I already have my own horror stories about what these stories did to me.
But I invite you to share your stories, whether pro or con, about how it felt for YOU when you heard this from your parents, pastor, or religious friends.
I would also like to hear whether or not you feel this is abuse. And if not, why not?
I couldn't bet past the first self-loathing thirty seconds. "Welcome to the world, kid. God and I recognize that you're a piece of shit, but if you agree to be brainwashed we can make you a robot instead."
ReplyDeleteGood grief...
"Someday, when you're old enough to understand, you must trust Jesus."
ReplyDeleteJudging from that Focus on the Family commercial (played during the game where Tebowing happened fewer times than Tebow planking on the turf) "old enough to understand" is 4 years.
When one person has an imaginary friend.. he is considered insane.
ReplyDeleteWhen millions have an imaginary friend.. they call it religion.
We need go back to the good old days (1500's)... when the Catholic church got millions of new believers with their "convert or die" policy.
I had to hit pause at 34 seconds-that is cringe-inducing.
ReplyDeleteMorgan at 4:39 either never went through that brainwashing, and therefore can't conceive that it's very real, or went through it all too well.
ReplyDeleteI went through it. 12 years of Catholic school. Fortunately for me my high school was liberal, taught me to think for myself, and ended up liberating me from the yoke (which I don't think was the intention, the intention was for me to see how great Catholicism was compared to all the other systems once I was exposed to them as well, but hey, shit happens).
In grade school? Among other either things, I remember watching film strips when I was in the 2nd or third grade showing souls in torment in hell, with the admonition that that could be us.
That stands out to me, but that was so much the norm that few other things do. It was just constantly drummed into us that God was ready, willing and able to drop kick us to hell or purgatory (THAT's where Catholics show fundies to be amateurs) if we died with the stain of sin (mortal = hell; venial = purgatory) on our souls. Oh and if we had a baby brother or sister who died before being baptized? Limbo, baby.
I actually did used to question to myself how it made sense that the god they told us in one breath was so loving, could condemn us to hell for eternity. Then I would quickly try to unthink the thought! Because for Catholics, the thought was equal to the deed. If you even thought about it, you might as well go ahead and do it because as far as God was concerned, you were already guilty.
If you've ever listened to any of George Carlin's Catholic school routines... I can't tell you true those ring to me.
I think nothing better defines the concept of cognitive dissonance than the way in which the victims of senseless religious brainwashing cling to it and call it good.
But considering the centuries of horrors these religious belief systems, especially Christianity, have led to, I would say they are the biggest joke EVER played on poor defenseless humans by Satan. If I believed in Satan.
From day one a person is lied to..Believing is basically an insurance policy..
ReplyDeleteI don't get who made this piece? I went to thethinkingathiest.com and found what I think is a Christian website.
ReplyDeleteYes, this video is awful, but I don't understand it. Please explain to me who/what/etc. Thanks.
Growing up in a very "low church" Episcopal parish, there was only the concept of a loving God. We were urged to "let your light so shine, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father, which is in heaven."
ReplyDeleteThe idea of a Father in heaven comes and goes, but the lesson of doing good works and loving my neighbor has made me a liberal, a compassionate one, I hope.
Telling small children that they are sinful and evil is abuse!
hi God,
ReplyDeleteIt's good to know that though I'm only 1 day old, you have a plan for me.
It's nice to know you're teaching me low self-esteem, and that I'm completely corrupt, awful, and no good for anything. I guess my entire being is bad, and that my desires for anything human are sinful
It's so good to know that just by breathing , I'm guilty, and I have to live my life by a human compiled ancient book, subject to bad interpretation by other fallen humans. And just for "fun", I then find out there are hundreds of types of "christians" who all say "Our church is the only right one", further adding to my total confusion.
It's nice to know I have to give 10% of my total lifetime income to a total group of strangers who will use it to drive around in Cadillacs, live in much nicer houses than I have, and give no accounting of what's done with that money. I guess I'll have to work more, won't I?
Gee golly, it's also so helpful that my pastor seems to know all about what I should avoid, who I must vote for, what books I'm allowed to read, the kind of music I have to listen to, and that all sex is bad forever, always.
It's so nice to know that however confused, ignorant, corrupt I am, I must try to convince all others to abandon their own ideas and beliefs, and demand that they adhere to my own limited understanding of a god I can't see, touch, or really understand.
It's really encouraging that if I just can't take dealing with the hypocrisy, ignorance, and corruption all around me, and I don't continue on with this religion, I will be roasted alive.
Thanks God, I'm so happy to be alive.
One more thing. Has anyone else noticed when the evangelicals speak they do if from the eyes of America?
ReplyDeleteWhy don't the prosperity preachers go and sell their hope to the citizens of Calcutta or some of the other poor areas of the world...
Believeeeee people...Rise up... Why doesn't Creflo, Pat, Joel or TD etc. go to Syria and lead the people to the promised land..
Religion is easy in the United States..
I have too many horror stories dealing with religion to pick just one.
ReplyDeleteInstead, I'd like to commend and to thank the person who produced this video! I would love to have it be shown in churches across America. I think this one piece alone would help thousands who were like me at one time. Confused and frustrated by trying to make myself the bible was true, when all evidence and logic pointed out that it was a mythology.
The older I get I see, that this has been a way to control the masses all through time. Now all these commericals on how " Let God pick your mate" (dating site) or God is making Tebow a good football player. Don't they ever use their brain to see how stupid this sounds? MY question is why would God worry about these stupid things, but let sex offenders kill and mame children and women everyday, and do nothing to help??? Everyday we hear about women or children dissapearing Why is God not telling where these women and children are,or giving special hints or abilities to help them? Afterall we had at least 3 politicans tell us God told them to run for president. Ppl need to use their brain and ask questions instead of blindly believing what someone else tells them. In the early times the commomer was not allowed to read the bible (only the priests and Kings were allowed, and they killed ppl who didn't go aalong with them. Now here we go again, Race to be stupid. Want all teachers to be tested constantly, but it's okay to let uneducated parents homeschool children. Uneducated ppl are easier to control. Race to no science. They might lose control if ppl beleive in science. If ppl believe in science , the Corp might not be able to rape, pillige and ruin the earth.
ReplyDeleteWow, after watching that, if I believed in god, I'd start questioning my beliefs :)
ReplyDeleteI never heard any of this drivel from my parents, because although they were brought up in a protestant faith, they did not go to church. Instead, we spent our Sundays in the mountains, at our cabin, hiking and playing outdoors. My father told us we were probably closer to god there than we were in some church listening to someone tell their own version of what god was and what he wanted. My parents encouraged us to find our own beliefs. One sister found god as a teenager, became a Pentecostal, and her entire life revolved around god and the church for 10 years. She became disillusioned with the church, divorced her husband, and became a Pagan. The rest of us never went to church, never believed in a higher entity. We are all good, compassionate, professional people, who have all raised children who are educated, productive young adults. None of them are Christian :)
Well, if I had been given that as an initiation tape, I would have gotten very depressed.
ReplyDeleteBut, it wasn't presented that way to me, and I did have a clear experience that God is real, and He did show himself in miraculous ways to me in my life. It didn't take a long time to know there was sin in the world when I was sometimes the brunt of that sin (bullied). Or it didn't take anyone teaching me that yes, there were mean people. I withdrew from them and wanted to be around nice people.
I never blamed God for the evil in the world. It was the human beings that disappointed. Look back on history, ancient history, and people were brutal to each other.
That advertisement forgot to explain why each and every tribe since the beginning of man searches for their creator. It's inside the heart of each man, they want to find out, and they do, if they're sincere.
I closed all the world out and got on my knees and asked God to show himself real, when everything seemed hopeless, and He did for me. I pray that He would manifest Himself to anyone who is thirsty.
Well, when you summarize things in those terms religion doesn't seem ridiculous at all... /s
ReplyDeleteGrew up Catholic. Even as a youngster I had a hard time believing any of this bunk. Just could not get on board with the irrational, seemingly arbitrary rules. I guess I could not reconcile the ambiguous, mythological superstitions with my own internal sense of reason.
Seems to me a lot of the problems with fundamentalist religion stem from a literal interpretation of the bible. It's a book of stories and parables, meant to teach the morality of 2000 years ago, not a how-to manual to get into heaven. And, religion does not always beget spirituality. I know a lot of regular bible thumping church goers who have truly black souls.
The hell with flames and burning off flesh thingy actually is not scriptural. Hell is a place of "fire" but perhaps in a spiritual sense. Because spirits don't have "flesh". It's been discussed and hell is sometimes referred to a place where God's presence does not dwell.
ReplyDeleteThere was a story in the NT about a sinful rich man who ignored the poor next to his home, he died, ended up in Hades. Well, according to that scripture, Hades didn't have flames shooting up and burning forever in eternal torment. The man was there, able to look up, a great divide, (wall) between through to heaven, and pleaded with Abraham to allow him to go back to earth and warn his family not to live in his footsteps so they would go to heaven. It didn't appear he was writhing in agony or any such thing.
Just saying.
Anon @ 5:22, I went through attempted brainwashing when my parents enrolled me in a private, Christian school. The whole "sin nature" belief was as bizarre and alien to me as a child as it is today. I never fit in at the school, and was constantly in trouble for expressing my opinions about the message. I stayed in trouble for the large part of my duration there, but ultimately it made me a much better - and healthier - person.
ReplyDeleteNo loving parent tells their baby they are sinful, etc. Has anyone here been told by their parents brought them up with this in their ears every day? Abusive parents might, but because they are hateful and abusive.
ReplyDeleteIn my lifetime, I've never known or heard parents laying down that stuff into their child's ears in that fashion. My own catholic parents didn't badger me day after day about any of the contents in that crazy ad. They had their issues, but I was gradually exposed to the catholic's views on sin and death. However awful it felt, I decided to study scripture for myself, like the Bereans, to show myself approved. It didn't take long to see how systems of men exploit and twist words to suit them so they can amass power and glory for themselves. It won't take long before a kid knows that something is terribly wrong with the world.
Is it abusive to lie to a kid and tell them that Santa Claus exists only to tell them when they are about 5 or 6 that it was all a lie?
I think that ad is hating on christians.
First of all, kids learn things from school, streets. Is it any better for them to hear drunk parents telling them God is dead and nothing is ordered or there is no purpose and they have to fend for themselves in this awful world. Is that a healthy alternative?
Oh little one, you deserve to be born, so that you can get custodial chores assigned to you in public school so that you feel important and valued in our hard working exceptional society that God favors over all else.
ReplyDeleteAnon. 5:28 - good point. But, they are wolves in sheep's clothing. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to know what they are up to. If a person has a heart, they'll steer away from these wolves.
ReplyDeleteThis is the thing. It angers us that they get away with this. We want justice. Who is just to take care of these guys? In our heart of hearts we want something or someone to KNOW that these creeps are stealing from little old ladies. That's why others cry out to God. The part about hell and stuff never occurs to some when they're reaching out to others. Mother Theresa? I don't think she was telling the sick and dying about the flames of hell. All I know is (and the bible confirms this, like in the story of the thief on the cross) that until they're last breath, if they feel to ask their creator for forgiveness for any thing they've done that was against His will, he is merciful and good to forgive them. Who can argue against that?
I grew up in the ALC (later the ELCA) and as Lutherans, we were taught that original sin meant the capacity to do wrong things and hurt others, which made sense to me, because we all do. Most of the emphasis was on God's love and on helping others in response to that love, on the ground and in larger context (Lutheran Services in America is one of the top charities in the country). This commercial creeps me out. It's certainly not what I recognize as Christianity.
ReplyDeleteOk, I just posted that I had too many horror stories to tell just one, but then I remembered this one and felt I had to share it.
ReplyDeleteWhen my oldest son was four years old, a little boy in his 'Mothers Morning Out' class died unexpectedly on X-mas Eve. It was later discovered that he had been born with a undiagnosed enzyme disorder called VLCAD deficiency. This was a happy little boy with a good, loving family that was healthy one day, and dead the next day.
I was devastated. It terrified me that a child could just die like that without any warning. It hit too close to home. My son was his age. I couldn't imagine anything worse that having your child die. It ripped my heart out.
We went to the boy's funeral. His father was sobbing openly. His mother looked like a zombie. I imagine she had taken medication to get her through it. The church was packed.
What stands out most in my memory was the obscenely small, little white coffin on the stage, with a large, tall black gentleman standing beside it. He had been asked to sing the boy's favorite song, 'Please Don't Take My Sunshine Away'.
As he sang, tears began to run down his face. It was painful for him, as it was for all of us, because of the words. In reality, the family's sunshine had been taken away. He started getting choked up, he was unable to continue singing. He looked apologetically at the boy's mother and father. They nodded at him that they understood, and he sat down.
What happened next is another reason why I was able to break from the church. It still fills me with fury when I think of it.
The preacher went up to give the eulogy. He gave the usual, "He is in a better place. God has brought him home to be with him." and so forth, but at the end, I guess him improvised and added something extra.
He looked at the mother and father in the eyes. He said, "Here is one thing you can be grateful for, your son never grew up to be a disappointment to the Lord. He never caused God grief or heartache. You can sleep well at night knowing he went to God pure and good." He then looked out at the congregation as if he had imparted wisdom and a great comfort.
My tears dried up. Not from comfort, but from being utterly appalled. I later told my husband, "I don't give a rat's ass if our sons are a disappointment to God. I don't want them to die in childhood just so they could go to God being 'pure'. If I thought God (when I believed in all this) would decide to take one of my son's away for being 'pure', I would take them to the church, hand them some rocks, and ask them to see how many windows they could break.
I know this is long, but I wanted to share this since it related to this post, and it was one of the defining moments in my life that showed how really crazy this mindset is.
Looking at that sinful little bastard's face makes me want to go get an abortion right now!
ReplyDeleteAs a non-believer in a neighborhood of Catholics and tight ass Scandinavian Lutherans I was kind of subjected to their brainwashing from a close distance. The only good thing about it is the girls were so repressed that when they decided they were going to act out - sexually of course - I was teenager - they really didn't have a stage of progression, for them it was nothing or everything. Of course a third of my friends got their gf's pregnant before they were 20 and those marriages, save one, didn't last but there was a lot of breeding going on in the "dirty" world of sin by the righteous. I think it left me a little cynical about "do as I say, not as I do" and made me very glad I wasn't subjected to the same crap my friends and neighbors had to deal with.
ReplyDeleteI understand where this is coming from. Faith is not something that is explainable, one either has it or they don't. The church is guilty of so much abuse and I turned away from it. I don't go anymore. I got sick of the judgemental people who are so self righteos they can't see past the end of their own noses. There were some good folks, but I ran into the crazies a lot more. It may be different in mainstream churches. I came out of the fundamentalist churches and they are a whole different kind of crazy. However, I choose to believe that God and Christ are nothing like these people. I turned to Chrstianity as a teen, back in the days of the Jesus movement of the early seventies. I had come from severe abuse, being mentally, physically and sexually abused for years growing up. I was raised by what I consider very sick people, my mother was a narcissistic bitch, just like Sarah Palin. My father was a terrible alcoholic who molested me for years as a child. My mother and father both beat me regularly, obviously taking out their frustration, hatred and anger on their children. I think that coming from severe abuse makes you look for something outside yourself,for some meaning to life. Life is so hard to make sense of. It really is. I cling to the hope that God cares. I don't doubt the exisstence of God or Christ. There is just so much hypocrisy in the church. I hate their bullshit politics. I hate the way I see people I used to know talk about the president. They make me sick. I don't want to associate with them anymore. If I wash my hands of anything it is of the church as I knew it. I would have to go to a liberal church if I were to return to church. Let the crazy people make theselves crazy. Let them carry theiur own hate I want no part of them.
ReplyDelete+1 A.J. Billings
ReplyDeleteRaised a Mormon, most Sacrament sermons were pretty dry, but one day a convert from a Protestant religion was called to speak. He totally went fire and brimstone on us, and everyone was very freaked out. He pointed to the congregation and shouted "Your sins tortured and killed Our Lord" and back it up with scriptures. I was just a little kid and was trembling and near tears.
The LDS church of my youth was very low key about "being cast into outer darkness" for disobedience but after the age of 8 and baptism we knew God was difficult to please, and he expected 10% of every penny we earned.
It would be very helpful if we were to stop trying to personify God and attributing human motivations and emotions to "him" such as favoring some people over others, being angry or vengeful, and started thinking of God as a metaphysical energy of love and goodness. We can choose to be part of that or not. We have the choice to be good (loving, unselfish, etc.) or the choice to be evil (hateful, greedy, self-serving). If the nature of God the energy is love, then there is also the opposite which is the absence of God. Even Jesus recognized (in the story where he was tempted by Satan) that he could use his power and his charisma to have everything in the world and he turned away from that self-serving impulse and toward the impulse of love. If you start to think of God in less anthropomorphic terms it really helps.
ReplyDeleteUhmm....
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure that is a satire. Watch it to the end to see it is produced by "The Thinking Atheist".
Done very well.
Gryphen, I know I'm a dummy, but I STILL can't figure out WHO made this piece and what it means. Is this a REAL piece from a Christian organisation? No one has answered my question about the provenance.
ReplyDeleteThanks!!!
HI Gryph,
ReplyDeleteSorry OT. Cant wait to see your commentary on this one.
Scarah actually using Trig to get back in the news again? Also, the HuffPo claims that any speculation about Trig's birth ended in 2008 !
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/17/sarah-palin-blasts-newsweek_n_1209736.html
What is not covered in this video, but also deserves discussion, is your feelings that women suffer the pains of childbirth, and a monthly menstrual cycle due to Eve's sin of eating that forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden. http://tinyurl.com/7mcbj76
ReplyDeleteThe profoundly negative affect that this has had on women throughout the ages is well documented.
Your thoughts?
Well, that brought back some painful memories.
ReplyDeleteOf physical pain.
Emotional pain.
From my childhood, to early adolescence when I met my abusive, religious zealot ex.
I am now 42 years old, and the abuse did not break me, does not define who I am now.
But it deeply saddens me that for many others, it is not so.
I think you moderated me, Gryphen. That's just silly.
ReplyDeleteThe fact you are now bringing up childbirth and menstruation shows me just how incredibly antiquated your perception about religious dogma and instruction is! It's ridiculous.
You need to get out a little more, honestly. Perhaps out of Alaska, I don't know.
Btw, that Thinking Atheist site is less than compelling. Those forum threads are just about as devoid of rigorous argument as anything I have ever seen on HuffPo pop culture threads or at C4P. It's laughable. You can do better than that for corroborating viewpoints, can't you?
Why don't the site owners and primary contributors reveal their backgrounds and identities? Who is Seth, and who is Stark Raving?
"I think that ad is hating on christians.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, kids learn things from school, streets. Is it any better for them to hear drunk parents telling them God is dead and nothing is ordered or there is no purpose and they have to fend for themselves in this awful world. Is that a healthy alternative?"
******************
WTF are you talking about? So, those of us who are non-believers are a bunch of abusive drunks? Someone needs a critical thinking class! Here's a news flash for you. Christians do not have a monopoly on morality! And my children will be able to form their own opinions about whether there is a god or not without being brainwashed before hand!
Religion is a mental disease.
ReplyDeleteImagine what would happen if there were no fear of what happens in The Afterlife.
ReplyDeleteSo many crimes and murders committed with abandon - after all, so what if "society" locks you up; maybe you really wanted to do this terrible crime, and can live with being locked-up. Maybe even put to death. But, you'd have no "forever" fear. Instilling "forever fear" is critical in religion.
That's why harsh retribution in religion is SO IMPORTANT to those who wish to control the populace. Fear of the unknown helps maintain control of the many today. Theirs is an unloving God. Theirs is a God that is intolerant and cruel (Hell-fire, anybody???).
I will admit, I AM A CHRISTIAN; I DO BELIEVE IN GOD and the hereafter; but the God I believe in is loving, kind and giving. He has high expectations for me; I work hard to please him. But I don't use His Word as weapons against others.
THAT would not be Christian, now would it?
LOL, 5:22! I could have written your post!
ReplyDeleteAnother way that Catholics show up fundies as amateurs is that fundies can just say a quick "Ibelievejesusdiedformysins" and voila, instant ticket to heaven.
CATHOLICS, now, THEY have to do it the HARD way, via CONFESSION to a (probably pedophile) PRIEST.
To 5:19: love you! Best comment so far!!
ReplyDeleteTo 5:22: loved your ending paragraph. If I believed in Satan, I too would believe religions to be his invention and tool to cripple the human race.
ReplyDeleteGosh, so many insightful and wonderful comments today.
Sorry that those of you who went through brainwashing as children suffered so. I escaped it - mostly. Call it collateral damage but our society is still drenched in this stuff that even the young of non-church goers get tainted with the fear.
Gryphen, you asked our thoughts and feelings about women suffering the pains of childbirth and a monthly cycle due to Eve's eating of the forbidden fruit.
ReplyDeleteObviously written by a male to subjugate women. I am a loose follower of Dianic Wicca. I believe a woman's menstrual cycle echos the cycle of the moon, tying women's energy closely to the Maiden/Mother/Crone cycle of the Goddess. This is a connection to earth and the universe, something to be celebrated and honored. When my own daughter started her period, we treated it as a celebration, not something as shameful. Women are so fortunate that we create life.
This is what we had to memorize for Catechism class at my church:
ReplyDeleteQ. 1. What is your only comfort, in life and in death?
A. That I belong--body and soul, in life and in death--not to myself but to my faithful Savior, Jesus Christ, who at the cost of his own blood has fully paid for all my sins and has completely freed me from the dominion of the devil; that he protects me so well that without the will of my Father in heaven not a hair can fall from my head; indeed, that everything must fit his purpose for my salvation. Therefore, by his Holy Spirit, he also assures me of eternal life, and makes me wholeheartedly willing and ready from now on to live for him.
Q. 2. How many things must you know that you may live and die in the blessedness of this comfort?
A. Three. First, the greatness of my sin and wretchedness. Second, how I am freed from all my sins and their wretched consequences. Third, what gratitude I owe to God for such redemption.
This blog is encouraging me to revisit those words that are indelible in my brain.
Religions are a con mans game of control to instill fear and gain wealth for those playing the system. Doesn't matter the religion, look back thousands of years...it was always used to make others live in fear while those at the top reaped wealth and power. You will also note that they eventually toppled. Look at the Myans, etc.
ReplyDeleteFor those of you that are under the impression that this vid is a Xtian commercial, have another look... all the way through this time. I think you'll realize that the focus is on the ludicrous premise that is Christianity, the horror that religion imparts to its followers. Basically, the bullshit.
ReplyDeleteEvangelicals have nothing on the Catholics. They rule with fear and guilt.
ReplyDeleteIf it is satire, it is brutal.
ReplyDeleteI found an article that does give me hope re: the xtian right nonsense this morning for some reason, I can not get the link, but it's at the new Republic by Michael Kazin. The End of the Christian Right.
Also, this bears a look. maybe they are not all crazy:
http://www.thechristianleft.org/
I still don't understand why people look up to the heavens when we know there's nothing up there.. that is until we have first contact with the Vulcan's.. God help us if we make contact with the Klingon's or the Borg first.
ReplyDeleteThen again considering slavery was used but Bible punchers maybe we have already been visited by the Borg.. take people from their land and assimilate them to accept their GOD
This may have been created as an exaggeration to show the extreme lengths that religions will go to to control their flocks. However, I can assure you, as a former Catholic, that this video is not that far from reality. There were a few fire and brimstone nuns and priests in my church who took great delight in scaring the crap out of small children with admonitions about how wicked we were!
ReplyDeleteAs a child myself, I never understood how a brand new baby could be so full of sin when they hadn't even done anything yet besides eat, pee and poop. The Catholic Church, especially in the Irish version that I grew up with, rules with fear and guilt and starts very young, before you've had a chance to develop the ability to smell BS.
The first scripture they show.. I like the KJV, Ps 51:5, "Behold,I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin my mother conceive me." That was a repentance prayer of David. He sinned against God and was asking for forgiveness... God never said we are sin... This was what David was saying about himself... We all sinned and come short to the glory of God. The film is saying sin separate us from God... God sent his only forgotten Son into the world to be a living scrafice for our sin. Whoever believe on the Son, will not perish, but have everlasting life. The film should have been focus on the Love of God.
ReplyDeleteI went to church as a child once in a while... It was the Church of God in Christ, an Afican American Holiness Pentocostal Church. My aunt was called a Missionary, (she was really an evangelist, women wasn't allow to be EV). I remember everytime I was there I felt God present, and some of the people will shout (dance in the Holy Spirit), cry and praise God. My mom stopped going to church especially after my aunt passed, she allowed us to go only on Easter. She used to always talk about God and how often He healed her and answer her prayer. She also talked about how my younger brother needed open heart surgery and how she took him to an revival and he was healed instantly. How my aunt prayed for her and she had my sister without labor pain.
As an adult, had an amazing experience when I understood the Word and received it with joy. A week after accepting Christ, God gave me an open vision of the last days... I didn't understand it at first, because I didn't know the Bible and I was just getting to know God. Although I have experienced His present as a young child, but I didn't really know God.
I am not attending church right now, but will as soon as I find the right church. The last church I attended was a Spiritedfilled pentocostal prophetic church, that operated all 9 of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit. It was unlike the childhood church, women are allow to lead and preach. I had a woman pastor. I am a licensed minister as a teacher, and been through 2 years of Bible College... No, I am not brainwashed LOL... I believe in creation and science... I don't believe we came from apt and I don't believe the earth is 6000 years old...
I got 3/4 of the way through it.
ReplyDeleteYuck.
I feel a bit better having grown up Catholic (not that it was easy). I never heard of the rapture crap until I was in junior high school and around Protestants who came from more conservative backgrounds.
I'm glad I no longer believe in any of the big three Middle Eastern cults.
Somebody wrote: I went to thethinkingathiest.com and found what I think is a Christian website.
ReplyDeleteThat's an example of typosquatting. The people who put it up are taking advantage of the fact that a lot of people think that "i" comes before "e" even when they are not in the same syllable.
The site referenced in the article is actually at http://thethinkingatheist.com/.
FWIW, here are some other "ist" words:
ageist, allotheist, canoeist, cryptodeist, epeeist, fableist, hygeist, karateist, Monroeist, pharmacopoeist, reparteeist, Yankeeist, zootheist.
Well...this video certainly does NOT represent the message I got in my 12 years of Catholic schooling. Of course Jesus' suffering, the concept of hell, etc, got mentioned. But message I was left with was about loving God through loving others -- taking care of the poor and unfortunate, being kind, etc.
ReplyDeleteI learned at the age of about 10 that my family's Catholicism was not for me. It was when the priest told my grandmother that my grandfather ( who had multiple sclerosis ) must have been really loved by god because god chose to have him suffer so. Huh?
ReplyDeleteJesus H. Christ on crutches, who the fuck comes up with this tripe?
ReplyDeleteGet on your knees, repent for crimes you yourself did not commit, surrender your freewill, and then you will be deemed worthwhile by a non-existent entity?
Sounds like a plan for humanism to me!
BARF!!!
I lived through several years of brainwashing, coming home from church school confused and in tears. There was no upside. In my 7-year-old brain I anguished over the fact my mother didn’t go to church like my father. Would she go to hell? It was awful. Finally, when my sister came home and vomited after every class mom rose up and said “no more.”
ReplyDeleteNow, I have friends who have gone back to the church They give convoluted answers as to why they believe. In fact, I am astonished by some of the bizarre material they say they have found in the Bible to describe existence and being. I honestly believe we are pack animals at heart and such is the reason for our tribal natures. I just have a hard time accepting any authority that deems me under their power and I can’t believe this isn’t the reason for organized religion. My friends? Nearly every person who went back to a church was very lonely. There must be a better way to provide a place for people where their very being isn’t under assault.
I love these posts that are so devoid of "magical thinking" and so full of thoughtful, reality based content - thanks, Gryph.
ReplyDeleteHere's my 2 cents - any religion that uses FEAR, GUILT, Sexism and Sexual REPRESSION to recruit and control its members - is harmful to society (everywhere). These kinds of churches tend to drive their members away because of rigidity and inability to respond to the changing needs of their congregations.
I knew a lot of Catholics when I was growing up - trouble is - every single one of them was either a lapsed Catholic, or an atheist who was vehemently anti-catholicism/religion because of abuse suffered while attending Catholic schools (and church).
My brother-in-law was so abused he ended up not only dropping out of school in the 8th grade - he also refused public schools. In fact, many of his classmates were abused. From a devout French Canadian Catholic family with 8 children - none of them are practicing Catholics! His parents themselves came from large Catholic families - most of their children also shun the Catholic Church and religion.
My ex husband was an altar boy, the youngest of 10 children. The father abandoned the family - and proceeded to procreate children all over town while his family starved. Their life was, in fact, just about identical to that depicted in "Angela's Ashes" by Frank McCourt. The threats of the poorhouse, begging for scraps at the butcher shop and fish market. Getting vouchers for clothing/shoes from the overseer of the poor. Only 2 children graduated from high school, only 1 went to college (my ex).
When my MIL died the Catholic Church refused to officiate or allow her to be buried in the church - because her last child was NOT fathered by her husband, the man who had abandoned her and all of his children years before. THAT drunken whoremaster was buried as a full member of the church, despite his whoring, numerous illegitimate children, infidelity, and child abandonment.
My MIL did take the scoundrel back in when he came down with TB (they never divorced) - exposing the whole family - and cared for him until he died! She also continued to send all her children to catechism and Church, AND raised all her children to adulthood without help from a husband or the Catholic Church.
My ex starved as a child - he told me how hungry he would get when he went to clean the rectory - he could smell bacon and steaks cooking for the priest's breakfast, and how many empty (expensive) liquor and wine bottles he had to empty out of the wastebaskets. When he was in the Navy, he visited the Vatican - and was astounded at how much GOLD and WEALTH there was, and realized - the OBSCENITY of it.
Needless to say - there's not very many practicing Catholics in my ex's extended family - they all woke up when their mother was treated so horribly.
I count myself lucky that my childhood spared me the early religious indoctrination that my peers were subjected to. When just about nothing adds up or makes sense about a particular belief system - and then you load up that magical thinking with virulent racism/sexism/anti-intellectualism, and hypocrisy, as well - it's all lose-lose to me.
OH - and this comment is only my OPINION - based on what I have experienced - as it relates to MY life. I respect everyone else's rights to their own belief system!
I'm not sure if it's been said or not but this video is satire. If you follow the video back to thethinkingathiest, you will see that they make video's like this to stir the pot and get people talking.
ReplyDelete@5:19 AM
ReplyDeleteWhen one person has an imaginary friend.. he is considered insane.
When millions have an imaginary friend.. they call it religion.
EXCELLENT ASSESSMENT. They are insane and would kill atheists where they stand if they could. Because we call them out like this. (I have to use Anon on this one...)
Lots of interesting comments & stories. Makes for an open debate & discussion on religion in society.
ReplyDeleteI believe in a creator yet in evolution, too. Somewhere, somehow cells joined together to work in harmony, creating our bodies, our minds. We have spare parts, wisdom teeth & appendix, that our bodies no longer need - however at one time may have been vital to our survival. If the creator is referred to as God, Allah, etc. so be it.
I do not look at the creator as a Father scowling at our sins or cheering touchdowns or even choosing sides in a war. More as a Johnny Appleseed kinda fellow - planted 'seeds" to see what would grow and moved on. Some species survived, adapted and grew - while others withered & died. Who is to say seeds (dna / cells...) weren't sown on other planets that generated a different life form?
Who knows if this creator will return to see what grew? Will redwoods, whales, blue skies, penguins and children make the creator proud? Perhaps. Or maybe the creator will see the "life" devastation to habitats and other creatures as justification to 're-seed' this planet.
Money is not the root of all evil -it is organized religion. I see us as stewards for this planet and all the creatures who share it with us.
My mother went to a baptist church with my brother, sister and I-my father refused to go. In sunday school they told us that you could get into heaven if you if you accepted Jesus at any time before you died. I was so happy-I had found the loophole! I just did whatever I wanted and would say every so often "sorry jesus" and I knew I was covered (8 year old logic).
ReplyDeleteThen my mother, who tithed 10% of her salary, got laid off. The church, instead of helping her, sent her a bill for her tithing. She was so pissed off she never went again. She still sent us kids with a quarter for the plate. My brother and I would buy candy and play in the park. My poor sister continued to go and has turned into an evangelical. My brother and I are normal!
Assuming that there is a Greater Omniscient Power who created and runs the universe -
ReplyDeletethen no one who is not also omniscient can possibly understand who or what that power is or how that power works.
So assuming there is such a God then we only create massive confusion by trying to explain something that we cannot fathom.
What we have ended up with then is an incredible confusion of ignorance,with a few correct guesses lost in a morass of incorrect guesses.
I'll stick to the lessons, of the Beatitudes. Those I can understand. Those, on most days, I can actually live up to.
Jesus fucking christ - what IS this shit???!!!??
ReplyDeleteI haven't listened to the whole thing (I simply couldn't) but why are these people so so anti abortion if, when you're finally born, you're WORTHLESS??!!!?????
Sick people. Really truly sick.
Talk about some reparative therapy needed.....
Wow.
I think I was, and still amazingly am, ignorant about how deep this shit goes for some people, and how far they're willing to go to fight for their world view.
Extremists, both Christian as well as Islamic, are abhorrent.
Communism was on to one thing: organized religion should be banned.
Oh, I see.
ReplyDeleteThis video is SUPPOSED to extract this kind of visceral reaction, and I must say: WELL DONE!!!
This is a guy wanting to enlighten ignorants like me to the real danger these Evangelicals pose!!
http://thethinkingatheist.com/page/about
I have to say, pretty powefully done!!
I agree it's abuse. Who produced it? I am so furious that these stories continue. One thing that has always annoyed the f*ck out of me is -- why did God wait SO long to send himself/his son? Even if you are crazy enough to believe the earth is only a few thousand years old...you still agree humans were around before Jesus. So where did they go after death? Were they just screwed? Or did they float around in purgatory? Also - yes, Jesus died a horrible death (according to the people who wrote the Gospels -- CENTURIES AFTER HE DIED -- but many people do. Do all the people who die in terrible ways "make the ultimate sacrifice"? Or does that honor belong only to God/his son? Everyone dies, sinner or not. So to say "the wages of sin is death" just doesn't make sense. Oh God, I can't even start...it's too fucking outrageous. But what's really alarming is how it's affected public policy...how the US is returning to the dark ages b/c of it...religion (Christianity) is de facto about following the leader and not questioning anything. Very scary stuff.
ReplyDeleteJust to be clear here ~ that represents pure propaganda... someone else's interpretation, which is precisely why we've been given a free will.
ReplyDeleteI am a Christian, and really don't find a need to apologize or defend my position, as the Word is it's own defense.
Someday it will all be clear, because this one thing we can all agree on: it is appointed unto men once to die.
So fret not about my Christian beliefs, for we all have but one life to live, therefore, to thine own self be true.
To quote a fellow blogger:
"Seems yet again that those who LEAST understand spirituality are the most willing to impose their "religion" upon others."
Live and let live.
+++
I grew up in the "One True Church", and in time I realized that their teachings were contrary to true Christian love. If God is all merciful, why would he condemn babies for a sin they did not commit. I'm referring to original sin.
ReplyDeleteI learned so many things while a Catholic, that I now know were very erroneous. I still have faith in Christ and in God, though. My belief in God is not what the Catholics believe, though.
I was hated and humiliated by one of the "brides of Christ". She was manly, tall, and had taken 2 men's names for her nun name. I was not a bad kid, just a defective one in her eyes. I only had to see this woman on Sundays. Thank goodness my folks did not send me to Catholic school, or I would have been more abused.
Well, thanks for letting me rant. I can still hardly believe what some of us put up with when we were children.
I didn't hear a lot of this crap because I was raised in the Eastern Orthodox Church.
ReplyDeleteI think it's funny that fundies believe that God wrote exactly one book, and most people in the world have either not known about it or not had access to it, yet they, among the privileged few, DO NOT BOTHER to read it.
God wrote a book.
You believe in God.
You have the book.
You haven't read it.
Yes, I think that the hell and original sin stuff is abuse. It is deep, psychic abuse.
In fact, I lay at the feet of the Catholic Church the atheism that has become so common today, mostly in the Christian west.
I blame the Catholics more than the Protestants because they invented it and the Protestants -- well, what the hell kind of reformation was that?
KatieAnnieOakley--
ReplyDeleteI couldn't tell if you were kidding. Actually, going to hell doesn't seem to be a good deterrant at all. Karma works much better. It's more believable and easier to digest. Forever is really too abstract and deep down no one believes it. But the idea that what you put out will come back to you - it really makes sense and is understandable.
As a former Catholic (their official choice via Excommunication) who survived catholic grade and high schools, I can happily say, they did me a huge favor.
ReplyDeleteAs a woman, I do get what Grypen is saying re: Tree of Knowledge, Women having menstrual cycles, pain in childbirth, and men will toil and live from the sweat of his brow. DARING to partake of the fruit of the tree of knowledge (truth, free thinking) WAS and IS PUNISHED by suppressing women.
The ritual cannibalism (eating wine and bread which believing is the body and blood of Christ, the believing makes it so, not the ritual itself.
What sealed it for me was when my cousin committed suicide, and was denied burial in his family's pre-paid plot in a Catholic cemetery. Suicide is the ultimate sin, because the person doesn't get a chance at forgiveness. And the family has to suffer beyond the pale. My devout Aunt had the remains of her parents, sister, two daughters exhumed and re-buried in a non-denominational cemetery. What God can't forgive ALL "sin"?
Throughout history, many wrongs, battles, wars, and crimes have been done in the name of religion.
We decided to raise our children without any formal religious clasess, but they are spiritual, do good things for others because it's the "human" and right thing to do. They learned the basics of all religions, and when they reach the age of consent, it's their choice which to choose and whether to mutilate their bodies as proof of a covenant, etc etc.
So far, they're pretty average kids who are encouraged to experience their friend's religions and world views. We'll love them no matter what they choose, or not to choose, as long as it's informed and they're of legal age.
I like the Wicca comment about the menstural cycle and the phases of the moon. It Should be a celebration, because it's what makes us uniquely women, the ability to bring life into the world if we choose to.
Reminds me of when Jonah swallowed the whale.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, here is another excellent video on religion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o
Here's a helpful antidote:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.jhuger.com/kisshank.php
Anita Winecooler I like what you wrote.
ReplyDeleteI really can't stand the argument that morality has to be based on belief in God (especially a God who has been so violent and bizarre (asking someone to sacrifice his own son, etc. -- Also take a look on that Thinking Atheist site of all the crazy bloodthirsty stuff God has done *according to the Bible*).
You are generous and good and your "brother's keeper" because, as you wrote Anita, it's the right and human thing to do.
Also, I'm getting more and more annoyed at the audaciousness of anyone telling anyone else they will suffer for eternity because they don't agree with them. That is so unbelievably rude.
I'm with Anonymous 7:05---
ReplyDeleteI've never once been told these things at the churches I've attended (ELCA Lutheran and Christian Church (Disciples of Christ.)
Of course, ignorance floats both ways. While everyone likes to point and laugh at the fundies (myself included), you've got people spouting ignorance in the comments here. None of the Gospels were written CENTURIES after Jesus' death. All were written within 100 years of his death. (While that may seem an outrageous amount of time in this world of Twitter, it's probably not out of bounds for a word-of-mouth, illegal religion.)
*shrugs* I helped put together 130 newborn kits for mothers in CAR this past Sunday, which is a far better use of my time than watching videos from dubious sources with an agenda to push.
This is the site that I often refer to, and that contributed to myself becoming an atheist after being brought up in an evangelical home. Maybe it's well known, maybe not, but it is a great reference. http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/
ReplyDelete@11:20 Chella
ReplyDeleteTrying to pit catholics against protestants much ?
As for fear. Bush junior and his clique ruled with fear : Ooh let's attack Iraq, or else they'll chemically bomb us first ! Were they catholics ?
As for guilt. Catholics are very good at guilt, guilt from sex and guilt from money. Protestants have narrowed it to guilt from sex. When an US elected official sends a private email with his penis on it, was it catholics who shamed him into resigning ?
As for evangelicals. How many hate speeches have they spewed, and how many hate crimes have they advocated in the recent years ? How could the catholics, a minority religion in the US, compete with that mountain of hate ? They're not numerous enough, by far.
"Imagine what would happen if there were no fear of what happens in The Afterlife."
ReplyDeleteHuh, nothing would happen much.
The fear of The Afterlife only tortures people who think ahead - and those are likely to be readily deterred from criminal activities by secular laws.
Many people don't think ahead. Horrible things that readily happen in The Life don't frighten some people much, be they criminals or law-abiding citizens : if the bad consequences are remote enough, many will act as if there were no tomorrows.
Just look at European smokers. Show them the dying Marlboro man anytime - that won't prevent them from smoking. Anything you'll tell them is rubbish, until they'll start dying themselves, and then it's "if only I had known earlier" or "you were just lucky not to start smoking, unlike me". No dummy, I was thinking ahead, and you weren't.
There is no more criminality in secular countries than in deeply religious ones ; there is probably less (less laws to break).
I thought it was a crock of shit.
ReplyDeleteStill do. They told me who to hate. They told me my friends were bad, or evil people. They told me I was bad, and that I needed to kiss serious ass my whole life to make up for it.
They also said Jesus died so that I might have the privilege of groveling in that fashion, doomed otherwise.
They wanted me to feel shame over who I was, and they wanted me to define myself in their terms, always seeking their approval too.
Is this abuse?
Damn right it is. I think it's a crime to distort things so badly for people so young. When it's done in such an intense way, they solidify around these twisted ideas, unable to choose their own beliefs and walk this world with eyes wide open and a free mind.
I walked away from it and it was costly. Took me quite a while to get it all sorted out, and it was not easy to do. I had to put distance between all of that and seek out new friends, family, so that I could just be who I was with no fear, no shame.
And I'm an ordinary person really. Nothing special, other than I really can't see the ideas of bigotry or racism or theocracy being morally supportable in any way, at any time, for anyone.
When we lie to people like this, we fragment their mind, forcing compartmentalization that impacts reason, rendering people impotent, unable to think, instead fighting or fleeing seeing the world in basic fear based terms because understanding is denied.
When we lie to ourselves the same kinds of things happen, and when we base our self-worth off of those lies we transform it all into a personal issue, encouraging more fighting because disagreement becomes a threat to who we are and what our value is.
That's gotta be some kind of crime.
Subjecting young people to this shit before they've self-identified denies them that, leaving them weak, floating, arbitrary, confused, needy.
That's gotta be some crime too, because when we do that, we bend a person into something others desire, denying them basic personal freedom they are otherwise entitled to.