Seeing those kids walking out of this presentation is how I envision the response by Christians to some of my religious posts.
You know like this one.
What Savage says at the end of this video reflects almost EXACTLY my position when I write a post about how organized religion is negatively impacting the lives of many Americans.
What school is this? Some 'Christian' or Catholic school? Where? In Texas? What I see is some of the kids wanting to get out of a lecture, so they get up and leave. Sad, really.
ReplyDeleteI agree that organized religion can and does negatively impact the lives of many Americans. Not all of us Christians participate in organized religion. Some of us follow one simple rule of Christ: Above all else, love one another. Seems like a good thing to me and pretty much covers everything.
ReplyDeleteI object only to you, Gryphen, painting us all with the same brush. It would be like me painting all atheists or all Islamists with the same brush. I am one of many Christians who believe adamntly in the separation of church and state. Furthermore, I am horrified at the dumbing down of America with the current anti-science push in academics. I also think it is quite arrogant to believe that God spoke only to Christians. So there you have it. You seem to think all Christians are of the Jerry Prevo variety. That fool is anything but Christian.
Unfortunately , no one, except these types of xtians are speaking out or is it the reichwing media controlling the over all message?. Why is that? I happen to be friends with 2 very progressive catholic priests, that hvae stood on union picket lines supporting the worker, that have tried to get the "love your neighbor" aspect of their churches front and center in their communities and yet the only ones getting any press are the extremists.
DeleteWhat are you and similar Christians doing to let others know that the Talibangelicals aren't the main religion? Until there is widespread, loud, pointed and frequent push back, all Christians will be painted with these people's colors because that's all that is seen.
DeleteI'm wondering when the AME church and others will stand up and say "that's a lie!" when the right repeats their foolish "Obama is a Muslim" idiocy. So far, if they've said anything, it's been quiet and meek enough that the news hasn't gotten out.
BTW, I think Dan Savage nails it.
ReplyDeleteHe usually does!
DeleteHe does, and now, according to the Pee Pond, Brietbart/Bannon's next project is an attack against him.
DeletePretty certain that this is the exact moment that Breitbart.com is referring to with their screaming headline 'Anti-bullying advocate Dan Savage bullies students with anti-Christian attack' or very similar headline! Can you BELIEVE that gall? That pointing out ANY thing wrong with the bible is now 'bullying' according to the right. Gryphen I'm sorry; at this stage with the country actually being influenced by this tripe I see no hope in the near future for America :(. It's already an Orwellian world where black is white and up is down. Chains are freedom and willingly attending a speech which you can walk out of at any time is being bullied but actually bullying a gay classmate is exercising religious freedom. Obama is a racist and those posting menacing fake photos of Trayvon whilst calling him a thug and implying he deserved it are just 'truth seekers'.
ReplyDeleteIt makes me ill
Keep standing up, even if your head hurts from the nonsense.
DeleteThis is how Fox News spins it.
ReplyDeletehttp://nation.foxnews.com/war-religion/2012/04/27/anti-bullying-activist-curses-mocks-christian-teens
It's the Christianist/Republican thing to do: Don't agree? Don't listen, get up and leave. Facts and reason have no place when discussing the Bible and their cafeteria approach to religion. These kids learned this behavior, from their parents and their church. How disrespectful and arrogant of them to stand up, turn around and leave in the middle of a guest's address. Seems they need to study that Bible some more and learn about hospitality and respect for elders.
ReplyDeleteO/T Gryphen, I thought you might be interested in this article: it seems to validate your theory about "Ruffles" and the several Trig stand-ins used in the first year of the mythical Trig.
ReplyDeletehttp://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/30/11467956-listen-up-criminals-earprints-lead-german-cops-to-alleged-serial-burglar?lite?ocid=twitter
Game Changers Steve Schmidt and Woody Harrelson party together at an Elite Washington-Insider Hollywood event in Washington.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.politico.com/blogs/click/2012/04/woody-harrelson-steve-schmidt-party-together-121919.html
What could possibly be the harm in listening to a viewpoint with which you believe you don't agree? I routinely read conservative opinions and I don't feel threatened by them in any way.
ReplyDeleteThe kind of people who would leave a lecture like this -- ones who are afraid to entertain opinions different than theirs -- want to continue to believe that the world is black and white, good and evil and nothing in between. It keeps things simple, saves time, and allows them to continue to feel superior.
They have forgotten that the Bible is for THEM – assuming they chose to believe it. There is nothing in the Bible that says "control the behavior of your next-door neighbor": it is all about "control your OWN behavior, and LOVE your next door neighbor". They have it exactly backwards: They refuse to control their own behavior and mouths, HATE their next-door neighbor, and try to control him/her/them. The Bible says that one proof of belonging to God is "self-control" – the exact opposite quality of trying to control everyone else. (Galatians 5:23). Thus, according to the Bible, bullying is the very antithesis of Christianity.
DeleteIF they believe the Bible, why aren't they living it? I submit it's because they really don't believe it: they merely use it for a rationalization, a bad one (because mis-applied), for their own bad behavior. If they truly believed it, they would be living like Christ commanded.
Gryphen, if you would stop your blind rage against all forms and fashions of religions for one second, you would realize something which many of us have tried to convey to you- THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A FOLLOWER OF CHRIST and a "RELIGIOUS" PERSON.
ReplyDeleteWe don't "walk out" of your posts about religion because we can't abide dissenting viewpoints. We do it because you refuse to stop painting us all with the same broad, Palin-soaked brush.
The fact is, real Christians AGREE with Savage. Nothing has hurt the cause of Christ more than organized religion. The more "religion" infects and permeates our schools, politics, and society- the further away we get from the core teachings and values of Jesus.
REAL Christians know that God loves and created gay people exactly the same as He does with straight people.
All we are asking for from you, Gryphen, is to recognize Jesus and Religion are two completely different things. Those of us who love Jesus usually want nothing to do with "religion".
Well said Nyah.
Delete"The more "religion" infects and permeates our schools, politics, and society- the further away we get from the core teachings and values of Jesus."
DeleteNyah: Your points hits the nail on the head. And this is exactly what has been happening over the last 30 years or so, since Reagan and the evangelicals started seriously infiltrating politics.
When we have, for example, the fundamentalist worldview determining the content of public school textbooks (as I think was reported here a day or two ago) and states passing draconian anti-woman laws (see Arizona and Tennessee, for ex.)... and an extreme religious conservative like Rick Santorum is seriously considered as a presidential candidate--we have compelling evidence that the infection of the religionists/dominionists/xtians into our nation's public life is quite far along.
Why are you angry with Gryphen? He isn't telling you what you should/should not believe. He is pointing out the huge amount of damage that the hard-core xtian right has inflicted on our nation. It has polarized Americans to a huge degree--the kids walking out of Savage's talk is a case in point.
When I was a kid in the 60s/70s, religion was not a big deal. One side of my family was conservative Catholics, another side were middle-of-the-road Protestants, and yet another group were liberal Jews. I cannot recall any disagreement among my relatives that was religious in nature (political disagreements, yes--but that's another story). I see much less of this type of tolerance today coming from the far-right conservative Christians. (Notice that I specified a particular branch of of the religion.) Sure, they don't represent all Christians, but the problem is they have the loudest voices (i.e., media presence) and the most insidious reach into politics and government these days.
I will defend anyone's right to believe (or not believe) in the god of their own choosing (as I do). But I also believe the world would be a far better place without religion. Recent events and the history of civilization provide ample evidence of the damage that religion does. I think this is the point Gryphen is trying to make.
-Anne in CO
Thank you Skycatcher, very well said.
DeleteYou said it. People like those are the ones who DROVE ME OUT of the Christian Church. I will never go back to organized religion: it's all about controlling people and milking them of their money too: witness all those investments and properties churches here own when I THOUGHT THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO BE FOCUSING ON HELPING OTHERS VIA CHARITY. The historical Christ, as opposed to this 'super hero, militant, side-choosing' Christ they have made up, would not recognize these people as his followers.
DeleteM from MD
@Nyah
Delete"Blind Rage????" Oh, I see what you did there. Flipped it so us non-believers are full of hate and you and yours are the patient, sane ones. Judgment much?
Thanks, Anne. Your comment speaks volumes, and your observation on Gryphen's motives for doing these "religion" posts is spot on. Very well put!
DeleteThey think God is watching them and they're afraid to piss him off, LOL.
ReplyDeleteIt's good to know that despite the presence of a large group of these "xtians" (who are likely to have parents that are equally intolerant) the school was still able to arrange for Dan Savage to come to speak. He had an important message. And thanks to video and the internet, I'll bet that most of those who walked out actually heard the whole thing.
ReplyDeleteImagine the kinds of emotional issues you would have if you were taught, right from the womb, 24/7, that everything in life should be framed in terms of "us versus them". Seriously. No wonder they are nut cases.
DeleteCalling this behavior christianity is an insult to true Christians everywhere. It rips out the very core concepts of the Bible: "For God so loved the world" (John 3:16), "God IS love," (1 John 4:8) and "he who does not love does not know God" (1 John 4:8).
Future CforPers fleeing the facts. Funny, if he was lecturing on anything about the "crazy, vile left" they would have stayed to listen.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of the CforP, a comment there was pretty angry at this, asking why Savage thought only LGBT were the bullied in this country. Non-critical thinkers there all agreeing energetically.
This is not how you keep an open mind, students.
Oh my god, that gay man is quoting our bible! I better close my eyes, put my hands over my ears and sing na na na na until I get my point across.
ReplyDeleteUntil the REAL Christians take a stand and pull the hands off the ears of the "fundamental Christians" and repeatedly
tell them that what they are told in church is not the whole bible, this type of behavior will continue
Dan Savage Points Out Hypocrisy in the Bible, Right-Wing Groups Spring Into Action
ReplyDeletehttp://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/04/30/1087524/-Dan-Savage-Points-Out-Hypocrisy-in-the-Bible-Right-Wing-Groups-Spring-Into-Action
One more thought: It is the genuine Christians, those who earnestly practice Jesus's teachings (and not those of the judgmental Paul or the 'God will smite thee' Old Testament), who must be front and center in the public condemning the xtian haters. Like--say, a Catholic social work organization like Catholic Charities that does much good in my community. Yet why are they not taking a loud stand against the Catholic church's institutionalized pedophilia? Where are the strong voices of the good religious people taking stands against intolerance?
ReplyDeleteThose who want to allow the xtians a seat at the table and let them be... I assure you, the xtians would not be nearly as welcoming to you or anyone else who doesn't share their super-strict 'biblical' worldview. Those folks want to run the show and they do not play well with others. We have seen this time and again. As for me, I would rather see religion fade away completely. For those who sincerely believe your religion is doing good in the world, you need to stand up for it now. It is in your interest (and not that of non-religious people) to do so.
-Anne in CO
Brava! Anne, your comment(s) say it so well. I'm an atheist and excommunicated Catholic. I live in the Philadelphia area, where clergy abuse, charter schools, and home schooling combined with "low attendance" has caused many parishes and schools to either close or merge.
DeleteThe thing is, most of the catholic schools near us, even a few slated to close, are full, and there's plenty of people attending, I honestly don't know where they'll put them.
Thing is, everyone knows they're facing huge lawyer bills and victim compensations.
I didn't see nor hear anything offensive from Dan Savage. Was it because he was pointing out the truths regarding the Bible and how it relates or doesn't to "morality" and "human behavior"?
ReplyDeleteI have to give credit to those who were open minded enough to sit through it all, because I did hear some laughing and clapping.
As a non-believer, I have friends who are believers and have the fortitude and curiosity to exchange ideas and views without "taking it personal".
When I see behavior like this, I would like to ask those who walked out, "What, exactly, do you see or hear from him, that threatens you or makes you feel uncomfortable or inferior? Fear causes this "fight or flight" reaction. I wonder what they fear?
This seemed totally staged to me as far as these students walking out. It seems that these students already had their agenda down, to attend and purposely walk out in a sort of retaliating way. I'm thinking most of them wanted to sit and listen to what Dan Savage had to actually say, but they've been manipulated into a situation that they aren't able to think for themselves or listen for themselves. They've been preached at and controlled by a very controlling religious group.
ReplyDeleteI feel very sad for these kids. Because they haven't been able mentally to have their own thoughts.
Dan Savage is a complete idiot and has only hurt his cause by attacking the Bible. I wonder if he even knows that the Christian faith aren't the only ones who disagree with that kind of sexual lifestyle? Islam is completely against that kind of sexual behavior and places like Saudi Arabia and Iran are brutal with how horrible they treat those found out. Funny how I almost never hear activists say one word about terrible things like this and I think those activists that ignore it are cowards and too afraid of how radical Muslims will react if they dare say anything but I guess those activists that do remain silent are very selective of the human rights they claim to care about which to me makes them insincere and phony. I think it's wrong to bully anyone however once again Dan Savage has completely hurt his cause and acted like a complete jerk with his attacks on the Bible. I wonder what he would say if he ever read the Quran?
ReplyDelete