A group of about 150 Mormons quit their church in a mass resignation ceremony in Salt Lake City on Saturday in a rare display of defiance ending decades of disagreement for some over issues ranging from polygamy to gay marriage.
Participants from Utah, Arizona, Idaho and elsewhere gathered in a public park to sign a "Declaration of Independence from Mormonism."
"This feels awesome," said Alison Lucas, from West Jordan, Utah, who took part in the rally amid soaring temperatures. "I don't know if I would have had the courage except in a group."
The Utah-based Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is known for its culture of obedience, and the mass ceremony was a seldom-seen act of collective revolt.
After gathering in the park, participants hiked a half-mile up nearby Ensign Peak, scaled in 1847 by church President Brigham Young to survey the spot where his Latter-day Saints would build a city.
At the top, those gathered gave three loud shouts of "Freedom," cheered, clapped and hugged.
"It's been a hard journey and this is a symbolic end," said event organizer Zilpha Larsen, of Lehi, Utah. "I just hope that it boosts people up and helps them feel more comfortable in their decision."
Now I have NO idea if these followers of the Church of Latter Day Saints still consider themselves Christians, or if some have decided to walk away form religion altogether, but it certainly does my heart good to see ANYBODY refuse to follow their church doctrine blindly.
This certainly CANNOT be good news for Mitt Romney, to suddenly have large groups of adherents leaving his faith at the same time that HE, as it's most visible member, is in the middle of a campaign for the President of the United States.
Not that the two are related, but you know with Mittens as the current symbolic head of the church, they're KIND OF related.
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| "Seriously you couldn't have waited five more months?" |
It's interesting to read what these people have to say. But reading the comments is even more illuminating. Control F the term "chosen one" ... apparently some people in the Mormon church think that Romney is "the chosen one"...chosen for what??? Of course, these people reject that idea. But I think it's time for the media to look into this...
ReplyDeletehttp://mormonsforobama.org/2012/05/06/mormonsforobama-org-on-realclearpolitics-com/
The Chosen one for the "White Horse Prophecy", I'd imagine. Look it up on wiki or google.
DeleteYou may find this interesting!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.alternet.org/belief/155798/major_threat_to_religion_clergy_people_coming_out_as_atheists_
How dare they use rill American freedom loving acts of rebellion to liberate themselves from the Mormon rule of law. . .
ReplyDeleteI wish them luck.
"So 150 of us decided to quit being Mormons. So what? Out of how many thousands? And they will burn for it."
ReplyDeleteOf course, this is the way the Mormon leadership will spin it. But when one considers the extremely tight control their church has held over their parishioners, this is amazing!
The Mormon church has acted like a government within a government (FAR worse than the others have) for far too long. I don't really care if they are quitting religion or just their particular sect. They are LEAVING. The armor is cracking.
YAY!
"Can Romney Serve Two Masters?" Tricia Erikson
DeleteReading it now; fascinating.
Did the Mormons ever sign a peace treaty with the USA? I seem to recall they were at war with the USA and finally came to some sort of resolution. Perhaps they are another state that might secede after SCOTUS sold the people of America down the river - and it's OT but the media is having a field day this morning ripping the GOP mouthpieces to shreds at the national and local level. Even our resident GOP apologist Esme came down hard on the idiots claiming they were going to take down "obamacare". She put about six rounds into the local businessman spokesperson and left him bleeding out before she moved on to harder targets. And I might add - I love Al Franken. He spoke to the issues and really knew what he was talking about.
DeleteI've been saying for a long time: the LDS church is structured, patriarchal and authoritarian, and it interferes in its members lives to an appalling extent- they have people who visit regularly just to make sure that their members are hearing the "message" they're getting out; they have mandated at-home nights (you're going to have fun with your family OR ELSE) and they have church courts to investigate questions of orthodoxy. I'm not saying I wouldn't vote for a Mormon, but I would only vote for somebody who believed in a progressive agenda. The LDS church is so authoritarian, they pick who runs for office- from their own bishops to state legislators to national office- and they're not going to pick somebody who doesn't support their agenda. It doesn't matter what the candidate says publicly (look up "lying for the Lord" if you want to know why), a national candidate is going to support the LDS position. That means if you're voting Romney, you're voting for the LDS church to make decisions for you.
ReplyDeleteMy heart goes out to the Mormons who have quit the church publicly. They have been cut off from extended family members and they have truly been taught to think that they will be cast into outer darkness for this. It's terribly brave of them.
That's what God made the middle finger for.
DeleteIt absolutely is not true that they have been cut off from extended family. That might happen in an LDS fundamental sect, but not the main church. It isn't church policy to shun people who leave. Individual families might feel differerntly, but it isn't a church mandate. My Mormon grandmother married my Greek Orthodox father IN Salt Lake City. From then to this day we have enjoyed the company and love of both sides of the family. My grandmother was never rejected by her family. I know this to be true of the many Mormon families with whom I have had contact. It seems that there is always at least one child who will reject the faith. There are many reasons to reject the Mormon faith, but shunning a family member for leaving the faith isn't one of them.
DeleteThe problem is friend, which church, mormon or kristyun is the most dangerous? You can't deny that the catholics are very dangerous in their own way too. Why, millions of abused children can't all be wrong! Be like me and gryphen and support throwing out 'all' the evil sky fairy nonsense.
DeleteAlthough I have no regard for the Mormon faith, I have a good friend that was raised Mormon, fell away from her faith and I remember her being referred to as a "jack" Mormon. (Have no clue where that term came from?)
DeleteShe is from a large family and remains very close to them. The huge family ALL resides in cities throughout Utah and my friend resides in a completely different state. She's a darling gal -but drinks alcohol, has smoked pot for years and drinks coffee - which, of course, are NOT allowed in the Mormon religion.
Point I'm making is that she was NOT shunned by her family for leaving their faith.
I was excommunicated when I was 18, as my father turned me in to the ward leadership for various and sundry sins. I didn't show up to my "trial" because I didn't give a rat's patootee. It was a clear attempt to make me get back in line with the Mormo BS. Anyhow, one of the things that could be explosive if anyone were paying attention is that Mormons are essentially communists.
ReplyDeleteDeseret industries is the backbone of "church welfare". Yes, Mormons run their very own welfare state. They own farms, canneries, all kinds of things. Any Mormon can sign up for church welfare and be fed and clothed and the like if they need it.
Mormonism teaches that when Jesus returns it will be to Missouri and he will establish a commune. Now, on one hand it is way more true to what Jesus actually said and did than most Christian sects, but can you imagine the Christianist scum-creeps getting ahold of this?
I was excommunicated when I was 18, as my father turned me in to the ward leadership for various and sundry sins. I didn't show up to my "trial" because I didn't give a rat's patootee.
Delete~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~``
Jeebus Kryst!! Those sentences are enough to scare the shit out of me!
A big difference with Mormon "welfare" is that people who need it are expected to do work in those warehouses. The Mormons have a strong belief that you should work for what you get.
DeleteI remember reading, I don't remember where, that the original Mormon communities where the purest expression of Marx's communist vision to be found -- The United Order of Enoch.
DeleteThere's little doubt that mormons are scumbags and fakers but the redbaiting? That's so american! there's one in every closet isn't there! Hey, maybe Romney is a commie! Yeah, he's got to be one cause he's a mormon. Support Obama to be safe. The Russians are coming!
DeleteRedbaiting? I'm referring to their actual professed views. Romney's actual religious views should be taken into account. The fact that Obama merely attended a church headed by reverend Wright was touted as a big issue by the likes of scum queen. Romney is a very highly placed leader in the Mormon church and wants to be president. He is a leader in that organization. Yes. the doctrine they embrace matters. It matters greatly.
DeleteLike I said, the idea of communal living is Christian. The scum religionists we now have who profess to be Christian are not. Placing things in front of them that force them to wallow around in their hypocrisy is good clean fun. No, dear, the Russians are not coming. The Mormons are.
The MORmON Church fired all it's janitors. (Mitt had an involuntary emission in his majic mormon underwear).
DeleteAll the church members have to clean for free (except probably important people like Mitt and his relatives).
Actually, the Mormons scared me so badly I let my parents take my kids to church every Sunday. Then I explained to them my views on it. They are now inoculated against nonsense of all kinds. They really won't believe anything unless you can prove it. I cult-proofed them.
DeletePlus Mormon kids have some distinct advantages. The Mormons are very, very good at raising hard-working, clean cut kids. Statistically their outcomes are stellar compared to the hick religos like the Alaska scum clan. They have a strong tendency to finish school without getting knocked up, for instance. Let's see a trash-Christian do that.
Anyway, I think that posting lots of info to right wing sites is a great idea. They need to take a good hard look at that lying, thieving Mormon official.
The Mormons did try to set up what appears to be a communist-type living arrangement (The United Order) but they developed their doctrine independently from the Communist Manifesto. I don't think Joseph Smith or Brigham Young were ever influenced by Karl Marx (I don't think the timing is right). We attribute the communist-looking description to it now because 150 years later we have that historical perspective and it looks like much the same thing to us. The United Order was actually even more repressive than Karl Marx's original philosophy or the old Soviet Union's expression of it, and it failed rather quickly.
DeleteBut the redbaiting is true. In the Cold War era, Mormons were extremely fearful of communism and saw it lurking behind every door. In order to participate in their temple rituals (where they get the underwear) one has to be deemed worthy enough to receive a temple "Recommend". Many personal questions including your sexual activity and politics are asked, and one of them was whether or not you were a communist. No temple Recommend for you.
My understanding is that that particular question is no longer asked - I think they had to let it go along with making death pacts with God, letting black people into the priesthood and changing their scriptures promising Native Americans that if they became Mormons they would become "pure and delightsome" instead of "white and delightsome".
I understand they still ask all the sexual questions, though I could be wrong as I left the church many years ago and don't follow their goings on as much as I used to.
I find Romney to be a creepy character! His constant lies and none statements as to what he'd do IF elected POTUS make me want to keep him as far away from the White House as possible.
ReplyDeleteOBAMA/BIDEN 2012 in a landslide!!!
Romney is an obvious psychopath.
DeleteI totally agree. He's creepy and lacks emotion. Both signs of a sociopath.
DeleteSome time ago, 60 Minutes interviewed a former member of the Mormon Church. It's like another organization that starts with M and is even more powerful. You just don't quit. In her case, she was shunned. No one was allowed to talk to her. Forgiveness does not seem to be in their system of religious belief.
ReplyDeleteIsolation.
DeleteLovely.
They are shunned because religious leaders know if other members talk to them they may leave the church as well.
DeleteThat may be what her family decided to do, but it isn't a dictated by the church. See my comment down thread. Like any man-made religious institution, there are good things and bad things. I hate to see any religion (except maybe Scientiology) beat up over misconceptions. They should be applauded for the good things they do like help a neighbor (Mormon or not) re-build after a catastrophe, and criticized for the bad. One of the worst things is the patriarchal aspect. One of the best things is their profound patriotism and emphasis on family activities. I know many wonderful, kind, loving Mormons, and I know some horrible ones, just like any large group of people. Again, almost every Mormon family that I know has a well-loved kid who rejects the faith. They are not shunned.
DeleteMennoniyes? MI-5? Mars?
DeleteMafia
DeleteMy guess is Masons. Many of the Mormon temple rituals are based on Masonic rituals.
DeleteMy understanding is that Joseph Smith was a Mason.
DeleteI think people are confusing fundamentalist sects of the Church of Latter Day Saints and the dogma of other religious orders (The Amish are big on shunning). Fundamental sects happen in all religions, and don't represent the Church at all. There's enough to question the dogma of Mormonism (any organized religion) without muddying the waters with the fundies.
DeleteThe fundamentalist sects of Mormonism actually practice shunning to an extreme degree. The ones you hear in the news - FLDS in TX and Colorado City UT,- these are the sects that rabidly refuse to allow family members to see each other after the prophet has decided to change their family structure.
DeleteMen who somehow get on the bad side of the prophet risk being turned out and losing their entire families. Men have been forced out of the compound and had entire families taken away from them - all his wives and children assigned to another man - never to see them again. The children are told to that this new man is now their father. It is all very sick and traumatizing.
In order to keep the FLDS structure operating, it is necessary to keep the population at a certain ratio of males to females. To sustain that ratio it is necessary to cull the male population, and every year some boys are forced out of the compound and never allowed contact with their families again. They are known as Lost Boys as they have been turned out from the only world they know and into a world which is totally unkown to them and for which they are totally unprepared. Boys who don't know the geography of the world or the president of the United States or that man has been to the moon.
The mainstream Mormon church goes to great lengths to distance themselves from these fundamentalists cults and their practices, but shunning is very much practiced to different degrees even in the mainstream Mormon church. Just ask someone who has been excommunicated or disfellowshipped against their desire and still wants to be a part of the church and still attempts to attend meetings - a practices encouraged by the clergy. And of course, they are also encouraged to continue to pay tithing. However, their participation is limited by the clergy and everyone knows why. They are allowed to be there but their presence is not embraced. Everyone know the score. Most people who have reached the point of excommunication no longer care by that time, but for those who still love their church and believe their doctrine, this is very hard to endure.
http://www.mormonnomore.com/
ReplyDeleteHow to resign:
ReplyDeletehttp://youtu.be/Gskxdl2IqqU
I've posted this before -- I'm gonna post it again and post it every time Romney's Mormonism comes up until the media starts to pay attention to it.
ReplyDeleteRead this article. Very telling:
http://jezebel.com/5851050/the-curious-case-of-mitt-romney-an-abortion-and-eliza-dushkus-mom
Basically, you get three pretty telling facts:
1. Bishop Mitt Romney tried to force a woman to NOT have an abortion even though she didn't want one and even though it could have killed this mother. This supports the theory that Mormon elders overly interfere in the lives of their members.
2. Mitt Romney is wiling to lie about how he feels about things in order to score votes....(although, my take on him telling Ms. Dushku that he has pro-choice leanings is that he was lying...he seems to be pretty deft at telling people what they want to hear.)
3. Mitt Romney gets his marching orders from the LDS.
I'm not that big of a fan of Harry Reid's, who is also a Mormon, but, to me, there seems to be a BIG, BIG difference between Mormon politicians like Harry Reid and Mitt Romney, who is Mormon royalty as he is a direct descendent from one of the first apostles of Joseph Smith. He is thoroughly entwined in the the LDS church hierarchy. Look it up on Wikipedia! Hell, according to Salon, he was known as "the One and the Mighty" when he was at Brigham Young!!! I have no doubt that Harry Reid can be a Mormon and still be able to govern independent of the Church. And I have NO DOUBT that Romney CANNOT.
So, good old Mitt knew that this woman should better die and leave her children motherless than get the medical care her doctor AND her church elders demanded she have to save her life. Shows you the contempt many Mormon men have for women--they're just mindless breeding/housecleaning/sex machines. Use 'em up, get another one.
DeleteThanks, 7:58
DeleteI totally forgot reading that story. It needs to go viral and Mitt needs to address it as Candidate Obama needed to address race and religion.
kind of related? of course it's related. The main goal of the Mormons has been to put a Mormon in power, preferably the Presidency. Mitt has been groomed for this his entire life. Every penny he donates to charity is to his own church and his position there as a Bishop.
ReplyDeleteSame as evangelicals and probably many other religions. Nothing odd about this.
DeleteIt's not quite the same as evangelicals or other religions. Unlike other religions who might see the founding fathers as deists who might incorporate some faith related language into this new Constitution, the Mormons see it as directly inspired by the hand of God, whether the founding fathers like it or not.
DeleteMitt Romney has been all but anointed by the First Presidency as the one referred to in the White Horse Prophecy - the One who shall save the Constitution when it is hanging by a thread during the last days and it shall be saved by a Mormon. According to Mormon doctrine, we are now living in the last days. But they have been saying that since the mid-1800s and prophecy was supposed to have been fulfilled long ago. (Many of their prophecies have passed their expiration date - men on the moon for example.) But now the great white Mitt has appeared and now they are sure the end of the world is nigh, and unlike evangelicals, Mormons don't believe in Rapture.
Mitt is not just a high profile Mormon, he is fulfillment of prophecy. But the Mormons don't like to acknowledge the White Horse doctrine and will not hesitate to tell you that it is not actual doctrine, but they say the same thing about polygamy in the afterlife (yes) and that blacks really are inferior (yes) and lots of other interesting things. It's one of those things that they don't like to talk about but accept as common knowledge.
Mormons constantly talk about how persecuted they were and are. It's non-stop. You'd think they were being fed to the lions or something. I mean it's odd. They really believe it though. They talk about the social stigma of being a non-drinker, they seem to think that sobriety puts them at a great disadvantage in the workplace. Seriously? Am I missing something? (I'm an ex-mormon, I spent the first 18 years of my life listening to this shit.)
ReplyDeleteThey always talk about how they're "set apart", how they live in a different world from the rest of society, and how persecuted they are. All this breeds a serious out-group mentality. They're the underdog, constantly victimized by societal prejudice. (Sounds like any episode of Bill O'Reilly, doesn't it?) They look up to any famous Mormon, identify with him, see his struggle as their struggle. To these people Mitt isn't a politician, he's a proxy for their religion.
I wonder, if one of them were to become president, would this be sort of like FOX news becoming the main stream media? I mean how will they deal with it, within their culture? I'm telling you, it will really mess up their program.
While I could bash Mormonism all day long, I gotta say it's no goofier than any other brand of Christianity.
Being persecuted makes them feel chosen by God like the Jews. They promote their perceived persecution to keep their wagons circled and their followers devout.
DeleteMountain Meadow Massacre. They're certainly good at assassinating those who get in their way.
DeleteNo one holds a copywrite on "persecution"
DeleteI'm atheist and feel "persecuted" at times.
Mormonism and Scientology are very much alike. They want to control every aspect of a person's life, and woe to the miscreant who stands up to them or who finally wakes up and leaves them.
ReplyDeleteFor those who don't already know it, Romney is very high up in the Mormon Church, and Tom Cruise is second or third in the hierarchy of Scientology.
A vote for Romney is going to place the long-term future of this country in peril because I believe there is a hidden Mormon agenda to infiltrate church dogma into government law, i.e. a melding of church and state.
As for Tom Cruise, like him if you will, but remember that every time you pay to see one of his movies, a lot of the money he receives as a result is going into the coffers of Scientology. You are, in effect, subsidizing them.
There are a number of other popular Hollywood celebrities who are also Scientologists, but none are as influential in the cult as Cruise is.
I personally will not pay to see any movie a Scientology member appears in if I know about it. I may watch it on TV if it appears there, but I refuse to support their cause.
Very good points, Bal, and I have thought the same exact thing. There is a new(??) movie called , i think, A Mormon President, in which this theory is examined, starting with Joseph Smigh, who upon ending HIS unsuccessful bid for the presidency apparently said something like "when the constitution of this country is in tatters, a Mormon WILL be president." As controlling in ALL aspects of their members' lives as this church is, there is NO WAY, they aren't HEAVILY invested in Romney's presidency. First, to lend them their LONG coveted credibility and second, to further the reach of the church. In DC they are HUGELY represented ad are called by some the Mormon Mafia. They are VERY VERY disciplined and clean cut making them perfect FBI/CIA,bureaucratic types.
DeleteThat's exactly what that dip#@*@ would say! It's all about ME ME ME ME ME!!! "I am OWED, do you hear me OWED the Presidency as payment for my loyalty and willingness to throw out anything about me that once was decent and fair." I swear, he gets nastier every day... and less believable. This is an act, a means to an end for someone who feels he is ENTITLED to be POTUS. Hey, Willard, what exactly are your qualifications? Being governor of MA only counts if you tell the TRUTH about your accomplishments. Fixer of the Salt Lake City Olympics? Nah. Head of Bain? Hell no!
ReplyDeleteOh come on Gryphen - it was two guys and their 148 wives.
ReplyDeleteBwaahaahaahaa! That was good!
Deleteooooohhhhh-- *SNAP!*
DeleteWhew! I was worried "The Osmonds" and "Runs With Scissors" were somehow involved. Thanks for clearing that up!
DeleteRemember Hannity, Palin, et al on Fox sarcastically referring to Barack Obama as the "messiah"? Isn't it ironic that it is actually Sarah Palin and Mitt Romney who are thought of as "the chosen one" by their religious followers?
ReplyDeleteI support and respect President Obama, but I certainly never thought he was "chosen" by God and I've never heard anyone else who supports him refer to him in that religious zealot way. We just think he's an exceptional person and more than qualified for the job of President of the United States.
I just don't get how Sarah can have any religious followers? She does not attend any church or anything?
DeleteAnd, Sarah does not act like a christian. She lies - is evil and spews her horrible racists words toward President Obama. Plus, she was a racist while the 'quitter' gov of Alaska - against the native people of the state! (Even though her husband has some native blood!)
DeleteIt is obvious she has not raised her children in the christian spirit.
Sarah is a fraud!
The "messiah" schtick is pure projection on their part. Remember the worship of McCain, "the POW"? Most people I know--Republican AND Democrat--voted for Obama because he was the Democratic candidate and the Republican candidate and his VP pick were just too nuckin' futs to even consider. Know what? Obama's not perfect, but he got a heck of a lot of good things accomplished despite constant obstruction from the Congressional TeaTards who announced the day of inauguration that their goal was going to be to oppose anything he said.
DeleteSarah *says* she is a Christian, FUX Noise backs her up, and the limp-minded TeaKlanners flock around her because they can't do their own thinking.
DeleteThere is a lot of information down the right column of this blog as to Palin's religious connections. Look up Dominionist. She has a following because she was groomed for this as well.
DeleteSarah Palin is no more a christian than I am! She and her family do not attend church in Wasilla. Bristol said the family is too busy!
DeleteSarah and Todd (the pimp/Shailey Tripp) do not live as christians! The lie, cheat, are frauds, use people (Shailey) and steal. Both have had affairs outside of their marriage, they are not now living a real marriage together, are terrible parents, have raised horrible kids, are poorly educated and have children that have not finished high school much less go to college. It has also never been proven that Sarah Palin has a college degree - after supposedly having attended four or five different colleges (no one remembers her at any of them - to include teachers!). And, it is well proven that Sarah Palin didn't birth that last child....he is NOT her kid - watch how she has always handled him - not in a loving way at all.
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
I read an ex-Mormon forum awhile back to get an insider perspective . Google it . Very Interesting stuff !
ReplyDeleteCan I wait? I just did my nails and don't want to mess them up.
DeleteI had hoped that more Catholics would have left in protest over the child sex abuse scandal and the authoritarian overbearing pope and bishops.
ReplyDeleteI'm hoping the nuns are the ones that will ignite the call to reform in the church.
there is no recourse as a catholic to push for change in the moribund, archaic catholic church.
By the RCC's own record they are losing members by the rate of 800,000 a yr in America. These losses consist of those dying off, the young members not staying, and those while still believing in the massage, but no longer in the institution. Also the catholic church has turned, in some areas, to evangelicalism, which according to Catholic doctrine is AGAINST the meaning of the church( strange huh? anything to quit bleeding members I guess).
DeleteSo I think you are mistaken that catholics haven't left the church, they are just leaving quietly.
Why has the media overlooked the FACT that Mitt is a bishop in the Mormon church?
Delete@9:27
Delete"massage"? Freudian slip? That was funny!
LOL with WakeUpAmerica - good one!
Delete@9:27
DeleteI'm no longer Catholic, but my 80 yo mother is a devout Catholic. The sex abuse cases in Philadelphia were first framed as "Testing their faith", Archbishop died the night after being found competent to stand trial (natural causes, of course), new round of allegations new archbishop, now her church is "floating" the idea of "titheing".
And sex abuse is now framed as "sin of man, not of God" (so it's "forgivable" through confession?). You're right, they closed about half the parishes, citing declining enrollment. I think Mom will blow a fuse if they go full "evangelical".
Everyone one should take the time to google "lying for Jesus". It means a Mormon can lie about anything to get into community and political positions to further their cults wants. It should scare the heck out of any sane person.
ReplyDeleteEvery male Mormon I have known throughout my life (I'm nearing 70!) has been a liar. I've worked w/them and dated one (and learned my lesson big time!).
ReplyDeleteFound them to lie in the business places where we worked and to be downright lazy. One was actually fired!
As to the dating episode - turned out he was married but had presented himself to me as single!
When anyone tells me they are Mormon, I immediately go into the 'alert' mode! Feel very sorry for the women married to them that is for sure!
>>Every male Mormon I have known throughout my life (I'm nearing 70!) has been a liar.>>
DeleteSame here. I'm a woman in a field that attracts a lot of ex-military, and Mormons join the military to proselytize in foreign countries and have Uncle Sam pay for it. As a woman, whenever I have a Mormon male co-worker (never worked with a woman Mormon--they're mostly home chained to the stove or in some menial part-time job), I've had to be constantly on the lookout for the sneaking around and whispering in management's ear, to try to discredit me. Many Mormon men hold women in a lot of disdain.
It is not disdain, it is FEAR. Flat out scared to death of gentile females. In my neighborhood in SE IN none of the mormon men will talk to me without their wives present. I have talked to all the gentile females in my hood and they say the same thing. I mentioned it to one of the mormon wives and she said they are pretty petrified of their own wives too. She told me that during their sex separated church events, the men have a male child go talk to their wives and daughters. The wives all laugh at them for it.
DeleteI'm not really one for following movie stars, etc. but I think it is really interesting that Katie Holmes is deciding to divorce Tom Cruise. Some reporters are theorizing that this is because their daughter Suri is of the age to begin participating in the Scientology ritual of "sec checks" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Scientology_Security_Checks. It is reported that she suddenly filed for divorce while Cruise is in Iceland shooting a movie and she has requested sole custody. I say run Katie run.
ReplyDeleteYep, take your heels off and your kid's, and run for the hills!
DeleteHey, Beefy, how cool is that? Tom is available, you're available, time for an adventure in hollywood again, just sayin!!!!
I've not really put this together before; Palin's cold shoulder to Romney has little to do with politics. They are both about securing power for their individual religions and she's not Mormon. It's a direct and relentless battle for power, isn't it. I'm going to have to do a better job of keeping all these "chosen one"s straight in my head.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.amazon.com/Under-Banner-Heaven-Story-Violent/dp/1400032806/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1341165970&sr=1-1&keywords=under+the+banner+of+heaven
ReplyDelete"Under the Banner of Heaven: A Story of Violent Faith" by Jon Krakauer. This book is great if you want a detailed and interesting history of the Mormons. He is an excellent writer.
Second that.
DeleteTwo more:
DeleteNo Man Knows My History by Fawn Brody
http://www.amazon.com/No-Man-Knows-My-History/dp/0679730540/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1341170013&sr=1-1&keywords=no+man+knows+my+history
One Nation Under Gods by Richard Abanes
http://www.amazon.com/One-Nation-Under-Gods-History/dp/1568582196
The last one will scare the crap out of you because it lays out exactly what is unfolding before our eyes. Abanes called it years ago.
Thanks, Anne. I just finished Under the Banner of Heaven, and it's beyond eye-opening about this CULT. (The Fawn Brodie book mentioned by Anon 11:14 is amazing too).
DeleteBefore anyone jumps on me for calling 'more-men-ism' a CULT, I've got the cred to do it. When I was five years old, my mother married a Mormon, 20 years her senior, and we moved from England (my new uncle was President of the British Mission for all of England) to Utah to live near his family. My new step-father's grandfather, John Pack, is on the obscenely huge statue in Salt Lake City, called "This is the Place Monument." He was one of the first scouts to see the "place" with racist polygamist, Brigham Young. John Pack had six wives and knew Mitt Romney's great grandfather, Parley P. Pratt. I remember once asking my new uncle (who was a Utah State Senator) "If Adam and Eve were the first people on Earth, where did the cave men come from?" (I was a small child and loved The Flintstones!) I'll always remember his answer -- "Sometimes the Devil does things to confuse us and test our faith." Right. Didn't even ring true to me then ...
People need to know what they're getting if they vote for Mitt. Since I was a young child I'd been told that "One day a Mormon will become President," then it's just short steps to Mormons ruling the world for when Jesus returns. BTW, Jesus (in their world) is Mormon.
When I was 12 years old, I was baptized for dead people in the Los Angeles Temple. I now view this as child abuse. I left Mormonism at age 15, even though my family shunned me for it. My older sister was married in the "Temple" (of Doom) and had four children. I was finally able to get her and her family out of the CULT and they're happily living as good, non-religious, but spiritual people.
When you see Mitt spouting his MANY lies, remember that he's wearing "magic underwear" under those khakis. Mormons believe that ONLY Mormons will get into the highest kingdom of heaven (God is a Mormon, too), so that means that Gandhi, MLK, Mother Theresa, Princess Diana and the Dalai Lama will NOT get in. And Mitt believes that he'll one day have his own planet to rule over, because that's the Mormon Taliban version of "72 Virgins." Oh, and they'll get those, too.
Remember, remember, the sixth of November! Democratic LANDSLIDE!!! American Democracy depends on it.
No Man Knows My History is the most important book ever written on Mormonism. It's hard to find because the Mormons literally steal it from libraries and burn it.
DeleteOr even A Study in Scarlet, by A. Conan Doyle. Yes, the first of the Sherlock Holmes stories, set in Utah among the Mormon cult and their evil "Holy Four". Not often revisited bc it's not considered politically correct ... but a scary portrayal of the Mormon mindset.
DeleteKimosabe- Thanks for mentioning the Sherlock Holmes connection - I had no idea! I found it online and am reading it now.
DeleteHave you seen the new Sherlock Holmes on PBS? It's very 21st century - computers and smart phones instead of a magnifying glass, nicotine patches instead of heroin and pink is the new scarlett. The characters and their histories are very true to the original - Sherlock still plays the violin and Watson writes up his adventures. There is still lots of running around through the streets of London and I like the new, updated Mrs. Hudson.
It's rather remarkable yet sad that in the original series Watson is a surgeon returning wounded from the Afghan War and more than 100 years later they didn't have to adapt the storyline at all - again he is still a surgeon returning wounded from the Afghan War. What does that say about mankind?
Anyway, I have to put in a plug for PBS. It's one of America's greatest resources and like so many others is on the Republican's hitlist for removal. Mitt Romney lists that one right alongside Planned Parenthood.
First the rebellious nuns, then TomKat, and now this; it’s time for moderate Muslims to make some noise.
ReplyDeleteMormons are NOT Christians.
ReplyDeleteActually they are.
DeleteMormons consider themselves Christian. "Look!" they say, "we even have Jesus Christ right in the name of our church!" But it is not quite the same thing. The Mormon Jesus has different characteristics and plays an entirely different role.
DeleteIslam accepts Jesus, too, but it is not a Christian religion either.
I really dislike Mormons (having been one for about 20 years, born and raised), but I will say that they ARE Christians by definition. They believe in Christ, therefore they are Christian. I actually had a friend who told me Mormons weren't Christian, Catholics weren't Christian-- even said that the Crusaders weren't "real" Christians.
DeleteChristianity in general has so many branches, but the main thing linking them together IS their belief in Christ. Doesn't matter if he has different characteristics, if he's black/white, etc etc.
How is it that religious beliefs can't ever be questioned? We can still have Freedom of Religion without restricting our right to know what someone believes. Especially - and perhaps only - when that person wants to assume high public office.
ReplyDeleteIf someone insists that they hear voices instructing them to carry out various tasks and missions, they're subject to being taken into custody for psychiatric evaluation. But if they further insist that the voice they hear belongs to the Creator of the Universe, then they're waved on through with a smile and the "sign of the cross" (or whatever gesture of respect coincides with that claimed religious affiliation).
When Barack Obama says that the teachings of Christ inform his worldview and represent the foundation of his ethical and moral standards, I have no problem at all with that. But if like some recent wackadoodle who held the office, he claimed that Jeebus spoke to him directly and signed off on sending combat troops into action, I have a HUGE problem with that. Shrub shouldnt have been re-elected in 2004, he should have been institutionalized.
If you read the Mormon origin narrative, there's no way to avoid the conclusion that these fanciful tall tales masquerading as religious revelation were concocted for the pursuit of monetary gain, community power and young chicks. Lots of young chicks.
(It's like the Playboy cartoon of decades ago where a lumpy middle aged couple awakes in bed one morning and the husband turns to the wife and says "Martha, God spoke to me last night and said, 'get yourself a young broad'")
The only downside to unmasking the folly of the Mormon faith by examining the obviously manufactured lore is that no other religion can survive the same examination without resulting in nearly the same level of suspicion and doubt.
Don't we have a right to know what Mittens believes? Freedom of Religion shouldnt mean a free ride to believe any cockamamie fantasy some fevered imagination has cobbled together into 'doctrine' and still expect to lead the entire nation. (Good luck getting him to disclose the any of this...)
Beldar, who ARE you?
DeleteA couple years ago, the Washington Post posed world renown violinist Joshua Bell as a busker in a Metro station. People stopped to listen a few moments, dropped a couple bucks in his open violin case, and moved on. Only the elderly proprietor of a newsstand saw that Bell was more than a mere busker.
Some of us have noticed too, Beldar. Please keep playing.
I agree, Kimosabe! Keep going, Beldar!
DeleteGiving your thoughts directly or through satire, you are succinct in your evaluation and a joy to read.
fromthediagonal
150 Mormons leaving is like spitting into the ocean. Also, it was one group not groups. It will be interesting to see if it is a trend.
ReplyDelete150 Mormons leaving the Church may not sound like much to you as a non-mormon, but trust me on this, it is a huge thing for Mormons. Most other Christian religions don't have too much of a problem if someone forsakes the faith into which they were born - perhaps their parents might be disappointed, but if an Episcopalian or Lutheran there really isn;t too much gnashing of teeth involved. But for a Mormon - the repercussions are more akin to trying to break away from a cult. They don't let you go easily.
DeleteOutsiders look at gay mormons and abused wives and wonder why they don't just leave and find another religion that treats them better. It's because unlike other denominations, Mormons are taught that they are the ONLY, TRUE religion. It is not just a belief system, a faith or even their identity, it is their definition of reality. Women who leave the church have thrown away their salvation for ETERNITY and will never see their children again - it's a pretty compelling reason for them to stay. As for gays, not only is their soul condemned, but it compromises their parents eternal family in the afterlife as well. Gay mormons tend to commit suicide more often not because of lack of acceptance by society or even by their families, but by their church doctrine. They can conform to all the standards and live all the rules, but in their hearts they know they are still gay and they are condemned. That is not a belief, that is their reality.
Breaking away from the Mormon stranglehold is an absolutely agonizing internal process - that's why they have support groups for what one would think is such a simple thing. Each one's experience with it is a little different, but the sense of freedom that comes with it when it finally happens is almost indescribable.
There are many, many Mormons who are not active and don't particularly want to be in the church, but they are still counted by the church. You have to understand how the Mormon church functions. Records are all kept in SLC and a person has to formally petition the church to be taken off the membership roles. Most people don't ever get to that point. They just stop going. That's why an actual public event like this is interesting.
DeleteI love it when Willard, Palin or any of the other Repubs are caught w/their pants down!!! They hate being out of control of the media. The next few months are going to be a kick in the ass to watch!!!
ReplyDeleteOBAMA/BIDEN 2012
I had a roommate who was from a Mormon family. She is a wonderful person and a perfect roommate, but not Mormon. When her family insisted on interviewing me with her for the room I was to rent I thought it was odd. When women kept showing up with muffins and boys wearing the same suits kept knocking on the door continuously bugging the crap out of me I started to get snitty as you can imagine. I would ask them why since their surveillance would have by now detected what hours and days she worked they were knocking on the door when she was not at home daily. Remember the story of Joyce McKinney which revealed the extent the Mormon church will go to keep those young men in suits in line. One of the doctors in Nome who medically bullied me was Mormon, he would make patients wait in the ER for him for hours on the week end if he was on call. Many of them just left before being seen. They put even little details about their religion before everything, even the lives of others.
ReplyDeleteTo answer your question about the faith, or lack thereof, of those who leave Mormonism; its a mixed bag as you might expect. Check out exmormon.org. It will tell you everything you could possibly want to know about the Mormon church, and it has hundreds of personal stories. It also has ongoing bulletin boards with some pretty interesting discussions.
ReplyDeleteGood for them! Mormonism is NOT Christian - they are a cult. They have very strange beliefs.
ReplyDeleteI hope they got a confirmation letter from the Church that they have been taken off the roster. I wrote them years ago to take my name off-- just because you ask doesn't mean they will. They prefer to excommunicate you, I hear. All those millions who the Mormon Church claims to have in their flock actually includes inactive members, people who have asked to leave the church, and even some people who are NO LONGER ALIVE.
ReplyDeleteexmormon.org IS good, but mormoncurtain.com is what really helped me realize just how BS my entire upbringing was. Realizing you've been completely brainwashed is not a good feeling.
Thanks for the link, I'll check it out. I'm fascinated by courageous people like you and Martha Beck who can sift through what was done to them in the name of God and come out so strong.
DeleteI love this idea, and their symbolic march to the place where Young surveyed his kingdom must have given them a major head rush. I know 150 people sounds like a lot, but it's a start! Whether they choose to remain Christians or embrace Atheism doesn't matter to me. Whatever path they choose, I applaud them for their courage and hope it becomes a trend.
ReplyDeleteRomney's in an awkward position (easy, I know) and he needs desperately to address his "religion" issue in a believable speech, much like then Candidate Obama did his speech on Race.
I'm sure many of the undecided folks are Christian and can't bring themselves to vote for a Mormon without being convinced they truly are Christian.
Good Luck with that, Mittens.
PS. Love your choice of photos on your posts.
Any person that would knowingly adhere any sort of religious belief upon their children is very, very wrong. Spirituality is a personal quest that should be based upon one's knowledge of the natural world and our place in it. It makes me sick that parents choose to foist any sort of religion or spiritual choice upon their offspring during the formative years. When I was young and asked about religion I was told that it was something that other people engaged in and if I wanted to learn about it then there were books available that would explain what it meant and why people engaged in it. I had asked my father about "heaven" because children at my school sometimes spoke of it and he gave me a book that explained it and I pretty much laughed my ass off at age 8 regarding heaven and how anyone could possibly believe that such a place existed. My point is, give your children the tools to make their own decisions and don't brainwash them into a cultish way of thinking. If your kids need god, then they will find god, in their own way and by their own methods.
ReplyDeleteWow! Is that 150 metric or standard? That's a lot!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteMore than 150 blacks shot each other last weekend. That's a story. A few dozen Mormons is not.
I have a group of followers on Twitter called "Mormon's For Obama"!
ReplyDeleteHaha,it's really funny about all of this none sense talks. First it's all about Mitt Romney's Mormon Underwear ,now he is 'The Chosen One' on a "white horse" .. Come on people,wake up and smell the foulness in the air.It is quite frustrating to see them led astray.
ReplyDeleteWhat a bunch of deluded, uninformed folks post here. . .
ReplyDeleteHope we hear more about their reasons and their knowledge of inside "comments" from some major news magazines?????
ReplyDelete