations of his new version of his Jewish faith and often are not in complete concert with the words of the Gospels.

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  35. Anonymous9:50 AM

    Gryphen,

    While it is worthy to identify problems, I often don't hear solutions. However, today there is an article posted on MSN that I think your audience might find worthwhile.

    I would love to see you post an article directing people to her book and perhaps do a little research into others like it. I read a History of the Bible by Asimov that was very enlightening...exposes many assumptions people have that the Bible and "its events" are the genesis of everything.

    The article below exposes a startling concept, apparently a number of biblical passages that we have been taught demonize gays, actually say "sex with angels" is a "the greatest sin"...so where does that leave us with the angel who visited the virgin Mary?

    The link is http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/02/09/my-take-the-bible%E2%80%99s-surprisingly-mixed-messages-on-sexuality/

    eSKaeP

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  36. Anonymous9:55 AM

    Sorry, the article was via CNN...which is clear in the link.

    eSKaeP

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  37. Anonymous10:19 AM

    Wasilla? Wherever they teach Bible, they must also teach Koran, Talmud, Confucius, etc.
    Good! It opens it all up, doesn't it!

    Wasilla parents, sounds like it's time to formally request the other Holy Books be incorporated.
    It's all just good-quality literature authored by spiritually-inspired holy people. Right?

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  38. Anonymous11:08 AM

    Just prior to marrying my husband, I was taking "instruction" in his Episcopalian faith. We were late to the first class, so I missed how the Anglican church came to be. No biggie, I'm a serious history buff.

    So when the end of the class came and the priest asked some review questions, I immediately launched into the entire saga of how Henry wanted to dump Catherine of Aragon because 1) she hadn't given him a son and 2) Anne Boleyn was already knocked up with what was promised to be a son (not), but Catherine was related to the Pope, so the only thing Henry could do to divorce her was to kick out the Catholic Church and make himself the head of the new Anglican church, and get his friend, the Archbishop of Canterbury to grant the divorce.

    Stunned silence. Apparently that is not the version taught in the "instruction." Subsequently, I was asked not to come back.

    Ah, well, not the first church I'd been kicked out of for asking questions...

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  39. Anonymous11:14 AM

    Our Youth Pastor wouldn't let us read the Song of Solomon. So of course, it was our go-to book when it came time to recite the weekly memorized verse.

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  40. Anonymous11:24 AM

    There's no problem teaching the Bible as literature. It ain't the teaching, but the way the teacher assesses the student's mastery of the material (i.e., calculates their grade).

    You can expect that students should memorize key characters, events and themes in the Bible (or any religious text). What you cannot do is tell them what they should believe, nor mark them down if they express a difference to that belief.

    Take the idea of trans-substatiation for example. What if this were the multiple choice question?:

    During the ceremony of communion, the items consumed during the rite:
    a) turn into the blood and body of Jesus Christ
    b) turn into bread and wine
    c) are symbolic of Jesus' sacrifice on the cross
    d) taste really bad

    Is there really one right answer here? And could not the students argue that there is more than one right answer? Yes, because a lot of religion is opinion. And we (as teachers) really should not be testing 'opinion'.

    I say the same about evolution. The teachers are teaching the theory. What's the big deal? The question on the test is about the current state of the understanding of the mechanisms by which the theory works, not whether the student personally believes it or not.

    Marvin M

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  41. Ted Powell12:19 PM

    Anonymous 5:42 AM wrote: Gryphen, this post … does not seem to me to be within the scope of your mission statement.

    Well, let's see. Scrolling up to the top of the page (any page on the blog) we find:

    This blog is dedicated to finding the truth, exposing the lies, and holding our politicians and leaders accountable when they fall far short of the promises that they have made to both my fellow Alaskans and the American people.

    I looked around to see whether I could find something more mission statement–y than "This blog is dedicated to…" but in vain. I followed the "View my complete profile" link. Not there, either. Please enlighten us.

    It's also shallow and one-sided. An inappropriate criticism, I suggest, on a blog that allows comments, pro, con, and orthogonal. How about doing your part, by contributing commentary that addresses the (perceived) missing depths, and missing sides? I believe the expression goes something like, light a candle, rather than cursing the dark?

    I come here (a lot!)… How can we tell, when you won't even make the effort to choose a pseudonym? Perhaps you haven't noticed, but all that's required is a name, no email address.

    I'm guessing I speak for a lot of your readers. Based on what? Besides projection, that is.

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  42. Anonymous1:59 PM

    My brother who is otherwise a very intelligent person is one of those Christian martyrs who whines year after year about how the poor majority religion is picked on by the minority religions.

    He thinks government has banned prayer in school and has for about 2 decades. I repeatedly have asked him whose prayershould be used, and of course he can't answer.
    Of course it should be a prayer acceptable to Christians, but he never addresses what if a given prayer is not acceptable to some other religion?
    What if a non Christian prayer is not acceptable to a Christian, even if it just one Christian?

    Lets face it Christians can't agree among themselves about how to read and interpret the Bible, so these classes are going to offend somebody and the law suits will begin.

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  43. Ignia2:37 PM

    Well... Regardless of what the legislature of Kentucky may think, it's not just going to be the atheists, non-Christians, or those who believe strongly in the the Constitution who end up hating this.

    No matter what they teach about the bible, there will be parents who hate it. This will be THE most disputed course EVER taught.

    The Evangelicals will be upset by interpretations. The Catholics will be upset by certain statements. The mormons will be upset by their book being left out, or the rest of the religions will be upset by the Book of Mormon being included.

    Other religions will be (rightfully) upset because their books are not taught in the schools, such as Wiccans and Muslims and Buddhists, and Athiests will be upset because of the very mention of "God."

    They are catering to the Christians at the moment, but they fail to realize that every Christian who supports this bill now will absolutely HATE it when they realize it is not THEIR brand of Christianity taught in school.

    I wish them luck.... (snicker)

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  44. Anonymous2:53 PM

    Anonymous said...
    I wonder if it would be an elective or mandatory course, and if the student would fail if his/her interpretation of the bible isn't the same as the teacher's?
    8:22 AM

    I wonder which version of the Bible they will use. With any luck the squabble over translations will end the whole thing.

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  45. Anonymous3:21 PM

    As to the discussion of following the mission statement.

    One, this is not a 5013c. The blog doesn't need a mission statement.

    I know they are all the rage these days but they are mostly BS anyway and largely ignored.

    Think of this entry not so much as shedding light on and allowing enlightenment of.

    Gryphen has thrown us a bone and we are gnawing away at it to get to the nourishment, if there is any, out of it to share with other commenters.

    Thinking about and engaging in civil discussion of complex issue broadens the mind of any one who allows themselves to listen with an open mind, we can be enlightened.

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  46. onething6:23 PM

    Gryphen I have an open copy of that book on my desk right now. I agree, it is one of the best and clearest to dispel the notion that God is the author of the Old Testament and to prove it had multiple authors who disagreed with one another.

    It is true that a glancing familiarity with the major themes of the Bible, mostly the Old Testament, is probably a good idea in order to be a well educated person.

    But I don't think that's what they have in mind and if not it is unconstitutional, period.

    The exact parallels between fundie Moslems and fundie Christians never ceases to amaze me.

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  47. onething6:46 PM

    Said someone,

    "The article below exposes a startling concept, apparently a number of biblical passages that we have been taught demonize gays, actually say "sex with angels" is a "the greatest sin"...so where does that leave us with the angel who visited the virgin Mary?"

    That is very interesting! The Sumerian legends (Abraham was a Sumerian and brought its legends with him, their Flood story matches the one in Genesis) it says that some of the 'gods' rebelled and 200 of them took human women as wives, and were punished for it. Miscegenation I guess.

    And the Bible says that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, and took wives of them, and that [their offspring] were the great men of renown. But it seems that right after that we go into the flood... so NOT okay.

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  48. Anonymous11:45 AM

    All I can say is "holy crap."

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