So there you have it.
The only reason that people assume that things are perfectly created are those people too stupid or lacking in curiosity to investigate the truth.
And if that explanation was too hard to follow, or you just like your dismantling of the Creationist's argument to be more humorous, here is Louis CK's smackdown. Less "science-y" but perhaps more satisfying.
He makes sense!
ReplyDeleteInterestingly, Thomas Aquinas proposed a view that became, in later, less intelligent iterations "intelligent design" as argument in favor of sustainable mutation of living creatures and against the apparently commonly held view that all species were created at the same time- think Sarah Palin's silly notion that dinosaurs and man existed together.
ReplyDeleteFrom Aquinas' Physica: The same thing is true of those substances which Empedocles said were produced at the beginning of the world, such as the ‘ox-progeny’, i.e., half ox and half man. For if such things were not able to arrive at some end and final state of nature so that they would be preserved in existence, this was not because nature did not intend this [a final state], but because they were not capable of being preserved. For they were not generated according to nature, but by the corruption of some natural principle, as it now also happens that some monstrous offspring are generated because of the corruption of seed.
264. He gives the second argument where he says, ‘Further, seed must have ...’ (199 b 8). The argument is as follows.
Wherever there are determinate principles and a determinate order of proceeding, there must be a determinate end for the sake of which other things come to be. But in the generation of animals there is a determinate order of proceeding. For it is necessary that seed come to be first, and there is no animal which exists immediately from the beginning. And the seed itself is not immediately hardened, but in the beginning it is soft and tends toward perfection in a certain order. Therefore, there is a determinate end in the generation of animals. Therefore, monsters and errors do not occur in animals because nature does not act for the sake of something.
I don't think Aquinas would have disagreed with Darwin as much as the Fundies might think.
There were times when the Church was pro-science- i.e. when the learned view held that nature was consistent in its variations and thus capable of being understood by man through the use of intellect.
That was fun. I know a retired professor who would point out some of the scariest, nastiest organisms that kill in horrid ways (there is some nematode that was one of his favorites)and then shrug and say that either god is a psycho or god is not involved in evolution. Or there is no god.
ReplyDeleteHere is an example of a weekly science geek column the prof used to write...http://www.northcoastjournal.com/outdoors/2007/09/27/my-strange-plant-encounter/
ReplyDeleteYou could tell the woman in the yellow sweater was a creationist. She was not amused one bit.
ReplyDelete5:50 AM
ReplyDeleteI was thinking the same thing. Especially because by that point I was rolling as he talked about having an entertainment center near the play/fun zone
I enjoyed the video (plus he got me to laugh. An extra bonus).
ReplyDeleteThanks, Gryphen.
Entertainment complex amid a sewage system. Hilarious.
ReplyDeleteIntelligent design would not have spelled "crockodiles"..........
ReplyDeleteDe grasse is a national treasure because he is clearly quite educated and yet speaks so clearly and is so approachable in his talks. He shows the humorous side of science.
ReplyDeleteThat guy did not explain why I am still here.
ReplyDeleteNot even a hint as to what grabbed my shoulder and shook me awake after falling asleep behind the wheel. I was driving 55 mph on a two lane highway through the woods late one night. It was a tight grip and a hard shake, too, and when I woke I was on the wrong side of road going up a hill and as soon as I moved back into my lane as I was about to reach the top, an 18 wheeler topped that hill.
Years later, it happened again when I was driving 75 mph on the expressway going to the doctor. I was on mega medication because of a neck injury. Between the medication and bright sunshine, I fell asleep and once again, something grabbed my shoulder and shook me awake.
Then there were two other times, well, I'll just say folks can believe what they want. But for me, I believe in God and in guardian angels with tight grips, with ironclad faith.
I don't have any answers to all the whys, but I do believe there are other worlds out there somewhere.
I love science. My work often involves the use of scientific principles. I am fascinated by evolution. I teach environmental education. And I despise the concepts of creationism and intelligent design.
ReplyDeleteI posted this on my FB profile because a) I love Neil de Grasse b) that was funny as heck and, c) I love to piss off my Creationist friends - maybe they'll de-friend me after this one though.
Yet, I am also spiritual. I think the problem I have with most organized religions and those that are fervent devotees is that they expect God to do all and be all for their personal gain. That's not my understanding of "god" at all. I view "god" (I put that in quotes as the concept of the divine is varied and large and cannot be contained in a 3 letter descriptive word) as a good parent. He has given us the tools, and the love and guidance a good parent gives his children, then he lets us have FREE WILL to navigate this unstable, unpredictable, harsh and crazy world we live in. When I pray it is not for someone to solve all my problems, give me something I haven't earned, or smite my enemies; but rather to give me the guidance, strength and wisdom to overcome challenges, be successful and survive. But you won't find many modern churches teaching such a concept as that doesn't make a whole lot of money to keep them fat.
9:10 - Destroy your driver's license--you're a danger to others. And buy a good book on logic to read in the passenger seat of a vehicle driven by someone who can stay awake at the wheel.
ReplyDeletecuriouser, I have had a perfect driving record for over forty years, not even a speeding ticket. I almost had an accident and something caused me to jilt wide awake. Falling asleep at the wheel is rather common, although I agree dangerous, but there is no need to disrespect me because I shared my story.
ReplyDeleteTotal randomness doesn't fit will with the usual Judeochristian idea of God's Plan.
ReplyDeleteIt is particularly true since that same randomness that gave the universe the blue planet and H. sapiens, also destroys everything it creates.
That doesn't fit well with that exceptionalism we like to claim.
I think "Intelligent Design" as a political movement was destroyed by Judge Jones's opinion in the Kitzmiller v. Dover School District:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.pamd.uscourts.gov/kitzmiller/kitzmiller_342.pdf
The PBS program "Judgment Day" about the Kitzmiller case is also excellent:
http://www.shoppbs.org/product/index.jsp?productId=2950515&cp=&sr=1&kw=judgment+day&origkw=judgment+day&parentPage=search
And in a bit of grotesque, inappropriate self promotion, here's my attack on the Sarah Palin version of intelligent design, "Designer Desperately Seeking Intelligence--Will Travel:"
http://samsamdat.blogspot.com/2009/12/designer-desperately-seeing.html
What a blast from the past! I had a prof in college who had the same style of teaching. I loved this clip, and searched You Tube- there's more clips. Shame they have to close the comments, would like to read people's thoughts and reactions.
ReplyDeletehedgewycke @10:47 I feel the same way- great comment and observations!
Here's another great one of his on religion and progression
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oxTMUTOz0w&feature=player_embedded#!