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Now for me O'Donnell's recognition that the church's position on this topic is a "man made invention, because contraception is a man made invention" is perhaps the most important point in this whole ridiculous argument.The Bible does not address whether a woman should, or should not, take birth control pills, or the Plan B morning after pill, because these options were simply NOT something they could have predicted thousands of years ago when the book was being written.
And let's face it, these are rules made up by men to relegate the status of their women to nothing more than breeding stock to keep the Catholic numbers up and the church coffers overflowing.
(By the way, while we are on the subject, the Bible also does NOT identify that life begins at conception. And in fact provides numerous instances where the death of a child, or even of a pregnant mother, was supported or even demanded by God. "Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up." -- Hosea 13:16)
And to be clear the administration is not asking the Catholic church itself to do anything that goes against their beliefs in their function as a religious institute. It is ONLY in their role as an employer that they are being asked to comply with the law.
The same holds true for businesses run by Muslims, Jews, or Hindus as well. (Though to be fair Hindus do not have an issue with contraception.)
And as Lawrence says, there is nothing which demands that Catholic employees actually utilize the opportunity to have their contraception paid for by their employer. And in fact they are, as he states, free to go "Full Santorum."
Though that MAY not mean what Lawrence thinks it means.
They have manufactured this controversy to deflect attention from all the pedophilia which they are doing nothing to stop. Many Catholic institutions already have insurance plans that pay for birth control.
ReplyDeleteIf the church was really serious, they would ban all employees from USING birth control and they would be testing to make sure people were in compliance.
I blame Carl Djerassi.
ReplyDeleteAmericans Found Religious Arguments Against Contraception Mandates 'Not Convincing'
ReplyDeletehttp://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/august-poll-americans-found-religious-arguments-against-contraception
LOD's conclusion is the same as mine: the Obama administration would not require ANY Catholic woman to go against her own religious principles – she is free to go full Santorum and bear as many wanted or unwanted children as she wishes or as her husband requires. O'Donnell is also correct in the fact that NONE of these Catholic 'religious principles' are stated at any place in the Bible: they are all man-made rules for the purpose of subjugating women.
ReplyDeleteIt is beyond obvious that the Vatican and all its paid political shills are complaining that THEIR freedom of conscience is denied only because they would no longer be in a position to deny freedom of conscience to others – including others from within their own flock who feel differently. The Catholic hierarchy may wear dresses, but it is only when they are forced to bear and raise unwanted children that their voice will merit any attention from me.
Whoa, Lawrence.
ReplyDelete"No one's forcing Catholics to use contraception. They can go "full Santorum."
Excellent. Tnx for posting. I fell asleep before he came on.
This whole fake controversy is funny if you think about it. The conservatives think religious law should trump federal law in this case. Do you think they would say the same thing if it were a *gasp* MUSLIM mosque wanting to apply SHARIA law?! Ha. They're such hypocrites. This is just another battle in their war on women trying to take us back to the 19th century.
ReplyDeleteOh and by the way: 98% of catholic women USE contraception.
Lawrence further discusses this issue:
ReplyDeletehttp://video.msnbc.msn.com/the-last-word/46320611#46320599
More good stuff!
ReplyDeletehttp://video.msnbc.msn.com/the-last-word/46320611#46320618
OMG - I finally looked it up on urbandictionary. Thanks for the laughs Gryph!
ReplyDeleteI guess Catholics don't think they need birth control since they like molesting little kids.
ReplyDeleteGOP and Catholic Church are hypocrites.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.heraldscotland.com/news/world-news/pope-agrees-condom-use-can-be-justified-1.1069795
The hypocracy of the Church is amazing. Up until 1984 they were major stock holders of Instituto Farmacologico Sereno which made ....You guessed it...birth control pills. They got rid of it after being outed by David Yallop in his book "In God's Name". Check out:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.voxfux.com/features/vaticanmurder.html
http://howgoodisthat.wordpress.com/2009/03/30/up-until-1984-the-catholic-church-drew-profits-from-luteolas-an-oral-contraceptive/
Jehovah's Wittnesses think that blood transfusions are evil, yet they own businesses which have paid for them, and organ donations, for decades. They choose death over this proceedure when they are offered it, yet they have NEVER complained over paying for it for those who choose it.
ReplyDeleteI bet the policies cover Viagra, though
ReplyDeleteI cannot believe this is an issue we are even discussing in 2011. This is one of the many reasons why I am not a Catholic anymore...the church knows that 98% of their female members use birth control anyway, but they still insist on putting on this ridiculous farce.
ReplyDeleteYou think Big Pharma is going to let this one be reversed, think again, and it is already well documented that Romney owns stock in many companies that make birth control. It's all a big charade, and the real issue is not about birth control pills, IUD's, and morning after pills, but how a bunch of old white guys are still trying to trample on women's rights. Women need to be educated on the right types of birth control methods, too many doctors readily push pills
on patients without adequately explaining the side effects and risks. Birth control pills aren't a license to fornicate, and they don't prevent STD's . Being married in my forties, I know many women who took the Pill for way too long, and ended up with a lot of complications, even cancer.
Sorry for the rant, but if healthcare wasn't such a profitable industry, churches wouldn't be in the hospitable business. If religious institutions want to run big money universities and hospitals they need to play by the same rules as everyone else.
Don't you know about the Quiverfull movement? I think they are way scarier than the Catholic church on this question. The Catholics I know ignore this teaching wholesale. The Quiverfull agenda is to "have as many children as God will send me". And stay home with all these kids because my only function in life is pooping out kids. It's a fundamentalist movement. I understand some women are starting to opt out but these folks are having huge families, homeschooled.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if others could comment on my growing sense that contraceptives, pro- and anti-choice, and gay rights issues are on-purpose being drummed up to deflect from waaaaaaaaay bigger issues.
ReplyDeleteOne of them is the "Southern Strategy," which some claim is an effort to retain racism, but you can't say that so the code is that we discuss these other issues. With the assumption that most racists are also on the wrong side of the 3 issues listed above.
And of course of even more importance to us is the economy and the effort of the know-nothings to prevail -- in their efforts to cut spending in a recession rather than cut it during prosperity, as Clinton started to do.
And trumping all that is the issue of our very survival as humans re climate change -- I guess people would rather obsess over the foregone conclusions re birth control.
Rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
Why O Why do old men have any say in a female's choice and use of contraception anyway?
ReplyDeleteI know, rhetorical question, preaching to the choir, etc., ad nauseum, but HONESTLY, the Hubris of some people!
This is my personal view:
http://www.themindisaterriblething.com/2012/02/choices-of-man.html
.
Anon 8:32
ReplyDeleteI guess Catholics don't think they need birth control since they like molesting little kids.
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That's why their insurance coverage pays for viagara.
Do you hear any protest from the Dirtbaggers about that??? CRICKETS
What kills me are all the Right Wingers stomping their feet and screaming about the poor Catholic Church. Never, not once in my entire life, have I heard a rich WASP say one good thing about "those Papists." A significant proportion of them don't even think Catholics are Christians.
ReplyDeleteNow, though? It seems like the GOP is a great big old bunch of cradle Catholics, rabidly defending the Church. They must really think we're all as stupid as their base.
Good point and all but Hosea is not a book in the Christian bible. (It's in the Hebrew version). lots of graphic violence in the regular bible though. Fi "always sunny in philadelphia" is not too gross for you, see the one where Mac takes on gay marriage. pretty funny. the miller high life truck driver (big black guy, deep voice) reads some pretty funny stuff about beating slaves.
ReplyDeleteThe Bible actually says that GOD breathed life into Adam which means life begins with your first breath according to the Bible NOT at conception.
ReplyDeleteReminder that today is the last day to email the Clare Boothe Luce Institute to tell them that they'll be really upset when their award winner's pregnancy hoax is revealed:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.cblpi.org/about/contact.cfm
Also, Gryphen, re your "paint-chip eater" refrain. Our dear Clare Boothe Luce falls into that category, literally -- not that she wasn't smart or witty, but wiki says of her: "As ambassador [to Italy], Luce . . . fell seriously ill with arsenic poisoning caused by paint chips falling from the stucco that decorated her bedroom ceiling, and was forced to resign in 1956."
Anonymous 8:44 AM Jehovah's Witnesses think that blood transfusions are evil, yet they own businesses which have paid for them, and organ donations, for decades. They choose death over this procedure when they are offered it, yet they have NEVER complained over paying for it for those who choose it.
ReplyDelete------
I like your post. Just wanted to point out, that they (JWs)don't choose death :-), they ask for saline substitutes, which is actually better for the body, but is a much longer surgical procedure that most medical staff don't like doing. They have to clamp more veins and arteries from losing blood. The body's red blood cells can reproduce and flourish and the idea of the JW's is they don't want someone else's blood in their system. This actually saved them during the 70s during the AIDS epidemic that spread via blood transfusions.
Anonymous said...The Bible actually says that GOD breathed life into Adam which means life begins with your first breath according to the Bible NOT at conception.9:33 AM
ReplyDelete---
Great clarification. The human embryo is a mass of cells that multiply to make a "baby". The life or human spirit, doesn't hang around in the womb in cramped amniotic fluid sac for nine months... how boring, inefficient, and unpractical. If life started at conception, what about all the miscarriages?
Notice how this issue took center stage because Komen tanked themselves and lost.
ReplyDeleteIt's like there is a Rolodex to move to the next issue to stomp on women's rights. Look at all the State bills being RAMMED through on abortion, etc.
Check this out on Media Matters. Is Juan Williams gonna go MIA for a bit?? Fox isn't liking what he's saying as it's totally against what the other buffoons are spewing about this RCC issue
ReplyDeletehttp://feeds.mediamatters.org/~r/MediaMattersForAmerica-CountyFair/~3/Z-4sHWr6OJo/201202090009
The catholic church must be making plans to test all female employees to insure they are not taking the pill. Vigorous strip searches will reveal any IUDs or other physical contraceptives.
ReplyDeleteYou gotta love those christian cancervative values forced down your throat, and all the while we're assured that the handcuffs they're placing upon us, are only meant to set us free. It's all about maintaining our "freedoms," don't-cha know?
The god that the bible describes is NOT anti-abortion. There is a passage in Numbers in which God instructs Moses on how to force a woman to have an abortion.
ReplyDeleteIf her husband gets jealous and thinks that she has been with another man, he takes her to the priest, pays a fine, and she drinks a concoction. If she is 'guilty' she will abort, if not, all should be well.
Considering the consequences in those times of a woman having an affair, I doubt that many would have risked it. I imagine the husband is having sex with her though. What a great way to punish her though if he wanted to. The woman had no say in the matter.
And I love how it says that no matter what happens, the husband will not be found guilty.
Seriously, do these people not read the bible?!!
Numbers chapter 5, verse 11-31
http://niv.scripturetext.com/numbers/5.htm
Genesis, in chapter 38, tells the story of Onan, who was required to marry the widow of his brother. He didn't want to father children with her, so he "spilled his seed." This ancient Canaanite folklore is used by some Catholics to defend their objection to every form of birth control except the Creighton method or other non-medical approaches. In the past, it was also used to discourage children from masturbating.
ReplyDeleteSince Onan disobeyed, God killed him, but Onan's sin was more than coitus interruptus. He violated a tribal code which was designed to ensure growth of the clan. Marrying outside the tribe was forbidden, so procreation partners were limited.
The church is sending out HHS Action Alerts to many members. Neither I nor my friends can comply. We rely on the primacy of conscience.
Pope John Paul, before he was Pope, is quoted as having implied that the church couldn't change its stance on birth control mainly because that would undercut the principle of papal infallibility. I think Canadian Bishops have already acknowledged that contraception is sensible and necessary.
Those posters who have said this is just a distraction by the GOP are right. The issue is moot anyway. Women who have been denied contraceptive coverage under their health plans have successfully sued under provisions of the EEOC, and their victories have been upheld on appeal.
There is always the option NOT to work for a Catholic hospital or university or other religious-affiliated employer. There is also a government option NOT to continue federal grants, etc., to Catholic institutions which fail to follow the law.
ReplyDeleteWow, the first commenter has hit a 100% bingo. They are doing it to deflect attention away from the pedophile scandals that are still brewing, in court and elsewhere.
ReplyDeleteAnd the democratic congressmen who are going along with this insanity? They are doing it to get political donations from Vatican-approved funding groups. Follow the money; it's as simple as that.
As for every male who is pursuing this dark ages slant, when I am queen I will take away all your Viagra, which I'm sure you want covered in YOUR insurance policy.
What's next? Seventh Day Adventist hospitals that refuse to serve meat to their patients (on religious grounds)? Jehovah's Witnesses employers who refuse to allow their employees to have insurance that covers blood transfusions (on religious grounds)? Mormon employers who refuse to give health insurance to any non-baptized Mormon? An Islamic charity that receives government help, yet refuses to help women who don't wear burkas (on religious grounds)?
Can't we all see the extreme stupidity of the Catholic position here? Or are they the only religious group that is special enough to dictate the rules for all other persons, whether or not such persons are part of their group? Don't forget: every one of the hospitals the subject of this conversation receives millions of dollars in federal aid: Medicare, Medicaid, Hill-Burton, and money for research and vaccines. They want it both ways: to get federal help, yet dictate their own rules. As is obvious, this hits a deep nerve with me.
No offense to any Catholic lay person who is not trying to shove this down everyone else's throat. After all, around 98% of all Catholic women use birth control, and I am guessing the same percentage of Catholic men do not want a baby to be produced every time they have sex.
The irony of being against contraception and ALSO being against abortions is beyond acceptable: this is the 21st century, not the 7th century.
Important Point:
ReplyDeleteIf the hospitals and universities accept Federal funds in ANY manner --and that includes Medicare and Medicaid----then they should be denied those funds if they choose to NOT accept Federal law.
If it is against their religion, I respect that tho I don't agree with them. However, to accept Federal funds is the same as asking the Federal government to support their specific religion.
Seperation of church and state means the government cannot support ANY specific religion that is accepting money from the government unless it accepts secular law.
The war on women continues - some strange bedfellows around when keeping women barefoot and pregnant is the plan.
ReplyDeleteThing is - 99% of women disagree with the plan. The law of never ending pregnancy stopped cold when women, at last, were able to take over the preventing pregnancy role. I will NEVER forget the emotional outpouring of gratitude when women finally had the means to control whether or not they became pregnant.
Men have been trying (without success) to take this away from women since the 1960s.
It's a war they won't win. The % of women supporting the President will only increase if this sh.. remains in the political arena.
I disagree, Olivia. The pedo scandal is old news.
ReplyDeleteTry reading this:
http://pandagon.net/index.php/site/comments/the-real-divide-here-is-on-gender-not-catholicism
As usual, Marcotte nails it when it comes to exposing the patriarchy.
Virginia Voter - you are likely still on the rolls - time to get yourself excommunicated and stop them from using you to bolster their numbers.
ReplyDeleteI believe the Catholic Church and the Republicans are really trying to lower the cost of Health insurance by promoting another form of contraception which never produces a zygote, and is practiced by repblican pols on the rest of us and developed and refined by catholic priests on young boys and children. You know what I'm talking about, it's the same thing that creates and defines the Santorum of the GOP. Need I mention it. Those bastards don't even have the grace to use vasoline.
ReplyDeleteMany of these institutions have been complying with these EXACT SAME REGULATIONS for years, since the EEOC ruled in 2000 that if you offered prescription drug coverage to employees, it had to include contraception, or it would be a violation of Title IX. Also, 28 states have the requirement on the books.
ReplyDeleteThis is a fake controversy.