This argument drives me crazy!
Creationism is NOT science, period! It offers no data to examine, nor theories to discuss. All that it does is attempt to poke holes in evolution by making up terms like irreducible complexity, or misstating the Second Law of Thermodynamics, and then, knowing full well that their target audience is too ignorant and uninterested to double check their "facts," use these deceptions to "prove" that Evolution is not good science.
By the way, the same scientific criteria applied to every other scientific discipline is also applied to evolution, but oddly enough you NEVER hear about those scientific disciplines being challenged as often, and as relentlessly, as evolution.
And the reason why is simple. Because their research does not seem to directly challenge the Christian faith. (Though to be fair, many of them actually do, but the average person of faith is not aware that Anthropology, Cosmology, Archeology, and many others are also problematic as it relates to their view of reality.)
By the way Bachamnn did not get away with this BS unscathed, and in fact was challenged during her Q and A by a student.
Courtesy of Crooks and Liars:
A student from Bancroft, Iowa, who identified himself as a Catholic, explained to Bachmann that there was big difference between a "theory" like intelligence design and a "scientific theory" like evolution.
"The idea of creationism by an intelligent designer is not scientific," he said. "It is pseudo-science. There is no hard evidence that says that God created Earth. There is nothing like that. Whereas, we have physicists, chemists, biologists, many other people in the science field that say this is how the Earth was created, this is how the universe was created. ... How can you say that creationism can be taught in a public school where this would actually increase the combining of church and state?"
And Bachmann's response to this very bright young man?
"I think what you are advocating for is censorship on the part of government," Bachmann replied. "I want all facts on the table. ... Why would we forestall any particular theory? Because I don't think that evolutionists, by and large, say that evolution is a proven fact. They say that this is a theory as well as intelligent design."
"So I think intellectually, the best thing to do is to allow all scientific facts on the table and let students decide."
Censorship? Bachmann believes that if her particular superstitious belief is not included in the science classroom, that indicates that the government is utilizing censorship?
What this imbecile fails to recognize is that this is NOT just a question of evolution vs creationism. There are numerous creation myths, WHY should only the Christian version be introduced into public schools?
How about the Japanese creation story? Or the Egyptian creation story? Or one of the numerous African creation stories?
Once you open the door to placing unscientific mythologies in the same category as well documented, peer reviewed science, where does it stop?
Should Astrology be taught in the same classroom as Astronomy? Should Dianetics be taught alongside Psychology? How about teaching stork based childbirth alongside human procreation?
To borrow a line from Keith Olbermann, that was usually directed at another anti-education female politician, "That woman is an idiot!"
Palin on Hannity tonight:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.foxnews.com/on-air/
hannity/index.html#/v/13053445
32001/battle-to-court-conservat
ive-voters-heats-up/?playlist_id=86924
The part that should be argued is her comment that she wants all facts on the table. Fair enough, but intelligent design and creationism are beliefs not facts.
ReplyDeleteanon@6:38
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone care? LOL
You cannot reason with people who are stubborn as mules, dumb as rocks, and believe that God is on their side. What is hilarious is these people want their version of God taught in schools, but they are also the flag worshipping crazies. hate to tell them, but either you worship your God above everything including country, or you are not a very committed Christian (although people like Bachmann and Robertson should BE committed.)
ReplyDeleteI just love debating with these people. I once got a Christianist going by vehemently agreeing with her that we needed to put prayer back in the schools. They LOVE to be agreed with, so then I said, "And there's nothing like starting off the school week with a good solid Christian prayer."
ReplyDeleteTo which she agreed again.
Then I said, "And on Tuesday we'll have a Jewish prayer, then on Wednesday a Muslim prayer, Thursday will be for Buddhist prayers, and Friday we can end off with a Shinto prayer! Isn't God wonderful!!!"
She stomped off. But hey, at least she finally shut up.
I agree, creationism is not a science and should never be referred to as a scientific theory
ReplyDeleteThe other major problem I have with what she said is that the decision whether or not to teach creationism should by up to the States and school districts. By allowing decisions to be made at the local level, evangelicals know that school systems in areas such as the South are likely to allow creationism to be taught, and it is a stepping stone to get the rest of the country on board. The other problem with that is it makes enforcing laws for the separation of church and state more difficult. This is the strategy the evangelicals have turned to in order to get religion in the classroom.
blechmann campaign steals homeschool email list:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/01/michele-bachmann-2012-iowa-homeschool-email-list_n_1123815.html?ref=politics
I guess whilst trying to stick up for teaching about God in schools 'lil micky forgot about that whole "thou shalt not steal" thingy.
Reality challenged AND ethically challenged. Pure gop....
And Megan McCain was gushing about how Bachmann was the "smart Sarah Palin" on NOW with Alex Wagner today. Megan crooned that having met Bachmann, "I just love her." Also too Megan intoned, "Michele is more smarter than Palin."
ReplyDeleteDefinite proof that Megan McCain was descended from a lower form of life.
6:51, you left out Palin as one of the person who should be committed.
ReplyDelete@ 3:00 Palin mentions Shailey Tripp on Hannity.
ReplyDeletefull interview
http://www.therightscoop.com/
sarah-palin-the-race-is-still-very-fluid/
Creationism is not a science. It is a philosophy. The arguments may discuss scientific facts, but the approach is not scientific.
ReplyDeleteScience is based on testing of hypotheses. No where is there any testing to support creationism.
It is essentially the null position. If something cannot be explained then God did it. That is not science.
Well said, wakeUpAmerica (@6:48) well said - and so very true.
ReplyDeleteThank you.
O/T: I am getting a kick out of all the google ads popping up on your blog about dating men over 50. :-)
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of Japanese and idiots in our government,this is utterly disgusting.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.businessinsider.com/the-medias-blackout-of-the-national-defense-authorization-act-is-shameful-2011-12
Check out this twitter feed where I found the above article:
http://mobile.twitter.com/williambanzai7
williambanzai7 rt @americablog: Occupy Montreal protesters "branded" by police with numbers "in" their skin americablog.com/2011/12/occupy… about 1 hour ago
williambanzai7 WATCH STICKER flic.kr/p/aP43g8 about 1 hour ago
williambanzai7 TERRORIST NOTICE (CIRCA 1942) flic.kr/p/aP3wp8 about 2 hours ago
williambanzai7 RETURN TO MANZANAR flic.kr/p/aP3pmr about 2 hours ago
williambanzai7 FRANK LUNTZ flic.kr/p/aNRNnc about 2 hours ago
williambanzai7 NDAA: LAND OF THE FREE flic.kr/p/aP3iJz about 2 hours ago
williambanzai7 Visual Poem: LAND OF THE FREE flic.kr/p/aP39wn about 2 hours ago
Anyone remember our shameful treatment of the Americans of Japanese descent? Who is next for the internment camps? The branding? The tasering? The pepper spraying?
nswfm
And speaking of McCain:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/%3F-older-posts-us-says-americans-are-military-targets-war-terror-%E2%80%A6-and-prez-alone-can-dec
I hope this NDAA is vetoed, because watch out if the nuts get into power.
nswfm
I just love how she skirts the issue with the curtain of "censorship". This argument could be applied to the belief that aliens from space inhabited the earth (which might explain Bachmann more than evolution the science and Intelligent Design, the fairy tale).
ReplyDeleteLeaving it to the state or the school system is her only cop out, and a weak one at that.
Anon@7:54. The ads reflect the cookies on your machine, i.e., they reflect your browsing interests. I don't see any.
ReplyDeleteThere are hundreds if not thousands of scientific controversies, and I really don't think presenting them to elementary/middle/secondary students is going to resolve them. But then in Bachmann's world, you don't actually resolve things at all, you just decide which side of the issue you want to believe and no mas problemo. BTW, has anyone seen the latest experimental results from the Creation lab? Really, me neither, and I'm just all atwitter with anticipation.
ReplyDeleteI just love it when Bachmann tries to sound educable. I think Matt Taibbi described her best when he told of bumping into a man outside Penn Station who was huffing glue from a paper bag. "I swear," said Matt, "he was making more sense than Michele Bachmann."
And here's Michele's own description of her science aptitude:
-I just take the bible for what it is, I guess, and recognize that I am not a scientist, not trained to be a scientist. I'm not a deep thinker on all of this. [Wow, shocker that one.] I wish I was. I wish I was more knowledgeable, but I'm not a scientist.
-Carbon dioxide is portrayed as harmful. But there isn't even one study that can be produced that shows that carbon dioxide is harmful gas. [Besides the volumes of climatological data on the subject hidden in libraries so people like Bachmann won't find them, the reason no "clean coal" test project has ever been undertaken is that until the Feds grant some corp a license to kill hundreds, thousands, or even tens of thousands of people with legal immunity, the prospect of a Bopal-type event where an escaping cloud of carbon dioxide engulfs a community, especially at night when there's a temperature inversion and people are sleeping, presents a prohibitive liability issue.]
-A woman was healthy. There was brain damage, there was no question. But from a health point of view, she was not terminally ill. [The woman, of course, was Terri Schiavo, who after full cardiac arrest, suffered massive brain damage due to a lack of oxygen and, and, after two and a half months in a coma, Drs. elevated her diagnosis to vegetative state. [Who, other than Michele Bachmann, would refer to a person in a vegetative state as "healthy"? Most of the righties, including Bush43. But of course if she had done something to give them an excuse to declare her less righteous than they, they'd have murdered her in a heartbeat. You know, 'cause that would be the Christian thing to do.]
A few more snickers straight from the horse's ass:
-And what a bizarre time we're in, when a judge will say to little children that you can't say the pledge of allegiance, but you must learn that homosexuality is normal and you should try it.
-Not all cultures are equal.
And this very special gem, which shows why she's in Washington helpin' to run things:
-If we took away the minimum wage, if conceivably it was gone, we could potentially virtually wipe out unemployment completely because we would be able to offer jobs at whatever level. [And there you have the solution to unemployment, straight from a reliable corporate whore.]
And there's more! at http://www.michelebachmannsaidwhat.com/
Michele Bachmann should be responsible for nothing more important than a cup of jello and a plastic spoon.
Michelle Bachmann is a fucking moron. Seriously, I've known cocker spaniels that were demonstrably smarter than her and more articulate. I've encountered invertebrates that could best her in a debate. How is it that somebody this unbelievably imbecilic can POSSIBLY be taken seriously by ANYBODY as a candidate for president?
ReplyDeleteGoddamn, isn't anyone in the GOP embarrassed by this vapid cow?
I knew it was going to be interesting to see what the GOP/Tea Party was going to come up with to run against President Obama, but with "candidates" such as Bachman, Perry, Cain, Gingrich, and the rest of the forgettables, this has gone from comedy to the Twilight Zone.
ReplyDeleteI will say up front that I am a Christian, but I am also a scientist (BS in Wildlife from UAF). That said, I think intelligent design can be taught in schools - in a theology class. Just as math is taught in math class, and (real) science is taught in science class.
ReplyDeleteO/T: I am getting a kick out of all the google ads popping up on your blog about dating men over 50. :-)
ReplyDelete7:54 PM
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I'm fairly certain the which google ad that you see on a blog is dependent upon the cookies on your own computer and that each view sees a different one depending on which types of sites they most frequent
Bachmann and Palin are equals on the low intelligence scale but Bachmann is able to fool a few more people because her voice isn't nearly as annoying and screechy as Palin's nor are her looks quite as dated and harsh. Neither should be advising anyone about anything outside of those in their immediate family. There is no shortage of cringe factor among the male candidates either. Gingrich takes the life award for pompous windbag and I'd love to lock the lot of them up in the same room for a couple weeks so they could finally see how distorted and irritating they are.
ReplyDeletei would love to see religions compared in school...all religions. they're all pretty interesting. it would be an elective subject, no grades, just for those who are interested. none of this religious christian twisted ideology dominating our country.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 7:23
ReplyDeleteI too was shocked by Meghan McCain's comments on Bachmann. To think that she is being paid by a so called "liberal" network, with her lack of anything to offer, and inability to speak in sentences with proper grammer is proof our system is unhinged.
Creationism, or Intelligent Design (its hotty totty name)is not only NOT a scientific theory, it is not a theory at all. One commenter pegged it. It is philosophy. A theory has to have data. Good data. Consistent data. Lots of data. Even scientific theories like evolution didn't start out as theories. They started out as hypotheses. Creationism isn't even a hypothesis, because a hypothesis is essentially a framework for collecting data. Creationism is a crock, plain and simple. There is no data, there is no hypothesis. There is NO THEORY. It is an agenda-based conglomeration of pseudo-scientific mumbo jumbo created to present the bible as fact.
ReplyDeleteIf ID is forced into the school system, I think paganism should be the prevailing theory as a possible explanation.
ReplyDeleteAt least that religion has both a male and female deity. It comes closer to resembling the natural world around us.
"Making up" a term like Irreducible Complexity? Really? If you don't know what it means, please use google.
ReplyDeleteYou can take sides, but don't make a fool of yourself, Gryphen.
IC is a serious problem that no one has solved, and has nothing to do with any creation story, be it Egyptian or whatever.
"So I think intellectually, the best thing to do is to allow all scientific facts on the table and let students decide."
ReplyDeleteI absolutely agree, especially at the HS and above levels. Now, Michelle, lets talk about what is required to be a "scientific fact". I don't think you have that concept down.
Hooray, for the student who does understand the difference!
Wake-up and smell the coffee!
ReplyDeleteThis entire dog and pony show of GOP Presidential candidates is merely a smoke screen for something else.
The important question is WHAT are we being disctracted FROM?
Hmmm. . . . "Put all of the scientific facts on the table" and "let the students decide." I guess there will be no need for teachers in Michele (one "l") land. Like another Republican woman we all know, what an idiot!
ReplyDelete