This is one of the BEST explanations for why this idea is ridiculous, and why Republicans should be called out over it, that I have ever heard.
Save this and the next time you hear some Right Wing zombie spouting this nonsense strap them to a chair and make them watch it. More than once if necessary.
Good post.
ReplyDeleteI throw out a quick sound bite they can get their little brains around.
“The rich will employ one more pool boy and one more chauffer.”
That leaves them flatfooted and mumbling.
Tax the rich and invest in what? More government jobs? More government handouts? Any job that is created by government from taxes does not generate/create wealth. It is simply a redistribution of spending power and does does not generate economic growth. Just like the laws of physics, the laws of economics never change...no matter how much Matt Damon, or Nick Hannauer wish it were otherwise.
ReplyDeleteEvery job created "by the government" means that another person has income to spend and ordinary people spend their money: on housing, on products needed for their housing, on food, on education, and so on. That's more demand in the private sector which should, in a normal society, create more jobs. There is nothing wrong with redistributing spending power and it does create economic growth. Extreme austerity programs do not work as is evidenced by the UK's situation right now.
DeleteYou have no idea what you're talking about. Try again.
DeleteHello - do you use the roads in your town - sewerage, bridges. Have you ever needed assistance from LE, ambulance, fire brigade. Are you pleased that there is a legal system in your country. Are you happy that your medical providers are adequately trained, comply with government standards - drug testing gets done - etc etc. Do you realise that LACK OF oversight of the financial brigade - those sterling 1%ers caused the latest world economic collapse?
DeleteWhen your brain returns to where it should be - come back and chat again
5:14AM thanks for explaining to the 4:55AM brainwashed zombie. Do you get it now 4:55AM? Or is that too complex for your tiny brain? Need someone to draw you a picture?
DeleteConsumers generate wealth, not the Mitt Romney's of the world who hide their money where it does little of consequence.
DeleteCrap. Are you saying employed people with good jobs do not add to the overall health and wealth of this country? Basically you have decided there is something inherently wrong with working for the government. You know--- like a postman or an office worker. These "handouts" are safety nets that taxpayers have paid for because how you treat your poor, sick and old is a measure of what kind of society you have created.
DeleteThe modern day GOP will vilify anything that isn't for rich, old white men.
And your supposed law of economics hasn't seemed to improve our fiscal position so far. Now tell me how the Bush tax cuts have helped anyone but millionaires and billionaires? CEOs get hundreds of millions of dollars and put the money in offshore accounts. You know--like Mitt. Helpful, isn't it?
History has already PROVED that any country that has a weak or non-existant middle-class will collapse or degenerate into a dictatorship!
DeleteProsperity comes from the middle class. Any idiot who can't see that is either too stupid to live - or rich and greedy.
Look at the current LIBOR problem. I am going to laugh my ass off when these fools are truly exposed and slammed with the kind of regulations they need. Unfortunately, it will have to be the EU which will do it because the power here is currently the rich.
Don't get me wrong. I would LOVE to have NO regulations on business, provided you can do one thing. Just ONE THING! PROVE to me there are NO dishonest people running the businesses. And I mean DISHONEST in the way a dictionary defines it, not as business presently defines it!
The rich are not job creators and anyone who thinks so is a misguided uninformed fool. The middle and working class are the REAL job creators.
ReplyDeleteBeautifully stated! And of course it's true, as anyone who has studied econ knows, or anyone who has looked at actual data/events of the past 50 yrs.
ReplyDeleteBut I don't understand: in another video linked at the end, it says this talk was rejected by TED. And yet it looks like it was presented there. Is it true that the TED folks didn't like it? If yes, it sure puts a very weird spin on TED: that TED panders to the 1%.
TED also pulled the talk given by Melinda Gates on contraception.
DeleteIt was suggested that TED doesn't want to offend the Republicans because it costs a couple of thousand dollars to attend a TED Talk :)
Methinks that Hanauer made SURE his video was leaked.
Some good points in the video, but he is partly wrong.
ReplyDeleteYes, consumers demand fuel the growth of business leading to job creating, but who created those companies? Entrepreneurs! And who funded those entrepreneurs? Rich people mostly.
It is a non-siquiture to say that middle class is more of a job creator than rich people. Entrepreneurs create jobs, consumers maintains them. Without the good ideas and drive of entrepreneurs there would be no products to sell and no companies to create and no job creations.
Once the companies are established, their market share established, the vision changes and the argument evolve. But at the core, many (not all) rich people do deserve credit for job creation. Richard Branson for example is a phenomenal success. Others, such as Romney, have a more mitigated result.
Nick Hanaeur's argument is mostly about class warfare and it is not very well made.
Didn't you hear him say exactly that about entrepreneurs? But ... most start-ups fail! And even when they don't, the "regular" demand-side economics kicks in quickly. And ... do you really think that tax cuts is what drives those few successful entrepreneurs. I think it's your argument that is not very well made.
DeleteHis argument is extremely well made.
DeleteYours, however, is asinine, right down to the inane meme "class warfare", which is overused by unimaginative parrots such as yourself. Plus he, unlike you, actually is a wealthy entrepreneur and knows whereof he speaks. You can only parrot Republican memes.
BTW, you misspelled non sequitur and you should probably should have just used the word fallacy instead. So your attempt to appear educated failed most probably because you are an unimaginative parrot.
Isn't it funny how the phrase" class warfare", which is and has been waged on the poor and disenfranchised forever, has been co-opted to make the wealthy look like they are being attacked? Oh my, how will they ever survive?
Eduardo, I have to agree with you - TO A VERY LIMITED EXTENT!
DeletePerhaps you missed the point that is stated at the top of the page, above the film post. It says "the TOP 1%"! The vast majority of the investing people of whom you speak do NOT fall into that category!
Personally, I would love to see a quid pro quo system: The more someone invests in business and creating jobs the lower their tax rate. In other words, if you don't invest HERE, but instead send your money overseas to OTHER countries then your tax rate should be back to the 60's!
Don't just let them SAY they create jobs, FORCE them to or have them pay higher taxes! And yes, I have no problem with PROVABLE losses being deductible!
BTY, I am not a Republican and would a liberal in the US, English isn't my first language hence the spelling issues.
DeleteNick may be a successful entrepreneur but that does not make his argument right. Most of his argument is fine, but not complete. I simply pointed to the missing part that limit the scope of his point.
This is a complicated issue and reducing it to simple 'absolute' truths doesn't represent the whole story. There is a bit of truth in most arguments (I said most, not all).
While reducing taxes to rich people doesn't create jobs, increasing taxes too much (there is some margin in the US) create the insentive for wealth transfer abroad.
I would be interested to know if a dollar spend by the private sector is more beneficial to society than a dollar spend by the public sector. Knowing this would help frame the debate on taxes. Idealogical debates are rarely informative. Facts are more interesting.
Olivia - resorting to Ad hominem attacks reduce your arguments to drivels. You don't know me.
From Nick's argument talking about middle class creating jobs he should have mentioned consumers. Wether those are lower, middle or upper class is irrelevant to his argument. Hence by talking about middle class he resort to 'class warfare'.
Leland - You say the 'vast majority of investing people do not fall into that category', maybe, but I haven't seen the numbers so I can't comment on ratio, but it seems like a personal assumption.
I do agree with you about increasing incentive for local investments.
Eduardo... You don't need to be a Republican to talk like one.
Delete"Non sequitur" is Latin just like "ad hominem".
Here is a great article explaining the use of the term "class warfare" as a "code word" in American politics. http://bobmaconbusiness.com/?p=2621
Nick Hanauer is making a very good political response to a Republican political myth. He may not be completely correct in your view but his words are very important and must be heard.
You can argue the fine points if you want but you will be ignored. There is too much emotion involved for logic to prevail. You are right, this is a complicated issue and logic has no home here. Politics is not logical.
This is REALLY old news.
ReplyDeleteHeh, not if you're a card-carrying Republican.
DeleteBush tax it's have been in place for 8 years. Where are the jobs, job creators?
ReplyDeleteThe rich do not create jobs. DEMAND for goods and services creates jobs. In a recession, DEMAND drops and middle- and lower-class jobs disappear. As jobs disappear, people can’t afford goods and services, so DEMAND drops even further. As DEMAND drops, the rich lay off more workers. As more workers are fired, DEMAND drops yet again. And again. And again.
ReplyDeleteWhere in this cycle does lowering taxes on the rich even further help create jobs? It doesn’t! If lowering taxes created jobs, the Bush tax cuts of 2001/2003 would have us up to our asses in jobs already. The rich are NOT job creators. The only real job creators are you and me.
Big fan of the TED series, and the way Nick lays out his thought process, and I agree with him. There's a huge gap between job and wealth creation, and "trickle down" economics just doesn't cut it. Compare and contrast the GWBush years and the Clinton years, which one created more jobs? Left our Government with a surplus?
ReplyDeleteLoved your last paragraph, So Very True!