Morality is not determined by the church you attend nor the faith you embrace. It is determined by the quality of your character and the positive impact you have on those you meet along your journey
Love that! The UCC is the most welcoming and forward thinking denomination out there. When they join the Brethren in pushing for peace, they will be the best!!
That doesn't sound very compassionate and lovig either. I may be more in agreement with judgments, but it's still judgmental and lacks compassion. I don't see Jesus saying that. Lucy
Oh, if only more Christian churches (the ones that actually try to follow the teachings of Christ) were more outspoken like this!
Of course, the church pictured will be examined by the IRS, while the churches promulgating hate and divisiveness will continue to enjoy their tax-free status
AKinPA said: Oh, if only more Christian churches (the ones that actually try to follow the teachings of Christ) were more outspoken like this!
I think that we should get rid of all tax deductions for churches if they want to be political, even those churches that support my beliefs. Actually, I'm for getting rid of tax deductions for churches generally. If God will provide, he'll provide for churches too.
I don't see how churches preaching against SAntorum is any more proper than churches preaching in support of Santorum, regardless of how much I agree that Santorum seems to be selective in his application of teachings.
I think that we should get rid of all tax deductions for churches
It is un-American that they do not pay their fair share. All of them. Or each individual should be a church and pay not taxes.
As it is, it is not Freedom of Religion when so many smooth talking scam artists can influence elections and rake in money from poor souls. Too much charity claims are just hype. Sure, there are good churches and Christians. Man has that corrupt part lurking inside and it has hold of too much that goes on under religion. Needs a good purge. Pedophiles hide out and are protected, too.
Santorum is a catholic and a zealot. He does not believe that other religions are the "true religion". He may talk the talk, but if elected, this country will become a catholic country. He is a zealot. When I think of santorum as POTUS, I immediately think of Queen Mary, Bloody Mary, Henry the 8th daughter, who killed hundreds of thousands trying to restore England to Rome and stamp out Protestantism.
There are plenty of churches like this. United Church of Christ is one of the more mainstream, progressive Christian denominations.
I suspect most are in the vicinity of larger cities, however. I know mine is.
The tax issue would seem to be relevant, regardless of political or non-political activity. It's obviously a holdover from days gone by and needs to be re-evaluated. In Germany, taxpayers are actually forced to pay a church tax out of every single paycheck.
I know in my community, between exemptions for the University, the hospitals and all the religious organizations, we are short on tax revenue for our public schools.
My UCC church is on a barrier island. It and a Catholic church. Unfortunately I had to move off the island after hurricane Ivan and there is no UCC on the mainland within driving distance. I miss it.
I agree that no church should be making political statements. But Santorum is making almost exclusively theological statements. And his statements are in direct contradiction to what the Bible teaches. I think this was behind the humor of the sign.
Santorum's theology is that Catholic-based institutions, including hospitals and pharmacies, can deny contraception to women consumers on the ground that somehow, the 'religious freedoms' of the Catholics behind the scenes are 'violated' when the women consumers are merely exercising their rights under the laws of this nation. Let's put Santorum's 'freedom' standard to the test. Say, for example, that Baylor Hospital in Dallas is purchased by Muslims, who then claim that their religious freedoms would be violated if they had to admit Jews – or Christians – to either the hospital or ER. Alternatively, that Barnes-Jewish Hospital in St. Louis makes the same decision, except with respect to admitting Muslims. Or that Rite-Aid Pharmacy is purchased by a group of Jehovah's Witnesses who decide that their religious freedoms would be violated if they were to sell anything that was a blood or animal-based product; and they would be given the same 'freedoms', including the right to deny blood transfusions, if they bought and took over your local hospital. Alternatively, your insurance company is purchased by a group of Christian Scientists who decide that no medical procedure can be permitted until hands-on prayer by Christian Scientists is practiced first. The potential list is endless – of groups who could claim that their religious rights were violated by granting rights to others that we now take for granted. All these examples show the sheer absurdity of the republican position, which they claim is based on their theology. So, yes, Santorum and his entire political party are long overdue for a theology lesson. But unfortunately, they are all far too proud to receive one.
To 8:17 There is a BIG BIG difference between churches talking politics, and politicians talking about the church/God. And if my tax dollars didn't support political churches (through tax deductions) I wouldn't even care about churches being political. Freedom of Association and all that. I can't imagine the circumstances in which I would vote for a President with the politics & religion of Santorum, but I do think he has a right to say any and all of what he is saying. In fact, I'm glad he's saying it. this is was we are supposed to learn about our candidates. The difference I see between him and Palin is that she talked in ways that were dangerous - encouraged violence. But it's not her religion that bothered me (well, it did, but that's not my concern for this discussion), it was her using religion to gin people up in ways likely to result in violence, and exploit racism.
I don't see how Santorum talking religion justifies a church taking political positions. Lucy
Santorum is doing his utmost to become the President of the United States. Most of what he advocates is either lies or aimed at hurting portions of our populace. JFK was Catholic and I would not hesitate to say a much better one than "frothy", yet he did not advocate turning the US into a nation run by the Vatican. Santorum seems to want to run the Vatican as well as the US. Do you really want a "Pope" frothy?
The UCC church has been out there regarding many of the social issues. Those of you who lump all churches together under the evangelical/fundamentalist banner would be better served to make allies of churches like the UCC. You and they are going the same direction - reason, tolerance and charity. There is strength in numbers. Otherwise you cede the floor to the most fanatical. To those who say that liberal churches need to be vocal, this one is. It's not the only one.
My local UCC church has been growing like crazy because we are visible. We are not big city. We are getting new members who are are fleeing conservative churches but want this kind of connection. And we are doing what we can to help make the world a better place in the here and now, not magical thinking, not where you're going after you die, not making anybody conform to specific rules, but rather doing what we can to be what Jesus taught about living in the world. Most, but not all, UCC churches are also pacifist.
We will not try to convert anybody. We will not demand you to believe anything specific. We accept everybody who wants to come. We try to come together as a positive force in the world. Everybody I know in my church does not recognize the religion pushed by folks like Santorum. Rather, horrified by it.
The criticism on the sign is to Santorum's theology, not to his politics, although he views theology and politics as one and the same. Do we want to install theology as our spolitical system? I sure don't, especially his brand of theology.
Reply to Anonymous - Unless you are arguing that only people with certain ideas shouldn't run for President, I'm not sure what your point is.
I agree with you that his ideas are whack-a-doodle, and he'd be a lousy President.
The fact that I don't wnat him for our President is irrelevant to whether I think it is improper for him to spout his stupid ideas. I put constraints on churches (due to the tax deduction making me a supporter of the church), that I don't put on politicians (although speech that incites violence as some politicians do seems to me to fall under illegal, unethical or immoral).
Frankly,I'm glad Santorum is spouting his stupid ideas. At least we know what he'll do and what we are voting for/against.
United Church of Christ ROCKS! It is the only Church that I have found in these United States that emanates the true lessons of Jesus Christ. Unfortunately, living in the State of Texas, it is difficult to find a strong UCC congregation.
Friendly Reminder!
ReplyDeleteThe Daily Show is back live this week!!
Rachel Maddow is on Letterman Monday night!!
Rachel is on the Daily Show Thursday night!!
That should be good -- Stewart & Maddow - YES!!
Love that! The UCC is the most welcoming and forward thinking denomination out there. When they join the Brethren in pushing for peace, they will be the best!!
ReplyDeleteUCC - no matter what you believe or who you are, all are welcome. Even you Gryph!
DeleteThat doesn't sound very compassionate and lovig either. I may be more in agreement with judgments, but it's still judgmental and lacks compassion. I don't see Jesus saying that.
ReplyDeleteLucy
I like that very much. I might visit a church like that. I wouldn’t join, but I might visit.
ReplyDeleteSee Jesse, you have potentially created another sky fairy believer! way to go!
DeleteOh, if only more Christian churches (the ones that actually try to follow the teachings of Christ) were more outspoken like this!
ReplyDeleteOf course, the church pictured will be examined by the IRS, while the churches promulgating hate and divisiveness will continue to enjoy their tax-free status
AKinPA said: Oh, if only more Christian churches (the ones that actually try to follow the teachings of Christ) were more outspoken like this!
ReplyDeleteI think that we should get rid of all tax deductions for churches if they want to be political, even those churches that support my beliefs. Actually, I'm for getting rid of tax deductions for churches generally. If God will provide, he'll provide for churches too.
I don't see how churches preaching against SAntorum is any more proper than churches preaching in support of Santorum, regardless of how much I agree that Santorum seems to be selective in his application of teachings.
I think that we should get rid of all tax deductions for churches
DeleteIt is un-American that they do not pay their fair share. All of them. Or each individual should be a church and pay not taxes.
As it is, it is not Freedom of Religion when so many smooth talking scam artists can influence elections and rake in money from poor souls. Too much charity claims are just hype. Sure, there are good churches and Christians. Man has that corrupt part lurking inside and it has hold of too much that goes on under religion. Needs a good purge. Pedophiles hide out and are protected, too.
Santorum is a catholic and a zealot.
ReplyDeleteHe does not believe that other religions are the "true religion". He may talk the talk, but if elected, this country will become a catholic country.
He is a zealot.
When I think of santorum as POTUS, I immediately think of Queen Mary, Bloody Mary, Henry the 8th daughter, who killed hundreds of thousands trying to restore England to Rome and stamp out Protestantism.
Do you really think that santorum could make matters worse than they already are? I mean really, over 60% in your country don't believe in evolution!
DeleteThere are plenty of churches like this. United Church of Christ is one of the more mainstream, progressive Christian denominations.
ReplyDeleteI suspect most are in the vicinity of larger cities, however. I know mine is.
The tax issue would seem to be relevant, regardless of political or non-political activity. It's obviously a holdover from days gone by and needs to be re-evaluated. In Germany, taxpayers are actually forced to pay a church tax out of every single paycheck.
I know in my community, between exemptions for the University, the hospitals and all the religious organizations, we are short on tax revenue for our public schools.
My UCC church is on a barrier island. It and a Catholic church. Unfortunately I had to move off the island after hurricane Ivan and there is no UCC on the mainland within driving distance. I miss it.
DeleteAnd stay there Rick. Seriously, don't give the door an opportunity to hit you on the ass on your way out.
ReplyDeleteI agree that no church should be making political statements. But Santorum is making almost exclusively theological statements. And his statements are in direct contradiction to what the Bible teaches. I think this was behind the humor of the sign.
ReplyDeleteSantorum's theology is that Catholic-based institutions, including hospitals and pharmacies, can deny contraception to women consumers on the ground that somehow, the 'religious freedoms' of the Catholics behind the scenes are 'violated' when the women consumers are merely exercising their rights under the laws of this nation. Let's put Santorum's 'freedom' standard to the test. Say, for example, that Baylor Hospital in Dallas is purchased by Muslims, who then claim that their religious freedoms would be violated if they had to admit Jews – or Christians – to either the hospital or ER. Alternatively, that Barnes-Jewish Hospital in St. Louis makes the same decision, except with respect to admitting Muslims. Or that Rite-Aid Pharmacy is purchased by a group of Jehovah's Witnesses who decide that their religious freedoms would be violated if they were to sell anything that was a blood or animal-based product; and they would be given the same 'freedoms', including the right to deny blood transfusions, if they bought and took over your local hospital. Alternatively, your insurance company is purchased by a group of Christian Scientists who decide that no medical procedure can be permitted until hands-on prayer by Christian Scientists is practiced first. The potential list is endless – of groups who could claim that their religious rights were violated by granting rights to others that we now take for granted. All these examples show the sheer absurdity of the republican position, which they claim is based on their theology. So, yes, Santorum and his entire political party are long overdue for a theology lesson. But unfortunately, they are all far too proud to receive one.
I wholeheartedly agree with you. Thanks for your comment.
DeleteYay, that's my denomination and I am so proud of them!!
ReplyDelete"WE" and "YOU" don't need more churches of any kind! But I get the joke.
ReplyDeleteAn atheist, really? But you're so low key about it, Jesse.
ReplyDeleteHe also needs lessons in history, science, psychology, sociology...
ReplyDeleteTo 8:17 There is a BIG BIG difference between churches talking politics, and politicians talking about the church/God. And if my tax dollars didn't support political churches (through tax deductions) I wouldn't even care about churches being political. Freedom of Association and all that.
ReplyDeleteI can't imagine the circumstances in which I would vote for a President with the politics & religion of Santorum, but I do think he has a right to say any and all of what he is saying. In fact, I'm glad he's saying it. this is was we are supposed to learn about our candidates. The difference I see between him and Palin is that she talked in ways that were dangerous - encouraged violence. But it's not her religion that bothered me (well, it did, but that's not my concern for this discussion), it was her using religion to gin people up in ways likely to result in violence, and exploit racism.
I don't see how Santorum talking religion justifies a church taking political positions.
Lucy
Santorum is doing his utmost to become the President of the United States. Most of what he advocates is either lies or aimed at hurting portions of our populace. JFK was Catholic and I would not hesitate to say a much better one than "frothy", yet he did not advocate turning the US into a nation run by the Vatican.
DeleteSantorum seems to want to run the Vatican as well as the US. Do you really want a "Pope" frothy?
The UCC church has been out there regarding many of the social issues. Those of you who lump all churches together under the evangelical/fundamentalist banner would be better served to make allies of churches like the UCC. You and they are going the same direction - reason, tolerance and charity. There is strength in numbers. Otherwise you cede the floor to the most fanatical. To those who say that liberal churches need to be vocal, this one is. It's not the only one.
DeleteMy local UCC church has been growing like crazy because we are visible. We are not big city. We are getting new members who are are fleeing conservative churches but want this kind of connection. And we are doing what we can to help make the world a better place in the here and now, not magical thinking, not where you're going after you die, not making anybody conform to specific rules, but rather doing what we can to be what Jesus taught about living in the world. Most, but not all, UCC churches are also pacifist.
We will not try to convert anybody. We will not demand you to believe anything specific. We accept everybody who wants to come. We try to come together as a positive force in the world. Everybody I know in my church does not recognize the religion pushed by folks like Santorum. Rather, horrified by it.
The criticism on the sign is to Santorum's theology, not to his politics, although he views theology and politics as one and the same. Do we want to install theology as our spolitical system? I sure don't, especially his brand of theology.
Reply to Anonymous -
DeleteUnless you are arguing that only people with certain ideas shouldn't run for President, I'm not sure what your point is.
I agree with you that his ideas are whack-a-doodle, and he'd be a lousy President.
The fact that I don't wnat him for our President is irrelevant to whether I think it is improper for him to spout his stupid ideas. I put constraints on churches (due to the tax deduction making me a supporter of the church), that I don't put on politicians (although speech that incites violence as some politicians do seems to me to fall under illegal, unethical or immoral).
Frankly,I'm glad Santorum is spouting his stupid ideas. At least we know what he'll do and what we are voting for/against.
Perhaps I have missed your point.
United Church of Christ ROCKS! It is the only Church that I have found in these United States that emanates the true lessons of Jesus Christ. Unfortunately, living in the State of Texas, it is difficult to find a strong UCC congregation.
ReplyDeleteI just love the sarcasm!!
ReplyDeleteVery Funny.