It appears that Joe may have been given a peek at future strips, as he appears completely at ease with the similarities between this strip and what happened with the Bailey book.
Courtesy of Joe's blog:
Hedley is the Fox News reporter who was stalking me last summer at Lake Lucille.
If he ever starts tweeting the juicy stuff, I’m screwed.
Nobody will ever buy my book. But surely he couldn’t do that without an okay from his boss.
And because his boss is my old friend Roger Ailes, that could never happen.
Could it?
Pre-emptive damage control? Fanning the flames of controversy to drum up interest? Knowing Joe I would not be surprised if it was a little of both.
Clearly Joe is inviting people to talk about his book and the controversy surrounding the release of the Bailey manuscript. However since he has closed the comments on his blog, he has not provided a forum for that conversation to take place.
Now I know that many of you have strong feelings about all of this drama concerning Joe and Frank's books, and I will endeavor to give you all some leeway here to discuss those feelings. However I am going to warn you that I might reject a comment that just seems overly insulting or designed simply to turn people against each other.
(Comic courtesy of Doonesbury.com.)
And Jesse, if you get no comments at all, will Joe be unhappy?
ReplyDeleteI am done with Joe. Done.
ReplyDelete(Polite enough for ya?)
Well, many of us have been talking about Joe and his friendship with Roger Ailes; it looks as if Joe just like Sarah reads your blog and feels the need to do something about it while all the time spouting that no one reads the blogs.
ReplyDeleteJust my opinion!
Honestly... I wish someone could just write a (nonjudgmental) summary of all this for those of us who are not following. The comments re: Ailes being JM's best bud? Huh? Who is this Fox reporter and what does he have to do with leaking the Bailey manuscript. Yes, I realize I could spend hours scouring multiple blogs and comments--trying to piece the story together amidst the vitriol, but I certainly don't have time/inclination to do so. But, it is annoying--like the big inside joke that denotes the "cool" kids from the "others"......
ReplyDeleteHonestly, I think Joe was correct in saying that no book is going to change people's minds about a politician. Once a mind is made up in politics, it typically doesn't change. Americans refuse to let politicians evolve as humans. I've observed this since middle school (almost 25 years ago.)
ReplyDeleteTruth be told, there's nothing wrong with most GOP candidates. Romney gave a great jobs speech recently, Cain is a tried and true businessman, Huckabee is the most honest politician we have (not saying he doesn't have human faults though).
Truth be told, Obama can do no wrong in liberals eyes. He can do no right in conservatives eyes.
We need a middle grounder, someone who wasn't selected for politics based on superficial factors. Obama was/is not that person, Palin is not that person.
As long as special interest continue getting their people elected, this country WILL continue to be polarized. The dems know this. The GOP ignore this.
Let's find a good, middle ground candidate and boot the fray out the door.
Kinda looks like when ol' RogerBoy realized Sarah was a liability he mighta decided to use ol' JoeBoy to get rid of Sarah the 'clean' way....
ReplyDeleteIt's all business.....whereas we are here to try to save our country from the likes of a Sarah Palin in our White house. That's ok though....everyone is welcome to their own devices, their own desires, and their own fun. We have some fun here too!
ReplyDeleteHow diabolically clever. Some juicy bits from Joe's book will be "leaked" as this comic strip is being run, thus stirring up interest in the book while at the same time providing Joe with a defense when he gets sued for what he did to AKM. He can say, See, I leaked some bits of my book deliberately and it helped my sales, so how can they say what I did to them hurt their sales?
ReplyDeleteI've seen lots of people commenting here and elsewhere who willfully refuse to understand the serious damage he deliberately inflicted on his rivals. Believe me, there is a HUGE difference between this stunt and what he did to AKM and Co.
I'll be good and I won't call Joe names. He's clever, all right. Sarah with a brain.
Actually, saying someone is as nasty and dirty as Sarah is probably the biggest insult I can come up with.
It doesn't matter if Joe is a talented writer, he cheated in order to make his book more profitable.
ReplyDeleteSo now I don't care about Joe.
CO almost Native
What I don't understand is, you complain and bitch about people who continue to like Sarah and remain her friends, and you continue to blast Ailes et al for their actions. Yet you basically ignore Joe's friendship with Ailes, a friendship that goes beyond politics.
ReplyDeleteIt's a double standard that stinks. It's like you're ONLY picking on Sarah, "she ruined this person, she stepped on these people..." wah wah wah
Um, excuse me but most big time politicians DO NOT get to where they are today without "using people." Heck, most hghly successful people don't become successful by being everyone's friend and never showing aggressive behavior. IF they're called a bitch in the process, so be it. Their friends know they aren't that way. EVeryone has their prof and personal side. As a person, Sarah is funny and down to earth. People love her. As a professional, she is probably more like Anna Wintour, Barbara Walter and Martha Stewart (minus the elitism), people you just don't mess with.
We've all heard about Raum Emanual's anger problem, we've even heard about Obama's outbursts at aides. It happens to everyone.
Why the singling out of women and conservatives?
If you're willing to believe every word in Game Change (something I believe is stupid if one knows how DC works), then WHY do you choose to ignore how our current Sec of State behaved? She was depicted the same way, if not worse, than Sarah. Yet you trust her to hold high office?
Again, Frank Bailey was SPOT ON in saying that people initially attacked Sarah solely because of her conservative status, then because she was a woman, than because she is a happy woman with a loving supportive family. It happened in 06, it happened throughout her Gov run, it happened in 08 on a large scale, it's happening now.
This doesn't mean I or anyone should vote for her. It means we have GOT to stop with the double standards.
HOLD OBAMA AND HIS PEOPLE TO THEIR PROMISES. FOR ONCE IN YOUR LIFE DONT LET THE MEDIA DICTATE WHAT YOU BELIEVE ABOUT HIM OR ANYONE.
That said, never judge a person, regardless of who they are and what they say or believe. YOU are humans have no right nor any accuracy to EVER judge another person.
Joe McG? Dunno... don't go there anymore.
ReplyDeleteMy guess about all this is that Frank Bailey had a slightly different agenda from McGinniss's, and went about shopping his product differently. And, he is not a professional author whose income comes from his writing.
ReplyDeleteWhen unsophisticated people hop in to the shark pool, they are always shocked at the violent and vicious feeding frenzy that results. Some actually survive, others are just so much chum.
McGinniss is used to swimming with the sharks, is quite good at it really. Bailey didn't have a clue.
It sounds to me like he might have gotten some of his own medicine - someone leaked his manuscript? Somehow, it seems like Andrew Sullivan supposedly has it also, too...
ReplyDeleteTo me, this is another sign that Palin is over. When we divide our own factions (for whatever valid reasons) instead of uniting to bring her down, it must mean she's toast.
ReplyDeleteI think she's looked like toast for quite awhile now; it's even gettin' moldy.
Hope Joe delivers a knock out blow to Sarah...
ReplyDelete"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies."
Thanks in advance for your stated intention to moderate comments. Whatever feelings, thoughts or opinions one might have about Joe or his actions (or anything else), if they are expressed appropriately then there is no reason to accept other commenters' attacks and personal insults.
ReplyDeleteStating an opposing opinion, expressing different feelings in response, refuting the facts, arguing the relevance or importance - yes. But among and between commenters, the name-calling, hurling accusations and expressing extreme personal hostility are better left unpublished. Just my opinion.
Trudeau can't give baldfaced promotion to Joe's book so he has to be clever and jab Joe at the same time. That's a class thing. A kind of Ivy League, east coast hijinx played by old men who think they're still relevant.
ReplyDeleteOr it's just another way for Joe to ridicule people he considers way below his league. . .
I am just sorry that Blind Allegiance wasn't written with Jeanne Devon's flair - and that items were held back. I know, it was Frank's book, and if the goal was to allow a Christian man to repent his sins while protecting his former boss, he may have succeeded in releasing some of his personal guilt. It is clear that Frank is still protecting Sarah - I suppose he thinks SHE should confess and repent. Fat chance. Meanwhile, he's left the rest of the country to deal with an unstable hate-monger who continues to wield influence. Thanks for nothing, Frank.
ReplyDeleteAs for Joe - I guess he didn't read any of the blogs during his research?!! Ha! Most of the shit Sarah has pulled is thoroughly documented on the Gates, IM, Mudflats etc. - it will be very interesting to see how he used that information in his book, and if he gives credit where it is due. My bet is that Joe's book will pretty damn good - partly because he was never personally wrapped up in her completely fraudulent life.
Thanks, Gryph, for allowing us a forum to comment on Joe's most recent post.
ReplyDeleteIt appears rather meta in a way, but I'm an addict so I love it. :-)
http://www.gocomics.com/doonesbury/2010/07/20
A.
Omomma 6:57, yes.
ReplyDeleteIf you're going to play with the big boys, you better bring your A game. Suing after the fact because you weren't tough enough or savvy enough? Lame.
I felt a bit queasy when reading Doonesbury this morning, thinking: Great, Mcginniss will be debunked and Palin will ride wild and free again. Then, on second thought, decided that maybe some controversy will gin up book sales or at the very least interest in any Sarah Palin revelations that might serve to keep that woman out of the political sphere forever.
ReplyDeleteLet's just mostly withhold any negative comments until we see what the book is about. The Bailey kerfuffle should be handled in court, if the three Bailey writers so decide.
ReplyDeleteIf the McG book is good (tells the truth, enough of it), our criticism should take a back seat to the work the book does re Palin and her pals.
Plenty of time to rehash all if the book is not effective in bringing Palin's lying to the attention of all. Or if it's a transparent deal to out only Palin and protect Murdoch and McCain.
I too am done!
ReplyDelete"Truth be told, Obama can do no wrong in Liberal eyes." Oh really? Oh really? Do you not read Daily Kos or the blogs or the newspapers or listen to the news? Some liberals are even suggesting he be primaried. Your comment was either terribly misinformed or just full of Republican hubris.
ReplyDeleteJoe is so crafty, isn't he? What a guy. Doubt it will serve as much of an effective defense when he's sued, but it looks to me like he's going for PR damage control spin in the aftermath of the Truthout piece, and the untimely resurrection of all the OTHER articles about similar issues in his past.
ReplyDeleteI don't have any problems with Joe. I respect him as an author and he is entitled to his opinion and to how he runs his blog. I also don't begrudge him any marketing he's doing to sell (or at least to get people to read) his book. That's his goal and it's mine as well (to get people to read it, that is). It took a lot of guts for him to move in next to the Palins and he took a lot of abuse from the Bots for doing so.
ReplyDeleteHe has a friendship with Ailes, so what? I give him the benefit of the doubt that he doesn't let that influence his writing or his opinion (he is an adult, after all).
All I want is the truth to finally come out about Sarah Palin. Bailey put out half truths. Bloggers like Gryphen, Malia Litman, Laura Novak, etc. are doing their best to fill in all the blanks and dispute the lies. Joe and his book are part of that effort. Good for him and good for us that he decided to write it.
It's pretty immature (and undermines our goal) to let personality differences with an author or blogger get in the way of exposing the Palins and the MSM and the Republicans.
The Bot is here, drooling over this controversy.
ReplyDeleteZeebus,
ReplyDeleteYou're full of shit.
"Truth be told, Obama can do no wrong in liberals eyes."
Have you even been conscious during Obama's presidency? Liberals have been mad as hell at Obama and have not found that Obama has done much RIGHT. Name ANYTHING that Obama has done that could legitimately be labeled liberal. I'd bet that I am more liberal than anyone you have ever met and I can't think of a single thing that President Obama has done that could be labeled as truly liberal. Not one.
Furthermore, your assessments of every other person you mention by name are just as ridiculous.
Romney:
"Romney gave a great jobs speech recently..."
Romney's speech had all the substance of a smelly fart.
Cain:
"Cain is a tried and true businessman..."
Cain is a buffoon who panders to buffoons.
Huckkkleberry:
"Huckabee is the most honest politician we have."
He is a goddamned racist who is unable to criticize President Obama without race baiting the ignorant cousin humpers that view Huckkkleberry as "the most honest politician we have."
You'll probably be next telling us that Cheney is a foreign policy genius and the greatest defender of the Constitution that our nation has ever known.
WTF are you smoking? 'Cause it has definitely messed you up.
6:56 am No to double standards
ReplyDeleteThis is truly the dumbest comment I have ever read. Is this Chuck Heath or Sarah Palin yet again writing dumb shit? They are both crazy and ignorant.
Joe is probably going to endorse Sarah in his book, it wouldn't surprise me a bit.
ReplyDeleteHe must have given copies to Fox News also too.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteI am done with Joe. Done.
(Polite enough for ya?)
6:39 AM
-----------------
like!!!!
Re double standard: If Obama ever hoaxes us by saying he was pregnant for political gain like Palin did, I will go after him with equal fervor. --Amy1
ReplyDeleteTo me the most interesting part of this kerfuffle is that not only is it increasing interest in Joe's book, but also Bailey's book. Bailey's book could use the help, not because of the leaked manuscript, but because the blending of three amateur co-authors from different planets did not produce a compelling read. It contains useful information. It sits on my shelf unfinished because it was boring and annoying.
ReplyDeleteNo to double standards says:
ReplyDeleteAgain, Frank Bailey was SPOT ON in saying that people initially attacked Sarah solely because of her conservative status, then because she was a woman, than because she is a happy woman with a loving supportive family.
----------------
Uh, no sorry - she was picked from oblivion and put on the ticket in '08 to attract the Hillary vote (as if women were stupid enough to vote for someone because they are a woman) Little was known of her, so people looked into her background and once she started screeching after her scripted speech at the RNC and went into attack mode, it became clear she lacked substance. That is why she was and continues to be "attacked." She is an ambitious and opportunistic but otherwise vapid woman not remotely up to the job of running this country.
Oh please Mr McGuiness, not all of us are babes in the woods. We know what you did to Bailey was unethical. You may be a good author, but you are pretty transparent in your attempts to manipulate us. If you want to know more, you'll have to wait for my book to be released. It's strict on sale with only a few hundred ARC's.
ReplyDeletePoor, poor Joe. He's got to know his timing is screwed. That's why he's been working the "she's going to run" meme, even trying to goad her, so that his book will still have some relevance. And now he's working the Doonesbury angle, trying to get some traction.
ReplyDeletePalin is fading by the day, her own worst enemy. What kind of controversy can he drum up between now and publication date that will open up the window he's been watching close?
And regarding Anonymous 238 (or whatever we're calling the insider posting here recently) - I have said repeatedly, on this blog and others, that those comments are written by a very skillful writer with remarkable command of some pretty sophisticated techniques, along with the obvious correct usage and nuanced vocabulary. Just saying that it would explain a lot.
No to double standards,
ReplyDeleteYou're full of shit, too.
The criticisms of Palin had not a damn thing to do with her politics, her gender, or her family, it had to do with the fact that she is a fucking moron. There are too many instances of very conservative women who have not received anywhere near the type of criticism that Palin has, and these women have far more clearly articulated positions than Palin has.
You are naught but a panty sniffing Palin apologist.
Palin is an imbecilic clod who can't speak in complete, coherent sentences. She is a hopelessly narcissistic grifter who would rather pick the pockets of her supporters than honor her oath of office as governor. She isa laughable simpleton whose ignorance about history and politics defies credulity. She is a goddamned liar who seems to be incapable of honesty at any level.
Palin is a clown, and you are singing her praises.
Palin is a moron.
Reasonably intelligent people don't support Palin.
You support Palin.
ergo
You are a moron.
No to double standards says
ReplyDeleteThat said, never judge a person, regardless of who they are and what they say or believe. YOU are humans have no right nor any accuracy to EVER judge another person.
--
Check the dictionary -
judge, v. One who judges, especially:
a. One who makes estimates as to worth, quality, or fitness
So when someone is putting themselves up for the job of POTUS we aren't supposed to form an opinion as to their fitness for the position????
Read both books and try not to think about who the authors are.
ReplyDeleteI feel that at the end of the day, each book will rest on it's own merits, independent of when it was available to the public. Sheesh!
ReplyDeleteI suspect that the appearance in Doonesbury is well-funded by the McGinniss' publicity machine. This is what's called product placement in the film industry.
ReplyDeleteMcGinniss and co. know how to market. If there was a toy action figure angle, they would do it. Crawling on their bellies for every last book sale they can hoodwink the easy marks to cough up.
Somewhere a marketing flunky is counting every click and mention of McGinniss on the web. And other flunkies are seeding blogs and article comment streams with subtle and not so subtle plugs for the book. Controversy is just so much FREE advertising for the book.
Palin does the controversy routine so well, McGinniss probably picked up some techniques from her.
How diabolically clever. Some juicy bits from Joe's book will be "leaked" as this comic strip is being run, thus stirring up interest in the book while at the same time providing Joe with a defense when he gets sued for what he did to AKM. He can say, See, I leaked some bits of my book deliberately and it helped my sales, so how can they say what I did to them hurt their sales?
ReplyDeleteThis "leak" promotes a book that's out of the printer's and on it's way to stores. The other leak took place before the competition even had a book deal.
Geezzz...all this discussion re 'The Book', the blog, comments/no comments, the cartoon, the Ailes friendship, etc. is getting tedious.
ReplyDeleteI'm yawning with Ripley....
Despite the creds of the author or the subject matter of the writing, this is simply part of a very calculated PR plan prior to release. Come on, people! The publisher and the author are in it to make as much $$ as possible so any and all controversy which draws attention to this book and its impending publication and distribution is totally by design.
1. Sure hope Joe gives credit where credit is due in the book. Because, you know, his track record.
ReplyDelete2. Only lefties and progressives read Doonesbury. Many conservative metro dailies no longer publish the strip, and haven't for years. Others place it on the opinion pages, hah!
3. Sarah has pulled her own plug. Listen and you can hear the sound of it all swirling around the drain.
6:56AM - did it feel good to type all that nonsense troll? guess what....you're still a retarded troll and still make no sense. try harder next time. you'll get this whole logic thing one day. until then don't bother spewing your unhinged rants because they just show everyone how stupid you really are.
ReplyDeletePS- Yes, literally everything sarah touches turns to shit. accept it and move on. ranting anonymously to people who think you're an idiot isn't doing any good.
I don't care anymore about Joe's drama until I start reading reviews on his book.
ReplyDeleteI met Joe when he was up here in the Valley. Had several talks with him I usually can read people and their motives pretty well. This controversy over releasing Baily's manuscript doesn't square with how he came across. I think you are really going to be surprised when you see the book. Mike and Jeri O'Neill used to own the house he was renting on Lake Lucille. Her obituary is in the paper today.
ReplyDeleteA bit OT, but I might have just noticed something re: 'the running photo'.
ReplyDeleteNow, every time I read a comment that went so far as to say 'that's not even her!' (the 'body-double theory'), I immediately said 'now THAT is crazy!'.
However, I just looked at the picture again, and, photoshop aside,,,CHECK OUT THE HAIR....
Can Scarah's 'hair' even DO that? We've seen her with obvious wigs as well as without....
Nobody would run wearing a wig unless the were crazy,,,(yeah, I know!)
Could her real hair make that giant, thick, freaky backside ponytail??
Looks strange enough to me that I'm personally putting 'body-double' on the table in my personal assessment.
THAT SAID, in light of all the talk about what she's been wearing, I have been focused on her 'accessories',,, especially that KEY she was wearing in Iowa.
What's the deal with that? I've Googled a bit on it, and the best I can come up with is that it's some kind of Dominionist thing,,,'key's to the kingdom'...
...and some kind of token to 'ward off demons',and 'open the doors of prosperity'.
If that's the case, it's seriously f""""d up!
Don't forget that the reason for the Blackberries was to keep in touch with her 'prayer warriors'...
jUSt freaking imagine if President Obama had worn some kind of quasi-religious charm around his neck on the campaign trail to keep 'demons' away! If HE had done that, he would not have become President. They would have destroyed his candidacy with that.
SO,,,what's the story with that freakin' key necklace,,,,NO WAY she wore it because she thought it was cute-- she pays a great deal of attention to the symbols she wears on her necklace.
As I said previously, Joe is no different than Palin. When you now compare his blog to her Facebook - they've both been sanitized for the appearance of only the blog articles and comments that are good, supportive and those that agree with them. You could call it whitewashing it away as if it didn't happen. Much the same as the history textbooks being re-written in Texas.
ReplyDeleteOur foundation's multi pre-order was cancelled and removal of all previous books from the inventory of the reading/library rooms of the numerous facilities. Like his blog - McGinniss didn't happen!!
If he believes this is the way to attract people to his book - he truly is a sad old man.
why comment at all about the Doonsebury thingee if he actually thought it would hurt his sales
ReplyDeleteI missed that part in Game Change about Hillary Clinton hiding in her room and being unable to think on her feet, so her handlers just had her memorize a series of canned answers and told her to say "Well, what the American people really want to know" when she got a question she hadn't memorized.
ReplyDeleteRight?
I do remember a discussion of turmoil in Clinton's office that might point to poor executive skills, but she's not president, is she? And she's a damn fine Secretary of State, who, among other things, knows that there are two Koreas (and why there are) and that Africa is a continent, not a country.
But boy, that Chelsea Clinton wowed them with her turn on Dancing with the Stars. Too bad she couldn't get a good education, what with her getting knocked up at 17 by her thug of a boyfriend. That's why the photographers follow her everywhere she goes.
I am bewildered by the venom spouted against Joe McGinnis. The whole kerfuffle around Blind Allegiance shows the Joe is not Mr Nice. But why should he be?
ReplyDeleteI love a bit of gossip, admire the tenaciousness of the anti-Palin bloggers like Gryphen, and visit IM and other sites daily. However, when Joe started his blog, I was hoping it would offer a forum for a different level of discourse on the phenomenon Sarah Palin. Gossip is interesting,and useful in its own way, but facts carry more weight.
Unfortunately, quite soon Joe's blog was infested with speculation and wild theories (about Track's parentage, for instance). He had every right to object. And again, why must he be Mr Nice Guy?
(and kudos to him for getting Trudeau to promote his book.)
Agree with your insights:
ReplyDelete" Anonymous said...
Trudeau can't give baldfaced promotion to Joe's book so he has to be clever and jab Joe at the same time. That's a class thing. A kind of Ivy League, east coast hijinx played by old men who think they're still relevant.
Or it's just another way for Joe to ridicule people he considers way below his league. . .
7:06 AM"
Some of the calls for "unity" on the alleged violation of copyright are fear driven, I think. Some are afraid that they could be a defendent in an intellectual property case. If the Bailey book authors want to sue, so be it. It will add to the case law and justice will be done in the sense that people can put it behind them. The reason we have law is so people can have a forum to air their greivances. Without that there would only be violence. And a trial is heavily "moderated." People can't just go to court and hurl accusattions. For example, Joe M's friendship with Roger A. probably wouldn't be allowed into evidence.
ReplyDeleteI think Joe M. is an adult and his friendship with Roger A. shouldn't be a problem. Look at Carver and Matalin who married despite their political differences. Adults are big enough to make an agreement to not talk about certain things if it leads to fights. Then some people like to fight.
A lot of the anger at Joe M.'s blogging may be due to his observation that many commenters are obsessed with babygate. He sarcastically criticized them as people who "know." People have to realize that their standard of what constitutes "knowledge" and/or "proof" may not be shared by others. It is part of growing up, being educated.
The only thing that those of us who have been following the Palin Circus need to concern ourselves with is The Book. If Joe M. has delivered the goods about Palin, then we can all take a deep breath and realize that the nightmare is near its end. I am really not interested in the in-fighting; preemptive strikes by authors or who said what first. I just want to make sure that the rest of America finds Joe's or anyone's book interesting enough to read. Because, once they discover what many of us have known since 2008, they will never trust the Republicans again. I hope she gets lots of attention as a result of Joe's book. So much so that she has to hide somewhere and become merely an asterisk in history.
ReplyDeleteNo to Double Standards wins the prize for writing the most classic, point-perfect let's-be-fair troll post on Gryph's blog.
ReplyDeleteI do have a comment, a rather long one, but it does not disparage Frank Bailey or Mr. McGinniss or anyone. I woke up in the night thinking about this. I think I read a comment from Joe that his book deals with more than Sarah Palin, meaning it deals with politics in Alaska and this country. I hope by that he means that he "covers" the cover-up! That he exposes (hopefully with testimonials from key players) the coverup that allowed Sarah Palin to remain on the GOP ticket even after Troopergate was in court, allowed her to remain there with speculative rumors about her baby Trig, allowed her to remain there even though her performance in interviews and off-the-cuff appearances showed her to be uninformed, and well, just plain stupid. There are so many people or groups implicit in the voice, full of hate and stupidity, that she has been given: including, Frank Bailey, Megan Stapleton, other staffers, McCain's campaign staff, McCain himself (this cannot be stressed enough), the GOP operatives or whoever went to Wasilla and not only did a strip and search of computers, etc. but essentially took over the Governor's office such that her own constituents could not communicate directly with her during the campaign, which brings me to Sean Parnell's role! Where was he, why did she not concede power of the office to him? Why was he not "in charge" and taking care of matters at home while she was on the campaign trail. Then there is the Republican National Committee and the monies spent on clothes, and other items for the entire Palin clan. By doing all of this, especially scrubbing computers, setting up house in the Governor's office, some people, some where, at some time, must have learned certain truths about Palin, Todd, Trig, Troopergate, the failure to properly govern Alaska, the list could go on and on. I hope Mr. McGinniss's book will blow all of that wide open, but does he have the stamina, the nerve, the protection he might need to go up against the machine that enabled Palin?
ReplyDeleteTruthfully, to read the Doonesbury strip -- IMO -- it tanked. A loud 'thud'.
ReplyDeleteMcGinniss & Trudeau's attempt knowing the expertise of Trudeau - would be graded at a lower level than a primary school kid. If Trudeau keeps it up - he's doing more damage to himself than what he believes he is doing it for.
The key may just be a knockoff of the key necklaces that Tiffany has been selling. Granny LuLu is a knockoff shopper, I think - no originals for her.
ReplyDeleteI highly doubt that it's a Phi Beta Kappa or Kappa Kappa Gamma key. Will the University of Idaho confirm her graduation?
The Pee Ponders are heaping scorn on Ann Coulter and Laura Ingraham because those two "jealous, petty" beyotches dared to diss their Quitter Queen. Such comments as "I'm done with them," kinda remind me of the in-fighting going on in the anti-Palin blogs.
ReplyDeleteThe nastiness of Joe's reply to AKM, including his shocking reference to her recently deceased mother, finished it for me. I hope his book is worthwhile and is effective in helping others see Palin for the fraud she is. He just won't get a sale from me.
ReplyDeleteZeebus
ReplyDelete"Obama can do no wrong in liberals (sic) eyes." In all due respect, you may wish to follow the news before entering the discourse on this well informed blog. The far left despises President Obama.
Any suggestions who that middle ground candidate you are seeking might be and who would support him or her?
Bill
What is the deal on this Joe M and Roger Ailes connection? In my book, when I heard that, it immediately made J untrustworthy.
ReplyDeleteAlso, why is J advertising the fact so much?
Is he some sort of double agent - haha?
I find both sides of this drama rather distasteful. However, of the two I will only be buying one of their books and it will be Joe's. I wasn't even interested enough in what Bailey had to say to read the leak. *yawn*
ReplyDeleteWhy would Joe M be upset if people were speculating about Track's parentage? Because it violated the terms of his special Roger A contract? hmmmm
ReplyDeleteI am going to send the Obama campaign $100.00 for his re-election; therefore I won't be buying the Joe book. I feel we need to really continue to support President Obama and feel that is the best use of my money.
ReplyDeleteAll so confusing about the McGinniss kerfuffle. I don't like being played. Is he playing games with his readers? I don't get why he drops hints, and plays out pieces of info through the Doonesbury cartoon. But I'll buy "The Rogue" because of it's contents.
ReplyDeleteThe twice reference to being friends with Roger Ailes - why does he do this? If the book is as good as he promotes it to be, it will speak for itself.
Anon 7:45
ReplyDeleteSorry to hear about Mrs. O'Neill. From her obituary she seems like a wonderful person.
-A
Wow, @7:34! I have mixed feelings about whether anon 2:38 is the real deal or not, but your suspicion seems very possible. Interesting take. Thanks for giving me one more thing to ponder!
ReplyDelete~Pogo
I can see both sides of the Bailey/Devon v. McGinniss kerfuffle. However, Joe's attitude toward some former readers of his blog was SO obnoxious and schizophrenic. I particularly recall him ragging on someone for starting a comment with "Say it ain't so, Joe". Ass. I'll still read his book (mostly due to Andrew Sullivan's rec), but I don't like him as a person. Typical that he isn't allowing comments (blaming it on his publisher). He doesn't like to be questioned. I still think it will be interesting to see how he behaves in his various television interviews, as he seems to have a short fuse.
ReplyDelete@7:16 - RE: "Truth be told, Obama can do no wrong in Liberal eyes."
ReplyDeleteYour response: "Oh really? Oh really? Do you not read Daily Kos or the blogs or the newspapers or listen to the news? Some liberals are even suggesting he be primaried. Your comment was either terribly misinformed or just full of Republican hubris."
I am so sick of hearing the republican crazies say that we are so enamored with President Obama. I don't see anyone worshiping him like SP (fading though). Most dems are disappointed that he is running the country more to the right of republicans than even in the middle of the two parties.
Personally, I look at the choices we had and he was the best choice. He is articulate and smart. Perfect? Hell no. When I am disappointed with him I just think that it could be McCain/Palin and we would be in a world of shit.
Huckabee honest? Really? That is funny.
No To Double Standards 6:56
ReplyDeleteThere is no similarity in the hate that Republicans are spewing all over this country to any Democrat, anywhere! Sarah Palin has said things that she should be accused of sedition for. Especially since she isn't even "in" politics ...she is no one special any longer, just an American citizen who still manages to pretend she is someone important. People dislike her(except for a small group of racist, mouth breathing(God, I am sorry, I hate that phrase) undereducated fools) because she is mean and she lies. All the good she could have done, she decided wasn't important. What always amazes me about all of you way right wing crazies is that you claim to know and fear God. You cannot possibly. If there is a hell you will surely be there.
If there is any double standard, it is that Sarah Palin has been given a pass because she is a woman. She is never called out on how uneducated about this country she has LET herself be, and she is never made to explain herself. It is so strange. Believe me, anyone can learn. Also, do not compare an intellectual with the abilities of Hillary Clinton to someone like Sarah Palin. On top of that, look at the difference in their children. Are you totally nuts?
I make my own opinion up about a person, so I followed Joe's blog for awhile and investigated him on the web. It became readily apparent that there is little difference between Joe McGinnis and Sarah Palin. They are both narcissists that ruthlessly use people for their own benefit, and then toss them under the bus. In fact, people are totally unimportant and inconsequential to cheats like those two; unless they CAN be used.
ReplyDeleteHe may be a good writer, but Joe McGinnis is not a good person. On his blog he employed cheap psychological tricks AGAINST HIS AUDIENCE that were obvious and apparent to any professional observing it (please pardon the redundancies, but I want to be clear).
I'll hope he did a good job on his Palin book, but I refuse to support the selfish jerk.
You say you are a friend of his, Gryph. I would say that you are only his friend as long as he can use you to mention his name and his work on Immoral Minority, which is an important Internet web site that McGinnis affectionately refers to as a useless blog. I'd be mucho wary if I were you, Gryph, because like Palin, McGinnis eventually turns on any friend who can no longer serve his self-interests. If I were you, I would expect nothing less from a cretin like McGinnis.
(It took me a full 5 minutes to remove all the swear words that littered my first draft of this comment.)
And for the person who wrote that we should never judge a person (6:56). You just did, so stop telling other people to do something you yourself are unwilling to do.
We all judge the people who come into our lives. That's how we make it through life without getting eaten by the likes of a Joe McGinnis or a Sarah Palin.
Anonymous @ 7:56 AM said...
ReplyDeleteI am bewildered by the venom spouted against Joe McGinnis. The whole kerfuffle around Blind Allegiance shows the Joe is not Mr Nice. But why should he be?
I think some saw McGinnis as a friend, so they felt betrayed when he said some theories were not allowed.
It's his blog, he can choose to run it any way he sees fit. As he said, he's a writer, that's how he makes a living, so he was doing a bit of advertising for his book before it came out. I think that may have also upset some people.I thought it was clear there was some advertising for the book going on when the portion of the site was named 'rogue-blog' but then, that's just me.
From the whole Mudflats kerfluffle I don't know who was right or wrong. Sounds like each side dinged each other pretty good, so it evens out in the end, IMHO, and it should be left at that.
I really don't read either blog. I'm too busy with IM, Palin- and Political- gates anyway.
Surely you're not going to count down the days, "Doonesbuy on McGinniss, day two" style, building up the book launch on the 20th?
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDelete"I am bewildered by the venom spouted against Joe McGinnis. The whole kerfuffle around Blind Allegiance shows the Joe is not Mr Nice. But why should he be?
I love a bit of gossip, admire the tenaciousness of the anti-Palin bloggers like Gryphen, and visit IM and other sites daily. However, when Joe started his blog, I was hoping it would offer a forum for a different level of discourse on the phenomenon Sarah Palin. Gossip is interesting,and useful in its own way, but facts carry more weight.
Unfortunately, quite soon Joe's blog was infested with speculation and wild theories (about Track's parentage, for instance). He had every right to object. And again, why must he be Mr Nice Guy?
(and kudos to him for getting Trudeau to promote his book.)"
7:56 AM
---------------------------
Very well said.
It appears that Joe hurt the feelings of a few folks who expected him to cheerlead the various theories of the Palin soap opera they were pushing. The hatred they only reserved for the Grifter now seems to be directed at Joe. There are some serious fragile egos being shown here.
The main item of interest on Joe's blog was how he suddenly began to shamelessly and hypocritically attack his own commenters.
ReplyDeleteI thought the change in temperament might have been caused by the impending Bailey suit news, but now I am pretty sure it was just Joe's monumental ego getting the better of him. He just isn't a guy cut out to mix with folks he considers lesser intellects (unless he is scamming them out of something, as he did with Jeffrey McDonald).
The best points of documented hypocrisy? Two: First, when he called folks out for calling SP a pyschopath...only 2 weeks after he said the very same thing. Then, when he went after Bristol, only 2 weeks after abusing commenters for "constantly"
talking about Bristol when he "found her boring." I guess she was only boring when others talked about her, and I guess armchair psychoanalysis was only worth mocking when others did it.
I'll still read summaries of Joe's book, and I still hope it damages SP. BUT, I'll still think Joe showed himself to be a horse's ass of a human being.
Anon 7:50AM - she carries 2 blackberries to keep in contact with her handlers, not 'prayer warriors.' She's wired-up to her controllers in some way or other constantly, otherwise she'd degrade in front of your eyes.
ReplyDeleteOn her own she has nothing to offer.
Sharon TN
One other possibility: Ailes – the ultimate Fox –is far more amoral than Joe, and Joe has just THOUGHT they had a decades-old friendship. And Ailes had Joe 'wired' from day one and will now, from behind the scenes, completely ruin Joe's book promo, and nothing Joe says will be fully believed by the 'MSM'.
ReplyDeleteAiles and his cohort Murdoch have not only several million dollars invested in the former half-governor, but whatever may be described as their 'reputations' as well. I don't expect Fox to play 'nice' in any of this, and I would question whether Ailes even knows the meaning of the words 'trust' and 'friendship' as any of us understand them.
Despite all of Joe's talents and hard work, he may find himself trapped in a corner – ready for a big trot-out, but also ready to be ultimately ignored in message. Perhaps the knowledge of this possibility influenced his mood swings???
We've all heard of opposition research being conducted by one's own side, as a preparation for a presidential run. All the worst than can be said or discovered about the candidate is actually dug up by the candidate's own opposition research team, then sanitized, debated, and neutralized before the ultimate premiere of the candidate. God forbid that Joe's book should ultimately serve such a purpose. (ie, "yeah, she's a rogue, alright, but an unstoppable one, a force that is powerful, to be reckoned with, blah, blah, blah.")
Hope I'm wrong on all these theories, but none of them is an impossibility in this amoral world.
Just some rambling observations about the books and the authors: I used to be a big fan of Joe McG, and I have read several of his books. I think he has been arrogant when referring to bloggers (after all, he gets paid and they don't) and commenters, and he also paints us all with too broad of a brush. He needs to go back and read his disappointing book Never Enough before he tries to act so superior. I wish I could get my money back from that stinker of a trashy true crime novel and PayPal it to Gryphen. I still don't really dislike him, but the shine has definitely worn off. I will probably buy his Palin book and am optimistic about it. I might have more sympathy for the Bailey book authors if they weren't collaborating with someone trying to cash in on his own despicable behavior, and if they weren't so whiny about it in their book. It seemed so unprofessional. I stopped reading Mudflats a long time ago because it seemed cultish, and I just never took a liking to Jeanne Devon's writing.
ReplyDeleteThis. Is. A. Distraction. Keep your eyes on the prize.
ReplyDeleteI find the whole thing entertaining.
ReplyDeleteGood grief, folks, even Doonesbury is in on the game.
The pub is good for both books.
A. Sullivan has given it a strong nod, something he has done with many IM posts, so Iĺl be buying it.
I wasn't going to buy Joe's book because I'm on a strict budget. But now, in light of all the people making accusations that he's no different from Sarah or that he's some kind of a double agent or that he's a hack or a crazy old man, etc...I think I'll go place my order.
ReplyDeleteLove you, Gryphen, and so glad to have you and Joe and all the other bloggers picking away at the Palins.
6:56 - I know that Hilary Clinton must be doing a helluva job because you don't hear anything about her. Nope - almost nothing. If she was doing a bad job you would hear the republicans screaming from the rooftops.
ReplyDeleteI would just LOVE to see Bachmann or Palin doing Hilary's job. That would be priceless if it wasn't for the fact that either one of them would damage our country beyond recognition.
You are delusional my friend.
anon@734: that's what I'm thinking as well, re: anon238.
ReplyDeleteSharon TN 8:56 AM
ReplyDeleteSooo, what about this:
http://www.ministers-best-friend.com/Prayer-Warriors-in-Politics.html
Just askin'!
I've got no dog in this fight but want to point out that the reason Joe gave for closing comments was that he will not have time until after his book promotion duties to moderate the comments. That is reasonable. And he took a deserved swipe at some of those commenters who, like commenters everywhere, tend to go off the deep end.
ReplyDeleteAll of you rushing to Joe's defense and accusing those of us who dislike him of being "hurt" and driven by "hatred" remind me of Palinbots. Seriously, guys; stop blindly defending an unethical, arrogant jerk just because you hope he'll take Palin down or because you get an ego trip by imagining you were on his "side" when his blog blew up in his face thanks to his own ineptitude. (Yes, losing a few hundred preorders hurt him, make no mistake about it. Not so much, perhaps, in terms of overall sales, but it will drag down where he opens on the NYT list, and that is important.)
ReplyDeleteI dislike Joe for the same reason I dislike Sarah: they've both given ample reasons to make me suspect they're sociopaths. Joe is the less dangerous because even tho he thinks he's famous and important, he really isn't that well know and his influence is limited.
I had been giving McGinnis the benefit of the doubt and thought the whole saga with Jeanne Devon was a bit ridiculous UNTIL Joe posted about the Track comments. I am not upset he got bitchy with commenters; it's his blog and his right to do so.
ReplyDeleteHOWEVER, by bringing attention to the issue the way he did, he seemed like a middle school girl trying to start drama. Like, "OMG Track, I heard the WORST rumor about you....I can't believe anyone would actually SAY that...I would NEVER say something like that out loud. So what that you look just like your godfather and not at all like your sisters. That doesn't mean you have a different father. People are such stupid jerks. I mean, who spreads a rumor like that?" Totally passive-aggressive BS. And I have no patience for grown men who act like little girls.
Anonymous@8:37
ReplyDeleteClap Clap Clap
Very well said.
Thank you.
what an ass.
ReplyDelete"That said, never judge a person, regardless of who they are and what they say or believe. YOU are humans have no right nor any accuracy to EVER judge another person."
ReplyDelete6:56 AM
Am I to assume you are NOT human?
What category are you in then?
And How does one determine what another is or thinks or might do without listening to what they say or believe or how they act? When another is putting him/her self out there for consideration for credibility, one must have some criteria for deciding one's opinion of the other's credibility?
It's amusing to see the hype and hope from anti-Palin folks with each new "negative' book which comes out about her. They are delirious with expectations that THIS BOOK or THAT BOOK will be the one to finally expose her dastardly deeds.
ReplyDeleteEach book does have its merits, but if anyone really thinks that some smoking-hot scandal will be revealed in one of these books, they simply don't understand either marketing techniques or human nature. The truth is that sources with truly damaging (and potentially lucrative) information about Palin aren't going to hand it over for a pittance to some other author. If they decided to reveal the information, they would negotiate their own price with a media outlet who would give THEM the big bucks.
I suspect that McGinniss's book will be an interesting read, but won't contain any more information than the anti-Palin bloggers and their readers don't already know.
As for me, I won't buy Joe's book because I won't subsidize an author who is so insecure and cut throat about his own book that he unethically resorted to leaking his perceived competitors' unpublished manuscript. I can see that Joe McGinniss writing about Sarah Palin has a certain logical symmetry between author and subject---and it ain't a pretty symmetry.
I think "kerfuffle" is the word of the day!
ReplyDeleteGryphen, I join the chorus of people who would like Anonymous 238 to get her own page. You don't have to say you believe she's the real deal, add a disclaimer if you must, but give her a platform that is more accessible and visible than the Bloomfield post PLEASE. No one can accuse you of getting into it with Joe just by giving her a post, and anon 238’s posts will be one more arrow to pierce Sarah’s thick hide of her false image. (And a nice plus, we’ll see whether or not Sarah "doesn't care" about anon posters. ;D )
ReplyDeleteAnd if anyone lives in the Bay Area who would be willing to let me borrow their copy of Joe's book when they're done, drop me a line and maybe we can do coffee? I’ll support him as far as to read it but not as far as giving him my money. He clearly told us on his blog he’ll make enough money without us, so I’m taking his advice. Tee-hee
As an observer I have noticed that there are some commenter's who frequent the blogs that have a very high emotional investment going on. I think they see themselves as partners with Joe McG, AKM, IM, and Politicalgates, and Palingates. When AKM doesn't allow talk about certain issues, these poster's are livid, and talk very disparagingly about her. They fail to realize it's her blog, and she's the one who runs it, not them. Same goes with IM. People have become upset because Gryph monitors some, and they get pissed when there comment isn't allowed. They then feel the need to write negative things about him on other blogs. It's strange behavior, and I for one was glad Joe McG called these people out. I have quit reading comments from certain posters because they are so full of hate they embarrass me. That's my prerogative. I quit reading a couple of the blogs, because I don't like some of the slant they put on things. Again my prerogative. Again, my choice. What I do not do is feel the need to go to other blogs and vent about other bloggers, what they choose to allow, and if they post my comments or not. Why there are some who are so upset is beyond me. It may be time for some people to turn off the computer and get active in "real" life again. There is a presidential race coming up, take that anger you feel and harness it in a productive way. JMO
ReplyDeleteGryphen, I must say that I am very surprised at how you are bristling at criticism of McGinniss. It's your blog and you can publish any damn thing you want or not, but it seems rather uncharacteristic for you to all of a sudden be concerned that we need to be polite to Joe, or anyone else for that matter. I also suspect that Joe is big enough to take any slings and arrows that might come his way here or anywhere else.
ReplyDeleteIt's just a guess, but I'd bet that your regular readers and contributors have probably never been more out of step with you than on this issue.
I am more than a little befuddled by what appears to be a rather abrupt change here at IM.
Maybe interest in Joe's book is fading as fast as $PayMe's flower.
ReplyDeleteCould it be?
Why not?
What could Joe possibly tell us that we haven't already heard or seen?
The only thing his book will accomplish is to have a journalistic document of all the rumor and innuendo that has heretofore been swept under the rug - look, nothing came of Frank Bailey's first-person accounting of the coordination between the Palin campaign in 2006 and the RGA's making of advertisements supporting her for Governor, although it was clearly illegal and she knew it was at the time she allowed herself to be filmed.
Governor Sean Parnell must be protecting her.
8:37 is right on the money. Gryphen is too quick to think people who treat him like he matters is a friend. Anyone who knows anything about his background and is naive enough to think Joe McGinniss is out for anyone but Joe McGinniss is incredibly naive. Jeanne thought he was his friend and look where it got her. I don't expect for Gryphen to see so much as a Christmas card from his "friend Joe" when all is said and done.
ReplyDeleteGryphen can still drop his name, though, as in "Back when Joe McGinniss pretended to be my friend..."
PS: It appears Joe is still pouting.
ReplyDeleteJoe brought this all upon himself.
ReplyDeletePeople should recall what the post was that actually exposed his 'Jekyll & Hyde' side, bringing it to the forefront in a major way.
It was not the babygate theories, Track, nor the Bristol post about Trip being filmed - even though a number of those posts and/or comments having now been sanitized.
It happened when McGinniss posted about the father and son stalking arrests. The case whereby it revolves around Palin's lawyer receiving the calls and threats -- not a case where it involves Palin receiving them - IMO another free pass as if it's a Palin Free Pass Zone in AK.
But I digress. Back to the McGinniss matter -- He was totally surprised that so many commented opposing/differing opinions to his belief. And this people -- totally pissed Joe off. Why weren't we all in lockstep with his belief/opinion, his post.
Well Joe -- the last I looked -- we all had a brain and could think for ourselves without the necessity 'to be told' by a 'curmudgeon' that we should 'all get along'. We, unlike the Palin Panty Sniffers (of which I'm beginning to believe you are one and only did the book for the $$$) - are educated, intelligent and think for ourselves - have differing thoughts, opinions, ideas. Oh my, fancy that Joe - people with a brain - can you handle it?? Doesn't actually appear so. Your similarities to Palin are quickly being exposed.
So deal with it Joey.
As for his Doonesbury strips -- he's putting on full display of being a patronizing buffoon -- which will come back and bite him in the ass as he's waved it out for all to see and the publishing industry has recognized it. I also anticipate that there 'will' be a Court filing as against McGinniss and his agent's illegal actions.
McGinniss, like Palin, believes themselves above the law. I wouldn't be so confident Joe. What goes up does eventually come down!! Usually at their own hand.
I'll restock my popcorn for a front row seat.
I vowed not to buy Joe's book when he wrote the fawning ode to his good buddy, Roger Ailes. I won't knowingly put my money into the pocket of one of Ailes's buddies.
ReplyDeleteI am very skeptical that Joe's book will be a hard-hitting expose of Palin. More likely it will be a whitewash, billed as an expose. I'm thinking that it will be used by her supporters to say "Look! This famous author investigated Sarah for 2 years, and all he could attack her about is her Christianity!" (dominioniism will be featured in the book, Joe has said). It just seems very unlikely to me that Joe would do a real expose about the protege of his good buddy Roger.
Of course, I could be wrong....we will see in a couple of weeks.
Some posters have asserted that Jeanne betrayed McGinness by working on her book without mentioning it to Joe, thereby somehow justifying his despicable actions. I strongly disagree. McGinness is a for-profit author, Jeanne was a source. Joe was seeking to get information from her for his use in writing a book for money (he is so very proud of being a PAID author, not an obsessive blogger). They were not friends; she owed him nothing, except basic ethical behavior. I've seen no assertion that Jeanne used anything she learned from Joe in her book.
Even if Doonesbury does make digs at Joe for leaking BA, I'm sure Joe will be smiling at the free publicity. He has no shame for leaking the manuscript, he won't mind the wider distribution of the story if he gets even one extra book sale out of it. And he knows he will get far more than one additional sale from the publicity.
Just my humble opinion.
I don't think the Bailey group is going to have a case against Joe. His book is known to be out there before the actual publication date of 9/20/11.
ReplyDeleteAKM and Bailey are novices when compared to Joe's history and success as an investigative writer.
Before anyone hollers at me - I bought and read the Bailey book (thought it poorly written) as well as "The Lies of Sarah Palin". Preferred the latter book much more. And, I have two of Joe's books on order and look forward to reading it. (the other is a gift to a family member)
Wow. What an interesting marketing ploy. Get the public all ready for that Sept 20 release. Maybe even have Trudeau put a tiny taste of the book's contents in the strip. What's really funny is that some people will actually think that significant parts of The Rogue were leaked prior to availability.
ReplyDeleteAs for the kerfluffle between the Three Blind Allegiencers and McG, let the courts handle it. When amateurs try to play in the same league as professionals, they often find themselves alone in left field.
Joe said he will not tolerate Bristol-Levi comments on his blog. THEN he writes a blog dissing Bristol as an abusive parent - INVITING comments and wild speculation.
ReplyDeleteTHEN Joe deletes that particular blog and all the comments and goes on to dis supporters of his blog and tweets that tweeting "electronic masturbation".
What's up with all that???
Until Joe gives an explanation for this seeming hypocrisy I remain extremely skeptical about anything he has to say and am still confused on what to think about Joe and his tactics. I'll just bide time and see what plays out.
I still want an explanation one day though or I'll never trust you again Joe!
Anon
ReplyDeleteThis. Is. A. Distraction. Keep your eyes on the prize.
9:00 AM
-----------
It may be possible that you don't have the ability to do more than one thing at a time -- but the majority of people on this blog do.
So as it being a distraction to us -- no it's not to us. We can juggle a major number of things or as they call it 'multi-tasking'.
We have ideas, dressing and feeding the kids, prepare meals, read/post on blogs -- all at once!! Fancy that!! You should ask someone how to do it.
Anon 10:36
ReplyDeleteThere is a presidential race coming up, take that anger you feel and harness it in a productive way. JMO
-------
Yes you are entitled to do what you want and say. So are we.
So IMO I have two words for you:
The first one starts with 'F', the second with 'O'.
Have a pleasant day!!
I conclude that Trudeau is on friendly terms with McGinniss, is joshing him about the lawsuit threat, and giving McGinniss free publicity - it's fun for Trudeau, and doesn't cost him anything. It's all part of the elite media game. To quote a remark of George Carlin, who told the simple truth and was called a "satirist", "It's a big club - and you ain't in it."
ReplyDeleteBottom line, I like Joe McGinniss. Joe had the guts to call out Scarah & her zombie followers when she accused him of looking into Piper's window. It was perfect!
ReplyDeleteAs for Frank Bailey, after watching his interviews, I got the feeling he is still infatuated with Palin & his book was boring. He even backpedaled a few times and put a lot of the blame on Todd.
I'm looking forward in reading Joe's book. Out of all the books about Palin, his, may be the one that will destroy Cruella De Vil of Wasilla.
Anon 10:59
ReplyDeleteI don't think the Bailey group is going to have a case against Joe. His book is known to be out there before the actual publication date of 9/20/11
----------
Firstly, it's clear in your comment that you have no knowledge of the publishing industry.
Secondly, that your comment that I have copied above - makes no sense in that the copy of the book that Andrew Sullivan has read is by way that Joe provided him said copy. That there are 'copies' out there before release date, does not negate what he and his agent did.
There is a massive difference in how this happened. Joe is at liberty to hand printed copies to whom he wishes prior to the release date - Andrew is one and who knows who else. I don't actually give a flip.
As for 'the Bailey group' - yes they do have a case and I hope they action it.
Joe is not thought highly of in the publishing industry -- in fact, the last 'word on the street' I've heard is 'don't trust him as far as you can throw him' and 'he can't be trusted'. Many have turned their back on him because of his and his agent's actions.
I agree with others here who believe that Joe is using Gryphen just like he used Jeanne and others in the state of Alaska to further his own journalistic ambitions. I believe he (seeming to be an erudite elitist) wouldn't give the time of day to everyday folk like most of us except if we had a link to something of interest to him, or if we had insider knowledge to someone or something that he has set his sights on. I feel that after interest in his book has crested, he will discard his 'friends' and contacts related to all of this like so much used toilet paper. Joe's a smooth operator and Jeanne Devon in my opinion) did make a naive mistake in befriending him, but her mistake in no way justifies his subsequent release of the manuscript.
ReplyDeleteI believe his release of the manuscript was a calculated move to diminish interest (and thus sales) of Blind Allegiance. Truthout's expose on him only further bolsters my belief. As you can probably guess at this point, no I won't be buying his book and will also let others know of his well documented questionable behavior and ethics.
I know Gryphen is a smart guy who knows when his is and isn't being used, but I hope Gryphen doesn't get too close to McGinness for the above stated reasons.
Wish Berkeley Breathed would bring back Bloom County. That was my favorite political cartoon ever!
ReplyDeleteDid someone here actually call Joe a sociopath? Based on what evidence?
ReplyDeleteThe fact that he expresses an opinion, that he's trying to market his book on a blog that is designed to market his book, that he has his own opinions about how we should discuss the different "gates?"
What's next? Will you call him a stalker or a pedophile because he moved in next to the Palins for a short time?
Get a grip.
An author who wants to sell his book is not a sociopath. A blogger who welcomes comments, but puts limits on the topics and tone based on his own opinions is not a sociopath.
Sarah Palin is a sociopath. Jeffrey MacDonald is a sociopath. Joe McGinnis is not a sociopath.
Signed,
a person who studied sociopathy/psychopathy as part of her doctoral program.
It's a real mind expander to see how many conspiracy theorists are among us--Ailes controls McGinniss' book, Crown is paying off Trudeau. So who paid off Andrew Sullivan to say 'The Rogue' was courageous journalism?
ReplyDeleteIt is very interesting to me that people are bringing up the Track Palin parentage with relation to Mr. McGinness and his clearly over-the-top reaction to it being brought up in his blog comment section. Perhaps you all know what I know. Mr. McGinness was the original source of that information, which he, in turn, shared with others. Those others should apparently not have been trusted, eh?
ReplyDeleteI'll read the book,but I'm sending no money into his coffers. I'll read my sister's since I canceled the Kindle edition I had had on order for months--and since he makes more on a Kindle purchase, I'm feeling okay. I've been a big Joe fan for years and somehow allowed myself to ignore the Malcolm article since the good doctor was deserving of no breaks. But his recent sabotage was not the act of a decent individual who holds himself to any standards.
ReplyDeleteIt will be interesting just how far he gets with Springsteen--a decent man,except for occasional philandering. A guy who is friends with Robert Coles is going to be familiar with the Malcolm article and might turn his back on this opportunist.
First of all I want to say that Gasman's response to No More Double Standard was right on.
ReplyDeleteSecond, I had planned to keep my pre-order of Joe's book in place, but after reading these comments, I have decided to cancel it. I don't care about his friendship with Ailes. I do care about his fake "friendship" with AKM and his betrayal of her and Bailey. I read Bailey's book and appreciated what he did reveal, realizing that he was holding back. That's sad and doesn't help legtimize his contrition, but it's not Jeanne's fault. I hope the authors do decide to sue Joe for damages. But the main reason I'm cancelling my order is that I don't think there is going to be anything new in the book. After following Palin's antics for three years,and learning that Joe didn't really read the blogs before starting his research, I think I probably know more about her than he does.
If, after it's out, we learn that there are tremendously valuable revelations in it, I'll be happy to eat a little crow and throw some money his way. For now, I felt he treated his blog visitors disrespectfully and clearly misused the manuscript of "Blind Ambition." (Note: while the authors might be amateurs (although Ken is not), the agent is a pro and she knows that you do not send out a manuscript with a confidentiality agreement - it is an inherent part of the publishing process. Including one WOULD be an amateur move).
Go Team Devon!
~physicsmom
@Anonymous. "there is little difference between Joe McGinnis and Sarah Palin"
ReplyDeleteThere is a big difference: she lies.
Imagine if Palin had leaked Bailey's book. No way she'd admit to it. But Joe's an honest "pain in the ass."
I look forward to buying and reading his book. I expect a compelling narrative woven from facts most of which I already know.
Whether Bailey and Devon are experienced authors or not, whether McGinniss is a PAID author or not, or whether or not McGinniss' project was well publicized or not is utterly irrelevant.
ReplyDeleteWhat is pertinent is that McGinniss can make no claims of intellectual property rights to the work of Bailey and Devon. None. To the extent that he devalued their work by distributing it without their express consent he should be held responsible.
No way would McGinniss allow his work to be widely disseminated for free prior to publication. To the extent that he did so with someone else's work he was wrong.
Seeing as how he can show no legal claim to the work of Bailey and Devon, I suspect that a civil court will likely see it that way, too.
10:45..maybe Gryphen, who has met Joe, knows more about what's going on than you do. He was there, we are just bystanders.
ReplyDeleteI am tired of talking about McGinnis. We know the next move, and that is the release in 13 days.
ReplyDeleteIt is great news about the Broomfield film, can't wait for an opportunity to see it.
What I would like to hear about is Fred's book and whether or not Anon238 has been in touch with Gryphen.
Jill @ 10:56,
ReplyDeleteJeanne herself said she considered Joe a friend. HER words. She asked his forgiveness in the email response to him finding out she had been working with Bailey for months. She signed that email "love".
And to those who keep referring to Joe nasty/mean comment about Jeanne's mother: She brought up her dead mother in a transparent attempt to garner sympathy with Joe because she clearly felt guilt (and maybe shame) at having deceived him. He simply called her out on this attempt to invoke her mother to pluck at his heartstrings. How is that being nasty? He said "Don't cheapen the word love. Nor your mother." Again, I ask: how is she angel for using her dead mother to gain sympathy, and he is an a-hole for calling her out on it? I simply do not get this line of thinking at all.
Anon@11:43 said: "I agree with others here who believe that Joe is using Gryphen just like he used Jeanne and others in the state of Alaska to further his own journalistic ambitions."
ReplyDeleteSo, Joe openly and transparently interviews people, with the open, transparent and stated reason to write a book about Sarah Palin which he has fully disclosed that he will make a profit from. This makes him unethical?
But Jeanne Devon, calling Joe a friend in her own words, secretly begins working on a Palin book behind his back, while continuing her friendship with Joe, and continuing to have privileged conversations with him about the content of his upcoming book, and that's okay? Really?
And just because she didn't use any information DIRECTLY that she gained from her friendship and conversations with Joe, that does not mean that information did not influence how they wrote BA, what they decided to put in or leave out, who they decided to interview, etc. There is no way that there was no influence at all.
Joe McGinnis was the original source of the info on Track? On what planet!? The Wasilla whispering gallery got kicked up on that story decades ago.
ReplyDeleteAll I can say is that my loyalties lie with AKM, and it looks like he screwed those three over knowlingly.
ReplyDeleteHow could he not have known that what he did might keep them from being published completely?
I will wait till his book shows up in the used book stores.
After all Alaskans are the ones who suffered under her and who told the world about her, why should he profit at their expense?
Maybe I'm just naive, but really? No one pays off Gary Trudeau.
ReplyDeleteHe's been around way too long, and he has way too much money to be paid off. And he doesn't give a damn about how many newspapers carry him, or what you think of him.
I don't give a damn about Joe, but when you start dissing Trudeau, I get riled, yes, I do.
Zeebus said...
ReplyDeleteTruth be told, Obama can do no wrong in liberals eyes. He can do no right in conservatives eyes.
6:44 AM
Well you got the second sentence correctly but the first one....
Everybody can choose what news sites and blogs they read, but you obviously do not read the ones frequented by Obama's base.
I'm not passing judgment, I'm just saying.
I feel sure that Ailes and Murdoch have a copy of Joe's book. My question is whether Palin will be shown as a Saint or a Devil, we shall soon find out.
ReplyDeleteSo did Joe give Gryphen a copy of his book?
6:56 AM
ReplyDeleteThat said, never judge a person, regardless of who they are and what they say or believe. YOU are humans have no right nor any accuracy to EVER judge another person.
********************************************************
Wrong. Since you are such a Sarah fan, you should know that her very bible tells us we should judge. "And ye shall know them by the fruit that the bear." All one has to do is to take a look at Sarah's foul mouth, hateful, arrogant words. All I need to see. However, there is more. But.....since your mind is closed why bother? You post totally missed it's mark with intelligent people. Why don't you post it at the C4P. They follow blindly. The intelligent folk at IM don't.
I never paid a lot of attention to Joe's blog but would visit it once in a while. I began to get the feeling that he was only using us to sell his book and since he stopped comments, he obviously stopped being interested in other's opinions.
ReplyDeleteIt is his blog and he can do what he wants to with it but it is clear he is not interested in in a conversation with others. He seems to be interested in preaching to us and blowing his own horn so I have written his site off and have no intention of buying his book.
I have a vague recollection that McG said he would be shutting down the comments on his blog on 9/1, or maybe it was 9/3, because he would be traveling. Does anyone else remember this (or am I channeling Sarah Palin & inventing my own reality?)
ReplyDeleteAnon @ 1:26 PM:
ReplyDeleteWas Jeanne to expose every private endeavor she was working on at the time she was communicating with Joe? He may have been open with her about what he was doing, but she was under no obligation (and in fact legally forbidden) to tell him what she was and wasn't doing regarding her book. When you say she did this 'behind his back' you imply that he was meant to know about all of her work regarding that project. From what I gather that was not a precondition of their friendship but more of a haughty expectation on his part. Just my opinion, of course.
Hmmmm......Reading this blog, several entries favorable to JM seem to be written by the same writer who wants to cast him in a good light. Not buying it, his book either. I put no faith that JM will bring Sarah down, he has never stated that that was his goal. But I do take exception with this who host a blog and then censor people who leave comments. What if someone censored him? His tone, when he was addressing commenters on his blog stinks too. So, whoever you are, writing nice sensible things and making favorable arguments for for Joe won"t help in my case as I don't like being treated like a puppet. Same thing Sarah does. I won't buy his book because of this.
ReplyDeleteWhat I know about Joe is from his blog and public literary reputation; never read any of his books. Same for AKM. From AKM I get the warm and fuzzes and a smile on my face; from Joe I do not.
ReplyDeleteBlogs DO make a difference with the people in my tiny sphere of influence. If the topic of Palin or Tea Party arises, I have LOTS to say that makes my audience go HMMMM. One person at a time to another person. I don't write books or blog or have any political or otherwise influential power. I do voice what I believe and back it up with facts and sources, inviting others to do the same.
Do I know the TRUTH? Probably not. As a friend once put it, "It's hell to play God." Do I have opinions? Hell, yes. We're all in this together. And one thing I am thankful for: I can change my mind.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAnon @ 2:28 You are being ridiculously disingenuous. You said: "Was Jeanne to expose every private endeavor she was working on at the time she was communicating with Joe? He may have been open with her about what he was doing, but she was under no obligation (and in fact legally forbidden) to tell him what she was and wasn't doing regarding her book. When you say she did this 'behind his back' you imply that he was meant to know about all of her work regarding that project. From what I gather that was not a precondition of their friendship but more of a haughty expectation on his part. Just my opinion, of course."
ReplyDeleteJeanne considered Joe a friend. He considered her a friend. It's not that Joe was or wasn't "meant to know about of her work regarding that project" (I assume you mean the Bailey book), it's that she chose to sign on to that project while continuing to have a cozy personal relationship with someone she called "friend" who was writing a book on the same subject, unbeknownst to that "friend." BEHIND HIS BACK. Your argument would hold water if Jeanne had been honest with Joe that she was working on something of her own about Palin, so that he could have chosen to put an end to the inside information he had been sharing with her about his own book. She didn't have to give him details. She didn't have to tell him it was Bailey's book. And, most importantly, she didn't HAVE to sign that non-disclosure agreement!!! She CHOSE to sign it because she wanted to help write a a book about Palin in return for a profit. That is not in and of itself wrong. What is wrong is that she DID betray and deceive someone that SHE CALLED a FRIEND.
Emails written by Joe McGinniss and Jeanne Devon regarding Joe's discovery that Jeanne co-wrote "blind Alligience:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.truth-out.org/sites/default/files/McG.pdf
Comic book alert! Somebody take advantage and do a series on The Blog Wars.
ReplyDeleteObviously the purpose of many here is to make online 'friends' instead of taking on the Twitter Quitter. I don't think Gryphen's aim is to make 'friends' through his blog, and it definitely was not Joe's.
I have seen way too much of the middle school clique mentality on the anti-palin blogs. Do you not see that you are doing the same things scarah does?
O/T somewhat and haven't read all comments but look at article over at Redstate
ReplyDeleteThe Unbearable Lightness of Being Sarah Palin/
http://www.redstate.com/leon_h_wolf/2011/09/07/the-unbearable-lightness-of-being-sarah-palin/
Wow!
3:23: This is 2:28.. I hear ya. If you think I was disingenuous in my argument I can honestly say I wasn't trying to be. I was just telling it as I see it which is. I guess we can at least agree that we disagree on this one. Wasn't trying to rile your feathers..
ReplyDeletePeace.
Trying to understand why my posts are showing up. I haven't posted anything negative. I submitted info on a Redstate article that was another conservative journalist/blogger indicating Palin a has been.
ReplyDeleteWhat give?
Joe is "Sarah with a brain" - I agree completely. They both do what they do for the money, they are narcissists, they are ready to throw their closest friends and colleagues under the bus for personal gain.
ReplyDeleteWhat 7:18 is exactly the same way I feel, thanks for your comment
ReplyDelete___________________________________
"No to Double Stadards" @ 6:56
I have to respectfully disagree with your manifesto. (Kvetch, much?)
It's a false equvalency to compare the Epic Loser to any of those women. They worked hard to get where they are, they took their lumps, pulled up their bootstraps, and actually l-e-a-r-n-e-d from their mistakes, and rebuilt their careers and businesses.
What has the Epic Loser done? Seriously, name me ONE thing she's learned from her past and improved upon, (and winking, hatefilled facebook rants, ghostwritten rehashing grudges, getting paid for speeches, and stringing people like you along to make money don't count)
HOLD SARAH PALIN'S FEET TO THE FIRE, before YOU judge President Obama, then we'll talk about "Double Stadards"
Wake up, The Epic Loser's "God" is "Money".
Go sell your sermon on someone else's mount, I'm not buying it.
Anita Winecooler
FrostyAK said...
ReplyDeleteAs for the kerfluffle between the Three Blind Allegiencers and McG, let the courts handle it. When amateurs try to play in the same league as professionals, they often find themselves alone in left field.
Well said, and isn't Three Blind Allegiencers a more polite name than some others that start with with Three (Nyuk, Nyuk, Nyuk).!?
Should the three decide to take it to the courts, some interesting questions might be the subject of discovery. When did the state first become aware of this book effort? When did the authors first submit either the manuscript or the emails to the State? Did the previously mentioned confidentiality agreement mention any state approval process? Did any other contract between the three mention a state approval process? If there was an agreement between any of the authors and the state, who handled the negotiations?
There are a number of different scenarios, some more interesting than others.
"Trying to understand why my posts are showing up. I haven't posted anything negative. I submitted info on a Redstate article that was another conservative journalist/blogger indicating Palin a has been.
ReplyDeleteWhat give?
4:44 PM"
Approval sometimes takes a while- hours if he is off interviewing someone important. Your comment with link is up also too now.
Curioser said, "It's a real mind expander to see how many conspiracy theorists are among us--Ailes controls McGinniss' book, Crown is paying off Trudeau. So who paid off Andrew Sullivan to say 'The Rogue' was courageous journalism?"
ReplyDeleteAnd that's just the beginning. Most of the versions I'm reading here of what happened on Joe's blog are flat out untruths. In the beginning there were a few emotional people who got their feelings hurt. The truth is that some people are so invested in these blogs that they cannot abide anyone with a different opinion or who chooses to not be part of the "pack." They were speaking in terms like "we" and "us" as if we were all some united group that all thinks the same and it's us against Palin and anyone else "they" deem a troll or enemy of the "cause." Well Joe was polite but direct and asked them what they were talking about. I wanted to know too, because I didn't sign up for any mob. These folks made themselves known and carried that chip on their shoulder to all the other blogss. And then still continued to comment at Joe's, usually to antagonize.
Now I am reading flat out lies about what Joe said or about his blog and comments that are just plain malicious. It's either that or some people are really stupid and lack reading skills and comprehension! The things being said, quite frankly, are petty and mean and have no purpose other than to trash a person.
To tell you the truth the crowd here is starting to resemble a t-party type crowd-lacking awareness, intolerant, loud, mean and not interested in facts. Those are the commenters who will chase away/turn off newcomers that might arrive from books/movies this month.
It doesn't matter and I don't care if you give a shit what I think. But Joe DID speak the truth and that is that you DO need to think beyond this and any other blog. Because right now the bullshit lying, sulking and lack of facts and reality here is really dragging this Blog down further and further. And that is a shame.
7:50
ReplyDeleteRe: key pendant
She wore the same key around her neck with the big honking Star of David. Google "Key of David" and Wiki it also. It's a symbol used by people of the Jewish Faith and symbolizes, among other things, the key to Israel as a homeland, and The Key that granted them freedom from slavery and persecution.
It's also used by dominionists, She's been wearing it alone, and though I doubt she's capable of remorse or owning up that the "blood libel" comparison was outrageously wrong, I think she's trying to endear herself to both religions.
It's a use of symbolism that's often bothered me, she's not of jewish descent nor practices the religion of Judaism, yet proudly wears the symbols they hold dear, i guess, to show her support for Israeli statehood.
Two google's that are snarky and funny:
Santorum
Bristol Stool Chart (especially the photos)
Blogs, when well done, are an excellent source of information, as evidenced by I.M, Gryphen is a pro blogger, and would probably make a great journalist and or author.
ReplyDeleteJoe's sole purpose of his blog, as evidnenced by all the comments pro and con, is to get people talking, to promote the book. Did he release snippets from his book? Yes, a few teasers. Did he get people talking? Promote his book? Yes.
The kerffufle is between he and Jeanne, and it should be played out in the courts.
I'm not disparagaging nor condemning people who decide not to buy or read the book, but it's a bit silly if you think about it. Do we really know the personal lives of the authors of books we read? And should it matter to us? I've read his work for years, my father used to follow him in the Philly Inqirer, and I wish I could find them, they were truly gems! I read some of his other books, and found them fascinating and informative. Even read his son's first book, though it's different in style, he does great work as well. I'm not cancelling his book. I read all the anti palin books, and they all serve a purpose. I think Joe must have a lot more to say because he spent so much time researching and immersing himself in the effort. And I'm sure it wasn't on someone else's dime, nor was it easy by any stretch. He's not a blogger, and I think he felt overwhealmed having to read all the comments. I do hope he opens it again so we can all go there and kvetch and nitpick.
Some of the comments, translated loosely, make the argument sound silly, like This:
While I usually read books by authors who sleep on their sides and use breathe right nasal stips, while making their beds with 400 thread count egyptian cotton sheets in crisp white. I'm going to make an exception, just this once, and read a book by a back sleeper who snores and uses 200 count percale print sheets. Or I'll just use the library. Joe doesn't deserve to make money as an author, but I'll read it free. And I'll hate every damn minute of it"
6:56 Never judge? What planet are you on? Judging is a bit different than discourse and most people on this blog have a dog in this fight to keep unqualified and dishonest people from ascending to office. No matter who they are. Discourse does involve opinion. I am rather tired of the “we are human” excuse as a way to avoid discussion. Are you suggesting we humans just suck it up and keep making mistakes (I guess just because we are human ... ) and avoid discussions that might help us avoid mistakes?
ReplyDeleteF*** off 7:14 PM. That is all. :)
ReplyDeleteOh and 8:21 PM? F*** you too...
ReplyDeleteDoing a bit of slumming, are we, Joe?
ReplyDeleteIf you had access to emails confirming that Palin broke laws ag governor, would you:
ReplyDeleteA: keep the info between you and your buddies to write a book and try to profit
or
B: go to the authorities with the proof, expose the law-breaking and try to ensure Palin & Bailey pay for their crimes?
I will not be buying this book. I don't approve of the way Joe McGinniss has handled this whole affair.
ReplyDeleteBlue_in_AK
Sounds just like Scarah:
ReplyDeleteHedley had better not[snip]
If he does, I’ll have my pal fire the son of a bitch.
Trust me: it’s great to have friends in high places.
http://www.joemcginniss.net/air-quotes-im-sure-hedley-misunderstood/Joe%20McGinniss
I'm a little disappointed that some of the commenters seem to be saying that whatever Joe M may have done is not of interest so long as his book helps to bring down Palin.
ReplyDeleteIf we don't care whether he is ethical, why do we care whether Sarah is ethical?