Christians were nailed to crosses in the Philippines today in a grim Good Friday (I know this is a day late, but it took me until today to keep the bile down long enough to write this) reenactment of Jesus's suffering.
Thousands of people watched as 17 devoted Catholics were 'crucified' in the gruesome annual ritual.
Church leaders have condemned the practice which they believe are a distortion of the true Easter message. (Really? It sounds a little TOO undistorted to me!)
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| "Oh I see you got your nails done!" |
The annual event - which dates back to the 1950s - drew an estimated crowd of 10,000 worshippers.
What the hell America? I thought we were the "can do" nation.
How could religious Americans possibly allow some backwater Philippine island folk "out Christ" them like this?
Rubbing soot on our foreheads, speaking gibberish, eating croutons while washing it down with Kool-aid and calling it the flesh and blood of Christ, teaching our children that science is the work of Satan, refusing to watch porn on Sundays, and then hiding baskets of colored shell covered unfertilized chicken embryos (Remember, life begins at menstruation kiddies!) for our children to find on Easter, is that what we call religious commitment?
These people are LITERALLY nailing themselves to the cross in order to get closer to God (As well as getting closer to the possibility of gangrene), and in the process making Americans look like slackers.
Come on Americans! This is the country of extreme snowboarding, extreme skateboarding, and extreme college drinking, how can we turn our back on the opportunity to participate in a little extreme Christianity?
After all WWJD? Actually I guess I should change that to WDJD?
P.S. If your stomach can take it, and if it can it is stronger than mine, there is a video at the link. But don't say I didn't warn you.
"Rubbing soot on our foreheads, speaking gibberish, eating croutons while washing it down with Kool-aid and calling it the flesh and blood of Christ..."
ReplyDelete__________________
Sadly Gryph, you forgot molesting/ abusing children in the centuries old tradition of the Holy Roman Catholic Church.
Oh and the worst crimes of all...?
The cover up. The fish rots from the head down.
Looking' at you Cardinal Ratzenberger!
Isn't that Sarah Palin or one of her daughters?
DeleteWho suffers more?
SATURDAY, APRIL 07, 2012
Crazy Days and Nights
Bristol Palin Says Levi Johnston Owes $38K In Child Support
http://www.crazydaysandnights.net/2012/04/bristol-palin-says-levi-johnston-owes.html
Okay obviously I wrote this post with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek.
ReplyDeleteI have been looking at those pictures for two days and all I can do is shake my head at the primitive nature of this ritual.
Just when I am positive I live in the 21st century I see something like this and it reminds me of just how far we all still have yet to go.
There are many versions of Roman Catholic fanaticism, ranging from the Santorum version to what's current in the Philippines. It helps to know some history before engaging in blanket condemnation.
DeleteThere are a number of other versions of Christian fanaticism, from the idiots who demonstrate at soldiers' funerals to the idiots who display posters of fetuses to the idiots who kidnap children from their Sunday school to teach them about terrorists. Catholics don't have a lock on christian crazy.
And christians don't have a lock on religioius fanaticism. Anyone in Darfur or New York can testify to that. Religion can be, and has been, used to justify any outrageous human action you can think of. Slavery for example.
But you know that.
There are many versions of Roman Catholic fanaticism, ranging from the Santorum version to what's current in the Philippines. It helps to know some history before engaging in blanket condemnation.
DeleteThere are a number of other versions of Christian fanaticism, from the idiots who demonstrate at soldiers' funerals to the idiots who display posters of fetuses to the idiots who kidnap children from their Sunday school to teach them about terrorists. Catholics don't have a lock on christian crazy.
And christians don't have a lock on religioius fanaticism. Anyone in Darfur or New York can testify to that. Religion can be, and has been, used to justify any outrageous human action you can think of. Slavery for example.
But you know that.
Been done for years.
DeleteTotally masochistic though because, there is absolutely no indicator that JC wants people to do this; I bet he'd be pretty pleased if everyone just stopped fighting for a day, for an hour.
Also, I was taught that when crucified, the nail (and it was more like a spike with JC), is hammered in the wrist because the nail would simply rip through the palm if the person pulled hard enough.
Also, JC was beaten to a pulp and THEN given so many lashes his outside looked like his inside.
If you're gonna do it, do it right!
Yeah, didn't think so.
Crown of thorns? Again, not like your rose bushes. These were three to four inch spikes that were hammered into JC's head.
Surely there are less blasphemous ways to exercise one's masochistic tendencies. But I've always suspected that so many of these people who are fixated on the crucifixion were just one good verse away from buying a ball gag.
ReplyDeletePeople who believe absurdities will commit atrocities.
DeleteOk, I want to do this to everyone of the bishops and archbishops and the Nazi pope that have committed, aided, abetted, denied, and covered up child abuse. I want to be the one who pounds the nails in their hands and feet. Someone else can drive the spear through their hearts.
ReplyDeleteCan you tell I am a Catholic school alumna?
I find non-Christians get particularly riled up during Holy Week, at least my non-Christian relatives do. They can be downright hostile. Typically they are disrespectful, if nothing else.
ReplyDeleteYou don't have to understand this, but you could withhold comment if you don't like it.
No one forced you to look at these pictures. You look at them because they reinforce your ideas about Christianity, which are primarily negative.
Christ's suffering is one of the holiest aspects of our faith. And yes, these people feel they are closer to Jesus in going through a crucifixion, as he did.
That is their right.
Just as it is your right to obsess about science and stew in your rage against Christianity. Knock yourself out.
"You don't have to understand this, but you could withhold comment if you don't like it."
Deleteit's completely irrational. are you seriously trying to say that people should nail themselves to the cross if it makes them feel closer to jesus' experience? INSANE.
I guess I'm the exception to the "rule". I don't get riled up during "Holy Week", because it's not "Holy" to me.
DeleteI DO see a lot of Christians get riled up on Halloween, and boastfully join in on Pagan Celebrations.
I do get the "No one forced you to look at these pictures" - it's usually associated with "Pornography".
"You don't have to understand this, but you could withhold comment if you like"
Anal Retentive much?
>>Christ's suffering is one of the holiest aspects of our faith.
DeleteThat is so sick and twisted, I gotta say. What is holy about men abusing men? What is holy about some made up story from 2000 years ago? What is holy about a public torture and murder. It's vile and disgusting and NOT holy in any sense of the word. You base your entire existence on a lie, a horror story that would make horror movie makers cream in their pants. YOU are why there is such strife and horror in the world, perpetuating the bullshit that you do and calling it holy, twisting it to your narrative. SICK. CruciFICTION. Get it, it's a joke on you, it's FICTION but you bought it and called it holy. SICK. You all carry on about being so independent and yet you subvert your life to a fairy tale and say it's Truth. Now THAT is pathetic.
Oh fuck you. Sounds about like what the RCC says about their pedophilia, or the rampant abuse of women in the name of supposedly "enlightened" western religions.
DeleteNot to mention - funny, we secularists keep telling you that about abortion - don't like it don't have one. Birth control - don't like it - don't use it. But you keep sticking you nose in our business. Turn around is a bitch- ain't it?
Where's the blood? The guy's hands are spotless. Or have the ties cut off all circulation? I bet they stopped short of the spear to the heart moment?
ReplyDeleteHey, the weekend isn't over yet... There could be eight or ten black church burnings in the Mississippi Delta by Sundays end !!
ReplyDeleteIs this the same village that set a world's record for performing the most circumcisms in one day?
ReplyDeleteDoesn't Tim Tebow do that on his 'mission trips?'
DeletePersonally, I CAN believe it, given America's recent penchant for electing chicken-hawks to office, you know, two terms in a row...but who's counting.
ReplyDeleteIt does look more like they are using a Torx weather resistant 4" screw with a T-25 bit. Much easier in and out than a hand hammered nail - wonder if they drill a pilot hole - haha - assholes - I'm still pissed the christians stole the easter bunny and easter eggs after they killed all the pagans.
ReplyDeleteCatholicism in the Philippines is unique with many carryovers from earlier beliefs. It is also fertile ground for recruiting new nuns and priests. These days most catholic schools in Hawaii have predominantly Filipino staff. Only a matter of time before crucifixion copiers appear here.
ReplyDeleteGryphen, when will you stop offending your many TRUE Christian readers by lumping us together with these sick freaks?
ReplyDeleteEven you, JayKen Knotstirred, one of my favorite regulars here- why would you condemn ALL of us for the acts of the catholic church?
I, like many Christians, believe Jesus would despise "organized religion" and certainly not approve of the church doing so much harm in His name.
I'm really a little sick of having my beliefs, my intellect, and my overall value as a human being condemned here simply because I believe in a God who loves us.
If I am an academic who can merge these two worlds successfully and still have peace in my heart, surely you, Gryphen, as an atheist can do the same.
is it rational to believe that a HUMAN (who may or may not have existed - no proof) died on the cross to absolve the entire human race of its "sins"? it's completely irrational to believe such a tale, so there is no reason to be upset that people would point out the absurdity of the situation.
Deletethe story of jesus is the story of the sun, and is the same story of dozens of "gods" that existed before him. 12 disciples, performed miracles, born of a virgin, etc... same old story, nothing new there.
You lose your ENTIRE argument when you call yourself a TRUE Christian. What makes you any better, how dare you sit in judgement if you are a TRUE Christian. If you have to label yourself as such, it's unlikely that you live any sort of an authentic christian life or you would NOT have to trumpet it.
DeleteAnd if you are in any way insulted or offended, then you are clearly NOT secure in your so called beliefs, or Gryphen wouldn't be able to jar you. You're another one of those arrogant assholes that calls themselves 'christian' when in fact you just demonstrated your utter lack of Christ Consciousness.
And PS. it's Gryphen's blog, and he is allowed to write whatever he wants. You know what his world view is, you know how he views organized religion, so why bitch except to hear yourself bitch.
Don't come here if you can't stomach the contents. Again, you're showing your non christian self there, your intolerance, your lack of love and your judgemental nature.
You are a very poor example for what could be called 'Christian' and Jesus would be the FIRST to call you out. I'll be the second. You are called out. You are a SANCTIMONIOUS poser.
Emrysa, after more careful reading of the comments I should clarify that my reply to "the two of you" should really go all toward anonymous 10:40 and not at all toward you. You simply stated your personal opinion without name calling and completely uncalled for vitriol- so I apologize for addressing my response to you when it should have only been directed to 10:40.
DeleteJesus was real.
DeleteUneducated fools keep trying to call His existence a fairy tale.
They. Are. Wrong.
Jesus was real. So was Mohammed. What is troubling about the
Deleteborn agains and the evangelicals is that they are so cock-sure that their beliefs are the only 'right' ones that any other belief has to be evil. I tend to believe that God created all of us, gave us free will and a brain, and therefore we are all praying to the same Go, no matter what we call him. I can't see the Bible as infallible because every religion has a sacred 'book,' and they were all written by men...men with an agenda.
Gryphen, why did you post my follow up to the reply for anon 10:40 but not the ACTUAL REPLY? I certainly didn't say anything inflammatory or off color.
DeleteThe short version of what I wrote, which for some reason Gryphen didn't post-
I am VERY secure in my faith. I believe we as humans should love one another and take care of each other with dignity and compassion. Jesus said the same. Therefore, I like Him. Not complicated, not judgmental, and certainly not sanctimonious.
But 10:40, your over the top hatred toward me just because we disagree about one thing in this great big life- tells me you are the one who may be "insecure" about something.
>>I am VERY secure in my faith. I believe we as humans should love one another and take care of each other with dignity and compassion. Jesus said the same. Therefore, I like Him. Not complicated, not judgmental, and certainly not sanctimonious.
DeleteBut 10:40, your over the top hatred toward me just because we disagree about one thing in this great big life- tells me you are the one who may be "insecure" about something.
There is nothing hateful about what 10:40 said, but this is what 'christians' fall back on when they have no leg to stand on. Because someone questions them outside of their little circle of agreement, it's labeled as hate. Sarah Palin does the exact same thing.
Over the top? HA! Again, you reveal your ultrasensitivity to someone questioning your beliefs. I have no problem whatsoever with what someone believes, as long as they aren't arrogant about it. As long as they don't use it to bash and diminish, which is EXACTLY what you are doing.
Coming to Gryphen's blog and bashing him. You ARE sanctimonious whether you cop to it or not, you are.
Gryphen opens up the conversation and you dump your toxic view into it. Secure in your faith? Not hardly, or you wouldn't have to whine and carry on like you do.
It's so typical of too many who call themselves 'christian' to do this and I'm GODDAMNED sick and tired of it. You blindly follow and then get all fussy when someone calls it like THEY see it. If you were secure in your faith and in yourself, you would NOT have the need to do that. So, I rest my case.
I have known some TRUE Christians in my day and YOU are not behaving at all like they do. They are loving, accepting, tolerant and kind...not any of the behavior that you are exhibiting in the name of Jesus. You call it hate, I call it INTELLIGENCE.
>>I believe we as humans should love one another and take care of each other with dignity and compassion.
DeleteYeah, well I can do that without believing in the Christian fairytale or Jesus. I can do that because I CHOOSE to, not because of what someone indoctrinated me into believing. Why do you have to be led around my your nose to know what is right and wrong? It's in your soul if you just look inward instead of looking outward to validate your self.
I'm not convinced at all of your security in your faith, because your butt hurt response tells on you otherwise. But then, you are the one who is carrying on, so it's not surprising at all.
Nyah,
DeleteI hear you and I don't think what you wrote was out of line at all, Gryphen will always do what he wants in the end, but you have your opinion.
The Vicious and Nasty response is alarming.
These people try and claim they know right from wrong,
But viciously lash out at an anonymous poster stating their opinion?
Ugly.
Anyway, Nyah, don't take it to heart. They are not kind, educated or open ~ minded.
"Christians" are wusses compared to Catholics. Faux crucifixion is the least of it.
ReplyDeleteCatholics aren't Christian?
DeleteI had to leave Catholicism in my mid-twenties (30 years ago) because i could not get down with worshiping the Pope. In my mind, it wasn't right to treat him as more than just the head of a religion.
DeletePurgatory also bothered me because i knew a lot of Catholics who relished the thought of a 'second chance', but wouldn't follow along with the inconvenient tenants of the church ~ such as regular Mass and abstinence as birth control.
... decided i would be an Ancient Agnostic because they were merely knowledge seekers.
now that's faith!
ReplyDeletecome on sarah, prove you love god
"P.S. If your stomach can take it, and if it can it is stronger than mine, there is a video at the link. But don't say I didn't warn you."
ReplyDeleteNO THANKS! I'd rather watch Baldy on the Today Show looking like a halibut out of water than this nonsense!
hey I just want to know...
ReplyDeleteif jesus was killed with a gun, would people be wearing gun jewelry and having shooting re-enactments? I mean really this irrational shit is fucked up.
Don't they do that already? Don't retreat--reload? And all that?Who needs Jesus when you have a gun!
DeleteRight back atcha Sarah/Bristol.
DeleteRight back atcha Sarah/Bristol.
DeleteJehovah's Witnesses do not glorify the cross for the exact reason you stated, emyrsa.
DeleteTo them, it's the same as worshiping guns and bullets which are only the method of one's death.
8:16~
DeleteAre you insane?
This thread doesn't have anything to do with the Palins.
But nice unforced error in showing how ridiculous you are.
Yup, sure, this is Sarah Palin.
Yes.
You are incredibly clever.
I will remember how clever you are when reading your comments.
I enjoy the picnic of the group in some museum using jesus on the cross as the Y in YMCA.
ReplyDeleteHappy Dead Jew on stick day!
ReplyDeleteYour sick..and mistaken. Jews celebrate Passover, not Easter and the crucifixion.
DeleteW.o.w.
DeleteReally?
You sound very kind.
12:08 - Jesus was a Jew.
Delete>>Jews celebrate Passover, not Easter and the crucifixion.
DeleteHello? Jesus was a Jew. The poster, though crass, was exactly correct and YOU are the one who is mistaken. I get so sick and tired of you so called 'christians' being such assholes.
This doesn't surprise me in the least. I've seen people in Spain and Italy marching in what look like embroidered kkk headdresses (for anonymity) acting out the stations of the cross, marching in the streets barefoot, whipping their own backs to the point where muscles are separated from ligaments and bones become visible, they wail out in pain and douse the wounds in white wine. The women walk barefoot on jagged rocks, wiping blood from the bodies while crowds of thousands watch and pray the rosary.
ReplyDeleteTo what point do these people think this makes them more pure? more Christ like?" Can't they read the stories and get the same idea?
And these same people are against body piercing and tattoos because "the body is the temple of Christ".
I don't get it.
It's called cognitive dissonance.
DeleteThe infliction of pain as a path to spiritual enlightenment has been known across cultures and time; not just in branches of Christianity, but also in Islam, Hinduism, as well as in the rituals of other societies, according to their beliefs. You might think of the body piercing performed during the Plains Indians’ Sun Dance; Hindu yogis fire walking, body scarification among African tribal religions and Christian flagellation and so on.
ReplyDeleteI couldn't watch it (or take part) myself. On the other hand, neither do I feel in any position to comment on the the value of the practice to those for whom it has some deep meaning.
Thank you Nyah @ 8:21. I was coming here to post similar sentiment.
ReplyDeleteGryphen, you have gone far beyond simply expressing your differing opinion. You have mocked your many true Christian readers and you have done so on a weekend that we hold as beloved and meaningful. You took your reaction to a bunch of extremists and used it as an ok to go ahead and insult and mock a large number of good people who follow the fine, moral teachings of Jesus. I found this post to be a terrible shame and I'm sorry I read it because it left me quite saddened.
I am sorry you felt that way.
DeleteI used humor to deal with something that I find deeply disturbing in this day and age, and which I also believe is indicative of the kinds of things that happen within the Christian faith far more frequently than most religious people would care to accept.
Speaking in tongues, snake handling, faith healing, exorcisms, and imprecatory prayers are still very commonplace here in America.
Should these things not be discussed in polite society? Would you suggest we censor any discussion of them on this blog?
Here we go again with the 'true' Christian crap. Buck up, buttercup, you are a GUEST on Gryphen's blog. Your opinion and your ultrasensitive feelings are NO MORE IMPORTANT than any one else's here, and NOWHERE as important as Gryphen's. It's his blog, if you don't like what you read here, fuck off! It's that simple.
DeleteWhy do we need to hear your pissing and moaning and hurt feelings? Take your beliefs and do what you want with them, but STOP inflicting them on everyone as if they are Truth. They are not. They are beliefs that you chose to believe. That's it.
It's easy to mock the absurd.
And now you get all ruffly in your sanctimonious feathers and carry on like a stuck pig, squealing about some feigned outrage.
Grow up, and take responsibility for your choice to believe a fairy tale and base your sorry life on it, instead of taking Gryphen to task on him calling it like he sees it.
I swear, you 'christians' really are a piece of work, using your religious beliefs as a basis to bash and calling yourself a 'true' Christian. You and Karl Rove should hook up, seems you speak the same language. Shameful.
Here's a simple reminder:
Delete'Morality is not determined by the church you attend nor the faith you embrace. It is determined by the quality of your character and the positive impact you have on those you meet along your journey.'
I would venture to say Gryphen embodies a far more 'christian' life than you ever will. This statement that he has front and center on his blog is testament to that.
I'm glad that Gryphen is true to himself and truthful in how he sees things. We all come to this blog to hear his thoughts and ideas and share ours with him. Your feelings are your own to take care of, not to inflict on others.
It never fails that those who call themselves 'true' Christians, are usually the ones exhibiting some sort of behavior that instantly points to their lack of christian principles.
You don't discuss with humor, Gryphen, so much as you ridicule Christians, as in your unsupportable statement that snake handling is commonplace. Snake-handling garners publicity because it's freakish. It's not commonplace, and you know that.
DeleteA similar analogy would be for me to conclude that all Alaskans are lazy, avaricious, uneducated rubes, because a very visible Alaskan has demonstrated those qualities. She's freakish, too, which is why reading about her discomfiture is a guilty pleasure for many of us. Even so, most of us know she's not a typical Alaskan, nor a typical Christian, nor a typical mother, nor anything else within normal limits.
Acknowledge the fringes, yes, but don't throw away the good with the bad. If you haven't found any goodness in religious faith, you haven't looked out far nor in deep enough.
I dont' think that. I don't make classist analogies, so I don't understand why you do. Clearly, you're not a stupid man; that's why your attitude on this topic has baffled so many of your readers.
>>>as in your unsupportable statement that snake handling is commonplace.
DeleteLooks like Gryphen did his homework and you didn't. You were conveniently cherry picking to support your theory, but you were wrong, even with your cherry picking:
Snake handlers today and practices
...As in the early days, worshipers are still encouraged to lay hands on the sick (cf. Faith healing), speak in tongues (cf. Glossolalia), provide testimony of miracles, and occasionally consume poisons such as strychnine.[4] Gathering mainly in homes and converted buildings, they generally adhere to strict dress codes such as uncut hair, ankle-length dresses and no cosmetics for women, and short hair and long-sleeved shirts for men. Most snake handlers preach against any use of all types of tobacco and alcohol.
Most religious snake handlers are still found in the Appalachian Mountains and other parts of the southeastern United States, especially in Alabama, Georgia, Kentucky, Tennessee, West Virginia, and Ohio. However, they are gaining greater recognition from news broadcasts, movies and books about the non-denominational movement.
In 2001 there were about 40 small churches that practiced snake handling, most of them considered to be holiness-Pentecostals or charismatics. In 2004 there were four snake handling congregations in the provinces of Alberta and British Columbia, Canada. Most, if not all, use the King James Version of the Bible, and consider other translations to be demonic or false.[citation needed] Like their predecessors, they believe in a strict and literal interpretation of the Bible. Most Church of God with Signs Following churches are non-denominational, believing that denominations are 'man made' and carry the Mark of the Beast. Worshippers attend services several nights a week. Church services, if the Holy Spirit "intervenes", can last up to five hours; the minimum is usually ninety minutes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_handling
Georgia's snake-handling churches are part of a larger movement concentrated in the central and southern Appalachian Mountains. Congregations can be found, however, from central Florida to Ohio, Indiana, and Michigan. Because there is no national organization, the exact number of members is unknown. Observers estimate that there are 50 to 100 churches nationally with a total of approximately 3,000 members. Efforts to count deaths among members who were bitten during services have been more successful. Approximately eighty people are known to have died in the twentieth century after being bitten while handling snakes. Deaths include those of three members of the churches in Kingston and Cartersville between 1978 and 1990.
DeleteThe history of snake-handling churches extends back to the early 1900s in East Tennessee. Tradition attributes the practice to George Went Hensley, a rural preacher working near Cleveland, Tennessee, around 1909. From about 1910 to 1920 snake handling was widespread in the Church of God based in Cleveland, but by the end of the 1920s the denomination had renounced the practice. From then on, it existed only in independent churches in Appalachia.
Snake handlers in Alabama and Georgia also trace their heritage to James Miller, a preacher who independently began the practice in 1912 in Sand Mountain, Alabama. Under his influence the movement spread into Berrien and Cook counties in south central Georgia by 1920. Beginning in the 1940s, several southern states, including Georgia, passed laws prohibiting snake handling in religious services. The law in Georgia developed after a six-year-old girl was bitten during a service near Adel, in Cook County. Police arrested both her father and her pastor, Warren Lipham, who later stood trial but was not convicted for the earlier death of a worshipper in 1938. In 1941 Georgia passed a law that made snake handling a felony punishable by twenty years in prison in the case of injury to another, or by the death penalty in the case of a fatality. The law was repealed in the 1960s. Today, the handling of poisonous snakes in Georgia is legal only by permit.
http://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/nge/Article.jsp?id=h-1581
Handling serpents.. healing the sick.. speaking in tongues..
Deletecasting out demons.. drinking poison.. It's all scriptural..
http://holiness-snake-handlers.webs.com/
Taking up Serpents
DeleteThe Holiness "snake handlers" grew out of the Church of God Holiness congregations in the first decades of this century. The basic doctrine which separates them from other fundamentalist groups is the idea that the presence of the Holy Ghost in their services gives them the power to heal the sick, perform exorcisms, speak in new tongues, drink poisonous or toxic substances like strychnine and battery acid, and of course handle deadly serpents. These beliefs are derived directly from Mark 16:17-18
And these signs will accompany those who believe: by using my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes in their hands, and if they drink any deadly thing, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.
Adherents are also able to cite several other biblical passages supporting their unusual beliefs and practices:
See, I have given you authority to tread on snakes and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy; and nothing will hurt you. Nevertheless, do not rejoice at this, that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven." (Luke 10:19-20)
Paul had gathered a bundle of brushwood and was putting it on the fire, when a viper, driven out by the heat, fastened itself on his hand. When the natives saw the creature hanging from his hand, they said to one another, "This man must be a murderer; though he has escaped from the sea, justice has not allowed him to live." He, however, shook off the creature into the fire and suffered no harm. They were expecting him to swell up or drop dead, but after they had waited a long time and saw that nothing unusual had happened to him, they changed their minds and began to say that he was a god. (Acts 28:3-6)
Some believers are also convinced that Jesus himself was a snake handler like them, quoting John 20:30 "Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book." The point out that Jesus is recorded as performing the other signs listed in Mark such as healing, exorcism and raising the dead - and then add that Jesus would not ask his followers to do anything which he himself would not also do.
http://atheism.about.com/library/weekly/aa081199.htm
11:21...I agree. A person's quality of character and tolerance of other's opinions make Gryphen more of a "christian" than buffalogal. I abhor these horrible rituals, I had nightmares as a kid from hearing/seeing the Easter story. If I have to do that to be saved and be a Christian...no thanks. What's so wrong about Gryphen's questions and comments?
DeleteBesides, most Americans give lip service to this religious holiday and enjoy Easter dinner and egg hunts instead.
I may disagree with some things Gryphen posts, but or is some of the over the top responses that are so sick, nasty and Intolerant that I question what jesse is trying so hard to say?
Deletedoes he support the full on assault of christian beliefs? While at the very same time he'll claim to follow Buddhism ~ which I'm sure, doesn't take to mocking Jesus Christ and his followers.
And there are far more scholars in the world that acknowledge the existence of Jesus Christ, than nasty people on blogs attempting to create their own Fairy Tale.
I pity you.
Go get an education and realize how little you know, emyrysa.
In reference to snake-handling religious practice in the Southeast, it didn't originate in a christian sect. Its roots are in the religious practices of indigenous people first encountered there. Over-zealous Bible reading combined with cultural memory produced the thing that goes on today.
DeleteCrazy then, crazy now.
Not according to what is posted on the numerous links here, so where's your backup on your statement?
DeleteAccording to what I've read it did originate in scripture and the Christian interpretation of it, so where is it that you are finding this information about indigenous people?
'The Holiness "snake handlers" grew out of the Church of God Holiness congregations in the first decades of this century. The basic doctrine which separates them from other fundamentalist groups is the idea that the presence of the Holy Ghost in their services gives them the power to heal the sick, perform exorcisms, speak in new tongues, drink poisonous or toxic substances like strychnine and battery acid, and of course handle deadly serpents. These beliefs are derived directly from Mark 16:17-18'
Again, more cherrypicking to match an agenda.
"And there are far more scholars in the world that acknowledge the existence of Jesus Christ, than nasty people on blogs attempting to create their own Fairy Tale."
DeleteWell, you've got it exactly backward. Why are so many "true Christians" afraid of learning? Why are you so threatened that 2/3 of the world's population doesn't believe as you do?
And cherry pick you did,
DeleteMy reply had nothing to do with snake handling, of which I could not care less.
I stated that there are far more scholars that recognize the existence of Jesus Christ than those who do not.
I am unable to link it using my phone, I will later.
But, though a horrible site, the Huffington Post has a few articles, and there is a recent write up by the author of a book called (I believe) "Jesus was real". If not the name of the book, it may be the name of the post.
My point about snake-handling is that it is not a common practice. I stand by that. The first commenter to try to contradict that quotes from a Wikipedia article with a figure of 40 Pentecostal churches that practice snake-handling. I think that proves my point. Forty small churches in the foothills of the Appalachians does not a common practice make. In Alabama, my home state, it's illegal to use poisonous snakes. I've seen some of these services near Sand Mountain, GA, and the congregation is very small. No surprise there. And yes, they quote from the Book of Mark before they start shuffling and dancing around holding snakes.
Delete@10:38-
DeleteIt is impressive you know what 2/3 of the world believes.
I would not claim to know; it is an absurd statement.
And you, too, are clever to see that my statements are made from a place of fear.
Yup.
Well done!
"It is impressive you know what 2/3 of the world believes.
DeleteI would not claim to know; it is an absurd statement."
@12:13: once again, education is your friend. You might try some, sometime. Maybe then you wouldn't be so afraid and defensive.
Also, too, please provide actual contemporaneous citations as to the existence of Jesus Christ; you'll find there are none. Gee, you'd suppose a man performing miracles would get a notice from the people living right next door to him who documented everything else, but nope. Even the gospels were written after his supposed death, by those who never claimed to meet him in real life.
Happy Zombie Day!
ReplyDeleteMaking fun of Ash Wednesday makes sense only if you've NEVER done anything you regret. It holds the distinction of the highest attendance in the Catholic Church, which is saying something. Many Protestant faiths hold similar services, because we've all fallen short of our own expectations.
ReplyDeleteEasy for some to ridicule the ashes, but it's about acknowledging everything you've done wrong, the ways in which you've failed yourself and others, then paying the price, FORGIVING yourself and everyone else, and working to move forward.
Around the time of Ash Wednesday, Gryphen had a post about our literal existence as stardust. So ironic that as I received the ashes on my forehead, I heard the words, "Dust you are, and to dust you shall return."
For years I was an agnostic, tried hard to be an atheist, but it didn't work for me, thank God.
>>but it's about acknowledging everything you've done wrong, the ways in which you've failed yourself and others, then paying the price, FORGIVING yourself and everyone else, and working to move forward.
DeleteAnd why can't you do that EVERYDAY, why is it only one day a year? It seems to me that I strive to do that each and every moment of my life, I don't put it off until some 'holy' day. Why wouldn't you endeavor to do that if you are a 'christian'? Why can't you do those things if you do NOT call yourself 'christian'? Just makes no sense to me.
Reminds me of what my father used to say on Christmas and Easter...'If we don't get to church on time, the 'twice a year Christians' will have taken all the seats'.
@11:30~ calm down. Yes, you are supposed to try and live your best every day, sure.
DeleteBut it is life, and some days are better than others.
Where is all this anti ~religious shit when it's Yom Kippur, or some other religious day?
HYPOCRISY!
Not that anyone should have to endure such nasty, uneducated drivel as we Christians get to enjoy here in the comments.
Keep showing how much better all you non ~ Christians are by insulting us!
Well. Done.
>>Not that anyone should have to endure such nasty, uneducated drivel as we Christians get to enjoy here in the comments.
DeleteOh you poor little put upon victim.
Uneducated? YOU are the one who follows a made up story, how is it that WE are uneducated?
NO one shoves Yom Kippur down the public throat weeks before it occurs. No Jew goes around telling people they are going to hell if they don't join up. Christians are told in the Bible to keep their faith to themselves. If you will make your religion a public spectacle, expect to be ridiculed and criticized.
Delete-The faith that you have, keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who has no reason to pass judgment on himself for what he approves.- Romans 14:22
EXACTLY!
DeleteOlivia?
DeleteYou are the one who didn't know ANITA EDUCASHON was a joke, so you aren't seen as the sharpest tack!
Also, I'm not about to start attacking another religion, but you show your ignorance (again? still?) by making such ridiculous blanket statements.
Ridiculed and criticized?
Once again, you prove that you guys don't"need" religion because you already conduct yourselves the "right" way?
Just wondering where "ridicule" falls under the"right thing" to do...
Also, well done on adopting SARAH PALINS grotesque catch phrase of: shoving down our throats.
DeleteYou are EXACTLY the viewer FOX is looking for!
Anon @11:30 p.m.
DeleteYou assume we don't do it every day? We are supposed to do it every day. The 40 days of Lent remind us of Jesus's 40 days in the desert. It's a time of especially deep soul-searching. That examination of the soul doesn't end at Easter.
Sounds as if some commenters are unfamiliar with how Catholics pray. Some Catholics (not just monastics but some lay members) pray the Liturgy of the Hours throughout the day, or a shortened version for morning and evening prayer. There are on-line resources and phone apps to help with these prayers, as the LOH can be hard to follow.
Some choose instead the Office of 12 Our Fathers, the Rosary, the Franciscan Crown, Divine Mercy, or chaplets of various kinds, all of which involve deep contemplation. I benefit from the Examen of St. Ignatius of Loyola. It's a meditative form of prayer in which one stills the mind, gives thanks for and reviews the day, reflects on one's thoughts and actions, asks forgiveness for the bad, and resolves to do better. I do this at the end of each day.
If non-Christians engage in similar spiritual exercises, more power to them. You seem to read things into my post that I didn't put there.
I was raised in the Catholic church and as soon as I was old enough, moved out and stopped practicing the faith!
DeleteThey all still practice the religion - go to confession - are forgiven their sins and do them all over again. They are the very worst examples of 'christian/Catholics' I have ever seen and I'm sure there are many more like them.
They make me sick in the manner in which they portray their faith and I know there are many more out there just like them!
"Also, well done on adopting SARAH PALINS grotesque catch phrase of: shoving down our throats."
DeleteYou appear to be overreacting on this point. Why does that bother you so much? Are you saying Sarah Palin has the copyright on that phrase?
"You are EXACTLY the viewer FOX is looking for!"
If you look at your inaccurate, overdrawn and nearly incomprehensible reply to my post above, I would say YOU are the typical Fox viewer.
But Gryphen ( @11:02) you weren't simply opening up a discussion for polite society. You broad brushed all Christians based on the radical behaviors of some, and you did so mockingly and on our holy weekend.
ReplyDeleteEveryone who knows me from the Palin discussion sites knows that I have been fighting the good fight to expose the dangerous extremism of the "Christian" right. I have opened the discussion more times than I care to remember, over the past 2 years. Sometimes humor is the necessary ( and sanity saving !) approach to take but it's up to us to use the tool wisely. In this case, I will bet anything that there are many of your Christian readers who were hurt by this.
I respect your work, your opinions and your heart. Happy Easter to you and your family .
If you were truly secure in your beliefs, you could not be 'hurt' by anything Gryphen or anyone else says. Your angst lies within you. Stop projecting it on Gryphen. Time for you to examine WHY you would feel hurt and how that very response is broadcasting your doubt in your own faith.
DeleteGryphen has allowed himself to believe that it is his incredible intellect and argumentative prowess that keeps his family from wanting to discuss issues with him.
DeleteI think it's becoming clearer that Gryphen isn't quite as open ~ minded and respectful of conflicting beliefs, that he believes he is...
I agree with anon@4:58. I'm wondering why Gryphen is muddying up this blog with atheist vs Christian issues. Why not start a second blog that focuses on that issue alone instead of deliberately offending so many of us who have been following this blog for four years?
DeleteI mean really. I come here for all things Palin and not for lessons in magical thinking.
>>deliberately offending so many of us who have been following this blog for four years?
DeleteWhy don't YOU start a blog instead of telling Gryphen what to do? It is just stunning to me the disregard and disrespect that posters like you show to Gryphen. It is HIS BLOG. Don't come here if you don't like what he has to say. No one has a gun to your head and is forcing you to frequent his blog. No one is holding you hostage to his point of view. It's HIS point of view, why would you find it insulting or offensive? Just because it isn't YOUR point of view.
Again, arrogance is running rampant with you so called 'believers'.
WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU to tell him how to conduct himself?
"WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU To tell him how to conduct himself?
Delete_______________
Must be Republican State Legislators!
This is just outright pure insanity! WTF???
ReplyDeleteYep. Been there. I'm actually from the same province but a few miles away. I'm a baptized catholic, went catholic lite and now not much. I've studied other religions as well upon getting exposed to many others in the US. I've come to the conclusion to disagree with the many practices of the catholic church. It's run like a corporate mafia. I accidentally turned into a one way street once and to this day I make sure that never ever happens again. Yet you can sin and get cleansed over and over. It was hypocritical, I say. Stopped going to church eons ago with the one mandate I take with me that has the same common message as all other religions. Love one another and treat each other right, like you would like to be treated. That's all there is to it.
ReplyDeletePrior to the Spanish arriving and colonizing the islands for more than 500 years, I don't think there were many main religions. I don't agree with the bizarre re-enactments, the rituals, the flagellations and what not. They get pretty fanatic and extreme down there. I think I've pissed off a few flagellation devotees by following them and asking oooh..does that hurt? Damn that had to hurt. I've got some salt and vinegar if your screams of agony isn't convincing the villagers.
I've often suggested to place the nail BELOW the hand at the wrist so the idiot will hang better and the nail won't tear through his hand to cause him to fall to the people below. Notice how they got the guy roped up as added support.
Q: Who betrayed Jesus Christ?
ReplyDeleteA: Judas Priest
Q: Who was Pontius Pilate?
A: One of Jesus' disciples
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/topics/easter/9192069/Judas-Priest-betrayed-Jesus-in-Bethlehem-poll-reveals-lack-of-Easter-knowledge.html
They don't even do it correctly either. The nails are supposed to go through the WRIST not the palm. Morons.
ReplyDeleteJesushchristonacrutch, barbarism lives.
ReplyDeleteMasochism never had any appeal for me. But then, I'm not wrapped up in that kind of imagination.
ReplyDeleteThe first commandment should be: Do no harm. No others are needed.
My uncle is in Hospice care. He'll probably be dead within a week. Last night he asked me to read the Bible to him. I'm not a Christian, but I did. I asked him if he wanted something read at his funeral. He said he wanted something from the Book of Job. I never liked the Book of Job. I think it cast God in an especially cruel light.
ReplyDeleteI could have told him it was a fairy tale, that it was stupid and that there is nothing beyond. But you know what? I never would. I'm not some Belief Nazi. I may not believe in that stuff. I may have strong negative opinions on the Bible and organized religion. But I can't see spending time ridiculing people for their beliefs. My uncle's thinking there's something else is going to make his dying easier, and if it does then I can't find fault.
I wish that non-believers could see how closely they resemble fundamentalists when they go on their screeds. I secretly suspect that for some of them, it is an attempt to come across more intellectual just as with fundamentalists the nastiness is intended to make them seem spiritually superior. But you're all arguing about something that can't be proven and you both look like fools.
You want to discuss how religion is negatively impacting society? That's a debate we can have. You want to taunt a person for their quiet, private faith? That just makes you look like an ass.
Get over yourselves. What should you care what someone believes? Not everyone of faith is hurting others. Stop acting like the Westboro Baptist crowd in reverse. It's unbecoming.
I agree with you, with just one caveat.
Delete"Live, and let live",I can believe in.
Having it foisted on me in the political arena, or using it to vilify me,or anyone else,because we DON"T believe in their personal Fairy Tale,is not acceptable to me.
I will not stand for that, and if mocked for my beliefs (or lack of) gives me license to mock back, if I so desire.
Just Sayin'!!!
I agree. But I'm not talking about the people foisting it on us in the political or social arena. There are many good, decent Christians - more than you think - who are as turned off by the Tea Party Christians as the rest of us.
DeleteI write for an interfaith forum that contains several level-headed Christians. They are very accepting of me, and I'm pagan.
If someone mocks you, it opens the door to mock back. But earlier in this comment section Nyah offered a very gentle and polite reminder that not all Christians are like the ones we find disturbing and the response to her was some total asshole attacking her beliefs? And to what end?
How exactly does it help, when we're all under attack by the rabid right-wing fundamentalist Christians, to attack and ridicule the ones who agree with us that everyone should live and let live?
Morgan
DeleteI don't think anyone was "attacking" Nyah's belief. They were "attacking" her lecture on GRYPHEN's blog.
I'm sure you don't allow people to "attack" you posting about pagans on YOUR blog.
Nyah, forgot who's "house" she was visiting and was reminded, yes the person responding to her was a little harsh, but if Nyah is secure in her "belief" she wouldn't care WHAT Gryphen post.
This is a subject that Gryphen post about quite frequently and if "true Christians" feel "attacked" by what he's saying, then they shouldn't read his post, because they will ALWAYS get offended.
God bless you ... although I'm not sure what that means. Any God I can worship appreciates love and kindness.
DeleteCrazies.
ReplyDeleteTHey did it wrong, too. The nails were in the wrist, not the hands.
Also, I just don't get that Easter is a lunar holiday. Shouldn't it be the same day every year? Doesn't anyone think it's stoopid to change the date every year? I mean, the day he supposedly died was an actual date. And sunday isn't the third day after he died, it's the second.
Hogwash. All of it.
I like Jordan Maxwell's take on the son (sun) rising on the third day. At the winter solstice time, the sun stays below the horizon a few days and on heThird
day it Rises Again above the horizon. A pagan observation that was copted by the Christians.
Someone please tell me how any form of rationality can be conflated with the belief of ANY religion.
ReplyDeletePlease,...tell me,..someone, anyone!!!!!
Love isn't rational.
DeleteWhen you think of the love you feel for your child,
It is easy to think that true love can make miracles happen.
It is imperative to separate the evils of man,
From the supreme love that is Jesus Christ.
Would YOU want to be blamed for lies people made up about YOU and what YOU believed, after. You were dead?
Pretty lame.
I agree with BuffaloGal to some extent Gryphen.
ReplyDeleteEven though you and I as atheists, might think most religions are a crutch, doesn't mean that many others don't take them seriously.
Having a valid and respectful, and even serious conversation about faith vs non faith is appropriate. Some jokes are appropriate on both sides of the debate.
Mocking such as "croutons and koolaid" is probably best left to atheist conventions or offline discussions,
One last comment about non-theists if I could:
Atheism is a religion like OFF is a TV channel
Surely you have considered that Atheism itself, is a form of BELIEF.
ReplyDeleteWhy do you even care what atheists believe, or don't believe?
DeleteI call myself a non-theist, because I just don't think about, or care about any religious beliefs or gods, or spiritual matters.
If you think about it rationally, that is the ABSENCE of belief. It means NO belief on gods, religions, books about religion, or spiritual practices.
Atheism is a religion like OFF is a TV channel
Atheism is no more a belief than not collecting stamps is a hobby.
DeleteAtheism can be a belief in the sense that to declare absolutely that a "higher power" does not exist requires a certainty that I think is small-minded. I don't believe nor do I disbelieve and I'm open to be surprised. However, I do think those folks who believe or behave "good" only to be "saved" are foolish cowards.
DeleteI do get the last two points though and find them pretty good. I understand that some do not care one way or t'other and that's fine too. I just find that strident Atheists (capital A) are sometimes arrogant and closed-minded and like to remind others that their spiritual inclinations are "stupid".
I have to agree. Sacrifice is a component of nearly all religions. To make a mockery of Christians on Holy Saturday is beneath you. Sorry. Your audience isn't a couple hundred facebook friends whom you know personally, in which case, have at it. Certainly you have the right to do what you want on your own blog but you could be a little more respectful of the wide cross-section of people who visit here, particularly on the most important day of their religious calendar. And certainly you can just tell everyone to bugger off, but we can also point out when you're being an ass.
ReplyDeleteI'm so sick of religion being rammed down our throats! When I heard that Prevo, in Anchorage, planned on putting up a 200+' white cross, I really wanted to throw up! The guy pushes politics from the pulpit and now wants to shove a christian cross for all to see in the city! Give me a friggin' break. Out of spite, I think the Jewish folks should put up a 200+' Star of David somewhere within the city!
ReplyDeletePrevo is a Republican and very much a participant in their party in Alaska. The real corker is that his church (and various properties they own to include teacher's properties that instruct at his school in Anchorage) do not have to pay real estate taxes to the Municipality of Anchorage. It is not right especially when he pushes his congregation to be anti gays, etc. and puts them out on the streets to declare so.
The USA has turned into a 'hateful' country. We no longer are nice when not agreeing with the other. And, I've learned to show my utter disgust to christians, even though I was raised one.
My two cents . . . Religion is a practice where human beings assign blame and things they don't have answers to on a mental and spiritually rooted "noun" so they can function with some level of assurance.
ReplyDelete